Thanks to our user Philipp and the BuliSchiri blog, please find our second review of Bundesliga games played this weekend, in Round 27.
As last week: let's start with the crucial situations.
64' Penalty appeal (holding), not given
66' Penalty given (tripping), after an On-Field Review, penalty unrevoked
66':
Philipp: A fifty-fifty decision for him - it is not clear whether the foul is reckless enough to justify a penalty (Yellow Card better to sell a penalty call). An OFR was unnecessary as the decision was not a clear error or a missed incident.
80' Potential Second Yellow Card (reckless), foul given, no sanction
Philipp: Second Yellow Card is not mandatory for me, because the challenge is controlled and aimed at the ball and even touches it slightly. Also the intensity is not very high, therefore a final warning seems sufficient.
Mikael: Standing Leg tackle, painful for the felled attacker, reckless. Second Yellow Card must be given in my view.
VfL Wolfsburg - Borussia Dortmund
Overall good performance. Correct Second Yellow Card (SPA) issued at 87'. Referee missed an early card Yellow Card (SPA) at 11' and VAR Guido Winkmann correctly disallowed a late equalizer for offside. Correctly enlarged additional time to six minutes after some injuries. Quite surreal moment - at 68' a technical staff member, who would usually be sat on the bench, was cautioned sitting in the stands.
Bibiana Steinhaus in SC Paderborn - 1899 Hoffenheim:
Marco Fritz in Bayern München - Eintracht Frankfurt:
A fair match, referee handled what was in front of him well. A couple of potential cautions were not issued.
Sascha Stegemann in Schalke 04 - FC Augsburg:
Markus Schmidt in FSV Mainz - RB Leipzig:
Benjamin Cortus in 1.FC Köln - Fortuna Düsseldorf:
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| November's Berlin Derby, which was handled by Deniz Aytekin Harm Osmers faced no such problems from the stands this time |
As last week: let's start with the crucial situations.
Borussia Mönchengladbach - Bayer Leverkusen
Sören Storks [VAR: Benjamin Brand]
64' Penalty appeal (holding), not given
66' Penalty given (tripping), after an On-Field Review, penalty unrevoked
64': Holding was rather trifling, better to play on.
66':
Philipp: A fifty-fifty decision for him - it is not clear whether the foul is reckless enough to justify a penalty (Yellow Card better to sell a penalty call). An OFR was unnecessary as the decision was not a clear error or a missed incident.
Mikael: The intellectual framework for situations like this should be clear in my view - if the foul is careless after the shot, better to play on, if more, the foul should be given. Here it is not 100% clear, but I have a strong preference to award a penalty as the contact was on the standing leg, and definitely more reckless than careless. VAR should support either call if seen clearly.
80' Potential Second Yellow Card (reckless), foul given, no sanction
Philipp: Second Yellow Card is not mandatory for me, because the challenge is controlled and aimed at the ball and even touches it slightly. Also the intensity is not very high, therefore a final warning seems sufficient.
Mikael: Standing Leg tackle, painful for the felled attacker, reckless. Second Yellow Card must be given in my view.
VfL Wolfsburg - Borussia Dortmund
Daniel Siebert [VAR: Matthias Jöllenbeck]
80' Red Card (Serious Foul Play) given after an On-Field Review, no foul was awarded initially
Philipp: In his view Red Cards for follow-through SFPs are mostly unessessary because they punish mostly careless offences too much just because of the point of contact. However, the RC here is surely not wrong and it is a perfect example, where an OFR for a missed incident is required.
Mikael: There really needs to be an intellectual framework for assessing follow-through SFPs, which at the moment is very opaque. In this case, for me Red Card is the much better choice. I wouldn't blame Siebert for missing that too much on an expectation-perception-recognition level; very well spotted by Jöllenbeck.
Holstein Kiel - VfB Stuttgart
Robert Schröder [VAR: Patrick Ittrich]
89' Potential penalty (tripping), no foul given, no VAR intervention
Missed foul (and Yellow Card, SPA) but as the contact was just outside the penalty area, correct by VAR to not intervene.
A review of each of the performances in Round 27, thanks to Philipp:
Daniel Siebert in VfL Wolfsburg - Borussia Dortmund:
Not the most consistent piece of refereeing this weekend; satisfactory performance.
Robert Hartmann in SC Freiburg - Werder Bremen:80' Red Card (Serious Foul Play) given after an On-Field Review, no foul was awarded initially
Philipp: In his view Red Cards for follow-through SFPs are mostly unessessary because they punish mostly careless offences too much just because of the point of contact. However, the RC here is surely not wrong and it is a perfect example, where an OFR for a missed incident is required.
Mikael: There really needs to be an intellectual framework for assessing follow-through SFPs, which at the moment is very opaque. In this case, for me Red Card is the much better choice. I wouldn't blame Siebert for missing that too much on an expectation-perception-recognition level; very well spotted by Jöllenbeck.
Holstein Kiel - VfB Stuttgart
Robert Schröder [VAR: Patrick Ittrich]
89' Potential penalty (tripping), no foul given, no VAR intervention
Missed foul (and Yellow Card, SPA) but as the contact was just outside the penalty area, correct by VAR to not intervene.
A review of each of the performances in Round 27, thanks to Philipp:
Harm Osmers in Hertha BSC - Union Berlin:
In full control of the derby, an adequate line for the card selection. No major incidents in this match. His communication style could be described as a bit passive.
Sören Storks in Borussia Mönchengladbach - Bayer Leverkusen:
The most challenging and most discussed game of the weekend was managed well by the referee in his
view, although he was not faultless. Philipp does not identify any wrongly assessed Key Match Incidents in the game (see above).
Not the most consistent piece of refereeing this weekend; satisfactory performance.
Overall good performance. Correct Second Yellow Card (SPA) issued at 87'. Referee missed an early card Yellow Card (SPA) at 11' and VAR Guido Winkmann correctly disallowed a late equalizer for offside. Correctly enlarged additional time to six minutes after some injuries. Quite surreal moment - at 68' a technical staff member, who would usually be sat on the bench, was cautioned sitting in the stands.
Bibiana Steinhaus in SC Paderborn - 1899 Hoffenheim:
Not really challenged in a simple game; expected level.
A fair match, referee handled what was in front of him well. A couple of potential cautions were not issued.
Sascha Stegemann in Schalke 04 - FC Augsburg:
An easy-going match with a lenient, but suitable card selection; good performance.
Issued a high (five) number of Yellow Cards in the first half, which in Philipp's view despite some protestations, were good tactical choices that helped the referee stay in control of the match. Second half wasn't challenging. AR Martin Thomsen correctly disallowed a goal for offside.
A derby match which was not especially challenging to referee normal difficulty. Some room for improvement in foul detection; well seen penalty at 62'.
(Thanks to DutchRef for his clips!)
(Thanks to DutchRef for his clips!)
I have exactly the same feelings. Not really convinced by his soft skills. A lot of small talk without real and clear impact on players and I think sometimes a caution would solve situations, but he just try to referee in the way of Grafe. I think he missed already at least two mandatory yellow cards.
ReplyDeleteGreat fitness and really good posture on the field.
But I miss alertness and strong body language. Cases where Ibisevic or Trimmel were involved he has never won the situations and seemed the players don't care about what he says.
I agree as well. I think he could have had big problems in the second half if the score had remained 0-0. Hertha were starting to get very frustrated by the physical tactics of Union, especially considering the referee was really not taking a strong stance against these tactics. There were a number of times he could have cautioned a player but did not, and as you mentioned his demeanor seemed "passive" and unbothered by incidents that should be at least close to a caution. He's lucky Hertha took a (large) lead quickly in the second half, otherwise the temperature was only going to keep rising.
ReplyDeleteWow, what a game for Sören Storks this afternoon! Appointments to follow shortly.
ReplyDeleteNever expected that! Is he even a candidate for a future FIFA referee?
ReplyDeleteStorks is surely talented and age is on his side compared to some other candidates, so I would answer with yes. But his season was not good so far, resulting in relatively few appointments, therefore today's appointment is indeed surprising and certainly helped by the strategy to avoid long travel distances (he lives 128 km away).
DeleteI also see Jablonski before him but in the nearer future 2 places get free (Brych, Aytekin), so he might have chances.
DeleteThere will also be a third free place because Marco Fritz is older than Deniz Aytekin.
DeleteIndeed, I forgot Fritz. Very interesting years coming for German refereeing :)
DeleteOT:
ReplyDeleteBreaking - LaLiga competitions will resume from the 8th June week onwards. So, first matches are expected for 13/14 of June.
Kempkes- in the best case- reliable 1 Bundesliga ref. Not becouse performances, but years of age.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting start for Storks and team.
ReplyDelete1' Missed (at least) Yellow Card for reckless tackle
2' Penalty appeal (charging)
5' Very well detected defensive freekick on the edge of the penalty area
0-1 was a very well seen onside by Frederick Assmuth
Dortmund - Wolfsburg 34:34, player down and referee not practicing social distancing from him--lol!
ReplyDeleteThorben Siewer did a crucial mistake.
DeleteTo be honest I think that this VAR intervention in Storks game was a mistake: the fact that ball had been already kicked is not relevant for assessing a clear and obvious mistake. This can be absolutely penalty.
ReplyDeleteI think we can assume that VAR wouldn't have whistled it, while Storks confirmed his idea and he looked to be quite disturbed by this OFR, also forgetting to make VAR signal before indicating again penalty. A poor management, I think VAR should have stayed silent there.
Regarding the situation itself, for me penalty can be given but the debate about such cases is always open.
I also think that the intervention of the VAR is not needed.
DeleteThe penalty can be given.
In Germany it is normal that referees only make the VAR signal if they change their decision.
Agreed - it was tough to decide whether the contact was careless, in which case better to play on, or reckless, and then a penalty should be awarded. Giving a penalty, Storks should have issued a Yellow Card.
DeleteI would like to see it again but I think that Storks was correct to give a penalty.
To add - correct play on from a trifling holding in the other penalty area a minute earlier, where Gladbach were appealing for a penalty.
I agree about the previous assessment n the other penalty area as well - then nice advantage to be reported following an offside call by AR2, minute 72:00. This was a very good read of the game.
Delete@Anonymous thanks for the info about NO VAR SIGNAL in case of confirmed decision in Germany, I didn't know that.
I was a bit surprised about the penalty decision, not because it was wrong but because I've seen plenty of other similar incidents (and worse) in games with VAR not being awarded!
DeleteIt's a very clear and reckless challenge. Very weird that the VAR wanted him to check it.
DeleteThe penalty appeal and the penalty given:
Deletehttps://streamable.com/vbyky1
Agreed with Michael, it's a clear foul for me but too often we see defenders allowed to foul attackers after a shot has been taken... IMO that just means the challenge was late, which makes it worse! Very happy to see the decision correct by Storks, a bit of a bizarre OFR honestly.
DeleteI think it's possible that Storks said the attacker was hit by the stretched leg and not by the trailing leg. This would have been a wrong perception. However, given the fact that this was a reckless sliding tackle anyway, the VAR should have supported the initial decision.
DeleteFor me is correct penalty by Storks. But in my opinion there is no need to recommend a QFR.
DeleteMinute 80' definitely a clear second YC missed by Storks.
ReplyDeleteI don't see reasons to consider this challenge as only careless.
Again agreed. He showed good courage to stick with his penalty call after an OFR, but he really lacked it there...
DeletePossible 2nd YC Bensebaini:
Deletehttps://streamable.com/5rk7vh
Thanks for the video. Should have been a second YC. However, I think AR1 Thorben Siewer is responsible for that miss. He had a good angle.
DeleteRed Card in Wolfsburg given after an OFR - any info?
ReplyDeleteCorrect decision, Siebert completely missed this SFP, so correct intervention by VAR.
DeleteExcellent spot by Matthias Jöllenbeck. Not an intentional kick but definitely SFP.
Deletehttps://streamable.com/qws1az
DeleteExcellent decision, clear SFP.
DeleteOne should emphasize the calmness (chilled mood) of Siebert when he returns from review area. Same happened last year, when he awarded a penalty to Schalke in Schalke vs. Dortmund. No hectic behaviour, staying calm and focussed - looks really well.
DeleteFurthermore, good management with Wolfsburg players who want to criticize the decision when he is going to show red card.
Also, correct VAR intervention in Freiburg (90+1'). Very important decision for Bremen. The attacker was in an offside position.
ReplyDeleteCan you tell me who is the head of the German referees committee ? Thank's
ReplyDeleteLutz Michael Fröhlich
DeleteExcellent advantage in the penalty area by Fritz leading to 5-2 for Munich.
ReplyDeleteOverall convincing performance by Fritz in an easy match. Good communication with players, two important and good "no foul calls" against Bayern, acted in the background but stayed focus and active if necessary.
DeleteRobert Hartmann had a great advantage before Bremen´s winner as well.
On Tuesday, the decisive match between Dortmund and Bayern will take place in Signal Iduna Park.
ReplyDeleteWe should expect Stieler or Graefe as referee. In my opinion, Graefe would be the better choice but Stieler is more likely.
I would prefer Graefe because he has a higher reputation in the eyes of the players. He would of course be the safer choice if there should be more tension among the players in this maybe championship deciding match.
My bet would be Stieler for some reasons:
(i) His experience in this special match as he officated 3 of the last 4 clashes between Dortmund and Bayern in Dortmund
(ii) Last season, Graefe was in the middle of both matches in Munich and in Dortmund.
(iii) Stieler´s living ground Hamburg is nearer to Dortmund than Berlin where Graefe lives. The corona situation (refs have to travel by car and not by train) could therefore be a little factor as well.
I agree that Tobias Stieler is a likely option for Dortmund-Munich. At least it would not surprise me if he gets the match. He has had a very good season so far, so it would be a deserved appointment.
DeleteAccording to German newspaper Bild, Tobias Stieler will be in charge of Dortmund-Bayern tomorrow.
DeleteMainz-Leipzig Schmidt / Thomsen - Foltyn / Badstübner / Perl - Emmer
ReplyDeleteSchalke-Augsburg Stegemann / Pickel - Kleve / Willenborg / Stieler - Borsch
Köln-Düsseldof Cortus / Heft - Pelgrim / Waschitzki / Dingert - Bandurski
2. Bundesliga
DeleteHamburger SV - Arminia Bielefeld: Felix Zwayer, Markus Häcker, Daniel Riehl, Max Burda - Matthias Jöllenbeck, Henrik Bramlage
Holstein Kiel - VfB Stuttgart: Robert Schröder, Sascha Thielert, Viatcheslav Paltchikov, Eric Müller - Patrick Ittrich, Tobias Christ
Karlsruher SC - VfL Bochum: Tobias Welz, Arno Blos, Tobias Endriß, Marcel Gasteier - Nicolas Winter, Markus Sinn
Hamburg-Bielefeld is 2nd vs 1st. Schröder and Welz return after long injuries (last BL matches in 2019)
Can you report on Zwayer in this big game? I'm interested in his performance.
DeleteThe match provided no challenge for him. Good performance in an easy game.
DeleteRather physical start to Schalke-Augsburg, one yellow card (for SPA) already and a few more that worse close to reckless. In particular two stamps on the feet already just 11 minutes in, both of which I thought were reckless.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who doesn't watch the Bundesliga regularly, I'm noticing that the positioning of a lot of these ARs is sort of strange. Many of them seem *very* inexact in their positioning when an offside decision is not imminent. When the defenders (even if under pressure) have the ball near them, they are often standing up to 5 yards away from the offside line without seeming to make any effort to get in line. In other leagues I usually see ARs trying to be in the exactly perfect position 100% of the time, even if a decision is not imminent. For those who watch Bundesliga often, is this style normal, or are they just rusty from the break?
ReplyDeleteWhen defenders have the ball and an offside position is impossible, some AR's positioning is inexact, true. They try to focus on foul play in order to support the referee who can be quite far away when defenders play in their own half. It's not unusual.
DeleteI don't mean to say most ARs are step-for-step with the defenders when they have the ball, but to me it has seemed to go to more of an extreme than I have seen in other leagues (particularly MLS). Just an observation
DeleteIn Germany, the technical and stylistical (e.g. "hand-switiching") aspects of being an AR are not considered as important as in other countries. The focus is more on teamwork, i.e. support to the referee and of course correctness of decisions.
DeletePart of the reason is, that most ARs are referees themself one or two leagues below their AR level. Promotions are mostly done based on the performances as referee, while the work as AR is less relevant. AR specialization normally only happens in the very top leagues and even there it is quite common to be a referee and an AR.
Amin Kurhchieli (A. Hiecikaŭ, V. Hiecikaŭ - Markaŭ) will handle the Belarus Cup Final between BATE Barysaŭ - Dynama Minsk this afternoon.
ReplyDeleteHaving watched the game, he did look slightly nervous/precarious at times. But this is to be understood from a 26 year old. Overall, he got through the game, maybe a couple missed cautions but the big decision in the 83' was correct. After all the games I watched in Belarus, he looks very good and very promising, probably the most impressive ref in the country for me. I expect to see him in Elite in the future.
DeleteSorry, 85', not 83'.
DeleteThanks very much for the report - I wanted to watch the whole game was only able to catch the 1H. Good to hear that Kurhchieli handled it well.
DeleteI watched the situation you mentioned at 85' (https://youtu.be/dhIgxKdBJwI?t=6539) and there does seem to be quite an evident holding by the BATE defender. However, considering the theatrical fall by the Dynama player as well as the match context, play on seems the better choice (though I don't think Kurhchieli had the most optimal insight angle).
Viktar Šymusik and Dzmitryj Dzmitryjeŭ are more talented than Kurhchieli from what I've seen. The best referee in Belarus in my view is Siarhiej Sciacuryn, even UEFA Elite material IMO, but probably he won't be entered into the FIFA list by ABFF now (1981-born) :/
Yes, I agree, Stetsurin is a very good referee, his style is much different than that of Kurchgeli. Stetsurin is a law-enforcer. Kurchgeli is a more modern type referee with charisma and personality (I know many on this blog are not keen on this style of refereeing). :). He is also incredibly fit, a very good athlete. He is still young; younger than both Dmitriev and Shimusik by 5 years. I haven't seen Shimusik, but I've seen Dmitriev, and to me, he lacks personality. He also has had some management issues in some games which I have seen from him (Belshina vs. Dynamo Brest around 26', you'll see what I mean). Kurchgeli is being pushed because his style is what's in demand by UEFA and FIFA.
DeleteAgain, wrong time, 28'. Here is link: https://youtu.be/j73kxPhC6cI.
DeleteWith some sense in just calling the foul, this situation could be avoided
Thanks for your nuanced comment, nice to read that and also that I'm not the only person who watched games in Belarus during this enforced break :)
DeleteI would recommend watching Šymusik, he came across as a very good match-manager, empathically distant, good at keeping the overview etc. With a good grasp of English, important for his style, he could go far IMO. Though I'm quite certain UEFA wouldn't appreciate the Red Card he gave in the Smaliavičy - Viciebsk game (https://streamable.com/s3nckm) even if in my view it a supportable and even rather correct call...
Thanks for the clip, simply poor by Dzmitryjeŭ. You can have your own views about the Second Yellow Card he gave for Delaying the Restart here (https://streamable.com/0raawp). He seems a rather old-school referee: not much charisma, but I would say certainly personality, you can see that in the clip. That being said, with decision-making as in the clip you sent, he won't progress at all.
In my view Kurhchieli would be in really big trouble in a tough game, but I guess we'll have to wait for that. A better bet for UEFA would be Šymusik in my view, a natural manager. I certainly agree with your last comment :)
I HAVE READ CLATTS ADDMIT OFFISDE GOAL IN CL FINAL. CAN ANYOBDY ANSWER ME WAS REFEREEING IN THAT FINAL SO BAD, OR CLATTS DID IT IN RIGHT WAY, AND DOES ANYBODY KNOW HIS GRADE/ OFFICIAL/UNOFICIAL
ReplyDeleteYeah 1-0 was tight offside, this went almost unnoticed at that time, I never got why. Today with VAR this wouldn't happen. Apart from that I think Clatts was not so bad, but the mistake by AR was evident. Real won the cup.
DeleteDoes anybody konw his grade for that match
ReplyDeleteI asked a member of the refereeing team that question and they could not remember (:D), but they said Pierluigi Collina was very satisfied with Clattenburg's performance and congratulated them after the match.
DeleteWell, Mikael, thanks, but what do you think about his Euro final performance. I think it was remarkable and best i seen in recent years.
DeleteClattenburg had a good performance in Euro 2016 final but he was lucky that Guerreiro's freeckick just before Eder's goal hit the crossbar. That FK was awarded after a complete phantom handball (+ YC) from Koscielny that actually was commited by Éder.
DeleteThe luck that e.g. Karásev and its teammates lacked in Salzburg-Marseille (Europa League 2018 Semifinal 2nd leg) when Marseille scored the decisive goal in a completely wrong corner kick that between him, AR, AAR and FO failed to award as a goal kick.
Now it‘s official: Tobias Stieler will handle the top clash between Dortmund and Bayern this evening!
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ReplyDelete