Discussion about 2022-23 UEFA Champions League Group Stage Matchday 2, Wednesday games.
14 September 2022
18:45 CET - Milan (Stadio Giuseppe Meazza)
AC Milan (ITA) - Dinamo Zagreb (CRO) | Group EReferee: Jesus Gil Manzano (ESP)
Assistant Referee 1: Diego Barbero Sevilla (ESP)
Assistant Referee 2: Angelo Nevado Rodriguez (ESP)
Fourth Official: Ricardo De Burgos Bengoechea (ESP)
Video Assistant Referee: Juan Martinez Munuera (ESP)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Pol van Boekel (NED)
UEFA Referee Observer: Markus Strömbergsson (SWE)
UEFA Delegate: Kuanysh Kanapyanov (KAZ)
18:45 CET - Warsaw (Municipal Stadium of Legia Warszawa)
Shakhtar Donetsk (UKR) - Celtic (SCO) | Group FReferee: Glenn Nyberg (SWE)
Assistant Referee 1: Mahbod Beigi (SWE)
Assistant Referee 2: Andreas Soderkvist (SWE)
Fourth Official: Mohammed Al-Hakim (SWE)
Video Assistant Referee: Dennis Higler (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Rob Dieperink (NED)
UEFA Referee Observer: Vladimir Sajn (SVN)
UEFA Delegate: Emmanuelle Puttaert (BEL)
Rangers (SCO) - SSC Napoli (ITA) | Group A
Referee: Antonio Mateu Lahoz (ESP)
Assistant Referee 1: Pau Cebrián (ESP)
Assistant Referee 2: Roberto del Palomar (ESP)
Fourth Official: José Luis Munuera (ESP)
Video Assistant Referee: Marco Fritz (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee:
UEFA Referee Observer: Cyril Zimmermann (SUI)
UEFA Delegate: Ronald Zimmermann (GER)
21:00 CET - London (Stamford Bridge)
Chelsea (ENG) - FC Salzburg (AUT) | Group EReferee: Ivan Kruzliak (SVK)
Assistant Referee 1: Branislav Hancko (SVK)
Assistant Referee 2: Jan Pozor (SVK)
Fourth Official: Peter Kralovic (SVK)
Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Luis Godinho (POR)
UEFA Referee Observer: Stéphane Lannoy (FRA)
UEFA Delegate: Karl Espen Eriksen (NOR)
21:00 CET - Madrid (Estadio Santiago Bernabéu)
Real Madrid (ESP) - Leipzig (GER) | Group FReferee: Maurizio Mariani (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Daniele Bindoni (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Stefano Alassio (ITA)
Fourth Official: Rosario Abisso (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Marco Guida (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Björn Kuipers (NED)
UEFA Delegate: Metin Kazancioglu (TUR)
21:00 CET - Manchester (City of Manchester Stadium)
Manchester City (ENG) - Borussia Dortmund (GER) | Group GReferee: Daniele Orsato (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Ciro Carbone (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Alessandro Giallatini (ITA)
Fourth Official: Luca Massimi (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Marco Di Bello (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Paolo Valeri (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Andreas Schluchter (SUI)
UEFA Delegate: István Huszár (HUN)
21:00 CET - Copenhagen (Parken)
FC Copenhagen (DEN) - Sevilla (ESP) | Group GReferee: Irfan Peljto (BIH)
Assistant Referee 1: Senad Ibrisimbegović (BIH)
Assistant Referee 2: Davor Beljo (BIH)
Fourth Official: Luka Bilbija (BIH)
Video Assistant Referee: Stuart Attwell (ENG)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Christopher Kavanagh (ENG)
UEFA Referee Observer: Martin Ingvarsson (SWE)
UEFA Delegate: David McDowell (SVN)
21:00 CET - Turin (Juventus Stadium)
Juventus (ITA) - Benfica (POR) | Group HReferee: Felix Zwayer (GER)
Assistant Referee 1: Stefan Lupp (GER)
Assistant Referee 2: Marco Achmüller (GER)
Fourth Official: Sven Jablonski (GER)
Video Assistant Referee: Bastian Dankert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee:
UEFA Referee Observer: Stefan Meßner (AUT)
UEFA Delegate: Per Svärd (SWE)
21:00 CET - Haifa (Sammy Ofer Stadium)
Maccabi Haifa (ISR) - Paris Saint Germain (FRA) | Group HReferee: Daniel Siebert (GER)
Assistant Referee 1: Jan Seidel (GER)
Assistant Referee 2: Rafael Foltyn (GER)
Fourth Official: Daniel Schlager (GER)
Video Assistant Referee: Christian Dingert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Harm Osmers (GER)
UEFA Referee Observer: Vladimir Medved (SVK)
UEFA Delegate: Michael O'Brien (ENG)
Assistant Referee 1: Jan Seidel (GER)
Assistant Referee 2: Rafael Foltyn (GER)
Fourth Official: Daniel Schlager (GER)
Video Assistant Referee: Christian Dingert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Harm Osmers (GER)
UEFA Referee Observer: Vladimir Medved (SVK)
UEFA Delegate: Michael O'Brien (ENG)
Shaky start for Manzano. Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI want to see the clip again of possible penalty to Shakhtar, looked a bit clumsy but confidently waved away by Nyberg
ReplyDeleteAgree
Delete18’ incident (19’ replays), by the letter of the book…
DeleteAnonymous - it seems you confused the phrases "by the letter of the law" and "by the book" :D. Nyberg was correct to play on IMO, you can see attacker put his leg across (just inside the penalty), it wasn't an authentic foul.
DeleteInteresting penalty decision by Manzano. I think it would have been supported by VAR either way
ReplyDeleteMore play on, watching the criteria from the beginning, but not a clear mistake
DeleteDecent half from Nyberg but for me he’s blown the whistle far too much and looked like a clumsy challenge by Celtic player in the area but nothing given - although could be wrong only seen it twice
ReplyDeleteVery soft, I am against such penalties but yeah VAR couldn't overrule it
ReplyDeleteAlso, it looked he vas pretty far from the incident, i didn't even see him in the shot when he blew for penalty. If Barcelona Bayern yesterday wasn't a pen I don't think this should be either
DeleteNot a penalty for me, it’s really frustrating when similar or more contact go unpunished and this is given
DeleteThe penalty by Gil Manzano, a supportable call, but he could have played on. He whistled being far away, surely he had the perception of something bigger.
ReplyDeletehttps://streamff.com/v/11c46b
I'm probably in the minority again, but a clear penalty for me (speaking as a Croatian, by the way). The defender tried to intercept the ball and failed, he kicked the attacker from behind. Although it's a minor kick, it's still a kick, which put the attacker off balance. Sorry, but clear penalty IMO.
DeleteOverall, good performance by Gil Manzano so far.
Defensive freekick should be given IMO :).
DeleteI see your point here and think I understood it correctly. However, watching the replays again, I just cannot see the clear intention to win a penalty, just to "shield" the ball, which I think he has a right to. Maybe I'm wrong, let the higher authorities decide.
DeleteLet me just say that this is really the true beauty of this blog, seeing different opinions and trying to analyze and understand them, as well as explain your own without blindly following it regardless of others. It is one of the most valuable learning tools I had.
Apart from that, very decent and confident Gil Manzano, with his lenient authority style, tolerating some small dissent and trying to warn players before booking, also keen to explain his decisions to "sell" them better.
ReplyDeleteHe missed an obvious foul by Ademi at the start of the game which should have been a YC but apart from that and the unfortunate penalty for dinamo, very solid
DeleteAs Chefren mentioned yesterday in SPA/DOGSO situation, referees of Second and First category preferred to go with "brave" decision RC - DOGSO during Qual.R
ReplyDeleteWe saw in GS than elite preferences for those situation is YC - SPA and if it's clear and obvious mistakes VAR will intervene.
Interesting is even in YL referees prefer RC (i posted some clips from md1 in YL post) and this trend of RC for DOGSO continues today in Juventus U19 vs Benfica U19 Referee:
Kaspar Sjöberg
https://streamable.com/hpx5ls
One must draw conclusion that in certain games it is definitely easier to show red cards... and this is another example of that.
DeleteThis seems like simply the wrong call, the ball is bouncing difficultly and there are two defenders right there to challenge for it.
Deletenever DOGSO, crucial mistake, 7.9 should be given
Deletecrucial mistake? Who is in the goal?? Nobody! Empty goal!!
DeleteBrave decision by Manzano to show IFK for diving but I don't think Orsic is the type of player who has a tendency to dive. Still, he didn't know that beforehand. I would like to see play on
ReplyDeleteAgain, for me a supportable decision (VAR wouldn't intervene in case of penalty to be whistled inside the box), but maybe better decision was play on, not a 100% clear simulation.
DeleteAgree with Chefren, not a foul, but not a clear simulation either. Play on would have been a better decision.
DeleteDon't know whats happening to the refs communication at Chelsea had to go over and communicate to tbe VAR folks through a headset near the monitor
ReplyDeleteVery intense game in Glasgow so far. Lahoz with 2 correct ycs for reckless tackle on the gk and then for dissent
ReplyDeleteCorrect penalty by Zwayer (given after OFR) + YC for reckless stamp
ReplyDeleteAgreed but AR1 Lupp should have detected it in real speed. It was a clear stamp. Hot atmosphere also after the penalty, Zwayer issued some YCs in the mass confrontation.
DeletePenalty area incident from Nyberg's game:
ReplyDeletehttps://dubz.co/v/2qbh5h
Not a clear and obvious mistake, you can back referee for playing on, correct by VAR to support if referee is convinced.
DeleteIn case of missed incident, maybe it could be different.
I disagree here Chefren. Yes is not a missed incident but IMO we have clear and obvious mistake. What is the reason of play on? Is enough to play on because defender was unlucky and didn't want to make the offense? What i see here is a clear foul from behind with intensity at supporting leg of attacker.
DeleteThe same story as with Makkelie last night. At least in Poland it's 100% penalty and VAR intervention. I think in England and Germany (and Netherlands?) not so much (Mikael even stated that play-on is correct) because of attacker's leg move. Still, I think that 90% non-refereeing people expect a penalty here (and yesterday in Munich).
DeleteIt would be a very soft one
DeleteTo be honest, I really don't see the comparison with Munich.
DeleteNyberg incident is a careless, clumsy movement. Most likely too soft in the eyes of RR.
The incident in Munich is a smart(!) attacker that tries to win a penalty, by sticking his leg behind the standing leg of defender, and a ref team+VMO officials that see right through it.
Clear stamp on the foot in Torino. Lets hope we don't read comments. It's not enough, attacker put his leg there etc
ReplyDeleteClear foul. Attacker was just quicker than the defender, who trod on him. Mandatory penalty/intervention.
DeleteFully agree. Clear penalty, YC for reckless stamp, mandatory VAR intervention (well seen by Dankert).
Delete@Anthony You could also just accept that there are people with different views than you, instead of preliminary expressing your hope that other opinions will not be posted.
DeleteHaving said that, yes, this ís a clear penalty in my view as well.
@unknown i always respect others opinions even when I disagree. We discussed a lot here in MD1 about stamping that's why my words where ironic but not disrespectful to others
DeleteI agree you were not disrespectful, but the irony is not the utter example of accepting other views as well I think. But OK, let me be not too oversensitive on this one :)
DeleteClear penalty in Turino.
ReplyDeleteBut what about the penalty shot itself? Is that one correct. He stops during the shot. German commentator also doubts whether this one was correctly shot
Late half claims for PK in London but arm by the side couldn’t do anything about it, correct by Kruzliak
ReplyDeletehttps://streamable.com/4hu4ul
DeletePAI from Real Madrid - RB Leipzig, Mariani played-on, VAR supported:
ReplyDeletehttps://streamable.com/4yvg4f
Penalty is not mandatory, I actually prefer play on here. Correct to support Mariani.
DeleteDefender is lucky he managed to play the ball with his leg here, otherwise it would have been a penalty for charging.
DeleteAgree with play on, for Italian standards even without playing ball, this would be seen as very soft penalty, that's why Oliver call in Real - Juventus was perceived as scandal, not so much common here to whistle such kind of fouls.
DeleteHe got the player before the ball. Clear penalty, nothing to discuss. The oliver penalty was just as clear and the same. Player before the ball.
DeleteLink not working.
Deletedo we have a video of the penalty in Turin?
ReplyDeletehttps://streamff.com/v/DpvQez
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletemany many thanks to both of you.
DeleteInteresting situation. It seems like Zwayer could see anything at all. Lupp could have helped anyway.
Correct OFR.
feinting in the run-up is permitted
ReplyDeleteKey moment in Glasgow, penalty and (second) YC for DOGSO by Mateu, should be rewatched.
ReplyDeleteIMO correct decision
DeleteIMO correct decision, clumsy tripping from the defender.
DeleteClear SYC as well.
How he decided for penalty was very particular: elaborating the incident until the last possible second, it looked at first glance that he hadn't whistled.
DeleteIMO correct penalty I personally think the SYC is a bit harsh but perhaps the right call, definitely a penalty
ReplyDeleteNow irregular goal because player entered the area before the shot.
ReplyDeletepenalty and encroachment
Deletehttps://streamable.com/c6urpb
Fully correct penalty, clear tripping from behind.
DeleteGood job by the VAR, I'm really glad they didn't miss this.
Encroachment by both attacker and at least a defender, penalty to be retaken.
ReplyDeleteCorrect VAR intervention. Is it too much to say that Mateu seemed a bit calmer when he was waiting for the VAR decision?
DeleteAnother penalty by Mateu Lahoz, clear handball and YC for blocking shot on goal. Very difficult game, very good performance so far.
ReplyDeleteSecond penalty given by Lahoz, correct: clear handball (unless you are Kavanagh).
ReplyDeleteWhy mention him
DeleteUnless you can back comments with information.s
Because of the serious mistake made just two days ago in Leverkusen-Atletico, with a clear handball not punished.
DeleteLahoz having a great game
ReplyDeleteMateu's personality skills and mental strength(!!) are just formidable. How brilliantly he lead the players through all these sequences, always match control assured, just superb. Chapeau.
ReplyDelete(though: missed SYC for LoR holding?)
Maybe we can add that two players from Rangers were down after a collision and he hadn't stopped the play, in this context, after the lost ball by Rangers, he should have issued a card...
DeleteAbout the incident itself, to me basically UEFA wants to see always cards in such situations, but one can say that in this case maybe "a bit" in terms of evidence was missing. Difficult to assess as black or white for me.
Yes it was a poor (and extremely unwise!) advantage. Much of the 'general refereeing textbook' can go out of the window in top level nowadays, but this was too exaggerated, considering a) extremely edgy players at this moment of the match and b) collision caused as you stated. I actually think it was a *very good* non-SYC on this occasion, which showed high level 'football understanding'.
DeleteHeated in Glasgow but Morelos should’ve been sent off for a SYC for pull of the shirt
ReplyDeleteNow a possible second YC, with a holding close to sideline. Short holding but definitely a clear one. Mateu forgave the player, nobody could have questioned the card. Maybe the fact that it wasn't so blatant...
ReplyDeleteI have to say tho Lahoz has handled this game to perfection, can anyone comment of performance from Siebert and Mariani?
ReplyDeleteDid he handle the game to perfection?
DeleteThat is your opinion others have a different opinion.—- ma
second PK from Lahoz
ReplyDeletehttps://streamable.com/9sn108
Very good decision, elbow clearly out from the body, enlarging the body surface.
DeleteHow has Kruzliak been
ReplyDeleteGood match, full control. He missed only 1 YC in an easy game.
DeleteThe career of Mateu Lahoz is full of particular incidents and crazy stories, but when he is on his best days... well, definitely among the top UEFA referees ever. You will see nobody like him in future.
ReplyDeleteAnd his mark will still be 7,9 at the end! :D
Deletejust missed the incident, clip?
DeleteIt should be 7.8 maximum (wrong PK and missed blatant 2YC)
DeleteLight hearted encounter after the match between Pep and Orsato
ReplyDeleteI saw that too but I did not understand why there were complaints. Orsato also seemed surprised.
DeleteBtw, am I the only one thinking that Orsato worked on his fitness? From what I have seen, he was running more smoothly and looked more agile.
They probably complained about a potential foul on Foden not given, just before the foul by him for which he received a YC. Could have been given, but it wasn't a must IMO, I agree with play on. And then a somewhat comical scene with Guardiola, like seeing an old school cop trying not to fine an offender, but finally giving in, and with pleasure.
DeleteYes, he does seem more agile. But let me say that Orsato is the best example of an "SDI engine" succeeding on the highest level of sport. And I'm not saying this in a negative way, it's just amusing to watch. I'm gonna miss him when he retires.
By watching Orsato and his phisical condition IMO he’s serious candidate to final WC more than others referees uefa
DeleteVery strange end in Turin, Zwayer whistled before additional time has expired. Then, he immediately received information via headset and restarted the match. 20 seconds after that, he blew the final whistle.
ReplyDeleteNo, the whistle was in the public
DeleteThis was my first impression too, but his gestures were confusing. They looked like "sorry, me fault" as he pointed at his headset and explained something to the player.
DeleteWas in the public!!
DeleteI recorded the scene, he didn't point to his headset he pointed to his right ear (he uses the headset on the left).
ReplyDeleteOk, then I was mistaken, sorry. German commentator also thought it was a mistake by Zwayer.
DeleteJust seen the celebration Neymar was booked for, is that really a necessary YC?
ReplyDeleteDidnt watch the match,but from comments I can see that we had another Mateu classic..Gonna miss him when he retires.
ReplyDeleteAlso,I watched some of Siebert's match,very good performance, if someone can just explain to me why is Neymar's goal celebration bookable offence?
Mariani also with his expected lenient performance...
Regarding Mateu´s performance: two penalty correct + one penalty wrong (corrected by VAR) + blatant second yellow card missed. How can we say that the performance was brilliant?. We can love his management, we can love his style... but we can´t say he was brilliant, perfect, or flautless tonight. With a performance like this he will be out of the World Cup inmediately.
ReplyDeleteSo which referee or assistant are flautless.
DeleteAnd to write (with a performance like this he will be out the World Cup inmediately )
In nonsense to write.——A
* flawless ;)
ReplyDeleteVideo of the non penalty in Real Madrid vs Leipzig?
ReplyDeleteEasy game for Peljto.
ReplyDeleteOdd situation in Manchester after the whistle for Orsato. Pep Guardiola booked for complaining after gesturing towards him. Then Pep gave Orsato a hug before continuing to moan.
ReplyDeleteSiebert is being very talked on the Brazilian media (Neymar even created a # on Twitter) because of the yellow card due to his celebration after the goal (something he is doing on all matches).
ReplyDeleteNeymar gave an interview to the Brazil Media. He said that he had spoken with Siebert saying about the yellow card and Siebert answered "sorry, I trust on you. All fine"
DeleteThe same happened around 2 weeks ago in ATM-VIL when De Burgos booked Moreno for the celebration that he used every time he scored a goal (you can see from the highlights), because he celebrated it in front of Atletico fans. Later, it was rescinded though. Maybe because Siebert is unfamiliar with it. Glad that it's settled already
DeleteArbitrator ZWAYER would not have warned Neymar da Silva Santos Júnior for CELEBRACY!! Important facts about GERMANY arbitrators.
DeleteInteresting from Neymar on twitter saying “DANIEL SIEBERT ✋🏽😝🤚🏽” in response to a tweet of his celebration which I personally see nothing wrong with considering he does this often and has rightfully been unpunished
ReplyDeleteTotally supportable decision by Siebert. Mocking the crowd like that is easily unsportsmanlike behaviour. Doing it regularly doesn't aquit Neymar of anything.
Delete+1
DeletePls refree for Madrid derby
ReplyDeleteFull appointment:
DeleteJose Luis Munuera Montero - Iñigo Prieto López De Cerain, Antonio Ramón Martínez Moreno - Manuel Jesus Orellana Cid
[Ignacio Iglesias Villanueva - Santiago Jaime Latre]