Referee appointments for Matchday 4 of 2023-24 UEFA Champions League, second set of games to be played on Wednesday 8 November 2023.
18:45 CET - Naples (Stadio Diego Armando Maradona)
SSC Napoli (ITA) - 1. FC Union Berlin (GER) | Group C
Referee: Danny Makkelie (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Hessel Steegstra (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Jan De Vries (NED)
Fourth Official: Allard Lindhout (NED)
Video Assistant Referee: Clay Ruperti (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Ivan Bebek (CRO)
UEFA Referee Observer: Boško Jovanetić (SRB)
UEFA Delegate: Fernand Meese (BEL)
18:45 CET - Donostia-San Sebastián (Estadio Municipal de Anoeta)
Real Sociedad de Fútbol (ESP) - SL Benfica (POR) | Group D
Referee: Anthony Taylor (ENG)
Assistant Referee 1: Gary Beswick (ENG)
Assistant Referee 2: Adam Nunn (ENG)
Fourth Official: Robert Jones (ENG)
Video Assistant Referee: Stuart Attwell (ENG)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Willy Delajod (FRA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Sokol Jareci (ALB)
UEFA Delegate: Johny Vanspauwen (BEL)
21:00 CET - Munich (Fußball Arena München)
FC Bayern München (GER) - Galatasaray SK (TUR) | Group A
Referee: António Emanuel Carvalho Nobre (POR)
Assistant Referee 1: Pedro Nuno de Sá Martins (POR)
Assistant Referee 2: Paulo Ricardo Duarte Brás (POR)
Fourth Official: André Filipe Domingues da Silva Narciso (POR)
Video Assistant Referee: Tiago Bruno Lopes Martins (POR)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Juan Martínez Munuera (ESP)
UEFA Referee Observer: Vladimir Šajn (SVN)
UEFA Delegate: Gijs De Jong (NED)
21:00 CET - København (Parken)
FC København (DEN) - Manchester United FC (ENG) | Group A
Referee: Donatas Rumšas (LTU)
Assistant Referee 1: Aleksandras Radiušas (LTU)
Assistant Referee 2: Dovydas Sužiedelis (LTU)
Fourth Official: Robertas Valikonis (LTU)
Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Carlos Del Cerro Grande (ESP)
UEFA Referee Observer: Darko Čeferin (SVN)
UEFA Delegate: Eduard Dervishaj Nelaj (ESP)
21:00 CET - London (Arsenal Stadium)
Arsenal FC (ENG) - Sevilla FC (ESP) | Group B
Referee: István Kovács (ROU)
Assistant Referee 1: Vasile Florin Marinescu (ROU)
Assistant Referee 2: Mihai Ovidiu Artene (ROU)
Fourth Official: Horațiu Mircea Feșnic (ROU)
Video Assistant Referee: Bastian Dankert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Benoît Millot (FRA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Costas Kapitanis (CYP)
UEFA Delegate: Romano Clavadetscher (SUI)
21:00 CET - Eindhoven (PSV Stadion)
PSV (NED) - RC Lens (FRA) | Group B
Referee: Daniel Siebert (GER)
Assistant Referee 1: Jan Seidel (GER)
Assistant Referee 2: Lasse Koslowski (GER)
Fourth Official: Daniel Schlager (GER)
Video Assistant Referee: Christian Dingert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Paolo Valeri (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Nuno Parreira De Castro (POR)
UEFA Delegate: Filip Popovski (MKD)
21:00 CET - Madrid (Eatadio Santiago Bernabéu)
Real Madrid CF (ESP) - SC Braga (POR) | Group C
Referee: Halil Umut Meler (TUR)
Assistant Referee 1: Mustafa Emre Eyisoy (TUR)
Assistant Referee 2: Kerem Ersoy (TUR)
Fourth Official: Arda Kardeşler (TUR)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Alper Ulusoy (TUR)
UEFA Referee Observer: Björn Kuipers (NED)
UEFA Delegate: Tarik Shamel (ENG)
21:00 CET - Salzburg (Stadion Salzburg)
RB Salzburg (AUT) - FC Internazionale (ITA) | Group D
Referee: Serdar Gözübüyük (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Erwin E. J. Zeinstra (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Johan Balder (NED)
Fourth Official: Joey Kooij (NED)
Video Assistant Referee: Dennis Johan Higler (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Marco Fritz (GER)
UEFA Referee Observer: Elmir Pilav (BIH)
UEFA Delegate: Mike Foster (ENG)
Cold turkey for us continues ;)
ReplyDeleteI wrote to UEFA, but difficult to get answers.
ReplyDeleteDid they respond? I'd be really surprised. I guess that you get the appointments on sources, which is already remarkable. Thanks for the info.
DeleteHalil Umut Meler has been confirmed by TFF for Real Madrid-Braga.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.tff.org/default.aspx?pageID=248&ftxtID=42611
Two rookie referees are going to the Group A matches. Interesting.
ReplyDeleteExtremely interesting set of assignments.
ReplyDeleteLet's start from Carvalho Nobre debut in Munchen: very particular choice, one couldn't have expected that. But yes... as somebody wrote in the other discussion, seems a quite worrying decision for Pinheiro, who at moment should have the focus by committee as newbie in Champions League. We can draw the conclusion that he didn't convince committee, indeed it was a surprise to see him remaining in Category 1. It seems as now they have a new try with Carvalho Nobre for something more. Very problematic management of Portuguese referee, if we include Verissimo who was under the focus by committee some years ago and then left as well.
In Copenhagen an extremely interesting game for Rumsas as well, committee has covered this group with a debut and a Category 1.
The Lithuanian is now getting the development that he could even reached already in past, but you remember, there was a period without assignments for him. Good, we wait him at very top level, let's wish the best for this game.
Siebert back in Champions League is unexpected for me, I would have predicted him at maximum in Conference, after the management by committee, and I would say that this is a strange appointment. We must look back at previous assignments for Lens and maybe we find the solution, as already pointed out in the analysis of previous matchdays, it seems that committee can go fully flexible with French teams. They mostly got Category 1. So, according to them, suitable game for Siebert comeback. Hopefully he will perform well.
Umut Meler under the eyes of Kuipers has a big exam, but again, let me say, such games in my opinion are not the best option, as it is expected to be a quite easy win by Spanish side. Nevertheless, answering also to some questions on the blog about the current reputation of the Turkish, as we can see from this appointment, indeed committee wants to be convincd by him, and this will be the chance. I woudln't dare to think that this is an observation for EURO 2024, because would be too early for the referee, but I can be wrong... based also in the appointments should be for testing him for something more.
Kovács with a standard assignment in London, Taylor with the only (100% only) possible game for him on this MD in Champions League, so this means that, despite of the mistakes, committee still has big trust in him and we can wish that he will recover soon from the poor form. Last but not least, Makkelie in Naples with another regular assignment in Champions League with an Italian team at home: the game can put home side in thee best position, given that the contender, Braga at moment, will have a challenging duty in Madrid.
Sorry, not done on purpose of course, but I forgot Gozubuyuk, standard assignment for him in Salzburg. To me, it is the last chance for Austrian side, otherwise Spanish and Italian team will easily qualify to KO stage.
DeleteNobre's debut is indeed strange after only 1 EL game in his career and only 1 ECL game in each of the two previous seasons.
DeletePinheiro got a good EL game on MD3 after CL on MD1 and is now at the U17WC, so IMO not too bad for him.
Rumsas indeed with a quite good game, I expected an Elite referee there.
Siebert is rather unexpected, in a low profile, but important game.
Madrid-Braga is hard to evaluate. Somehow easy on paper, but still Spanish vs Portuguese team - and also a big name there on MD3. Furthermore the observer obviously makes it important for Meler.
Not a good game for Makkelie IMO, he could have been switched with Rumsas e.g.
In group D, I would say quite a good and important game for Gözübüyük, exactly because it is the last chance for the Austrians. Clearly better than Taylor's game based on the standings, so I would have preferred them the other way around. But apparently, Taylor is indeed kept away from Italian teams (IMO a clear overreaction...).
I forgot about the Under 17 World Cup for Pinheiro, this can be reason for Nobre debut (otherwise game for Pinheiro). But still the latter without a real progress at moment before a possible promotion to Elite.
DeleteDear Chefren, Pinheiro is not eligible for the next few weeks, as he will be refereeing at FIFA U17 World Cup, in Indonesia.
DeleteGreetings!
@ Chefren
DeleteIs Gözöbüyük still accurate in Salzburg? I read in today's edition of the Salzburg newspaper that Elmir Pilav (BIH) should be the ref.
Unfortunately UEFA.com does not list the refs ten hours befor kick off ...
DFB.de has published
ReplyDeletePSV Eindhoven - RC Lens
Referee : Daniel Siebert (GER)
AR1 : Jan Seidel (GER)
AR2 : Lasse Koslowski (GER)
VOF : Daniel Schlager (GER)
VAR : Christian DIngert (GER)
AVAR : Paolo Valeri (ITA)
Hopefully for tomorrow's appointments the problem will be solved because, definitely, this way of discovering them is not fun :)
ReplyDeleteIt is strange in my opinion, I'm not expert but still, that a so big organization like UEFA needs so long time to solve a technical problem on their site. If this will last tomorrow, definitely impossible to write down all Europa and Conference League assignments... let's hope they will fix the problem soon.
DeleteVery curious about Taylor performance after another disgraceful penalty in Championship…
ReplyDeleteWHAT ON EARTH!
ReplyDeleteWhat is wrong with the premier league
You can kick players, smash them in the face and jump in two footed and not get anything.
VAR is simply a joke.
Yet Curtis Jones was sent packing for standing on the ball
Yeah, I really wondered. VAR probably too busy checking the handball and missed the kick
DeleteWhat is going on
Delete1. Tight VAR decision to stick with offside on field
2. Missed a clear Red for Udogie
3. Missed a clear kick out by Romero
4. Rightly disallowed a Sterling Goal for handball
5. Jackson goal ruled out for offside interference (rightly called on field)
6. VAR then rightly calls Oliver for a clear red card and penalty
But hey, he tried to break another leg, at least this was seen
DeleteWhat a 1st half for Oliver,one of the most challenging 1st halves I've ever watched.
DeleteOther 1st half that had this dirt , intensity and was challenging was 16 Copa America Final.
Extremely difficult 1st half for Oliver in Tottenham - Chelsea, I can't recall more difficult half for refereeing in past years. Numerous VARs checks, and I wouldn't be so critical as an author above. My only disagreement with VAR team is that Romero could have been sent off earlier. But other dicisions are OK for me, btw brilliant AR call for offside before penalty.
ReplyDeleteThis, only thing I disagree with was Romero should have been off earlier for kick out, terrible behaviour from both sets of players, I think Oliver has done well in such a challenging match
DeleteClearly correct second yellow now for Udogie who was very lucky not to go in the first half. Ridiculous challenge
DeleteThe AR's have been excellent so far in this match
DeleteKovacs' VARs are Dankert and Millot.
ReplyDeleteInteresting situation for De Burgos Bengoetxea in Getafe - Cádiz. Djené (already on a YC) elbows a Cádiz player off the ball before a corner kick is taken, debatable if YC or RC.
ReplyDeleteVAR Hernández Maeso sends De Burgos to the monitor for a possible RC for VC (it couldn't be for a PK because the ball was still out of play), who decides to give a (2)YC, many people online are confused and angry, arguing that De Burgos & Maeso violated VAR protocol (or at the very least, made up a trick/loophole to give a 2YC to the Getafe defender), but it's technically not a violation to give a YC in case of an OFR for a RC if the referee thinks it's not enough,
Yeah, that is an interesting topic. I saw it in Italy few years ago, it is something that referees can use as a loophole, but imo if it is an "orange" card foul and a player has a YC already, it should be ok to call for the OFR. And also a 2nd YC or a RC, it is rarely debated
DeleteThought the rules were you couldn't get a 2YC it had to be straight RC only. But can give single YC on a RC Review
DeleteDavid if you reflect on what you wrongly thought, why rules should have allowed a single YC but not a second one, leading to RC? It would have been a meaningless thing, referees once at monitor can decide just what he wants based on the assessment.
DeleteBoth AR'S, Stuart Burt and Dan Cook are having brilliant performances so far. 5 or 6 excellent decisions tonight, all close, all correct
ReplyDeleteSSC Napoli (ITA) - 1. FC Union Berlin (GER)
ReplyDeleteVideo Assistant Referee: Clay Ruperti (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Ivan Bebek (CRO)
Source: https://www.knvb.nl/nieuws/scheidsrechters/aanstellingen/68347/serdar-g%C3%B6z%C3%BCb%C3%BCy%C3%BCk-fluit-rb-salzburg-internazionale
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DeleteMost likely atwell and kavanagh as Taylor’s var and avar?has it been released yet?
ReplyDeleteMaybe not Kavanagh
DeleteWhere is Jovanović?
ReplyDeleteWon't the non-disclosure of referees be intentional? After all, the results are on the UEFA website. And FiFA does not publish the referees even after the match! And FIFA is run by Rosetti's compatriot Collina.
ReplyDelete+1. UEFA (deliberately?) removed all old appointments from the match pages too. It would follow the current trend to keep assignments more secret 🤷♂️.
Delete4 hours from kick off do we really still not have all the details for who will be the VAR on these games?
ReplyDeleteAll appointments finally shown on UEFA website!!!
ReplyDeleteLet's celebrate and hopefully it will not happen again!
DeleteJust few statistical notes on CL appointments;
ReplyDeleteConsidering Play OFF and Group Stage:
Peljto is the most selected with 4 matches (1+3)
Followed by:
Sanchez Martinez, Gil Manzano, Letexier, Turpin, Taylor, Zwayer, Orsato, Massa, Marciniak, Vincic, Kovacs, Kruzliak with 3 appearences (all of them 1+2 expect Kruzliak which officiated only in the GS).
Soares Dias, Oliver, Makkelie, Nyberg, Stieler, Guzubuyuk, Petrescu, Meler, Rumsas and Guida with 2 presences. I would say positive for Rumsas, Guida and Petrescu probably not for Oliver and Makkelie.
Worst ranking seems for Jovanovic, Siebert with only one appointment, especially if we consider that 2 years ago Siebert still was the best german referee.
Collum, Grinfeeld and Bastien have one appearance too but we know that they are elite borderline. No appointment for Sidiropolous, Karasev, Koulbakov and of course Hategan and Sharer.
Among first class, I would see positive the single engagement of Krogh, Jorgi, Nobre and Lambrecht, an unexpected debut in CL.
Watching on next promotions at the end of the year, I would have dare on Pinheiro and Mariani but their single appointment seem that they are no more highly consider by committee. A part of Eksas and Obrenovic (also them with one match) I don't see other candidates, neither Kabakov and Frankowski who complete the list of the referees engaged for CL so far. Thanks for your fedback
About the disappointments so far, apart from Siebert, I think that it was a pity to see Jovanović losing important reputation, after having performed very well in his early period as Elite referee. He was in a very good position before the famous game Italy - Engand, then since that day, it started everything bad for him. Wishing a quick recover, but the time seems to be very long for seeing this happen.
DeleteThe other referees with only 1 or 0 games in Champions League are already in a particular condition, as you pointed out and we can't draw significant conclusions.
On the other hand, as I wrote earlier, excellent moment for Peljto, who seems to have developed in an extremely quick way, following his promotion to Elite. I think that the decision by committee to admit him in the top UEFA category, has clearly given him big motivations. Strong and solid on the pitch, not afraid of making mistakes.
About the situation for possible promotions to Elite: I mostly agre with your remarks, but at first I would mention Rumsas, who seems to be in the perfect condition of a Category 1 aspiring to Elite. Enough appearances in Champions League (4 including today assignment), important games (let's see how he will perform today) and a long focus by committee. So on paper a real candidate for the stp. Then the other names on paper would be Pinheiro (but still, quite particular treatment and it seems he didn't convince committee so far), Mariani (similar speech, after an attempt on last season now less focus on him), Eskas (but maybe he should indeed get more before a promotion) and Obrenovic (on the good way, but waiting 6 months or 1 year more wouldn't be a drama for him). I don't see other names apart from these four referees, indeed with Kabakov there was an attempt but I think not enough to add him again on the list of possible Elite, while we can maybe expect further tests for the future. Frakowski even less than the Bulgarian.
Thought on King Makkelie disallowed Napoli Goal?
ReplyDeletehttps://dubz.co/c/ef5bb2
ReplyDeleteTo me, a call that an Italian VAR would have NEVER made.
Not a clear and obvious mistake because not an objective foul, should have been whistled by Makkelie, but called by VAR, I disagree. Never seen a VAR intervention for such kind of foul in 6 or 7 years of VAR in serie A, and it was always reported that this challenge must be assessed by referee.
Yes, but in the end “no goal” is the better decision imo. UBE defender can’t jump, because he is used as a gymnastic apparatus.
DeleteSorry, but what's an "objective foul?"
DeleteHe puts both hands on his opponent and prevents said opponent from jumping at all. The goal is only scored because of this clear foul action. If Makkelie missed this or assessed it correctly, why shouldn't VAR be used to fix this mistake?
I don't understand the philosophy some people have with VAR. We want (or even demand) that VAR intervene for inconsequential handballs. But we want VAR to ignore a blatant foul that causes a goal. It's very weird.
I think the foul is quite clear but, as Chefren, I expected no VAR intervention because pushing, jumping at an opponent and similar offences were always deemed to be at referee's discretion and no VAR stuff. However, I'm happy it has been reviewed as the optimal call was made -> almost everyone was expecting a FK there.
DeleteI'm also happy that LoR holding was booked after playing an advantage in 89'. In previous years we always saw such offences not punished when the advantage was played. Good change of approach, imo.
Overall, good Makkelie but he always miss some charisma and leadership. Always very calm, even phlegmatic, and unsure about big calls. He should quickly work on this aspect, imo.
Very good Makkelie for the rest until the end of the game, I wanted to report that booking after holding as well, great decision, also other circumstances in which he correctly waited for a possible advantage before whistling. Expected management of added time.
DeleteEuro Soccer Referee, the reason for which I said that OFR was not expected is exactly this one, at least here in Italy we never saw a review for that and it was always reported referee should made assessment about intensity in such challenges, that's why I said not "objective" foul, you don't have criteria to say that all people will agree about clear foul. At least according to VAR protocol. So to me, the goal should have been allowed, I' m quite sure it would have been accepted.
I’m with Chefren, in my book no clear and obvious mistake and decision can go both ways. Hands on shoulder, yes. Applying force to prevent defender from jumping? Hardly. Using opponent to jump highe? Definitely not.
DeleteApart from the debates situation full control, faultless disciplinary sanctioning, good performance.
In Napels, minute 95 the German goalkeeper stopped the ball and was hugged by a team player. In the replay you saw the player clearly touched the ball with his hand! Not a natural position.... PK????
ReplyDeleteNO! Imagine the protests
DeleteThe important factor is intention. I strongly doubt that a player would intentionally play the ball with his hands if he hugs the goalkeeper.
DeleteFor the love of the game, you can not expect the referee to whistle a penalty there, not even with VAR. I don’t think either team would want that against them so the best decision for the spirit of the game is to not punish it.
DeleteCorrect early PK + YC by Meler in Madrid for a holding, spot-on.
ReplyDeleteNow a disallowed goal for Real Madrid.
DeleteI must say that Umut Meler in recent times is showing very good stuff in Champions League games.
Now a correctly disallowed goal for Madrid for previous foul.
Delete@Chefran can Umut Meler get a big game in MD 5/6 with such a performance?
DeleteLet's wait for the end of the game, then I will answer ;)
Delete@chefren the game is over
DeleteSevilla lucky not to have had a yellow card for persistent fouling
ReplyDeleteArsenal player was fouled 4 times in 17 minutes.
DeleteOne was borderline a yellow card. Kovacs just talking to everyone all night. Talks to Trossard for compalining after a really poor wrong throw in call from AR1
DeleteI like Meler's style
ReplyDeleteGood double no penalty call for Arsenal
ReplyDeleteSiebert is struggling and if I'm honest I wonder if he has the required level for the CL
ReplyDeletewhat you are saying is way too harsh
DeleteOFR in Copenhagen for SFP. Difficult to see in real time, but correct intervention
ReplyDeleteFor me a harsh call, supportable but doubtful VAR intervention. Hitting point was still borderline YC/RC, force was normal and not excessive.
DeleteClear red card
Deletehttps://streamff.co/v/KR0SosodxR
DeleteThe trend about punishing with severity such challenges continue on this MD4 and finds many VAR agreeing on that.
DeleteI like that and for me that's a good red card decision, but a few time ago these were all borderline RC / YC situations...
I agree with @Ref_1707 here, supportable if given in real time but I would have liked a YC here, not enough force and not high enough in my opinion for a RC, although borderline so it’s still okay but the intervention itself is not correct for me.
DeleteIMO, it has to be a red card. The hitting point is ankle/above the ankle, full studs contact, significant impact on the opponent - endangering his safety!, one can't find an excuse for Rashford's action - most likely he wants to shield the ball but being aware of an opponent he does it in such stupid manner... So, in my opinion, VAR intervention required and therefore correct.
DeleteThe question is : if referee showed YC in this situation, is still intervention or support?
DeleteIMO, still an intervention unless the referee says to VAR something like "studs contact above ankle but no force", then it would be difficult for VAR to jump in.
Delete@MX - would you agree that with that tackle, the red defender endangered safety of the opponent (could have broken his ankle)? From my point of you, if player's safety is endangered, no further analyses is required.
Delete@Chefren - really hope the trend will continue, nobody wants players to be injured.
I understand the arguments, but I see not even a bit intention to injure the opponent or even to risk that and the intensity of the contact is too low for RC.
Delete13 added minutes in Copenhagen
ReplyDeleteExcellent lost time compensation there, indeed (even I - very meticulous in this regard - counted 12 minutes to be added). However, he should've added one further minute for VAR check at the penalty incident but, unfortunately, he chose to stop a promising action of Copenhagen instead. :/
DeleteCertainly a huge struggle for Siebert. His decisions are okay so far, but the match is very tense, the weather doesn't help and acceptance of his decisions is just low. What strikes me as 'bad' is his body language. Too often the 'it has to stop now' sign but without making a moment of it. Siebert is a good decisions maker, but he lacks confidence right now. 6 yellow cards in the first half.
ReplyDeleteWe all know where this lack of selfconfidence comes from. Thx, UEFA.
DeletePSV - Lens is a dirty game, with a lot of provocations, Siebert too long allowed for this behaviours, and now he has a big problems with keeping control..
ReplyDeletePenalty by Rumsas in the 7' minute of added time, clear handball.
ReplyDeleteSorry but this is not a clear handball, MU player challenging for the position, position of the hand is justifiable by the player body movement in this situation. Hand is close to the body. IMO this is not a HB
DeleteDifficult handball situation (as most often...). The hand is widely outstretched but one can easily classify it as natural for a player's action. I think there should be a clear guideline for such situations - either always penalty when hand outstretched like that or coming back to 'intention' and 'time to react' era.
DeleteAgree, the correct definition intention and time to react. Because all football society dont understand such handball offence. Off course referees have all considiration and could support, even VAR have to support in such situation, but still very discutable penalty in such game
DeleteCorrect penalty given by Rumsas
ReplyDeleteIMO correct VAR intervention, even if Rashford has only the intention of 'protection' he stamps of the opponent's ankle with high force, and the ankle bending its a huge red flag.
ReplyDeleteThen a correct PK for handball by Maguire.
IF OFR, agreed this is a RC, but Ref must at least blow the foul and if YC not intervention
DeleteI watched some flashes of the game in Naples today and tbh I was surprised by the low intensity of the teams on the pitch. I guess the biggest challenge for Makkelie was to keep his focus (snoozefest) and it didn’t put him in his strength. The Dutch referee is on his best when teams play with a higher intensity imo. Makkelie has an excellent flow-based approach, great advantages, etc. and knows how to make a game attractive.
ReplyDeleteNow Siebert, obviously has a much more tensed match than Makkelie, high intensity. 6 yellow’s in 8 minutes! Wow
Yeah both correct interventions but Rumsas should have added added even more injury time
ReplyDeleteUsual Siebert game with no control at all
ReplyDeleteAt least 2 minutes more should have been added cause of the penalty in injury time
ReplyDelete60´ missed 2nd YC by Nobre against Bayern player.
ReplyDelete62´ amazing offside goal by AR2, disallowed Galatasaray goal on field.
Excellent offside flag by Duarte Brás, disallowing 0-1 for Galatasaray.
ReplyDelete60' Bayern lucky to have 11 and Davies to not get a 2YC for SPA, but the worse thing is the level of protesting from both sides. Running to the referee, waving imaginery cards, surround and shouting at the officials. This level of dissent really shouldn't be tolerated. More generally, a quite fussy performance from Nobre, likes his whistle
ReplyDeleteGood onside call at Emirates by AR2 for 2-0
ReplyDelete82' Very poor VAR procedure. The referee should not have been told to signal for a goal if something else is being checked in the APP. Looked a mess. Still, 1:0 Bayern which - pending replays - looks right
ReplyDeleteThe referee wanted Bayern to score so much that he awarded the goal without waiting for the VAR review to be completed :). Have you seen any VAR lines on offside position? On what basis was the goal awarded?
DeleteI said that after these appointments, the referees in Group A were rookies. These two referees are currently being discussed. Congratulations UEFA!
Joke of a penalty decision to Man United, his other arm is being pulled by the United attacker, should be free kick the other way
ReplyDeleteAnother penalty for handball by Rumsas, this time after OFR.
ReplyDeletehttps://dubz.co/c/2e3b3b
And the clip about the previous one in first half, directly whistled by Rumsas: https://dubz.co/c/887848
DeleteSecond HB similar as first one, IMO very similar
DeleteClear holding on the defender who concedes the penlaty, better call here is defensive free kick for me
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DeletePK in68' - correct, the open arm is enlarging the body and makes it unnaturally bigger.
DeletePK in 45'+7 - not so good camera angle for the 1st incident (red no.19), but IMO no handball and no PK as the arm was in natural position for the movement defender made + the ball trajectory was unexpected .
The 2nd incident (red no. 5) - the arm was in unnatural position and was making the body bigger, so the correct decision is a PK.
Thoughts on handball on Copenhagen player? very close proximity. Harsh decision imo
ReplyDeleteSo far in this group stage, all VARs have applied the criterion "Open arm - penalty", without looking at the rest, that is exactly how it works in countries like Italy and Spain.
DeleteOne can disagree or not, but to have consistency it is hard to do in different way.
From a more Northern European viewpoint of handball, I think it's very harsh, but in UEFA it's been quite clear that it's mostly position to be considered, I don't really see a big change in the interpretation that I expected ahead of this season
Delete@Elliot Agree, very much doubt this gets whistled in England or Germany for example, and yes for all of UEFA's talk about relaxed handball laws before this season, doesn't seem to be much difference from previous years
DeleteNot the best night for Rumsas, two OFR and doubtfoul HB, many protest, missed mandatory YC
ReplyDeleteHandball penalty by Gozubuyuk in Salzburg: https://streamin.me/v/276a6fe7
ReplyDeleteAt least in this case I think people will agree...
This clear, and absolutly expected, the question about slow reaction from referee, what is a reason?
DeleteVery good Gozubuyuk and his team. Very good Zeinstra
DeleteGreat assist from AR2, bravo!
DeleteCorrect penalty call after intervention from AR1; Gözübüyük had not seen the hands in the forst place..
DeleteHowever - clear missed penalty call in min. 22. and no intervention by VAR either.
Salzburg has bad luck with the refs in this CL campaign after Letexier's (game 3) and Frankowski's (game 2) mistakes.
However - clear missed penalty call in min. 22. and no intervention by VAR either....Agree
DeleteSiebert second YC in Eindhoven against Lens:
ReplyDeletehttps://streamin.me/v/d79ef127
Absolutely correct, well done.
DeleteEpic game in Copenhagen. Surely a very challenging one.
ReplyDeleteWe have two OFRs so far, but I think that both the SFP and the handball penalty were not easy to spot. Surely the Lithuanian has had an important stage on the road of his development.
Every crucial decision difficult to spot, but this is a difference between elite referee and 1st cat., will see what RefCom decided, but IMO too early for Rumsas, he need still to prove
DeleteCorrect decision for no OFR for a third time in Copenghegan
ReplyDeleteAbout this one we all agree, impossible to see handball whistled there.
DeleteRasmus has lost the plot and his VAR's obviously have no EXPERIENCE of football.. Ask any player and they will tell you that Rashford or any other player has the right to place his foot on the ground which he tried to do but his opponent placed his leg under that of the Man U no 10 . What then was he supposed to do with his foot keep it up in the air until he lost his balance. There was no excessive force nor was there any malice in the action of the Man U no 10. VAR is ruining the game that we all loved and unless we get to grips with the interference from a screen in a box in some far away place then we will drive away the people who matter most the fans. The only way to cure this unwelcome interference is for the MAN WITH THE WHISTLE to get the decisions correct on the field of play which is what he gets paid for. The cost of providing match officials has increased out of all proportion but with that has increased the possibility of more controversay that we ever had before. The standard of refereeing has been on a downward trend in Europe for a number of years now and the inexperience of people like this LITHUANIAN does nothing to convince that it will inprove any time soon. A penalty to Man U awarded by the referee after he was directed to the screen my goodness why could he not have awarded it without the HELP of the VAR in a box many miles away. How can the VAR have a 'feel' for the game sitting watching a screen. Let me again emphasise that the match referee who is being well paid for it cannot get it right on the field at the point when an offence takes place then he should make way for someone who can. A game that should have been one to watch was ruined that just about sums up football which is dying because of outside interference.
ReplyDeleteThis is the WC final VAR as well. Really poor. Rumsas I agree has lost the plot. Extremely random foul detection. Fortunately its balanced out and he can't be blamed
Delete@Scotref: First, learn to spell his last name correctly. :)
DeleteBritish people always with a different view to continental Europeans. Of course, nothing personal, but a good example how different 'culture' of refereeing is in Great Britain :)
DeleteIMO, Rumšas was really good today despite two VAR interventions. Finally, all big decisions were optimal from UEFA point of view (not for British people though :)). Missed YC to MU player for provocative goal celebration after the scored penalty.
The shock & disbelief in the reaction to Rashford's RC by the United/British public reminds me of Nani's (correct) RC by Çakir back in 2013.
DeleteSorry, but this is UEFA, and 'continental Europe' doesn't live under 'absolutism of intentionality' to assess incidents.
+1 British people should be more flexible when they interpretate referees decisions in UEFA games. I totally agree with RC there. Good VAR call imo.
DeleteI didn't watch Rumsas's game, only the last 10 minutes thanks to the long added time in the first half that caused a delay. So I can't say whether he was good or bad. But reading the reports, I am sure his mark from the observer will not be great
Well considering in Britain you can jump in two footed at people, and intentionally kick people no where near the ball- the justification being no force, something like this seems no where near a red. It clearly is.
DeleteRumsas now with a ghost free kick on the edge of the box and YC to Maguire for complaining. Really poor performance from him tonight
ReplyDeleteTo answer to a previous question, I think that indeed Umut Meler can get now something important on MD5 or 6, after the performance shown today under the eyes of Kuipers. Two crucial decisions at the beginning correctly taken, then I saw two reasonable no penalty decision, in 7' and 20'. Always making gestures and assessments, not appearing unsure. Very good. The game was easily won by Real Madrid at the end but it wasn't easy as one could think, reading only final score.
ReplyDeleteBtw, 'Umut' is his second/middle name and not part of his surname, he's not Spanish :D
Delete@Chefren,btw we got confirmation,Massa will handle Rome derby.
Delete@Quilava, I didn't know. I thought it was his surname, my fault!
Delete@M yes, as expected!
So after watching yesterday's and tonight's CL matches I come to conclusion that all those new rules and new law's are worth nothing when refs have certain style and don't want to punish proests and mobbing.
ReplyDeleteYesterday we had Manzano's game where Hernandez was literally asked and wanted to be shown RC with all his screaming and protesting.
Tonight,plenty of that was seen in Munich,Salzburg and Eindhoven.
Nobre,Gozubuyuk and Sieber are for sure not the best of the best,but to allow this kind of mobbing was unacceptable and needs to be punished.
+1
DeleteNobre showed very poor management in the second half of the match. He did not give a second yellow card to the Bayern player. There was also a canceled goal, VAR showed very bad management. In fact, VAR was not given a repeat of his position. Nobre is not a Champions League referee...
ReplyDeleteBan still shots of incidents football is played at pace therefore the referee should only be shown an incident at speed at which it has taken place. Ban VAR now.
ReplyDeleteHaving discussed the Marcus Rashford so called foul with a number of refereeing colleagues I am pleased to report that not ONE thought that it was an offence which warranted a dismissal. Contrary to the so called biased thoughts of the British public expressed on this site I can openly say that I have a copmpletely open mind when it comes to UEFA competitions and therefore I will criticise British teams and officials when they deserve to be called out. But similarly I will defend them when they are treated unfairly and that certainly was the case in the match FC København (DEN) - Manchester United FC (ENG) | Group A
DeleteReferee: Donatas Rumšas (LTU)
Assistant Referee 1: Aleksandras Radiušas (LTU)
Assistant Referee 2: Dovydas Sužiedelis (LTU)
Fourth Official: Robertas Valikonis (LTU)
Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Carlos Del Cerro Grande (ESP) -
As i opined yesterday evening we are overkilling the game we once knew and loved by the introduction of VAR who are located miles away in a box with no 'FEEL' for the match. If the match referee cannot correctly call offences committed on the field of play then he should not get several other chaces to view and review what actually took place. I have supported football in many capacites for over 75 years with at least 50% of that time officiating. I recall the advice of my mentor/supervisor telling me that a leopard never changes its spots well the time has come when I have to criticise the legislators who have changed the Universal Laws of Asssociation Football so often that they are now unrecogniseable and certainly not for the improvement of the Game. David Ellery and his team of so called learned colleagues you cannot claim that any changes which you suggested and were accepted by IFAB have done anything that has improved the enjoyment that we once had. We now have games where only 1/2 of the time allocated the ball is actually in play. MY Suggestion is that the game shall be played in 2 periods of 30 minutes each but the ball must be in play for all of these 60 minutes. no longer will we have the cautions issued for time wasting, no longer players feigning injuy to waste time, no longer will we have managers pointing to their watches that the opposing team are not getting on with the match. Need i say more?
VAR was supposedly introduced to call out ONLY clear and obvious errors well it has far exceeded that and they are trying to 'referee' the game unless this stops then we will, if we have not already done so, lose the appeal of the sport to the general public.
Impressed by Gozubuyuk and his team
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Missed penalty call in min. 22.
DeleteVery interesting situation. Player was pulled to the ground. Surprised no VAR call
Delete"A 1-Billion-Euro team" can only beat a "200-Million-Euro team" with the help of the referee. Congratulations, Nobre. You'll be promoted to the Elit Category soon.
ReplyDeleteCome on you should know that this is theatrical nonsense. There were things to discuss about, but nothing like or any signs for an intentional disadvantage at all. The beaten team manager gave the drama queen, thats all.
DeleteMy views for MD5/MD6:
ReplyDelete-The names that come to mind to debut in MD5/MD6 are Strukan, Balakin, Lechner, Glova, Papapetrou, Al Hakim. I think that's where the names will come from, I don't see other referees who could have the possibility. Maybe I'm missing some names or some of these don't have adequate performance but I think about them.
-I feel like Dabanovic (if he does it right tomorrow) and Agayev will get a second chance.
-If Jorgji performs well tomorrow under Çakir's eyes, I think he will get another game.
I also forgot to add, if the committee had Kulbakov and Sidiropoulos in the plans, I don't think that 2 Conference games would be the "plan" and then a UCL game, I know, they are elite referees but I will wait for them at UEL on the next dates like the limit.
DeleteBetween Kulbakov and the Greek, if you ask me, I see Kulbakov more likely than Sidiropoulos at UCL in MD5/MD6.
Haven’t seen all games, but reading the comments here I think the Refcom has underestimated the difficulty of two games:
ReplyDelete- Copenhagen - Man United
- Psv - Lens
Sure on paper not the biggest games, but for me 100% expected that both games would be difficult because of the teams and the way they play. They sent Rumsas and the man out form (Siebert) to these games and eg. Makkelie to a calm and not so intense game in Naples :)
Please, can i have a link to a glossary or lexicon includes all the terms usually used in the forum (IMO, SDR, VC, OFR...) I dont know all of them. Thank you
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion (imo) / Violent conduct (VC) / on field review (OFR).
DeleteSerious foul play (SFP) is of course (ofc) used a lot. ;-)
Where did you read SDR?
And I was wondering myself, what is “LoR”? I think ESF used it?
IMO= in my oppinion
DeleteVC= violent conduct
OFR= On field review
DCG=Del Cerro Grande ;)
LoR= Lack of Respect (for the game)
DeleteUnknown, you already put more acronym/jargon ('ESF') in your reply without realising! 😉😂
DeleteGood examples for what an LoR caution is in practice:
Handling - https://youtu.be/DA1i4e7XiDA?t=2704
Holding - https://youtu.be/zSgqf4lXBSQ?t=97
Both of these actions did not stop a promising attack, but were rightly sanctioned by the respective officials.
Haha :) Thanks Mikael
DeleteThanks guys for the information
DeleteMy Early Prediction for MD5 and MD6 according to current standing:
ReplyDeleteMD5:
GALATASARAY - MANCHESTER UTD ORSATO
BAYERN M. - COPENAGHEN JORGJI
SIVIGLIA - PSV ZWAYER
ARSENAL - LENS STIELER
REAL MADRID - NAPLES COLLUM
BRAGA - U. BERLIN SHARHER
REAL SOCIED - SALISBURG SIDIROPOLUS
BENFICA - INTER NYBERG
LAZIO - CELTIC G. KABAKOV
FEYENOORD - ATL. MADRID VINCIC
PSG - NEWCASTLE SOARES DIAS
MILAN - B. DORTMUND MARCINIAK
M. CITY - LIPSIA GIL MANZANO
YOUNG BOYS - RED STAR BEOGRAD GUZUBUYUK
SHAKTHAR - ANTWERP SIEBERT
BARCELONA - PORTO OLIVER
MD6:
MANCHESTER UTD - BAYERN M. JOVANOVIC
COPENAGHEN - GALATASARAY LETEXIER
LENS - SIVIGLIA OBRENOVIC
PSV - ARSENAL PINHEIRO
NAPOLI - BRAGA STRUKAN
UNION BERLIN - REAL MADRID VISSER
INTER - REAL SOCIEDAD BASTIEN
SALISBURG - BENFICA MELER
ATLETICO MADRID - LAZIO TUPRIN
CELTIC G. - FEYENOORD EKSAS
B. DORTMUND - PSG KOVACS
NEWCASTLE - MILAN MAKKELIE
RED STAR BEOGRAD- M CITY MASSA
LIPSIA - YOUNG BOYS MARIANI
PORTO - SHAKTHAR TAYLOR
ANTERWP - BARCELONA GRINFEELD
Kudos to you for trying it. I did an attempt, but it is extremely difficult.
DeleteOn one hand, the Refcom will try to not break any unwritten rules, but on the other hand: you don’t want to ‘waste’ your best referees in games or groups that do not require a top referee. And without breaking unwritten rules, they are almost forced to do that.
Maybe I'll try later some prediction but until then I want to say that I think we'll see 2-3 double appointments in MDs 5 and 6.
DeleteYes, they will repeat some referees in same group again, but is it also possible to see:
Delete- e.g. Oliver in Porto vs Barcelona after Taylor did the same match in week 2?
- Or to repeat referees of the same nationality in week 5-6 with the same club. It’s might be difficult avoid this
If they want to keep country neutrality rule and to appoint the best referees for the toughest matches, I guess it will be unavoidable to repeat referees with the same team or to assign same nationality in a row. The alternative is to break country neutrality in MD6 for group in which some teams are already qualified. i.e. Salisburg-Benfica to a spanish since Sociedad is already at R16
DeleteLawrence Visser is injuried for 3 months. He's out for the first half of the season minimum.
DeleteMy first attempt with strictly no repetitions, but admittedly some not fully convincing ideas.
DeleteMD5:
GALATASARAY - MANCHESTER UTD Gil Manzano
BAYERN M. - COPENHAGEN Sanchez
SEVILLA - PSV Collum
ARSENAL - LENS Sidiropoulos
REAL MADRID - NAPLES Frankowski
BRAGA - U. BERLIN Kruzliak
REAL SOCIED - SALISBURG Jorgji
BENFICA - INTER Lambrechts
LAZIO - CELTIC G. Kabakov
FEYENOORD - ATL. MADRID Soares Dias
PSG - NEWCASTLE Marciniak
MILAN - B. DORTMUND Kovacs
M. CITY - LIPSIA Hernandez
YOUNG BOYS - RED STAR BEOGRAD Nyberg
SHAKTHAR - ANTWERP Oliver
BARCELONA - PORTO Makkelie
MD6:
MANCHESTER UTD - BAYERN Letexier
COPENAGHEN - GALATASARAY Orsato
LENS - SIVIGLIA Mariani
PSV - ARSENAL Vincic
NAPOLI - BRAGA Taylor
UNION BERLIN - REAL MADRID Rumsas
INTER - REAL SOCIEDAD Stieler
SALISBURG - BENFICA Zwayer
ATLETICO MADRID - LAZIO Peljto
CELTIC G. - FEYENOORD Meler
B. DORTMUND - PSG Gözübüyük
NEWCASTLE - MILAN Pinheiro
RED STAR BEOGRAD- M CITY Massa
LIPSIA - YOUNG BOYS Eskas
PORTO - SHAKTHAR Turpin
ANTERWP - BARCELONA Guida
Thank to Arbitro Internacional
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/ArbitroInteBlog
FIFA U17 World Cup
Friday 10 November 2023
10:00 CET - Surabaya (Stadion Gelora Bung Tomo)
PANAMA - MOROCCO | Group A
Referee: João Pedro da Silva Pinheiro POR
Assistant Referee 1: Bruno Miguel Alves de Jesus POR
Assistant Referee 2: Luciano António Gomes da Maia POR
Fourth Official: Umar Muhammad Ahmad Hassan Al-Ali UAE
Video Assistant Referee: Aleandro Di Paolo ITA
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Derlis Fabián López López PAR
10:00 CET - Surakarta (Stadion Manahan)
MALI - UZBEKISTAN | Group B
Referee: Gustavo Adrián Tejera Capo URU
Assistant Referee 1: Carlos Javier Barreiro Lara URU
Assistant Referee 2: Andrés Nicolás Nievas Acosta URU
Fourth Official: Aprisman Aranda IDN
Video Assistant Referee: Ismael Alexander Cornejo Meléndez SLV
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Joseph Dickerson USA
13:00 CET - Surabaya (Stadion Gelora Bung Tomo)
INDONESIA - ECUADOR | Group A
Referee: Espen Andreas Eskås NOR
Assistant Referee 1: Jan Erik Engan NOR
Assistant Referee 2: Isaak Elias Skjeseth Bashevkin NOR
Fourth Official: Umar Muhammad Ahmad Hassan Al-Ali UAE
Video Assistant Referee: Tatiana Auxiliadora Guzmán Alguera NCA
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Fedayi San SUI
13:00 CET - Surakarta (Stadion Manahan)
SPAIN - CANADA | Group B
Referee: Roberto Bruno Pérez Gutiérrez PER
Assistant Referee 1: Stephen Alberto Atoche García PER
Assistant Referee 2: Enrique Jesús Pinto Flores PER
Fourth Official: Aprisman Aranda IDN
Video Assistant Referee: John Edison Perdomo Horta COL
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Rodrigo Alejandro Carvajal Molina CHI
Thanks for the post. You can continue if you want!
DeletePinheiro with the opening match and Eksas with the home country. Uefa referees already the most quoted :-)
DeleteGozubuyuk penalty appeal: simply to understand that ball was not in play, so VAR couldn' do anything. Otherwise, very clear call. Player pushed to ground by defender. Missed prevention before corner kick, but this can always happen in penalty area.
ReplyDeletehttps://streamff.co/v/Rjbsjt8GwT
And live sequence of penalty for handball.
DeleteIndeed I think we can say it was reported by Zeinstra.
https://streamff.co/v/Gcae3Cf1ol
For me the ball is in play, very close but you would think VAR would have checked.
DeleteAlmost 5 seconds between the handball and a whistle. Maybe VAR "intervention"? :-)
DeleteHighlights of Danny Makkelie's performance in Napoli vs Union Berlin:
ReplyDeletehttps://we.tl/t-2QAuH1cZez
Thanks ESF!
DeleteHighlights of Donatas Rumšas' performance in Copenhagen vs Manchester United
ReplyDeletehttps://we.tl/t-PUg21YAUJI