The last set of appointments for the first legs of Champions League's Round of 16 clashes.
23 February 2022
21:00 CET - Lisbon (Estádio do Sport Lisboa e Benfica)
SL Benfica (POR) - AFC Ajax (NED)
Referee: Slavko Vinčić (SVN)
Assistant Referee 1: Tomaž Klančnik (SVN)
Assistant Referee 2: Andraž Kovačič (SVN)
Fourth Official: Rade Obrenovič (SVN)
Video Assistant Referee: Marco Fritz (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Jure Praprotnik (SVN)
UEFA Referee Observer: Pascal Pierre Garibian (FRA)
UEFA Delegate: Michael Kirchner (GER)
Referee: Slavko Vinčić (SVN)
Assistant Referee 1: Tomaž Klančnik (SVN)
Assistant Referee 2: Andraž Kovačič (SVN)
Fourth Official: Rade Obrenovič (SVN)
Video Assistant Referee: Marco Fritz (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Jure Praprotnik (SVN)
UEFA Referee Observer: Pascal Pierre Garibian (FRA)
UEFA Delegate: Michael Kirchner (GER)
UEFA Referee Liaison Officer: António José Almeida Marçal (POR)
21:00 CET - Madrid (Estadio Metropolitano)
Club Atlético de Madrid (ESP) - Manchester United (ENG)
Referee: Ovidiu Alin Hațegan (ROU)
Assistant Referee 1: Mircea Mihail Grigoriu (ROU)
Assistant Referee 2: Sebastian Gheorghe (ROU)
Fourth Official: Radu Marian Petrescu (ROU)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee:Marco Guida (ITA) Maurizio Mariani (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Francesco Bianchi (SUI)
UEFA Delegate: Adonis Procopiou (CYP)
Referee: Ovidiu Alin Hațegan (ROU)
Assistant Referee 1: Mircea Mihail Grigoriu (ROU)
Assistant Referee 2: Sebastian Gheorghe (ROU)
Fourth Official: Radu Marian Petrescu (ROU)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee:
UEFA Referee Observer: Francesco Bianchi (SUI)
UEFA Delegate: Adonis Procopiou (CYP)
UEFA Referee Liaison Officer: Pedro Eugenio Muñoz Piedra (ESP)
One of the biggest matches for Hategan and well-deserved. I think it will be a hot match in Madrid. Good, standard appointment for Vincic. Potentially a hot match also, Dutch and Portugese team often have hot clashes.
ReplyDeleteSo, the appointment of Hațegan answers to our previous questions about his "competition" with Kovács: the former is still in a very good position. Maybe one should start to think whether the time for something very big for him has come or not. This game will very likely give an important feedback about this question.
ReplyDeleteIn case of positive performance, he should be considered as candidate for Europa League final.
Vinčić with a less sonorous game on paper, but this can be very hot due to Portuguese teams way of playing and I would also add that this looks to be a very open tie.
I agree, it is time for something big for Hategan. A CL semifinal, or the EL final perhaps. Hopefully he delivers a good performance in this game!
DeleteOT: some clips from the Conference League game Olympique Marseille vs. Qarabağ Agdam, handled by Nikola Dabanović; I'd be particularly interested in how red-ishly others see the three cautions given by the Montenegrin ref (36', 66', 77').
ReplyDeletehttps://fromsmash.com/marseilleqarabag-dabanovic
Don't underestimate the game in Lisbon. Maybe is less attractive for public but still requires a very good referee. The teams are of the same level, very open tie. It is a much better game than Bayern-Salzburg or City-Sporting.
ReplyDeleteDear matei14,
Deletewhat do you mean by saying "a much better game than Bayern-Salzburg"?
Bayern - Salzburg is on paper ar least very umbalaced, the gap between the teams is too big. And because of this, the game should not be too difficult, which mean that not necessary a top elite referee would be need for this game. But it is not the case in Benfica - Ajax.
DeleteWell, having attended Salzburg vs. Bayern in the stadium last Wednesday, I can report that it was pretty balanced with Bayern luckily scoring the equalizer in min. 90.
DeleteThe game ended "balanced, too: 1:1.
Yes, in the end it turned out to be a balanced game, but the appointment was made days before, when it was considered an umbalanced game. Obviously, now we can expect a big name in the second leg for this game. I would like to see Cakir or Lahoz but frankly the chances are not so big.
DeleteMatei, do you (or Romanian media) know why Grigoriu is now preferred over Ghinguleac, who was trialed first, including at last year's Euro, as Sovre's replacement in Hategan's team?
DeleteI don't know, but I think it was Hategan's decision to change his assistant. Not sure exactly when he decided that, as Ghinguleac was in UCL game Benfica-Bayern. Ocassionally, he still makes team with Ghinguleac in Romanian's first league (so it is not a conflict) but not anymore in Europe. Maybe he consider Grigoriu more reliable at high level?
DeleteGhinguleac was a last minute addition to team Hategan, and I guess Hategan chose him because they worked often together previously. If you look in archieve, in 2017-2018 approximately, you can see very frequently Ghinguleac as 4th official in European games when Hategan was in charge.
Romanian media is active and promote every single international appointment of Hategan and Kovacs but it seem like the press did not noticed this change in Hategan team.
Now the trio with Grigoriu is consolidating for Qatar.
OT: all four matches of the Saudi King's Cup quarterfinals will be played today; while Al-Batin vs. Al-Feiha will be handled by local officials, the other three games are international appointments.
ReplyDeleteAl-Taawoun vs. Al-Ittihad
Referee: Nikola Dabanović (MNE)
VAR: Mohomed Obaid Khadim Mohd (UAE)
Al-Nassr vs. Al-Hilal
Referee: Mustapha Ghorbal (ALG)
VAR: Mehdi Abid Charef (ALG)
Al-Shabab vs. Al-Ahli
Referee: Sergej Ivanov (RUS)
VAR: Vladimir Moskalëv (RUS)
No Massa in Europa League on Thursday, as he has been appointed in serie B for a game on Wednesday.
ReplyDeleteTrying some predictions for EL games (appointments have been made before knowing first legs scores):
SSC Napoli (ITA) - FC Barcelona (ESP)
Anthony Taylor (ENG)
Real Betis Balompié (ESP) - Football Club Zenit (RUS)
Anastasios Sidiropoulos (GRE)
Rangers FC (SCO) - Borussia Dortmund (GER)
Carlos del Cerro Grande (ESP)
SC Braga (POR) - FC Sheriff Tiraspol (MDA)
Deniz Aytekin (GER)
GNK Dinamo (CRO) - Sevilla CF (ESP)
Artur Soares Dias (POR)
Olympiacos FC (GRE) - Atalanta BC (ITA)
François Letexier (FRA)
Real Sociedad de Fútbol (ESP) - RB Leipzig (GER)
Sergei Karasev (RUS)
S.S. Lazio (ITA) - FC Porto (POR)
Antonio Mateu Lahoz (ESP)
Mine are
DeleteSSC Napoli (ITA) - FC Barcelona (ESP): Taylor
Real Betis Balompié (ESP) - Football Club Zenit (RUS): Aytekin
Rangers FC (SCO) - Borussia Dortmund (GER): Kulbakov
SC Braga (POR) - FC Sheriff Tiraspol (MDA): Mateu
GNK Dinamo (CRO) - Sevilla CF (ESP): Meler
Olympiacos FC (GRE) - Atalanta BC (ITA): del Cerro Grande
Real Sociedad de Fútbol (ESP) - RB Leipzig (GER): Letexier
S.S. Lazio (ITA) - FC Porto (POR): Karasev
Maybe Bebek or Peljto in EL?
ReplyDeletePretty tough to see Bebel this year again EL.
DeleteYes, for EL returns I also expect:
ReplyDelete-Meler
-Letexier
-Aytekin
-Mateu Lahoz
-Maybe Peljto indeed
Not sure about Anthony Taylor. If he is 'saved' for the big game RMA-PSG (2nd leg) I don't think we will see him in EL. If he is appointed in EL, we may have to expect a different name for the return in Madrid (f.e. Marciniak).
Expected names in Round of '16 CL (2nd leg): Karasev, Del Cerro Grande, Massa, Makkelie and Turpin. Won't be surprised to see Marciniak in a 2nd game as well.
For RMA-PSG return match I don't see so many alternatives: excluding Turpin and the spaniards I only see Makkelie, Taylor and Karasev. Unlucky but not impossible Kovacs or Marciniak especially if they have performed well in their first leg match. Considering how much english teams are strong, I start to think that would be very hard for Taylor to be in the final. Makkelie is really lucky due to the very low probability to have a team form his country
Delete*unlikely not unlucky sorry
DeleteYes, agree with those names for RMA-PSG.
DeleteNot sure about your last statement. I don't undererestimate Ajax. They had a great groupstage and so far only 5 goals conceeded in Domestic league.
Regarding expected names for CL R16, I would add Mateu and Taylor to your list and remove Massa.
DeleteI also expect Taylor in CL 2nd leg.
DeleteWhy not Massa, in a not-so-tight game like MCI - SPO?
City - Sporting is even for a Category 1.
DeleteWe can easily imagine a new Elite here, indeed.
Yes, Massa is possible, but IMO not more likely than Gözübüyük, Schärer, Letexier etc. Just not one of the 6 referees, which I would call "expected name" for CL R16.
DeleteBTW, Massa had Sporting on MD6, so maybe that makes him less likely for their game.
I predict Scharer, it would be nice for him to get a reward for the good performances in group stage.
DeleteDo you expect a ban of Russia teams from european competitions after the recent dramatic evolution of the conflict btw Russia and Ukraina and the incoming war ?
ReplyDeleteWell that really depends on whether this is Yugoslavia-level of problem. I don't think Russia will be banned
DeleteI retract this statement
DeleteVery happy for Hategan. I didn't think he did well in last year's CL quarterfinal between City and Dortmund, but he's back on the big stage and due a good, high-profile performance. Definite candidate (along with Michael Oliver and Slavko Vincic) for the EL Final.
ReplyDeleteJ.League will provide documentary films portraying referee Masaaki Iemoto. He was the most hated referee and is the most loved referee now, and he retired last year.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/j_league/status/1495956516670631939?s=21
Aytekin was also one of the worst referees in Germany (If I remember correctly voted by players) and later the best (most liked). J. League had a great show every week where they discussed the most interesting referee situation of the weekend, but sadly I think they stopped producing it after releasing a hand full of episodes.
DeleteRefereeing clips from Sporting CP - Manchester City handled by Srđan Jovanović
ReplyDeletehttps://we.tl/t-Y42hWr9U2m
At about 16' Vincic stops play before a corner to talk to Pogba and a AM player. A commenter said, "The jostling before corners has increased in every major league in Europe in the last few weeks." I think during the reply, Pogba was seen nearly closelining the AM player. Yet, of course, that isn't a foul because the ball was out of play, so it is natural for bad behavior to increase when it goes unpunished. I've mentioned it before, but this is a result of a gap in the rules that allows fouls to occur when the ball is out of play. How many times have we seen a push or a trip go without sanctioning because the ball is a few inches or feet over the touch or endline? The FIFA rules committee has been pretty innovative in the last few years, so it could at least look at closing this old gap in the rules.
ReplyDeleteVincic?
DeleteOops, I meant Hategan.
ReplyDelete35' Hațegan HAD to book Cristiano Ronaldo, sorry this can't be accepted, even before, but when he made also that gesture at the end...
ReplyDeleteAnd now he made the card gesture asking for it to an opponent.
DeleteDefinitely too much tolerance by Romanian.
For the second one in 40' Ronaldo is right, should definitely have been a booking for Llorente.
DeleteI feel that if there was any other player instead of Ronaldo, he would have received a yellow card. But Ronaldo is Ronaldo, sometimes the name gives you some advantages.
DeleteBut I agree that is disturbing, annoying for TV watchers. Same gesture again after HT whistle. Maybe a strong coversation will be in the tunnel. Anyway, it will be unacceptable to see Ronaldo doing this again, without being booked.
DeleteThe half time came at the best time:)
DeleteI missed this incident, do you have a video?
DeleteIn 22’ minute Vincic and his AR2 showed a lack of alertness at a throw-in of the guests. A Benfica player, clearly closer than the required 2 mtrs and impeding the thrower and even touching the ball after the throw-in, was not punished for that. On the contrary, Ajax was punished for a wrong execution. Clearly a wrong decision.
ReplyDelete40' clear YC for kick into Ronaldo's heal not given. Hard to rate Hategan highly after this and match may get out of hand in 2nd half.
ReplyDeleteDark yellow card for Nunez Benfica
ReplyDeleteClear revenge/frustration foul, but the LotG don't see that as a criterion.
DeleteAnd I don't think the normal SFP conditions were fulfilled.
Personally I would’ve supported a RC as there was no intention at all to play the ball. Safety of AJA 21 was at risk with this foul.
DeleteDissent and mobbing by Atletico Players is growing up.
ReplyDeletePossible penalty in Lisbon? For me clear contact, even enough for a intervention!
ReplyDeleteBoth penalty claims in Lisbon to minor contact for a review. Both situations no 100% mistake of Vincic. VAR correctly without a intervention.
ReplyDeleteHategan is one of my favorite referees. As far as UEFA goes, he's different from most of the other UEFA elites. He doesn't (at least, not as much as is normal in UEFA) "cut corners" to help him manage the game (his red cards from the EURO come to mind). Two examples from this game on foul-vs-no-foul calls that genuinely could have gone either way: 1) Atletico player thought he was fouled at midfield and goes down grabbing the ball. There was a case to be made that he was legitimately fouled, but Hategan didn't think so, so instead of giving the "easy call" here, Hategan stuck to his guns and gave a handball. 2) Dissent yellow card in the ~60th minute or so to Renildo for protesting a no-foul decision to the AR. Harsher line on dissent than a lot of refs take but I like to see it! Hategan is a very brave and strong referee. He's always the one making the decisions, not the players.
ReplyDeleteSome small criticisms: his whistle sounds awful, so shrill and hard to hear, and he always fumbles with getting the cards out of his pockets!
At least 2 additional dissent yellows from Hategan. His style does sacrifice, to some extent, his connection to the players, but that is ok because his approach doesn't require the players' approval. The players have to adapt to him, not the other way around.
Delete“The players have to adapt to him, not the other way around”. You perfectly describe why Hategan will never belong to the ultimate top of European refereeing.
DeleteVery bad Hategan in Atletico-Mancheaster United.
DeleteHategan not good tonight. He doesn’t have the management skills to keep players calm and to lower the heat. His foul detection and tactical approach are of moderate level. So many yellow cards and protests. This kind of teams needs a calm, confident and strong personality like Makkelie, Cakir, or Taylor.
ReplyDeleteTotally different aproach by Hațegan in the second half. He tried to adopt the modern style of refereeing, delaying the cards as much as possible and then let them flowing. The game is very difficult, many hard contacts by both sides, and Madrid's players protesting even when the referee is right.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, Turpin, Makkelie in the second leg but it will be a hell for anyone. Look how many cards are know!
I don't think that Makkelie will get 2nd leg, he has history with Atletico this year vs Liverpool.
DeleteTrue, although it was a correct RC. But for sure they will take no risk.
DeleteGood point regarding Makkelie, otherwise I would have said his name as well.
DeleteTurpin had Atletico on MD6 (and some history for them), so I would not expect him.
So unless Marciniak or Orsato are used again, I would choose Karasev for the game in Manchester (if he does well tomorrow).
I think 2nd game is going to Turpin.
ReplyDeleteIn ideal worls 2nd leg would be for Lahoz but he is spanish so that's not working.
Do away goals still count more?
ReplyDeleteNo, indeed, if a first leg is a draw, it is like the game has been not played, score doesn't matter for second leg,.
DeleteThank you
DeleteHas Simeone been in the coaching zone once? 4th official spoke to him various times, for my taste a YC or at least a warning by Hategan himself. Apart from that I lime him very much tonight. He‘s not afraid to give cards also and especially for dissent!
ReplyDeleteVery interesting to see the variety of opinions people here have on Hategan's performance. His philosophy is definitely a bit polarizing in modern refereeing. It would be less unusual to see in a region like CAF where refereeing styles are more varied than they are in UEFA.
DeleteSimeone leaves the technical area to complain and scream at the refs every single game. Not once have I seen him get anything for it. That's why he continues doing it. The law is clear, if a manager leave the technical area to show dissent towards an official you must get a red card.
DeleteVincic with a very difficult situationeel. Antony en Nunez in a confrontation
ReplyDeleteWell, Nunez has YC from 46' so maybe he forgave him another one.
DeleteShould have been a straight red card to Antony
DeleteA second YC for Nunez and a straight RC for Antony would have been an option too yes. Maybe a middle ground chosen by Vincic?
DeleteAntony did a lot, but I think none of the individual actions was a clear VC.
DeleteSo I think, Vincic took the best decision, but I agree, sending off both would have an alternative.
Minute 94 how is that not circumventing the law? Laying yourself down to head it to the GK so he can pick it up? Exactly the same as Veratti a few years ago.
ReplyDeleteI thought exactly the same, IMO this is a deliberate trick to circumvent the law to pass the ball to his GK with the head, so a punishable offense. IFK and YC to be given.
DeleteExactly, I am sure Hategan knows the law but thought ''minut 94 they will get insane if I do something''.
DeleteThe interesting thing here is absolutely no one clocked or cared, or asked for a whistle.
DeleteOne cannot expect the players to know about such specific part of the LoTG I guess :)
Ronaldo did raise his hand (as always...), so he maybe assumed, there was something wrong. Also Fernandes discussed something with Hategan after the final whistle pointing to the spot of the offence.
DeleteIMO, one can expect the players to know everything in the LotG, that tells them, what is allowed and not allowed - it's their job after all...
Return Ajax-Benfica will be a very hot match. Curious who the referee will be
ReplyDeleteMaybe Çakir? Not the highest profile match (which he isn't given anymore), but still experience is needed.
DeleteMateu would also be a good choice, I think.
DeleteMatéu is one referee finished.
DeleteI'm not an expert but in my opinion it was a nice performance of Dr. Hațegan (in ordinary life he is a doctor) in a very difficult game. He let the game flow, he was in control of the game and he knew when to book the players. For the return game the referee will have a difficult game.
ReplyDeleteToo many incidents in ATMMUN to analyse them now (I will upload videos tomorrow). But one thing is very clear to me - all referees in this year's UCL fixtures (I still didn't watch Oliver, Gil Manzano and Vinčič though) had clear problems with adapting a clear line with regard to foul detection / selection.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's all after last seminar where they were strongly urged to not give easy free kicks. Same idea is good but most likely the pressure on the referees was too big and they really struggled to find consistency in games played so far.
Today, Hațegan had a really hard evening because the inconsistency led to wild dissents while in PSGRMA, SPOMCI, INTLIV and VILJUV the players behaved in a calmer way. Apart from the (too) lenient dealing with 7MUN (the top star... and one can understand that by talking with him instead of issuing a caution, the Romanian wanted to earn some respect from players but that ultimately wasn't the case), he was consistent with punishing them strictly with yellow cards.
In my opinion, the UEFA Referees Committee need to talk with their referees again to work out some solutions because it's quite clear to me that the last seminar has done more harm than good.
I'm not totally convinced by Hategan's performance. Honestly, I expected something more in a match, I dare to say, not extremely difficult if compared to what one could have guessed, at least in relation to crucoal incidents and so on. The control overall was OK and we can't talk about a poor performance at all, but in my opinion there are many things that other Elite referees are definitely smarter to manage. My idea is that, unlike others, he struggles even more to find the right moment to start booking the players, and for this reason he sometimes allows them too much. However I appreciated the cards which were later shown, but I find a lack of balance if I return back to first half when it looked like he didn't want to book anybody. Also, the authority he shows doesn't seem always genuine, I rather perceive it as result of a struggle. However, unless there are clear mistakes, the judgment can't be too harsh.
ReplyDeleteThe particular thing of this performance is that if you want to "count beans", you can justify even a nightmare mark, but that's not the case of course, because most important thing is overall appearance. Still, I think he should have done better and I see very clear points for improvement. I woud go for a 8.2 but surely committee nowadays is not so harsh.
DeleteOK with Chefren. Hategan not good in Madrid.
DeleteI think the criticism of Hategan is harsh. It was a tough last season for all of his team, and for his first big game back with Atletico in the Metropolitano he handled the game very well. Showed cards in the right moments and kept control of the game. Nobody will be talking about him after the game.
ReplyDeleteSorry but of course people will talk. This wasn’t a good performance. I think Spanish and English media / analysts won’t be very positive about Hategan, not mentioning people from both teams.
DeleteWhat an extremely unsporting attitude of this whole Atlético Madrid team... overall, I thought Hategan had a good evening. Definitely a very good (actually, optimal) use of disciplinary measures throughout the match.
ReplyDeleteIn a way, I don't think we learnt anything new tonight:
- we know that Hategan can handle and keep under control (very) tough clashes with lots of rough/unfair play; he did that again here for sure
- we can observe the difference between him and, say, Marciniak, that has been touched upon above; though I do want to state, this is NOT somehow a uniquely 'modern' problem, UEFA/FIFA would have had the same attitude to Hategan for last 30/40yrs
However there are modern nuances which weren't the case even ten years ago and that leads me to the scene which was absolutely the most interesting of this whole match IMO - the verbal warning to Mr. Ronaldo after his dissent at 35':
- Hategan was right not to book for SPA first off: too deep and a covering defender right next to CR7
- not cautioning Ronaldo for his dissent is 100% what the UEFA vision is; sure, clearly warn him and demonstrate that his behaviour is too much, but don't book him and make him your 'enemy' for the whole rest of the night
- what happened next is very interesting:
1) Hategan DID succeed, and Ronaldo listened to him and basically accepted this verbal admonishment; this is great credit to the Romanian who worked VERY hard in this regard since we can remember him on the scene in the early 2010s as a very distant man on FoP; respect!
2) Ronaldo didn't quite completely accept him; Hategan is not Marciniak, who with charisma can get the players to completely 'buy into' how he is managing the game, and he made some (performative) small sarcastic gesture just afterwards
The whole evening was a bit of a macrocosm of that one incident - Hategan can ADAPT to the modern vision, but it is not his strongest suit. For that reason, more than Paris/Manchester or so on, I'm sure that UEFA (and, if we are being cynical, Čeferin) will never completely trust this referee.
However, he remains a very valuable card for the (increasingly rare) matches at the top level with quite genuine white hot tension. I am quite sure that this sonorous appointment was made with THAT idea in mind, differently to eg. Orsato's, Marciniak's appointments to top clashes last week.
Top referees are being accepted even when they make errors, while others are not accepted even when they make correct decisions.
DeleteNice one, Anonymous.
DeleteIn my opinion, one other reason why Hategan was appointed to ATM-MUN is because other top referees stay away from potentially dangerous matches; kept clean for advanced stages of this tournement and/or have a certain history with ATM.
Besides that, it was a good WC-test. I definitely think Marciniak is in front of Hategan as his modern managing style would work very well at WC. Moreover, the competition between Kovacs and Hategan is not over yet.
Regarding the circumventing the laws incident in 94th minute, I think an argument can be made that this was an instinctive decision from a defender in a split second moment. It's not an action where he has control.of the ball, kneels down and heads it back. I dont believe the spirit of this law was for moments like this one. If the ball comes at him Bouncing slightly we wouldn't discuss it.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting incident for me
Yes, I completely agree tbh - Veratti on his hands and knees, taking the p*ss out of the game (circumventing the laws!), is very different to what happened there, as you perfectly described it. Play on is definitely the right call for football here!
DeleteHategan did well overall, but as noted above, his inconsistent line led to many dissents and the match wasn't so challenging and better performance could have been expected, so I would rate it as 7.5. It is true that there weren't any major mistakes involving a PK or goal, but the incident at 40' with a AM player kicking the back of Ronaldo's heel with a good amount of force and nowhere near the ball is IMO a YC that even youth referees would spot, as the action was not only careless but could lead to injury. I'm surprised that no one mentioned another incident in the first half, the time of which I unfortunately didn't note, that was mentioned by the commentators and shown on instant replay in the broadcast I was watching, in which an AM player was called for a foul, I believe, though in fact he touched the ball first and then perhaps made contact with the MU player (perhaps Fred), and it was near the MU penalty box, so the call, though easy to get wrong in real time due to the quick succession of actions, stopped a promising AM attack.
ReplyDelete“Hategan did well overall” and yet you would rate him 7.5?? Please elaborate on that? IMO these statements don’t make any sense…
DeleteI see completely different opinions regarding the match's difficulty. Some say it was a (very) difficult game, some say it wasn't. I think it was a difficult game because of the many contacts, foults, some dissents and the unsporting attitude from the whole Atletico Madrid team, starting with the pressure put by the manager Simeone.
ReplyDeletePredictions for second legs:
ReplyDeleteLiverpool - Inter: Clément Turpin (FRA)
Bayern - Salzburg: Cüneyt Çakır (TUR)
Real Madrid - Paris SG: Anthony Taylor (ENG)
Man. City - Sporting CP: István Kovács (ROU)
Man. United - Atlético Madrid: Sergei Karasev (RUS)
Ajax - Benfica: Antonio Mateu Lahoz (ESP)
Juventus - Villarreal: Danny Makkelie (NED)
LOSC - Chelsea: Carlos del Cerro Grande (ESP)
Good predictions. :) I also have:
DeleteLiverpool - Inter: Turpin (FRA)
Real Madrid - PSG: Taylor (ENG)
Juventus - Villarreal: Makkelie (NED)
I also expect Massa (ITA) in the 2nd leg. He is the oldest promoted referee and we didn't see him in EL. LOSC-Chelsea or Man.City-Sporting would be suitable. Maybe on the other game we can see one of the other promoted referees who did best in EL.
The hardest games to predict:
-Man United - Atletico
-Ajax - Benfica
I really have no clue. Those games will be hot and tight ones and require very experienced elites.
Mine are also quite similar
DeleteLiverpool - Inter: Turpin
Bayern - Salzburg: del Cerro Grande
Real Madrid - Paris SG: Taylor
Man. City - Sporting CP: Letexier
Man. United - Atlético Madrid: Karasev
Ajax - Benfica: Mateu
Juventus - Villarreal: Makkelie
LOSC - Chelsea: Kovacs
Of course, Karasev, Mateu and Taylor still need to get through their EL game today without problems.
I don't really expect Massa, because all other likely candidates have been used in EL, so IMO this is rather an argument against him.
But I agree Sporting-ManCity probably goes to one of the new Elite referees.
Letexier is still very young and 'just' officiated 4 CL games. Hope he won't be pushed too much. However, politics...
DeleteAren't Massa, Gozubuyuk or even Schaerer more likely based on experience?
Taylor is not good referee for Real-PSG
DeleteIn general, Vincic did very well yesterday! He had some nice play-on calls when players fell easily and players accepted the line he applied. I never had the feeling that he would loose control. Definitely a QF for Vincic.
ReplyDeleteThis wasn't an easy game. Many hot-tempered players on the pitch. Return game will be very tough and hot one, as someone mentioned in one of the posts earlier.
@Euro Soccer Ref: you definitely need to watch the BEN-AJA game. Vincic also didn't give ' easy' free-kicks and I thought he had a consistent line.
I do like it when referees don't give easy free kicks. It was a great pace in yesterday's game, so I can understand what committee wants to achieve.
I'm glad to read many different opinions about yesterday performance because this is the reason for which we have this blog. Very proud to contribute to a nice discussion about the international refereeing. Thank to all writers.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, a very interesting remark can be about the abolishment of away goals rule, indeed in cases in which the first leg ends in a tie, the second leg acquires a 100% full importance, as it never happened before. In some cases, only second leg will be crucial for qualification. Of course you can't know that before, but surely this has reduced a bit more importance to first legs, the very decisive games are second legs, even more than before.
Committee was already used to appoint bigger names for second legs, now it will be even more frequent and, at the same time, maybe more courage in apponting certain names for first legs.
I don't agree with the second paragraph.
DeleteFirstly, one could say as well, if the second leg ends in a tie, everything depends on the first leg result.
Secondly, even with the away goal rule, the second leg was the game, where thinks would get more tense in the final minutes, because they bring the final decision. I don't think, anything has changed there.
So the only new aspect would be, that it is more likely to get extra time in the second leg now.
But yes, in most cases it makes sense to appoint the bigger name in the second leg (especially if the bigger team has a home game in the first leg). I just don't think, this has changed significantly without the away goals rule.
The abolishment of away goals could lead to more 30 min extra time extensions.
DeleteAh yes, you wrote that as well :)
DeleteDefinitely good to save some upper-elites for the 2nd legs.
Just rewatched the Antony-Nunez incident in the 87th minute. Just can't see how anyone could argue that is not a red card for the Ajax player. First a very high elbow and then a clear headbutt. If this isn't VC, then what is?
ReplyDeleteAnd in addition, I think the penalty call around the 66th minute looks even more evident. I have to say, although Vincic definitely looked more in control than Hategan, he missed two big match incidents here in my opinion.
DeleteYes, some referees would obviously give a RC here.
DeleteI agree that Vincic controlled the game very well though.
Vincic had a convincing performance yesterday. A clear line of detection. Alert to small fouls and was accepted all the match long. Personally I believe that because of his style of management the incidents didn't explode as could have been.
ReplyDeleteThe situation in min '86 was such a potential situation. But after the YC for AJA#11 everybody calmed down. Where with a low acceptance AJAX players easily could have been protesting more for a 2nd YC of BEN #9. Or the two penalty appeals (both side 1).
Key incidents for me in the 2nd half were the penalty appeals. Both where situations with very small contact. But not enough to be a foul or a penalty. Very good of VAR not to intervene in this one.
Other key incident was the foul out of frustration of BEN #9. He was very lucky there. My personal oppion is a RC in this situation. He was out on revenge and took it without playing a ball and endangering the health of AJA #21. Was it a missed RC? Don't think so since i've seen other opionins on the blog claiming with good arguments for a YC.
The situation in '86 was the last key moment for me. Here AJA #11 got a YC. I think that Vincic here made one mistake and that is no 2nd YC for BEN #9. Who started the mobbing with AJA #11. And AJA #11 was lucky not to get a RC for a VC. Which is defendable as well.
At least a good performance of the VAR this evening with a lot of grey decisions in which he could support the decision of Vincic.
I don't understand the positive comments on Vincic. He missed two crystal clear red cards. And the yellow card for Yaremchuk follows on a total lack of empathy by the Slovenian.
ReplyDeleteIf these were 100% red cards, the dissents would be much heavier.
DeleteEverything calmed down after the YC's, so after all it was a good decision in the spirit of this game and to keep control.
With respect to the YC for taking of the shirt. That are LOTG. Vincic has to give it, no matter what situation or message is given by taking of the shirt.
DeleteSince the shirt Yaremchuk was wearing under his match shirt had a political statement he can get a fine from UEFA for this aswell. As UEFA doesn't want political messages on the pitch.
Referees are expected to ignore their personal feelings with these situations. How hard this sometimes is if and when they feel personally connected.
I was at the match, Yaremchuk was booked for taking his shirt off after scoring.
DeleteAnyone a clip of the confrontation between Antony & Nuñez? Very interesting moment.
ReplyDeleteBenfica - Ajax, here some clips.
ReplyDeleteAs I didn't watch the game, I made these videos based on your comments.
I couldn't find the second penalty appeal and if you have other situations, please report the minutes.
46'
Possible RC for SFP
https://streamable.com/81wwee
67'
Penalty Appeal
https://streamable.com/vmsdff
86'
Mass confrontation
https://streamable.com/9rcilk
Thanks Chefren.
DeleteThe ‘ to the book’ referee would issue a straight red card to the Benfica player (46’) and to the Ajax player (86’). He decided to not issue a RC in ’46 and therefore, he couldn’t issue a RC in minute 86’ either. That would lead to incomprehension in Amsterdam.
In my opinion, Vincic showed yesterday that he can be a modern referee, with a certain match feel, not being the centre of attention and using his cards as a tool to control the game.
Nobody talks about him in our local headlines. I think UEFA will be happy.
Now that I look back the clips, Nunez was very lucky that he was able to finish the game. Straight RC and second YC missed. Antony RC also as noted earlier
DeleteIMO: I think 46' is not a RC in mordern refereeing. 86' according to RAP is a clear RC with VARint. The fact that the involved players were friendly with each other a few seconds later would probably make it hard for the referee (or the VAR) to give a RC.
Delete67' a PK for me, but probably not enough for VAR
My opinions after having rewatched carefully:
Delete46' is a clear revenge foul, this reminds me the situation occurred in Bastien famous game involving Young Boys Bern, when he issued a RC for a very similar incident, a player was running against opponent just to hurt him, this incident is very similar, but as Philipp wrote, the real evidence of the action of player can miss to VAR, the foul itself doesn't fulfill the criteria for red card, but the perception on pitch is clear, revenge and will to hurt opponent. This nuance is not reported on LotG so in my opinion VAR was right in supporting.
A RC shouldn't have been questione by VAR as well, but in this position I think VAR would have been more in trouble about what to do. Everything is about intention.
The incident in 67' is in my opinion never enough for a penalty and I would say that in case of whistle, it would have been rather a mistake. However, I think that Vincic didn't see the incident properly, as he immediately waited for VAR. It seems as he whistled a foul for defending team.
Then, coming into 86': very difficult situation. I think that the player from Benfica can consider himself indeed very lucky to have escaped from a YC. I think that the best solution here is YC to both players for mutual misconducts. The player from Ajax started a bit before the head to head confrontation, but opponent "accepted the challenge". So for this reason he should have been booked. Then, I agree that you can make a difference between them because the attempt to give a header was more visible by Ajax player, so he got the major punishment, YC. This was the reason for which VAR didn't intervene and I think again right, but best solutions were to me:
1) MERELY TO BOOK RC TO AJAX - YC TO BENFICA
2) TWO YELLOW CARDS
I find that leaving the behavior of Benfica player unpunished and considering also the situation in 46' is at the enf od the game difficult to accept, but still, you can understand why Vincic took certain decisions.
About the incident in 46', very important to add that one could still think player wanted to reach ball, it wasn't a very isolated attack on opponent with ball away, I just write that essentially to describe the criteria used by VAR to stay silent.
DeleteI watched the full game and thought Vinčić was good in a quite challenging (but not more) context. To add my 'tuppence worth' on the very interesting three clips:
Delete46': To orate my views on SFPs again, I believe we can broadly divide them into two groups: 1) ultra-dangerous tackles/challenges that endanger the safety, and, 2) 'fouls an attack' which endanger MATCH CONTROL.
This foul comes into the latter category. To be honest, I quite like the YC only here, as the (charging) foul is basically harmless for the opponent, contrary to tackles/challenges of the same 'red mist' format.
Personally, I think fouls like eg. Esgaio's vs. Man City are more worthy of RCs than this one. BUT, if 46' was a foul made by a player, say, 0-4 down, then the best referees would instantly eject him. This class of SFPs is all about match control!
67': Quite interesting because there is a relatively significant contact there, but as the player can still carry not-ailed and then only fell of his own accord, correct play on.
86': UEFA in general judge their refereeing vision very well with general public's / fan's wishes, but I am not really sure that they do on headbutt incidents, and are trying a little to hard to keep games 11v11 in this regard.
If you headbutt an opponent, you should be sent off. I think that most people agree with that? Maybe I misjudge the general mood slightly, but this seems to be the view of most (non-refereeing) people to me.
But not UEFA's - Turpin's RC in Ajax vs. Valencia was only rated "8" by them. And does anyone remember the weirdly-originated comments beneath Lindhout's YL RC earlier this year? I wonder if their IP addresses were somewhere near Nyon...
Maybe I'm being too conspiratorial! But anyway, the players were friendly afterwards, it stayed 11v11, so I guess everyone was happy. But from a pure refereeing standpoint, we can say this scene maybe encapsulates some of the 'negatives' of elite refereeing in recent years.
I would add:
- crazy blackout by Kovačić and his ref at 22' (another quite poor (-0,2) offside call by him later btw)
- flagrant impeding the progress with contact scenes ignored by Vinčić at 28' and +93', as per the guidelines
- a clear simulation (-> missed YC) by Ajax no.2 before Benfica counter-attacked and scored for 2-2; quite funny, because there was no advantage at the moment of the dive, but by the non-call, Vinčić actually did benefit the 'fouled' team!
Thanks all. Great analysis.
DeleteThis is exactly why you sometimes have to watch the full game, to get to know the full context - and not just the video's of the KMI's (46' and 86'). When you watched the full game, it is easier to understand Vincic' YC decisions. For me, match control and 'balancing things up' were key.
Videos from the Club Atlético de Madrid - Manchester United FC game
ReplyDeletehttps://we.tl/t-ZgXqAInnjU