Nizhny Novgorod, 21 June 2018 20:00 CET
Argentina - Croatia
Referee: Ravshan Irmatov (UZB)
Assistant Referee 1: Abduxamidullo Rasulov (UZB)
Assistant Referee 2: Jakhongir Saidov (UZB)
Fourth Official: Norbert Hauata (TAH)
Fifth Official: Bertrand Brial (NCL)
VAR: Felix Zwayer (GER)
AVAR1: Bastian Dankert (GER)
AVAR 2: Corey Rockwell (USA)
AVAR 3: Danny Makkelie (NED)
I remember Larrionda in Ita-Usa 2006, with 3 RCs. Tonight if Irmatov started with YCs at the beginning, he could have 4/5 RCs..
ReplyDeleteMaybe if he gave 2 YC's in firsth 20mins. there will be no reason for more.... With add of correct and quick decisions by ref.
DeleteI would argue that 5 red card plays would not have happened if he had been strict early on. And even if they did, it's better than letting players get away with very dangerous and dirty play.
DeleteOf course. Irmatov delivered a masterpiece of control, just like Geiger yesterday. Some people just fail to understand a referee cannot avoid dissent from players if they behave like the Argentinians or Moroccans did. A testy would lose his cool and ruin the match by engaging in a depressing card festival. Again, it's in matches like these that one gets to know who the truly great refs are. A very demanding match superbly controlled by Irmatov.
Delete*A testy referee
DeleteImpossible To keep the match under control in a such game with intensity and the scenario of the game without give a lot of yellow and red cards !
ReplyDeleteIrmatov do not have control of the match at all. He dont lead the match, he was leaded. Sometimes ref makes the match to be with hard intensity.
DeleteMaybe he could have a better control in first period, but in second with the opening score hard intensity is not make by the ref
DeleteImpossible?? Didn't the match unfold naturally and excitingly?? Yes. it did. So of course it is indeed possible but one needs top refs like Irmatov.
DeleteWhen you have such a difficult match, you have to consider everything. The referee obviously wanted to manage it without cuationing players the whole time. OK he missed some cautions but his performance wasn't weak or the worst of the tournament.
ReplyDeleteIn my book, he would be at the 8.2-8.3 area.
I agree. IMO he could have a 2nd GS match (for example Germany - South Korea?) and then a 3rd match between R16/QF. Then we will see..
DeleteMatch become difficult when ref allow dirty play. Island and Nigeria dont deserve to seek forward to R16 against dirty players.(they must be banned).
DeleteIn UEFA's book of observations mark there is mark under 7.9 without crucial mistake. Mark for complete lost control.
He lost control? Definitely not.
DeleteSo, in any case, he is over 8.0
Irmatov controlled the match from the word go till the very end. Some folks seem to enjoy card festivals. This is football, this is the World Cup. It turned out to be a highly interesting and exciting match and of course Irmatov did his bit for that.
DeleteHe has absolutely no control! Absolutely! Man, he missed 5 possible ankle breaking, he wasn't accepted at all from the very beginning until the end, there was mess and riots on the pitch - how can you say that he had control??? He finished the game, blow the final whistle in 94' and that's the only thing he controlled last night. Poor.
DeleteTeo, funny, really funny. Now Irmatov is to blame for the fact that Argentinian players lost their minds and started pouring out their frustration? All you can do is talking about POTENTIAL, POSSIBLE things that didn't happen.
DeleteI'd be here criticising him if he had commited a crucial mistake influencing the result. But he didn't. It was a very good performance given the level of difficulty, with excellent control.
DeleteHonestly, this was right up there with Gassama at Mexico-New Zealand 2017 for the worst performance I've seen by a referee at this level. He should have shown more cards early on, and the game quickly spiraled out of control. There were three tackles (Rebic 39', Meza 45', Tagliafico 45'+2') towards the end of the first half that I thought should have seen red cards, he only showed a yellow to Rebic. After half time I think he knew he had lost control and dished out a lot of yellows in the second half, but his body language was awful and he looked like he just wanted the game to be over. Lots of dirty plays by Argentina that might have not happened if he had been stricter earlier on. Could have shown a few more red cards in the second half but it looked like he didn't want to be there.
ReplyDeleteIs this performance by Irmatov comparable with the Velasco Carballo showing in 2014??
DeleteOh my sainted aunt!! Irmatov has never EVER lost control of the match and the way the match flowed and became a really exciting one with no complaints whatsoever is supreme proof of that.
DeleteSoham: I don't remember too many of the specifics from the 2014 game, so I can't really compare. But I remember both games were bad.
DeleteSteve Smith: In what sense do you think Irmatov had "control" here? The game started off physically with some yellow-card challenges that went unpunished. If it had stayed like that, maybe you could argue he had control, but the game kept escalating, and there were 3 extremely dangerous challenges near the end of the first half. I suppose you might not have been able to prevent Argentina's dirty antics after going behind, but certainly if Irmatov had taken a harder stance against the stamps early in the game, the dangerous tackles near the end of the first half would not have happened. And, I would argue that the dirty plays in the second half would have been less likely to happen too.
Seriously, honest question, in what sense do you think Irmatov had "control" of this match?
Soham, I didn't watch BRA-COL in 2014. Was so so terrible Velascos' performance? Why? I only noticed on match highlights that Julio César's PK+YC should have been a RC IMO.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSoccer Guy, there's one thing you fail to understand: if he had started handing out cards as though there were no tomorrow the match would not have come to an end because there would not be enough players. What happened after all? At what point did he lose control? Is anyone complaining? Didn't the match flow naturally and excitingly? If he had started showing cards earlier, some players would be sent off early in the second half and then in that scenario he would lose control because players would get more nervous and rush to him after every foul asking for more cards. It would be the chaos and match would be totally ruined. The match itself proved Irmatov absolutely right. I actually think he beefed up his WC final chances tonight.
Delete"At what point did he lose control?"
DeleteAfter not cautioning Mandzukic for his stomp and after not cautioning the Argentine (I forget which one exactly) for a similar play on Mandzukic a few minutes later. This loss of control is evidenced by the 3 very dangerous tackles that came in during the remainder of that half. What you are failing to understand is that if players are on a yellow, they will be more cautious, and if they see the referee handing out yellows to other people, they will also be more cautious because they know they won't be able to get away with it. You're treating it as if the players would have behaved in the exact same way if Irmatov had shown yellows early. That's not how this works.
"Is anyone complaining?"
I'm sure if someone had broken a leg or ankle on one of the many dangerous tackles that could have, there would be complaints.
"Didn't the match flow naturally and excitingly?"
Not at all in my opinion. It felt scary, unsafe, dangerous. It was more of a street fight than a soccer match, as evidenced by the 7 yellows that were shown and the fact that there were a few other tackles besides those that were yellow-worthy and at least 3 that were red-worthy (though, as I said, maybe if he shows red on the first one, the other two don't happen).
You simply don't understand the game. Your comment corresponds to a totally arbitrary assertion without any link to reality. It's nothing but mere speculation that seeks to back up your imaginary arguments.
Delete"I'm sure if someone had broken a leg or ankle on one of the many dangerous tackles that could have, there would be complaints".
It didn't happen for a reason. And that reason is Irmatov's balanced and intelligent card manangement. You're attempting to construct something you wanted to have happened. It didn't happen and that demolishes your whole argumentation.
Did the players tell you they commited the fouls because they didn't like the way the ref was handling the match?? You simply don't have any objective event/circumstance proving he lost control. Had he lost control, the teams would be blasting his peformance, the media wouldn't be talking about anything else other than Irmatov. And so on and so forth. It's not happening.
"maybe if he shows red on the first one, the other two don't happen". Don't you understad it could be exactly the opposite? Showing many cards in 1st half or showing early red cards would bring chaos to second half: as this was a very important match and players' feelings reached fever pitch, they would start rushing to the ref and demanding more sending offs without any justifiable reason.
"It felt scary, unsafe, dangerous. It was more of a street fight than a soccer match, as evidenced by the 7 yellows that were shown and the fact that there were a few other tackles besides those that were yellow-worthy and at least 3 that were red-worthy". LOL? Seriously? Is this the movie you watched last night? Scary? Unsafe? Dangerous? Now I can add bloody, horrendous, agonising, spooky, apocalyptic. Let's get back to reality: an exciting match, the most exciting of the tourney with no injuries, no complaints, no controversies, three goals, everyone accepting the result.
You say the match diddn't flow naturally. Now you're trying to make up a whole new reality. The match ended in a positive atmosphere, with no injuries nor complaints. This is reality proving your fanciful reasoning absolutely wrong and Irmatov absolutely right.
@Quilava I didn't see the match in full either... But what I hear is that it was a very poor display by Velasco Carballo... Our other users who have seen the match might be able to tell better!
DeleteI recall a brutal foul on Neymar that left him injured that wasn't carded. Apart from that, there were several mass confrontations and he didn't intervene - players didn't respect him and he almost seemed afraid to intervene. That's what I recall.
DeleteOne question : If Brazil manages to reach the final, can Pitana still get the final? I guess most probably not because last time Pitana was planned for Brazil v Colombia but Brazil wasn't keen on accepting him so Pitana was swapped with Velasco Carballo who was planned for France v Germany... The rest as we know is history! :D
ReplyDeleteI don't know how the politics work, but I hope so. The "confederations rule" seems over-the-top to me. And teams should not be allowed to veto their referees.
DeleteCONMEBOL has 10 nations and each referee meets the other teams very, very often maybe 2-3 times in a year... UEFA referees meet one team once after 2-3 years so that's why it's a bit different while doing away with the confederation neutrality rule!
DeleteOn Irmatov : I think Uruguay v Russia can be an excellent 2nd game for Irmatov... Both teams qualified so pressure will be substantially less! He can do a great job in that!
ReplyDeleteWhat's the point to do a great job in a "friendly" match?
DeleteDoes that confirm that ref deserve a final?
Why should he be given a match with less pressure when he is a superb manager of the game and the emotions of the players? Actually, he proved tonight why he's a strong candidate for the final and why he's the only official with 10 WC matches under his belt!
DeleteFor me difficult to guess, how FIFA will evaluate his performance.
DeleteIf they liked it, I could imagine SRB-BRA as the next game, which has similar conditions - or direct R16.
If they consider it as mediocre, it could be indeed URU-RUS or ESP-MAR.
And of course, if they consider it as a bad showing, he could also be out of the tournament.
All these opinions are present here, so for me all three options are realistic.
And personally, I am still undecided, which one I prefer.
@Bozidar: The point of putting him in an expectedly easy game would be, that you then probably still have him as an option for a KO stage. You then can still decide, whether you need him or there are enough other options available.
DeleteIf he is still considered for the final, he should indeed get a better second game.
@Steve Smith Control yourself... I can understand that you have an opinion about the performance but you don't need to forcefully impose that on others who don't agree with you... Many of us think it wasn't too good a performance and disciplinary control was poor at best and you must respect varied view from others... Otherwise the entire point of a discussion goes away basically!
DeleteShocking to read if some people find that as a great performance...But first of all we used several times the word challenging for a game...let's say that was the first real challenging clash. Very inconsistent approach and I think he should have at least try to stop this battle in the beginning by giving 1-1 yellows.
ReplyDeleteVery tough game though. I also wouldn't speculate how other referees would handle this game...Probably with similar problems. But I must say even though Irmatov, is an experienced WC referee, but still far from the acceptance of a european ref.
Very hard evening and far from a good performance. In my eyes around 7,1 .
Congrats,you have use key words for this discussion:"he should have at least try to stop this battle..." That is the point. And the question: why ref do nothing to stop that? It is not only cards...
DeleteWhat battle? The game, the normal and exciting way the match unfolded proved Irmatov absolutely right. It was a football match, not a card festival.
DeleteSteve, 3 potentially ankle / leg breaking tackles in 8 minutes at the end of the first half is not "normal and exciting." And throw in the Otamendi incident, the running-into-Subasic play, the Messi reaction, and many reckless tackles early in the game, it seems to me like it was indeed more of a card festival than a football match (or at least it should have been).
DeleteSteve we have read your opinion several times. That was not football...
DeleteSurely not what I call football and want to see on the field .
And honestly I wouldn,'t mind to see maybe 8 yellows an 2 red card s if the game requires it..that's part of football. I think it was just rather a weak performance without d isciplinary control in a very tough game, I ad mit.
ou clearly don't understand the game. There's one sacred rule called common sense. A referee must enforce LOTG but at the same time he should strive to preserve the game itself. Your approach would lead the ref to get lost in an explosive card festival that would get on the players' nerves and spoil an intense and beautiful clash. With Irmatov's approach, there were no complaints in the end. The way the match unfolded proves Irmatov absolutely right and proves you absolutely wrong.
Delete*You
DeleteThat was very far from a beautiful clash. But you can see that as a brilliant game for Irmatov, I don't mind.
DeleteThis game has rules, what he didn't apply especially in the first half..he was afraid of taking serious decisions, that's it. He lost himself the control with all the mass confrontations. I don't know if an other approach could work, but what he only succeed is to keep 22 players on the field. And that's it. Many ugly scenes. Remember the message in every game:fair play. That's what we clearly missed today and that's what Irmatov failed to secure or at least try it.
Theref, I don't like the argument that "keeping 22 players on the field" is necessarily a "success." I agree that the referee should try to prevent send-off offenses from happening, but that wasn't the case here. When players deserve to be sent off, they should be sent off. There were a few tackles that fall into that category in my opinion.
DeleteSoccer guy I also meant it as a "success". Prevention is the key, but yeah here we talk about clear red card offences.
DeleteClear red card offences? Clear? Absolutely not. Again, it was a beatiful, exciting, entertaining match and Irmatov, with his balanced and intelligent approach to this highly triccky game, played a big part in that.
DeleteSoccer Guy, you are really funny, buddy. "potentially ankle / leg breaking tackles". Get out of that fantasy world and come back to reality.
Theref, of course the game has rules: LOTG AND common sense. Those who combine both are the truly great refs.
DeleteThis isn’t potentially ankle breaking to you?
Deletehttps://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/35973047_10216531415508218_4538718471143292928_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=066cd5e216adc8105b0c70576821c7fb&oe=5BAAC3C6
It's happened before in this tournament and no red card was shown. It's funny that you keep talking about POTENTIAL things. You can't hold back your frustration because it well worked to perfection for Irmatov in the hottest game yet. If you don't like him and want to charge on him, it's your problem. Everythig went off really well for him, no one is calling his performance into question, everything is ok. It was a great match and his intelligent approach added to it. He proved to be a great manager of the game. Period. The Committee should be happy.
Delete*tricky
Delete*it all worked
DeleteBALANCED and INTELLIGENT card management in the most challenging match of the tournament thus far. Not to mention the first-rate fitness and consistent foul detection. If Irmatov had showed the cards some wanted him to show in first half, the second half would have been ruined, players would be even more nervous asking for more cards and control would fade away. The way the match flowed is supreme proof Irmatov was spot on from scratch, proving him ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! What an exciting match that would have turned into a depressing affair with less experienced and less competent refs.
ReplyDeleteAre any of the teams complaining about the ref? Were there any crucial mistakes influencing the outcome? Did any of the players get injured (as I could only read "studs up studs up", "studs again", "terrible")??!? Is ref the main talking point??? NO!! Did he miss a YC or a foul? Yes, but seriously..where does that stay in the big picture? Those lashing out at Irmatov...cut the comedy!
Irmatov's performance should actually be used in refereeing courses as a great example of how to keep control under extreme pressure from players. I insist, this clash had everything to be ruined and to finish with 9 players from each side, had a testy and impulsive official been in charge. I'm the first one levelling criticism at referees when their decisions impact the result and the truth of the game, especially when VAR is in place and can right wrongs, its sole purpose. Tonight there was nothing similar to what we saw in POR-SPA, BRA-SWI or ENG-TUN. Do you see the difference?
By the way, I just hope nobody comes out claiming I'm from Uzbekistan and have to support this ref because there's no national team to stick up for :))) Some people are so narrow-minded that they will never get there...it's above their heads.
Sorry, but that's pathetic...and I hope you are alone with these thoughts...
DeleteTheref, what a joke your comment is...so many strong arguments ahah
DeleteI'll take it in stride as I see this is above your head :))
Many cars missed and especially in the last minute when the Argentinian player shot the ball right at Rakitic’s face after the signal. Clear violent conduct.
DeleteI usually consider you quite a measured guy and I also like Irmatov as a referee (my original pick for the final) but not tonight.
DeleteConsistent foul detection, two of the fouls he missed in the first half were remarkable!!
I really didn’t feel the match flowed and he was not recognised as the authority on the pitch, so many protest directly at him with littke reaction.
Like you i first ask did he control the game? I suppose he just managed that. Did he affect the result? You can say not directly but the opening goalscorer should have been sent off in the first half.
I can’t accept not sending off Otamendi in the closing moments. We talk about setting a standard at the World Cup and protecting the image of the game. He has failed in this instance.
Irmatov’s chance of the final is gone again, hard to believe after 2010.
GerryUSref, the match did flow, fans enjoyed it at the stadium, it was really exciting. Three goals, it all ended in a positive atmosphere, everyone accepted the result and the refereeing. An impulsive ref would have sent off 2, 3 players and the match would end there. Irmatov, banking on his experience and excellent understanding of the game, was controlling it since the very beginning. He went through this before, he knew what he had to do and when.
DeleteIrmatov showed he's a serious contender for the final, in my book. I'm sure the Committee will approve of his performance because everything went off really well in the end.
Steve, you are all alone on this blog. For Geiger and especially Irmatov.
DeleteSeriously?? You better start learning how to read as I see many people holding with my view, both in this thread and the other one. In any case, your comment is really nonsensical because whta really matters is reality. And reality, buddy, proves me right :)
Delete*what
DeleteHow Otamendi did not get red carded is outrageous!
ReplyDeleteDisgraceful behaviour from all Argentinian player.
Yes. Clear and easy red card. If Irmatov didn’t notice it then VAR should have. What message do they want the world to receive? That you can shoot in soneone’s face after the signal without getting a red card?
Deletehow many yellow cards in this match
ReplyDelete7
DeleteBased on referee reflections performance,so far which referees are good at the skill
ReplyDeleteI only know see that here is second discussion so in interest of the debate i will repat my previous post here
ReplyDeleteI know that i will be most hated man here probably after saying this. But i must say, although i would also like a couple of more cards were given, in my taste this was quite good performance by Irmatov. A game that was edgy from the start, Irmatov took very risky aproach of not issuing cards but still managed to make things not to go over the top. It was tense all time but nothing big happened in terms of losing control of the game. Only confrotation that happened near the end of the game was result of frustration of Argentinian players becuse of the result of the game. So considering the importance of the game and heated mentality of both teams, in my opinion this was quite good performance by Irmatov
I do agree with most of what you said. It's a risky approach to take, sure, but ultimately, I did end well - no crucial mistakes, no injuries.
DeleteThe confrontation scene: I believe we can argue that Otamendi's action wasn't 100% VC. I liked how Irmatov solved this situation: Isolating the player and immediately booking him.
Hey, Teo, COME ALONG, buddy. Looks like I'm not that alone. And it is just one example among many :)))
DeleteHow can anyone assess Irmatov's performance as excellent??? 18% of readers here voted that it was excellent performance. It's a real joke. Weakest performance so far.
ReplyDeleteYou're the one who fails to understand how a super tricky match should be managed. Lear something with Irmatov because the way he controlled this heated affair was excellent indeed.
DeleteYou know, what? Maybe the Commitee has already voted :)))
Learn*
DeleteWell,just imagine if any player got their leg broken.
DeleteThen maybe also,in your opinion that would be excellent control of a match,just circumstances would be not good for him.
He should be thanking God that noone got injured,especially Vrsaljko or Mercado after legbraker fouls on them.
Just can't put up with the "if if potential" argument. It has no objective basis. Can't you realise no one is talking about the refereeing? There were no crucial mistakes nor any kind of controversy whatsover.
DeleteWe had an explosive match tamed by an experienced and reasonable referee who understands the game while enforcing LOTG. Match is over, talk is not revolving around the referee by any means and the incidents are not the problem some people here make it.
I'm sure the Committee is going to endorse Irmatov.
If he gets over 7.9 mark then I dont know what to say.
ReplyDeleteHis 1st half was one of the worst halfs I've ever seen in my life,fact that only Rebic got 1 YC despite 4-5 dangerous fouls says it all.
In 2nd half he learned from his mistakes,he started showing cards for reasons but now another problem was happening and he didn't deal with it good and that was frustrations coming from Argentina.
How Otamendi did not receive RC for kicking ball at Rakitic I still have no idea,at the end there was foul on Subasic,not even a word from Irmatov,Argentina did not respect opponet and kicking ball away in fair play spirit when Rakitic was laying down which then led to mass confrotation.
His game managament was bad and I dont how that ref,with 140+ international games can have a game like that.
I'm a referee but not at this level. Based on previous comments, when I watched the match this evening, I thought I was going to watch a bloodbath. That wasn't the case.
ReplyDeleteIn the first half, I thought he made two mistakes. The first was not giving a YC to Rebic on his flying challenge on Mercado. If you look at the foul progression - careless, reckless, excessive force - I believe this should have been a YC. This was a huge decision since Rebic got a second YC later in the half. The second was not giving a YC to Meza. This was reviewed by VAR and they agreed that it wasn't a YC so it's kinda hard to say that I was right and he was wrong.
In the second half, I didn't like how he handled the injury around the 76th minute but it really didn't impact the game. The final mistake was not giving Otamendi a RC. Although it didn't impact the outcome of the game, you can't ignore a situation where a player deliberately kicks the ball at someone on the ground.
So, it's hard to give a grade for his overall performance. With the exception of not giving a YC to Rebic on his challenge on Mercardo (which I think was huge), none of his other decisions really made a difference in the outcome. The game generally flowed well and except towards the end, which was expected based on the score, there wasn't a whole lot of player dissent.
My guess is that he'll get another game or two.
I'm so pleased to read such a deal of discernment. I've watched the whole match again (please, everyone do the same!!!) and there's only one single mistake with no impact on the final outcome, though: no YC to Meza (challenge on Vrsaljko). Right decision to give Otamendi a YC for moderately kicking the ball to downed player. The dissent was efficiently solved thanks to a great amount of natural authority and well-timed preventive remarks.
DeleteThe torrent of totally unjustified criticism towards Irmatov some folks shoveled into this blog is shameful. Ravshan was always very firm and balanced in controlling a high-octane and extremely challenging duel between two football powerhouses. It was all ok in the end and Irmatov passed the test with flying colours. Definitely reinforced his status as a big candidate for the final.
Argentina made up for lack of skill by hacking opponents; plus they often lost emotional control. The opponents didn't hold back with some of their own, but maintained emotional control. Not easy to manage. Irmatov managed.
ReplyDeleteYC for stepping on back of foot near end of 1st half was missed.
All other decisions most talked about were not clear and obvious errors. This included two early stomps on foot (no YC), step on ankle (player came in with moderate intensity), and kick of ball to downed player (cynical, but not giving RC was not a clear error and confrontation was extremely well managed). Players on neither team were much interested in playing at times -- scrappy match -- Irmatov kept it in under control. More "controversial" decisions went both ways.
YC's for two foot stomps early on could have changed match for the positive with fewer cards. They also could have caused match to blow completely out of control with multiple cards. We don't know and can't predict that.
In the end, a fun match to watch because it had some fire to it. I personally love refereeing matches like that; love it even more if 22 players finish the game. Irmatov made no critical mistakes. He managed to keep it together.
Excellent analysis, hitting the nail on the head ;)
DeleteI don't think this was the best Irmatov we've ever seen last night, but I think one thing all the readers who think that his performance was horrendous should acknowledge is: most people don't seem to have noticed or cared. The (neutral) media outlets I clicked through this morning were all mainly concerned with how poorly Argentina played and why Messi was invisible. No words about Irmatov, which is an achievement as everyone seems to be screaming "where was VAR?" for every grey area decision during this WC.
ReplyDeleteYes, it wasn't the most consistent line ever, yes, he did miss some extra cards, yes, probably some situations could've been avoided with a stricter approach and overall it was a very risky approach. But as not a lot of people seem to be interested in this (I doubt that this would've been the case if he had brandished several RCs), I think Irmatov and Bussaca can actually be quite happy.
And I think he's a still a candidate for the final. Besides his experience, he has a geopolitical bonus as he'll probably be getting some sympathy in the host country for being from a post Soviet country. Especially as the domestic refereeing team is nowhere near this level I wouldn't underestimate this. And let's not forget that Rizzoli also didn't start with his best performance 4 years ago
In case of Rizzoli, some good performers were rules out because of their countries reaching semi-finals and other big names had poor performances... So Rizzoli was a forced choice rather than a deserved appointment to the best performer and we all know that!
DeleteWell, this a personal opinion, but I think Cakir would've been a more deserved appointment, but he was instead appointed to a semi final
DeleteI can't disagree with that... On performance principle that's absolutely true! Plus most importantly two of the best performers in that tournament - Kuipers and Pitana - were not available because of their national teams reaching the semi-final!
DeleteCakir wasn't even planned by FIFA, their idea was Webb but Argentina rejected him thanks to the Falklands Conflict. (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands).
DeleteThere was a rumour that Mr. Vassaras said that Irmatov would have been the final referee, but sth went wrong in NED-CRC (which was planned for Vera).
As you can see (too) much politics in FIFA...
Just like Brazil and Germany drafted in Marco Rodriguez for their match, similarly Argentina and Netherlands wanted Nishimura for their game which was not accepted by FIFA...
DeleteCakir was very good in that tournament so a 3rd match was absolutely deserved I must say... If it was indeed FIFA's plans to not use him in the KO stage at all then it was probably a very bad idea!
If this is true, I simply have to admit that FIFA's thought processes behind their appointments is beyond me. I find it irritating how one could even consider Webb for this final, given that he already refereed one in which he caused much controversy and him being from the UK, a country Argentina still has a fierce dispute with. The negative attention even before the match wouldn't have been in anyones interest and I don't want to know what would've happened if there had been a big decision going against ARG...
DeleteIt's always like that with FIFA
DeleteMark Halsey has reviewed Irmatov's performance as poor and given 5 out of 10 in ratings! English referees are in general some of the most lineant so if they also think something wasn't right, I tend to consider it as a not so impressive performance!
ReplyDeleteThat's your opinion and his opinion. Not the opinion of many here. As simple as that.
DeleteYep... Surely not a style I would like to adopt in my games!
Delete@Mod: How can I block this “Steve Smith” person that always tries to impose his opinion on others, personally attacks them, but really has nothing relevant to add to a debate? He is really filling this forum with excess manure.
ReplyDelete+1 @Questionmark
DeleteVaried views and opinions are the essence of any blog discussion but when any reader tries to forcefully impose his opinion on others and makes personal attacks against others, it really leaves a sour taste in the entire discussion... The number of times someone has tried to impose on others that Irmatov's performance was a "masterclass" is indeed alarming and anybody who doesn't comply with it was attacked with words like "knows nothing about football" and so on... Funnily enough the concerned person had to write some same line for 30-40 odd times in order to make others comply with his opinion by hook or by crook... The same exaggeration happened in Geiger's thread too and lots of personal attacks and insults there as well to anyone who didn't agree with the ridiculous statements... Unfortunately blocking option doesn't exist in Blogger, I think!
I think, the quality of his comments is actually quite good, because he gives reasonable arguments for his opinion.
DeleteBut the form (tending to get personal) and especially the quantity is indeed annoying.
+1 on this as well... Personal attacks elimination is the key!
DeleteIt is also key that bloggers do not comment on everybody's views and comments. It creates a bit of an echo chamber at times. Just set out your views in your own comment.
DeleteOf course, if you think you can add something to the debate, fine. But I am not interested in your opinion on someone else's opinion.
The blog is a place for different opinion... Once someone writes something it's open for everyone to provide counter-opinions... Of course anyone who is not interested can ignore it... But as long as there isn't anything offensive, commenting on others' views or providing counter views is absolutely acceptable, I think!
DeleteThank you for proving my point.
DeleteI added to the debate :D
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DeleteI hope young referees never emulate yesterday's display :)
DeleteYou know nothing other than personal attacks... That's the only "talent" you have in abundance! :)
DeleteYou stay happy with your masterpiece of control and whatever... I'm just not going to endorse it, plain and simple, so need of lecturing me on it... Uttering the word masterpiece 20 times (wonder who the fanboy is!) cannot change others' opinion! So get on with it!
DeleteI will be short there.
ReplyDeleteAs long as Steve Smith shows that he is writing his opinion, he will be entitled to do that. But when there will be the perception that he is writing to attack personally other people, I will delete comments without any hesitation.
Yesterday what happened with Irmatov's match, in terms of comments, was in my opinion still a "middle way": Steve is of course allowed in having that opinion, however he shouldn't try to convince people in that way that he is right, even becoming arrogant and pedantic. This wont be accepted again. If you have a different opinion, I'm nobody to question on that, but if you want to catch the attention of all readers (see for example CAPITAL LETTERS), that's not good.
Remember that your ideas have the same importance of the other ideas. However, the big problem in moderation is that you can delete comments, and so on, but basically, that's not a very important matter. Everybody can write with another account and can do the same thing. So, under this point of view I'm in a big trouble.
Please Steve, this is a heartfelt message, I think that so far the discussions on the blog about refereeing at WC have been excellent. So, we must go on in this way.
A suggestion to many of the readers, again, this is the only thing you can do in some situations, if you feel sometihng like that: ignore.
Thanks.
Also some users think that posting comments from multiple accounts is the way to force others to agree with his opinion. I'm more than sure many yesterday's-today's comments were posted by one person from multiple accounts only to troll us and make a chaos. Another thing that has to be emphasized: perfect English and long posts don't automatically mean that the comment is worth of attention. Sometimes it's just unreal and directed to arouse a negative attention, it's just trolling. I won't post user names but most of use knows who is just a (very good, indeed) troll.
DeleteFinally, after what happened yesterday, I have decided to quit commenting on the blog and switch to a standby mode. Thanks for many years of good discussions but last days/weeks comments have become unreadable and I don't enjoy jumping into discussion/analysis anymore.
Regards
Dear RayHD, I'm really sad to read that, and I strongly hope you can change idea. Your contributions on the blog represent a big value for us.
DeleteRegards.
Hey Ray...come on! Make a break but please come back! We need you here. Don't let the dumbs stay on the field. Trolls are going on our nerves, yes. But they come and GO!
DeleteWE should stay! Kind regards and thx for your contributions! Andy
This is just toxic, so much of negativity and personal attacks... Ray didn't even mention anyone's name here... For sure, Ray is a much more valued user than trolls!
DeleteI cannot believe some of you find that acceptable.
ReplyDeleteThat was an absolutely horrible performance.
No courage, players abused him and made him look silly.
Completely agreed Jack... Let me caution you friend that please don't be surprised if a certain reader comes up with some abuse and letting you know what a "masterclass on control" it was and lots of other stuffs in an attempt to try to impose that view on you! You can ecpect such trolling here!
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DeleteWell - all guys here who are or were refs themselves know one thing: In the beginning of a match you "set the tone and create the disciplinary setting" - and the players find out how far they are allowed to go. Nearly always. Yesterday, too. And Irmatov just IGNORED the first rude fouls, especially stampings. Not even a warning. When he later step by step tried to get back control, that was much harder. He had defined his own level of control on a minimum level and handled control to the players. And in 2nd half Irmatov needed so many cards to prevent a catastrophe with 2 teams complaining and risking the health of the opponents until the end.
ReplyDeleteWhy do some here argue 1-2 necessary YCs in tje begin would have ended in a cardfestival? That us pure nonsense. A speculation far away from reality. They would have known, Hey, that guy is serious in his warnings. He tries not to break the flow and accepts s hard fight, but he is strict when he sees tvat the only aim is the foul, with no try to play the ball. THAT makes a great ref: An offer to let it roll AS LONG AS you try to play the ball. This is the line refs like Frisk have created and refs like Cakir or Brych follow today. Very easy: You have to do what you said before, and prevent the game that way. That even makes it exciti g and entertaining.
What Steven called for here, is a ref letting a war escalating without any seripus try to implant the rules of the game. War is entertaining, sure. The fights of the gladiators were entertainment. But that is not the sort of entertainment we want to watch in a football game. If a modern ref as some here suggest turns into a manager of exciting killing fields that is maybe perfect for the broadcasting medias. But it destroys football as we know and love it.
This discussion is over...
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