Monday, 25 June 2018

2018 FIFA World Cup Match 34: Saudi Arabia - Egypt (discussion)

Let's discuss here the performance of Wilmar Roldán in Saudi Arabia - Egypt. Good luck to the officiating team!
Match #34
Volgograd, 25 June 2018 16:00
Saudi Arabia - Egypt
Referee: Wilmar Roldán (COL)
Assistant Referee 1: Alexander Guzmán (COL)
Assistant Referee 2: Cristian de la Cruz (COL)
Fourth Official: Ricardo Montero (CRC)
Fifth Official: Hiroshi Yamauchi (JPN)
VAR: Artur Soares Dias (POR)
AVAR1: Tiago Bruno Lopes Martins (POR)
AVAR 2: Carlos Astroza (CHI)
AVAR 3: Wilton Sampaio (BRA)

112 comments:

  1. My fear is for this game-
    Roldan will take the "Undiano 2010 route" to the R16, with Mr Ruiz in the FIFA RefCom behind him.

    Undiano very struggled in his first match, showed an expected level in a dead-rubber match next, and then was okayish in his KO match. Mr Villar (in the news recently...) was his huge fan, and was chairman of FIFA RefCom at WC2010 IIRC.

    With all respect to the Colombian trio, I hope we don't see them again after today.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How Cáceres perform in the Iran v Portugal match will be very crucial in this regard, I think!

      One good news is that Oscar Ruiz is not a member of the RefsCom that's for sure... He is only a FIFA instructor, I suppose!

      Delete
    2. Yes indeed.
      Paraguay is also a politically important nation in CONMEBOL (not so much now, circa Leoz-Alarcon-Amarilla days), so it will be 'interesting' to see who the third South American through to the KO stage.

      Delete
    3. At this moment I dare to say that Cáceres is ahead... But all depends on his performance in Iran v Portugal today!

      Delete
    4. I think, we have 4 CONMEBOL referees who performed well so far and deserve a KO match. So already difficult to find games for all and therefore there should be no space for Roldan. Even Ricci and Pitana can not afford a bad match on MD3.

      Delete
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  2. Is there anyone who will be watching Roldan at all? If no one will be watching him, then I can keep an eye! I also want to watch Diedhiou though :D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm watching Uruguay - Russia, but I'll be watching this one immediately afterwards. So if there's anything you'd like me to watch out for, let me know. :)

      Delete
    2. That will be great... Will get to know about the important situations from you :)

      Delete
    3. I will watch Russia Uruguay. Despite of my interest and enthusiasm about refereeing, name of the referee is not that important in my choice of matches to watch

      Delete
    4. I'm watching Roldan but missed first 15'

      Delete
    5. Diedhiou has owned the whole game. The discussion is boring as.

      Delete
  3. Diedhiou starts with strong verbal warning for Cavani.

    ReplyDelete
  4. 25'

    AR2 followed instructions from FIFA to keep his flag down,Salah was tight offside but he didn't score.

    After the action, AR didn't signalized the offside, so VAR intervention should be needed.

    ReplyDelete
  5. 39' Penalty for KSA, correct decision IMO
    Defender 'extended' his further arm.
    The distance was short but position of the arm looked unnatural.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Defender makes the body wider.
      We have some similar situations on UEFA RAP and they are evaluated as PK.

      Delete
    2. Anything from VAR?? Roldan is most often very strict with penalties as we saw in the 1st game also!

      Delete
    3. This was also confirmed in an OFR. Obviously Soares Dias had a different opinion about the situation.

      Delete
    4. We didn' have On field review for the 1st PK, or I missed it?

      Delete
    5. Sorry, my mistake. It was checked only by VAR and then confirmed.

      Delete
  6. 45+2' second penalty for KSA for holding/pushing

    Very soft one, if not wrong decision IMO

    The problem is:
    Holding was mutual and pushing from defender was light.

    We had OFR, Roldan didn't change his decision.

    Proccedure takes too long (2')

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. During on field review, Roldan watched the angle from behind, where only pushing was visible.
      I don't know is watching one angle enough for correct decision

      Delete
    2. this is not good for the game of football. It took soooo long for VAR and Mr Roldán to agree on OFR. Stops the flow of the game. Not happy.

      Delete
    3. Time for VAR check: more than 90"
      Time for OFR: 30-45"

      Delete
    4. Well not all referees have the guts to revoke their call... So this shows "clear and obvious mistake" is a subjective term and varies for the main referee and the VAR... For Soares Dias it was a clear mistake but for Roldan it isn't, hence VAR cannot eliminate difference in perception!

      Going by the description of the situation that you gave, this makes Roldan himself look like a fool not to whistle penalties in favour of England, likewise Brych with Serbia!

      Delete
    5. Normally when VAR asks for OFR, it is expected (by VAR and for world viewers) to see a change in decision. This is first OFR at WC that has not seen a change. As such, we have 2' of wasted time. One would suspect that the VAR (Soares Dias and 3 others) had SERIOUS doubts or SERIOUS thoughts about something.

      Then we watch the actual situation. The foul call is supportable and a RC (DOGSO -- another possibility) is not clear. The defender clearly has both arms way in front of him. Although the attacker may have gone down a bit easily, there most certainly appears to be a push.

      We also have to look at the situation. Often attackers fall when they have no chance to play ball. Attacker had position and a beat on the ball with a good opportunity to play it. In the end, we have a PK with no card (supportable) and go to a PK with a YC (equally supportable). Not a good use of two minutes.

      We don't know the communication between VAR and Referee, but I put more on the VAR for this situation than the Referee.

      Delete
    6. Well now. I just received a little more video (different angle). Attacker holds jersey. Defender holds arm of attacker. The attacker uses the combination to fall. No harm, no foul. No PK, no YC. No DFK. Play on -- two players dancing.

      So we have one of two possibilities:
      1. VAR disagreed with foul. In that case, this is on referee.
      2. VAR agreed that arm hold was enough for PK and wanted review for DOGSO (which is clearly not there). In that case, this is on VAR.

      I'd love to be the match observer and hear the communication. Now THAT would be interesting.

      Delete
  7. Correct first penalty. In extra time, another penalty. VAR took really long and communication between VAR and Roldan could be heard. 'SOARES! SOARES!' In the end, Roldan kept the penalty. However, the other way round could have been possible too. Lots of discussion and IMO it wasn't black and white.
    However, I think a free kick for the defender would be better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's play on IMO. Best decision!
      You can't penalize neither one team when both players are making foul...

      Delete
    2. I agree, but if I had rewatched it I'd say that the first foul is holding by the attacker. However, that's really arbitrary of course.

      Delete
    3. If anything this should've been whistled as an attacker's foul... If Brych could call a foul on Mitrovic in Kaliningrad then this is 1000% attacker's foul... Really poor, rigid and coward call by Roldan to stick with a faulty decision!

      Delete
    4. Coward penalty is definitely a heavy word.

      Delete
    5. Sadly that's the impression made after that 2' long VAR action and still making a wrong decision... The decision not to overturn the decision even after an OFR can be viewed as cowardly and arrogant IMO, he just wanted to stick with his call by hook or by crook... The VAR system is made to look like a fool here!

      Delete
  8. Well, well, well... Soft PK in 45+2', very soft. Soares Dias (who is easy in giving penalties) called him to re-watch, as he should do. Roldan watched for more than a minute from different angles and decide not to change the decision. IMO wrong decision, very, very soft penalty. We've had at least 6-7 situations where PKs are non whistled, which are much, much more PKs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Conclusion : Roldan doesn't have as much guts as Kuipers

      Delete
  9. I have seen both sit.now...
    With much good will I can follow the first PK. Handposition unnatural - but very short distance. 50/50. Ok.
    But the 2nd call is absolutely ridicolous. And that he is rewatching it for minutes and does not change his decision is nothing but a veritable scandal.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mr Roldan made a verdict to himself and bought return ticket for Bogota. Second Pk is really ridiculous.

      Delete
    2. Basically Roldan was looking for the minutest point to stick with his original decision, I get the impression... While dealing with VAR, one must judge by seeing the screen only and not go there with some pre-conceived will to find the smallest of evidence to stick with the one call... The best call must be made and not just the one the referee initially made... If a situation is 95% no penalty and 5% penalty and you are doing an OFR, you must opt for the no penalty decision for the good of the game rather than anyhow sticking to the initial penalty decision! Just my views but I think this is how mental preparation while dealing with a match having VAR system must be!!

      Delete
  10. Can we be sure now that Roldan is going home after this?? Weak personality and management, chewing gum in mouth, an attitude bordering on arrogance, struggling to get acceptance from players, awful and confusing management of VAR review and rigidity in changing soft decision! Everything that you don't want in a World Cup referee... With all due respect, I hope he takes the flight to Colombia in the next days!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Too harsh, Soham. Remember we are still talking about a WC referee. I already made my analysis about him, for sure he doesn't meet the requirements like the other referees, but he is still human. You are too severe :)

      Delete
    2. By giving him this totally unimportant game, he already got the message. But after this PK, I don't think we will see him in some big competition. He simply doesn't deserve that.

      Delete
    3. Chewing gum is not a problem for me

      Delete
    4. @Chefren Among all the points that I have mentioned, is any of the point wrong or unjustified?? Ok let's take out the chewing gum point :D Still there are enough reasons to send him home!

      Delete
    5. You forgot obviously wrong offsidecalls today...
      Let us be fair and say, there are offers for tv-shows for Roldan in Columbia. He will not get depressive without refereeing. His time as international topreferee is over.

      Delete
    6. Overall refereeing at WC has been most satisfactory. A few referees have struggled, e.g. Grisha, Irmatov and to some extent Aguilar. But to me only one referee has failed in delivering expected level. And that referee is Mr Roldán. Soham’s points may be harsh, but to me they are valid. Being in the WC is an honour, referees should have the time of their lives. Looking at Mr Roldán’s body language I don’t get that feeling.

      Delete
    7. That's the only thing I don't agree with :)

      Delete
  11. The 2nd PK is the worst decision of the World Cup so far, and even worse that it was made after VAR. Wilmar Roldán is awful.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Can't wait to watch the video of this penalty decision at the end of first half...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. https://www.flashscore.com/match/dv2fU7Mb/#video

      Shared by Teo

      Delete
    2. You can find the link obove. I watched the video of both incidents, none of them should be given in my opinion. While the handball was not punishable as the hand was in a natural position, the second penalty call was definitely wrong - offensive foul for my taste. According to the German commentator it was a 'scandalous decision‘. I agree.

      Delete
    3. First penalty decision is supportable, second one clear mistake...

      Delete
    4. Chefren, can you please check some previous comments on the Rus-Uru post. Thanks

      Delete
    5. I think it is supportable that Soares did not intervene at the first penalty decision, however, the decision to call the penalty is wrong for me. Again a scenario in which the call was wrong but not wrong enough to intervene.

      Delete
    6. @DrMr I deleted just that comment, but I'm sure he wanted to say only "idiots"...

      Delete
    7. It's really grey area, let's be honest. It's not clear mistake, supportable decision.

      Delete
    8. It's like 95% no penalty and 5% penalty... Once an OFR takes place the no penalty decision must be made for the good of the game!

      Delete
    9. Maybe. I know what I read, can't read people's mind

      Delete
    10. @DrMr. I can understand that you or some users find this call supportable. In Germany, you would never give this penalty - this might be a reason for my view. Let me correct my previous comment: Maybe not a totally wrong decision, but I would never call this one.

      Delete
    11. As far as you are talking about the first penalty, Dr Mr. The second call is clearly wrong - I don‘t see any possibility to support this decision.

      Delete
    12. My last comment was refered to Chefren :)
      Personaly, I would be more happy with no penalty. But we saw some similar PK on the UCL, I can support the decision

      Delete
    13. About second PK...
      unfortunately, it becomes the paradigma of inconsistency at this WC (PK decisions)

      Delete
    14. As I did on the other link I apologize for my words. Please understand my rage about the actions of some criminal individuals threatening the live of a referee after a match. I really cannot understand that - believe me for me it is no question from where someone is, but what someone does. Sorry, guys!

      Delete
  13. 47' penalty appeal from KSA
    Looked really soft on the replay, propably correct decision.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Now this is inconsistency by Roldan :D

      Delete
  14. He whistled Copa America Final in 2015, in Chile, for CHI-ARG (and did a good job).
    It also seemed like he was one of the few referees who could leave Copa America Centenario satisfied with his performances.

    It seems whenever he joins a WC, it starts to go wrong, for whatever reason.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't forget about the Confederations Cup last year... Maybe it's something to do with nerves at the ultimate big stage... FIFA tournaments haven't really been his strongest suit... But in CONMEBOL in general he is quite steady which is of course the reason why he made to 2 World Cups and 1 Confederations Cup tournaments!

      Delete
    2. Can we call it 'World cup syndrome'?

      Delete
    3. Or "Big FIFA tournament syndrome" maybe??

      Delete
    4. My idea was that, although one can 'get away with' an unmodern style in CONMEBOL (Argote, Carillo et al.), it does not work with FIFA's European instructions.

      I have no doubt that many top UEFA referees would struggle in Copa Libertadores, but such European style is the style that will take you to a WC Final in 2018.

      Delete
    5. Interesting! Btw I wanted to ask how is Victor Carrillo's style in general?? He opted out of the 2018 World Cup pre-selection process but he is still going quite strong in CONMEBOL games!

      Delete
  15. However let's note that:
    Kuipers + Makkelie = very soft penalty annulled
    Roldan + Soares Dias = penalty confirmed
    What does that mean?
    If two referees talk the same language in the meaning of coming from the same nation, if they know well each other, together they can form a very "solid" offciating team.
    But, if a referee comes from a continent, and another referee has a totally different background, it happens something like has occurred in Roldan's game today. VAR can't know how sic colleague on the pitch could assess a soft or a clear penalty. So, in this context, Soares Dias must be praised for the courage, because he intervened.
    I'm absolutely sure that many other VARs, being in trouble for such question, have supported clearly wrong decisions.
    In other terms, referee on the pitch and VAR should know each other very well, they should come from the same nation.
    See also Zwayer - Irmatov...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The same question like Linesman/ARs from different nations, á la WC 2002 which was pure disaster.

      I am sure that a REF-AR1-AR2-VAR-AVAR1 set quintets will be very common in the next years, at least in international refereeing.

      Delete
    2. Very good conclusion!

      Delete
    3. In.principle you are right
      But what about Brych/Zwayer? That def.did not work...

      Delete
  16. 83'
    Salah was 2m offside, there was a doubt who played the ball, attacker/defender.
    Offside was awarded with some delay, I think.

    ReplyDelete
  17. 90+5' Great onside decision leading to winner goal for KSA.
    8.5 worth

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good positive ending at least. Well done Mr. de la Cruz!

      Delete
  18. Saw the first half now. Penalty one is supportable. Penalty two is in my eyes a mistake. No offense, but I felt like we have Soares, Lopes, Astroza and Sampaio sitting in Moscow shaking their heads. The scene in 47' was soft, but more of a pk to me. One really big offside decision wrong by AR2.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Could have been better for all involved if they had given it to Hauata or some other referees who did not have a game yet....

    ReplyDelete
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  32. Hey Guys!!!Am so happy I got mine from Mike Fisher. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $14,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Mike Fisher because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Mike Fisher sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. i'm grateful to Mike Fisher because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except, Mali and Nigeria. Mike Fisher email address is blankatm156@gmail.com

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