Beşiktaş Park, Istanbul (TUR)
Beşiktaş JK - FC Bayern München
Referee: Michael Oliver (ENG)
Assistant Referee 1: Stuart Burt (ENG)
Assistant Referee 2: Simon Bennett (ENG)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Martin Atkinson (ENG)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Andre Marriner (ENG)
Fourth Official: Lee Betts (ENG)
UEFA Referee Observer: Manuel Díaz Vega (ESP)
UEFA Delegate: Martin Sturkenboom (NED)
14.03.2018, 20:45 CET
Camp Nou, Barcelona (ESP)
FC Barcelona - Chelsea FC
Referee: Damir Skomina (SVN)
Assistant Referee 1: Jure Praprotnik (SVN)
Assistant Referee 2: Robert Vukan (SVN)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Matej Jug (SVN)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Slavko Vinčič (SVN)
Fourth Official: Tomaž Klančnik (SVN)
UEFA Referee Observer: Herbert Fandel (GER)
UEFA Delegate: Jozef Kliment (SVK)
Camp Nou, Barcelona (ESP)
FC Barcelona - Chelsea FC
Referee: Damir Skomina (SVN)
Assistant Referee 1: Jure Praprotnik (SVN)
Assistant Referee 2: Robert Vukan (SVN)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Matej Jug (SVN)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Slavko Vinčič (SVN)
Fourth Official: Tomaž Klančnik (SVN)
UEFA Referee Observer: Herbert Fandel (GER)
UEFA Delegate: Jozef Kliment (SVK)
Absolutely deserved for Skomina.
ReplyDeleteMažić without a CL Round of 16 assignment.
We should see him directly in a quarterfinal.
One could say that, given this appointment, the Serbian is maybe more likely for CL final, because a referee planned for such game should be kept. Of course that's only my idea and I can be wrong.
But the fact that Mažić is kept away so far from spotlights... plays in his favor.
This would be a good tactic. It's the last chance for Mažić and he deserves to referee the CL final. Slovenian will be a sure bet for next campaign's final.
DeleteImportant observer for Skomina in Herbert Fandel (Germany)...
Delete
DeleteIt is not necessary to observe more to Skomina,
I can't do anything about that :D UEFA has appointed Fandel to observe Skomina in Camp Nou so you need to tell them :D
DeleteMichael Oliver in Istanbul... What does this say about Committee's view about Oliver and Taylor?? On the other hand Sergei Karasev seems to be really, really out of favour!!
ReplyDeleteYes Soham, I agree. Good signal for Oliver who got CL KO stage before Taylor. We can't know the details of course, but Taylor in a not difficult game in Europa League, made that blatant mistake of missed cooperation with AR.
DeleteAt moment, given this appointment, Oliver seems to be ahead.
About Karasev: even in case of top clash in Europa League (for example Arsenal - Milan) the consideration at moment for the Russian is not that high. He made some evident mistakes. Difficult to see him in a CL quarterfinal, but of course everything will depend on next performance, draws, teams, and first leg scores.
I'm just wondering how the Russian will be accommodated in the World Cup panel if at all he has to be because of political reason of being from host country and all that... The other 9 referees including Turpin are much ahead of him and in no way based on performance principle Karasev can be selected ahead of him... The only possibility now seems if Karasev is forcefully selected, then Marciniak has to drop out as 4O because he's the only official who can be omitted on performance grounds as of now!!
DeleteIf any of the UEFA referees will be used only as 4th official, it has to be Karasev IMO.
DeleteOnly chance for him seems to be, if all 10 get matches. This seems possible to allow at least 1 match for a host country referee, which happened at all previous World Cups.
Karasev is a very particular referee, if you ask me. Many seasons ago he looked to be a real talent with an excellent development and finally a very strong official from Russia. Then he started to make mistakes here and there, having some controversial decisions. He has never found a long period of consistency with solid performances. Before the last group stage, he looked to be again on the good path, then he had these mistakes in group stage. I think UEFA committee is aware and they don't want to risk him in a big game, according to performance principle.
DeleteOf course I say that with the maximum of the respect for the Russian, but he has been selected as referee for WC basically because from hosting nation. In my opinion, at moment, he shouldn't handle games, because all the other European referees are ahead in terms of consideration.
We will see.
In any case, you can see the big difference between how UEFA and FIFA work. We must definitely say that UEFA is a better world, there.
Beautifully put forward by Chefren... If anybody is made to miss out to accomodate Karasev then that will be very, very unfair... Even Jonas Eriksson might consider himself unlucky to miss out on the shortlist of 10... There's no way he is behind Karasev in terms of performance in the past season!!
DeleteI can confirm that Mažić is out from UEL, he has match in Serbian Cuo on Thursday, March 14th.
DeleteOnly one appointment for Mazic in Europa League, very likely a CL quarterfinal and then after that?
DeleteDirectly CL final?
Each time we were speculating about a possible final for a Serb, Uefa surprised us. Certainly he is one of the candidates, but I think it is too early to make such a conclusion.
DeleteOn Karasev, refereeingworld.blogspot.com has this interesting article
DeleteAsked about the presence of a Russian referee at the World Cup, Massimo Busacca explained that Sergey Kasarev "has the same chances as the other preselected; we choose the referees only based on their performance and not on political criteria". In recent days, the Russian Football Federation is putting pressure on FIFA with strong arguments. In 1998, Marc Batta represented the host country at the World Cup in France. He was not supposed to take part in the World Cup following a qualifying match between Germany and Portugal when he sent off Rui Costa. Joseph Blatter, then FIFA President, did not want Batta at the World Cup. But, thanks to lobbying by Michel Vautrot and Joël Quiniou, the leaders of the French refereeing at the time, Batta went to the World Cup, much to the dismay of Gilles Veissière. Second argument, Clément Turpin's presence at Euro 2016 was due to the fact that the competition was taking place in France, the French referee having been promoted to the Elite category at UEFA only five months before the publication of the list of referees for the European Championship. The last Russian referee selected for the World Cup was Valentin Ivanov in 2006, in Germany. ""
Atkinson assistant of Oliver? ??????????????????
ReplyDeleteYes more experienced refs are often AARs to their lesser experienced colleagues.. Skomina also acted as an AAR for either Vincic or Jug, whom I exactly don't remember!!
DeleteSoham, Skomina was the AAR to Jug in the CL match Celtic vs. Anderlecht on 5 December 2017 https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2018/matches/index.html#/iv/match/2021670/matchinfo
DeleteYes yes Jug it was... So it's not uncommon for more experienced refs acting as an AAR to a lesser experienced or lower ranked colleague!!
DeleteI'm not saying that generally this isn't true, but Skomina being AAR to Jug has nothing to do with it. on 5/6 December 2017 two Slovenian teams were appointed for CL, Jug and Vincic. Because AAR1 has to be FIFA listed (correct me if I'm wrong), there simply weren't any other FIFA referees from Slovenia available to take the task. Obrenovic was AAR1 to Vincic, Kajtazovic didn't have his FIFA badge yet. Last but not least, Jug isn't so young and unexperienced that he would need Skomina for his "backup" like maybe Oliver in his CL KO debut.
DeleteThe point is, for whatever reasons, it happens... And as for Oliver I already mentioned that appointing 2 refs like Atkinson and Marriner having a wealth of experience is an excellent idea... Will be a massive boost for Oliver in his KO debut to have 2 refs of such standard assisting him... So good appointment!!
DeleteAbout Greece incidents: According to some media, Kominis reported in his report that even Lubos Michel threatened him. If that is true I am very disappointed, expecially that I consider Michel one of the best European referees of all time :/
ReplyDeleteI didn't know about this new work of Ľuboš Micheľ.
DeleteIf what you reported is true, I would find unacceptable from a former FIFA referee at that level, such behavior. I would be more than disappointed and sad.
Michel recently had some other controversies as well if I remember correctly and that was reported in the previous blog... I just hope this news is not true or else it will be a really big shame for such a great FIFA referee of his time!!
Deletehttps://youtu.be/d0jsUnIonAA
Delete17th second of the video - it looks like Michel, the guy who is talking to Kominis. Probably there he said something or maybe even after the match. All in all sad, very sad if true :/
From this video he comes across as the peacemaker to me :/
DeleteYes, Soham... Based on this video we can't say anything! For me it looks more if Michel says "stop the game..."
DeleteMichel threatened the referee.
DeleteIt is written on the official report. He said "You are finished".
The match was abandoned due to the invasion of the president of PAOK.
Sometimes the gestures are enough to understand the words.
DeleteI have no doubts about that, watching the video.
If Michel uttered such small words to a referee who was honestly doing his job then it's a big, big shame... It is an extremely sad day for all of us who are either directly or indirectly associated with football refereeing!!
DeleteLubos Michel is now director at Paok, and i also heard that he threatend the referee.
ReplyDeleteAll we can ask for is strong action to be taken against offenders... Let's wait for official confirmation... It's really sad and pitiful if a former FIFA referee has behaved in such an irresponsible manner... It would be a shame!!
DeleteBig update from Greece. Greek government is considering canceling whole league
DeleteThat would be a very harsh but definitely reasonable choice. Presidents with guns, former FIFA referees attacking colleagues. I'm more than speechless.
DeleteYes if some action isn't taken then someday a club president having gun will kill a referee... We can't let things go to that stage anywhere!!
DeleteIt's official. Greek minister of sport suspended the whole league
DeleteThat's a good decision...
DeleteTo be specific it's a suspension for 1 week... After that depending on situation further course of action will be decided!!
DeleteI understood that league is suspended indefinetly
DeleteFA Cup Quarter-Final appointments :
ReplyDeleteManchester United v Brighton & Hove Albion : Andre Marriner (VAR : Mike Jones)
Swansea City v Tottenham Hotspur : Kevin Friend (VAR : Stuart Attwell)
Leicester City v Chelsea : Craig Pawson (VAR : Neil Swarbrick)
Wigan Athletic v Southampton : Michael Oliver (No VAR)
3 matches with VAR, 1 match without it. I really don't understand.
DeleteThanks for the appointments Soham
Delete@Chefren, Wigan currently play in League One (third division), which does not have the required number of cameras for VAR.
In case this match was at a Premier League stadium, indeed there would be VAR.
Hope that explains it!
Thanks for the explanation, Mikael. I thought it was just a deliberate choice by FA, without a particular reason. I apologize!
DeleteNo problem :-)
DeleteI think the constellation is looking good for Oliver to whistle this year's Final:
- The most technically weak match (likely to not attend the final)
- Without VAR (clearly Elleray trusts him)
- One can expect a hard fought, intensive match in Wigan, again big trust of the committee
- Swarbrick and Friend are some other candidates for the final; politically there is 'no point' besides a farewell gesture, FA will want to collect arguments for Oliver to attend EURO 2020.
- Especially in case of a top clash, eg Tottenham - Chelsea, Swarbrick, Friend et al are no option
I would predict Oliver as referee, Friend is Fourth Official, and Swarbrick as VAR.
Again about Greek derby: there is the video where you can see that PAOK's player was offside (there is the line drawn at 1.57 minutes in video below). But, I still think it's not punishable offside, because he didn't interfere with defenders, nor the goalkeeper.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQyNb89qDvU
The biggest issue here was that AR2 at first didn't raised his flag and the goal was confirmed. After protests from AEK's players, he changed his decision. The whole problem obviously came from there. After the game was abandoned, ref wrote in his report that after consultation with his AR, he decided that the goal was regular!
Interesting situation now in Alaves-Betis. Betis leading goal was suspicious. AR1 firstly raised the flag signaling offside and kept it up few seconds, but after the goal was scored he put the flag down. Of course, Alaves players protested a lot because some of them stopped running after they saw the flag up. Referee Del Cerro Grande.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptHCAt1owmg
Wow so many things there.
ReplyDelete1: It was not offside position
2: The head ref thinks it was deliberately player by the opponent and therefore told the AR to drop the flag.
It is clearly not deliberate play it is a deflection.
They got really lucky. TO allow the goal is correct but not for the reason the head ref and AR thought. It was simply a goal because nobody was in an offside position.
Regarding the location of VARs during the WC:
ReplyDeleteFIFA has denied the claim by Oscar Ruiz, that they will be located in Germany. Instead they will be working from Moscow, where also the referee will have their HQ.
https://www.tz.de/sport/fussball/doch-nicht-in-koeln-wo-sitzen-video-schiedsrichter-bei-wm-in-russland-zr-9687232.html (in German)
Good first half by Michael Oliver in an easy game... Sold his calls really well and good personality on display... Should be an easy 2nd half too...
ReplyDeleteNice to hear that. I didn't manage to watch the game.
DeleteThaks for the update.
A cat that had entered the stadium stops play for a couple of minutes in Istanbul :D
ReplyDeleteSFP by Rafinha? (63')
ReplyDeleteHigh intensity and two-footed tackling...
In the context of the game YC looked okay to me... Need to look at more replays!
DeleteFor me that's yellow too. Although he hits a lot of opponents but also the ball. So throughout the game where hardly hard fouling occurred, yellow is there okay and justifiable. Appropriate line for the sentence. Full acceptance, all relevant decisions just right, always consistent.
DeleteSatisfying performance from Michael Oliver in an easy game... Shows once again that he's a really good prospect for the future!!
ReplyDeleteNow it's over to Damir Skomina and we reserve the next 103 comments for him... I hope we won't need that many though!!
RC for me. SFP. But agree with Soham about context.
ReplyDelete22' Clear YC to Roberto.
ReplyDeleteUnbelievable that Skomina allowed Messi to point that disrespectfully at him and downgrade him. Clear yellow card.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I am sure that any other player did that it would be YC
DeleteWhich minute was that on?
DeleteNo. Skomina was unpolished with Messi.
DeleteSkomina im my opinion is allowing too much talking to him.
ReplyDeleteWe saw the pros (flowing match, firm verbal warnings, referee out of focus) and contras (slightly missing acceptance, allowing the players too much freedom, not great dissent management) of the Skomina, laissez-faire style.
DeleteStill overall good performance IMO.
For this match absolutely fine but in a hot and dirty game the contras will overweigh and control will be lost!!
DeleteWillain was presumably booked with YC in 45' due to too much talking to Skomina
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteIf Skomina gave a YC to every player protesting his decisions the match would end with very few guys. Common sense is a very important rule. Fortunately Skomina is not Brych and, as a football fan, I can only be thankful for it.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree with your comment. Common sense is very important and I think Skomina did well.
DeleteI completely disagree... Skomina allows way too much dissent and if this was a particularly hot and dirty clash he would've lost control by now... And I'm sorry to say anybody undermining the authority of the referee needs to be penalised and Skomina has failed to penalise it... Brych's style over Skomina's style any day... The comparison drawn with Brych was absolutely unnecessary and frankly a joke... And also you're talking about Dr. Felix Brych who is one of the best referees in the world at this moment if not THE best!!
DeleteTotally disagree with you and by the way the real joke is your comment. Fortunately football has mnore "Skominas" than "Brychs" and a true football fan must be happy for that.
DeleteSohan...laws of the game is one thing, common sense is another!
DeleteRef-world, spot on! I mentioned Brych because he's an adept at (unnecessarily) ruining matches.
Delete@Ref-world I think right balance is the key... We can't ignore laws totally for common sense and vice versa... Different styles suits different matches and I think Brych is balanced enough in implementation of laws as well as using common sense... He simply doesn't tolerate any nonsense from any player however big a name it might be and I'm personally a fan of that!!
DeleteWe may differ in our opinions, probably a lot of people will disagree with me, but at the moment, Cakir is probably number one. But if if we consider last years, performances, important appointments, finals, Björn Kuipers is absolutely number one IMO.
DeleteSoham, just grow up! You definitely don't have a point. Let's talk sense. This is not a fan club. We all know Brych ruins matches very often. I mean no offence. I'm sticking to facts.
Delete@Steve Smith Do you see any football outside of UEFA?? Do you have any clue about how CONMEBOL referees operate?? What gives you the right to repeatedly talk about Brych's style and malign his name?? You can state your opinion but don't make a point that just brings out your own personal vendetta without a jot of logic or reasoning!! Whatever you are saying about Brych please back up with some logic... When did he ruin a game??
DeleteI am from Croatia and I watch Bundesliga regulary, actually it is the only league I regullary watch, and in general I am not fan of German referees style, including Brych. No doubt, great referee, but why so much finger pointing :/. I just dont like it. Not to mention flag technic in Germany, my God 😣
Delete@CroRef I'm a big Kuipers fan but overall I think the top 3 in the UEFA are Cakir, Brych and Kuipers... In terms of important appointments and everything these 3 enjoy the biggest confidence of both UEFA and FIFA!!
Delete@CroRef That's absolutely fine... We all have your personal preferences... But our friend Steve Smith just dragged Brych out of nowhere in Skomina's discussion and I feel maligning Brych's name wasn't necessary in this context... I simply don't support that approach that's it!!
DeleteCakir and Kuipers are the most loved by Busacca, while Brych at FIFA level, at least for now, has still to gain some credits... remember Belgium - Russia at WC.
DeleteI watch many football matches around the world. Do you really want my opinion? Brych is one of the worst referees I've ever seen. Nothing personal against him. He's poor both technically and in terms of disciplinary action. Not to mention his style, which I find a disaster. But let's make it clear: I'm talking about the referee, not the person. Make no mistake about it.
Delete@Soham: Since we are both fans of Kuipers, you will agree with me that considering last 5-10 yeara, Kuipers absolutely number one. If I am not wrong, he has the most international finals, only Euro and World Cup finals are missing there. But there is still chance for World Cup :)
DeleteThat's why I kept Brych at No. 3 and personally Kuipers and Cakir I would rate higher too... Although Cakir had a few substandard FIFA matches recently so I don't know where he stands... Kuipers with the U20 WC might be in good stead and also Mazic having done the Confed Cup final is rated highly too I would assume!!
Delete@CroRef, I was curious, how is a flag technique in Germany?
DeleteBrych ruining a match? Oh that happens so many times. CL final last year and Porto-Juve (also last year), for instance, are a testament to this. Again: nothing personal against Mr. Brych as a man...absolutely N-O-T-H-I-N-G! I'm talking about the referee and his performances on the pitch.
Delete@CroRef Impressive palmares that's for sure... He has 7 international finals in all... World Cup final I don't know where he stands after the injury... Overall palmares in last 5 years surely Kuipers and Cakir are ahead of others!! Euro is only one tournament Kuipers could've done better on both occasions... In World Cup 2014 he could've gone far even to the final but Netherlands football team's progress prevented it so no regrets there... Coming to Cakir his last couple of years haven't been his best particularly in FIFA games!!
Delete@Steve Smith Clearly the referee's committee disagrees with you or else Brych wouldn't have got appointed to so many big games... And coming to Porto v Juventus and also the Final last year, I think we all agreed here in this blog that both red cards were correct !!
Delete@DA: Since I was AR in Croatia for years, oir instructors are very strict about flag technic: when to hold flag in left hand, when on right, never change hand while flag in the air (very usual thing in Germany), there are very strict instructions on fleg technique in LotG. I think that it is not good that referees from 2 bundesliga are regular assistant referees in bundesliga. You ate either referee or assitant referee, there is just no chance to develope well in both roles, and that is why 2 bundesliga referees are not that good as assistant referees in bundesliga....
DeleteSoham, your point is the one of a fan. We all know how some decisions in the Committee are taken, right? We all know politics plays a huge part or were you born yesterday? Those red cards would not be shown by a great referee, a truly great of this business like Rizzoli or Skomina. Not at all! Football needs officials who understand the game and care for it.
DeleteRizzoli at times was absolutely weak and bottled a lot of crucial calls throughout his career... If anything is political, the first in the list is Rizzoli getting the World Cup Final... Never seen bigger political and a more undeserved appointment than that!! There is huge differences between using common sense and bottling big calls and unfortunately Rizzoli falls in the later!!
DeleteI do not like referees very lush, very intervening.
DeleteBut violent conduct is violent conduct. This, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdRCEWY910U
is RC always, either at 30 'or 90' minutes.
@Flag technique in Germany: It is just not considered important in the education and in the assessment of ARs. As long as your signals clearly indicate your decision, you can more or less do, what you want (the 11 signals from the LotG still are mostly followed).
DeleteAnd I agree with that, because points like positioning, cooperation with the referee and of course decision accuracy are much more relevant than the flag technique, if that has mainly aesthetic reasons.
I think at grassroots level, when it is impossible to assess close decisions, it is much easier just to observe technique (I agree with Phillip for sure), and in some countries there is a very strict routine thanks to this.
DeleteI have been scared in England by how much some instructors demand total uniformity in flag technique at some meetings I've attended :-D
Talking about undeserved appointments? Nothing beats Brych in last year's CL final. And of course he proved he was not a good choice.
DeleteFacepalm when I see someone defendind Brych and putting him on the same level as Rizzoli or Skomina. Laughable indeed.
DeleteAbsolutely agree with Phillip that decision accuracy is the most important, but since I was assistant for years, I just like the entire presentation which includes technique. I just get very nervous when I see AR showing a goal kick or corner kick with his left hand (which I saw in Germany few times) 😉
DeleteWith all due respect in terms of achievements and palmares, Brych is ahead of Skomina everywhere!!
DeleteWith all due respect Brych is nowhere near Skomina.
DeleteWith all due respect the stats and palmares back my statement and not yours... Also note the difference, you're hell bent in showing a referee down by hook or by crook whereas I'm analysing objectively with stats and palmares... That's the difference between an objective discussion and the kind of rant you display because of your personal agenda against a referee!!
DeleteSoham, I call that despair out of incapacity to counter my points. Palmares says nothing. There are experienced incompetent people everywhere. Politics is a very powerful tool. I mention real situations. That's the difference :)
DeleteYou want me to dig out every poor performance of Skomina now?
DeleteGreat piece of reading describing the two styles, Skomina - the game manager, and Brych - the law enforcer.
Deletehttp://www.psychref.org/2018/01/the-referee-as-game-manager.html#.Wqof5cPwapo
Soham, you can do what you wish but you simply can't come up with a valid argument. Scroll up and you'll notice I was referring to the referee and NOT to the man. Guess all was said.
DeleteShearer, there's not a good law enforcer without common sense :)
I actually agree with Skomina's lenient approach in this match, as long as he is in control of the match, which he was in first half. Considering Messi, not the first, not the last referee who tolerates more from Messi or Ronaldo so, nothing unexpected to me. Expected level all in all...
ReplyDeleteThat's it. I've always liked Skomina's sober approach.
DeleteSkomina is ALWAYS lineant... Nothing new with that :D
Delete@Steve Smith What do you mean by sober approach?? The other referees have an approach that is not sober according to you??
Just look at Skomina and you will find out. A referee is not a clown. Skomina = great level of fitness, elegant run, sober gestures and body language, natural authority.
DeleteOther Elite referees aren't??
DeleteI didn't say that. But Skomina's style is by far the ideal one.
DeleteYour view... I disagree
Delete@Soham
DeleteMazic no. Very lush.
One referee I've never liked in the past, it was Mr. Fandel: many faults, many gestures ...
Not yet to mention my compatriot Benquerença... a circus.
Mazic sometimes... But a little gesturing isn't bad as long as it doesn't turn into circus :D
DeleteAnd I totally disagree with yours. A football referee is not a clown.
DeleteWith all due respect for original clowns of course because they're excellent at what they do.
DeleteCan you please enlighten me with names of some of the current generation refs who act like clowns?
DeleteWell Brych is a paradigmatic example. Benquerença yet another one in the past.
DeleteBenquerenca I can understand... But Brych being called a clown, well I don't know where that comes from!!
DeleteBrych is worse than Benquerença. And it's not only about gestures. He doesn't understand the game and loses control very easily. The worst referee I've seen at elite level. I still remember 2014 EL final between Benfica and Sevilla...the penalty shootout was comical. Sevilla's GK was allowed to break the rules in every penalty kick! Even in Spain they made fun of Brych.
DeleteOk fine he's the worst referee we have ever had... Thank you very much for enlightening me!!
Delete@Steve Smith
Delete"The worst referee I have ever seen at Elite level"...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
@Mikael We are just fanboys of Brych, right?? :D
DeleteMikael, next time try to show some substance, if you can of course, which I doubt :)
DeleteSoham, you're welcome :)
DeleteYou do not get to a CL Final by being sh*t- I am sure of that :-).
DeleteI can even slightly agree with Steve Smith, Brych's match practice is sometimes a bit too tight, and aesthetically the match isn't so pleasing. Indeed, when he sent off Torres in Barcelona, can you imagine Rizzoli (the most naturally brilliant referee I ever saw btw) doing the same? No, in short, he deserves respect for the guts to make such calls imo. So at times Brych doesn't make the best football matches.
But I think he ignores the fact that Brych is appointed to matches that NEED his style, where a fully flowing and friendly match is impossible- so his point is paradoxical and actually wrong. Serbia - Croatia 2013, Real - Atletico 2015, Belgium - Greece 2017: Brych can solve these very hot matches in a convincing way, and there's a many more in his palmarés.
We all have a favourite style of refereeing, but to totally dismiss a style is wrong. Benquerença showed he is a very sophisticated referee (URU-GHA, MNU-CHE), and to call such a referee a "clown" is unfair and not very respectful IMO.
Mikael, you mistake style for competence. I'm openly saying Brych is incompetent. Again, both technically and disciplinarily and I listed examples to back it up. All of a sudden I can also remember POR - POL in Euro 2016 and that unbelievable penalty he did not spot! Well, saying a poor referee can't get a CL final is a point not to be taken seriously. I think you know politics. True I don't like Brych's style (farcical gestures, disrespectful finger pointing, very clumsy, ungainly run) but it's more than that as I've already explained. To make a long story short, he doesn't understand the game and therefore he lacks that balance needed to apply the rules and at the same time protect the spectacle.
DeleteYep Mikael, excellently put forward by you as always... As far as I remember all sorts of disrespectful comments like this were the reason why Steve Smith was banned from posting in the previous blog in the last year... Chefren and Niclas banned him after his disgusting rant which was most probably towards Brych after Porto v Juventus last year!!
DeleteWhat I think the big fact is that neither Brych nor Benquerenca are anything compared to our great Steve Smith... Please someone ring up Busacca and book the 2022 World Cup Final for Steve Smith... Want to see his masterclass on elegance in refereeing and how not to be a clown in Qatar... Benquerenca and Brych will be glued to the TV to be enlightened about elegant refereeing and proper usage of common sense in such a scenario!!
Soham, you´re still making me laugh. I back all my opinions. What about you? Zilch :)
Delete@Steve Smith Now what you're saying is personal attack on the referee... You are totally incapable of objective analysis... You are talking about a referee who will have been to 2 WCs, 1 Confed Cup, 1 Euro, 1 Club World Cup, has whistled the EL final and the CL final... And of all you're calling that referee "incompetent"... You've no idea what you're talking about but the rant you're displaying is absolutely insulting and spiteful and clearly out of your own personal agenda against a referee... Who are you to judge the competence of such a person?? I'm more than shocked and disappointed today... I hope we see no more of you and your personal attacks in such a beautiful site!!
DeleteSoham, first and foremost, calm it down. The only shocking thinh here is your lack of maturity to deal with other people's opinions. Personal agenda? Are you kidding me? I talk about real situations and use them to back my views. It's only a matter of rereading my comments. You don't agree with my views but the truth is that you can't counter what I say. You still haven't had your say about the 2014 EL final penalty shootout, which was absolutely ludicrous, or that unacceptable mistake in a Euro QF (POR-POL EURO 2016). Insults? Where are them? You're the only one with aggressive replies and clearly losing your cool out of incapacity to debate.
DeleteInsults? Where are them? Experience is good if you are competent, otherwise we have an experienced incompetent. I back all my opinions with real situations. You can't do the same. You're totally unable to counter my ideas. What a deal of despair from you out of incapacity to debate.
DeleteOne or two errors cannot make someone "incompetent"... Get yourself together!!
DeleteAs far as I remember, I listed 4 or 5 clear examples of terrible decisions in crunch games. When a referee repeatedly falls flat when it was supposed to rise to the occasion and show the world he's a reliable elite official, well that speaks volumes. I could dig up many more examples if I took time to do so but let me finish this off by saying Brych isn't called the "ghost goal" referee for no reason. It's just another example :))
DeleteSoham, go try to learn something and you'll certainly avoid situations that show you in a very bad light.
DeleteSo. Are we done? Useless debate.
Delete49' penalty appeal, your thoughts?
ReplyDeleteIt would've been very soft if he whistled it.
DeleteSlight tug by Pique overplayed by Alonso.
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DeleteTotally correct decision.
DeleteVery well, especially the firm YC to Giroud
DeleteClear arm pull and clearly gets his leg after pullong the arm. Red card and penalty.
DeleteSkomina says play on and YC for Giroud for dissent.
ReplyDeleteVideo of the penalty incident. Correct play-on call to me.
ReplyDeletehttps://streamable.com/gtzvc
Definitely nothing. Penalty would have been more a mistake, IMHO, than a supportable call.
DeleteLook at the legs not the body
DeleteChefren, exactly my view.
DeleteNo penalty for me... I can't spot anything blatant here!!
DeleteMinute 75 SFP?
ReplyDeleteWell done, Skomina. Maybe he missed the YC for Messi and some elbow challenges, but he was correct on the only crucial decision.
ReplyDeleteTo me
DeleteSerious foul play minute 75
Penalty and red card minute 48
IMO that is never a penalty...
DeleteIf there's an El Classico Real Madrid v Barcelona in QFs who would you all prefer as referees for the two legs and in what order??
ReplyDeleteMazic,Kuipers.
DeleteNot fan of their style but they are definetly top 5 in Europe right now.
Agreed, those two would be the most likely choices with Brych, Cakir, Rocchi and Skomina having handled one of the teams in the R16.
DeleteMaybe some outsider chances for Eriksson.
@M I'm a little confused by all discussions tonight... Whose style exactly is good then overall??
Delete@Phillip Repetition isn't a problem I think... Marciniak did Barcelona in both R16 and QF last year and Kuipers did Juventus in both QF and SF... But teams didn't have the same refs in successive so no Brych or Skomina in the 1st leg!! Personally in such a game I would put Kuipers in 1st leg and Cakir in 2nd leg!!
I'm just a guy who likes to watch how refs handle games, I aint expert like some of people that are on this site so I can't tell which style is good or bad but I loved Rizzoli's style of handling matches.
DeleteFor Mazic and Kuipers,I'm not saying their style is not good(it's working obviously because they are one of the Elite's best).
I'm just saying I am not fan of it,but I respect everything that they achieved (and will in near future).
Yeah I get that... I actually wanted to know what are the criteria you look in a referee to term his style as a good one? I got a little confused tonight as views are vastly different!!
DeleteSolid performance by Skomina, I am sure we will see him in CL this season, will it be the final, maybe yes, maybe no, depends if committee will have a problem with his leniant style or not...
ReplyDeleteSo base od what we saw: Skomina and Mazic number one candidates for final, Rocchi and Lahoz could also be the option. Although, Lahoz was already two times in EL it could be some kind of warm up for possible EL final, something similar happened with Stark, but contrary to Stark I think Lahoz could/should get at least one CL match. Brych and Cakir couls go directly to CL semi finals. I am impressed with Turpin this season, he is surley a candidate for something this season, just as Makkelie who's appointment yesterday in fron Batta also indicates UEFA have some plans with him....
Damir Skomina's lenient style was never a problem for UEFA Referees Committee, so I guess tonight's performance should be deemed as a ticket to the CL final. Of course, there is also one strong argument in favour of Milorad Mažić. His career will end after this season. In case of no CL final in his palmarès, he could be considered as another Claus Bo Larson or Frank De Bleeckere...
DeleteI agree with every sentence. :)
DeleteIf Skomina gets the CL final then he probably won't appear in CL QF and SF... It will be an EL QF and then CL final...
DeleteBtw, can't they give the CL final to Jonas Eriksson as a sort of farewell gift?? He was cruelly made to miss out in Milan 2016 in order to accommodate a politically favoured referee!!
If Skomina is not going directly to CL final after a very solid performance in a tense match between two bigwigs, then it'll be as unfair as last year.
DeleteLast year the most deserving referee who has a better personality and is ranked higher in every aspect got the Final 😉
DeleteSoham, you make me laugh :)
DeleteI'll continue to do so in the foreseeable future... You can't back any of your views..either by logic or stats!!
DeleteI did it all the time...just scroll up :)
Delete"there is also one strong argument in favour of Milorad Mažić"
DeleteWell, I'm not that sure.
If Serb get one of the finals this season, he will probably retire after World cup.
But if he doesn't...
Also, if PLC needs him for Euro 2020, that could change his possible retirement plans.
That's also important.
Yes a referee whistling more than 130 matches is "incompetent" in your view... Your logic and reasoning in indeed great :)
Delete@DrMr By 2020 Euro Mazic will be 47... Will they take a referee who is 47+ for a major tournament?? I don't think so!!
DeleteSoham, yes that referee is an experienced incompetent. Is it clear for you now? :)
DeleteSoham , your incapacity to counter my points is glaring. I'm still to understand why you overreacted. I did not even talk about Kuipers :))
DeleteOnly according to you... No one else agrees with you unfortunately
Delete"I see now Soham as incapable of a rational debate. As soon as someone doesn't share his admiration of Kuipers/Brych, he responds with annoying emotional posts (probably because of his young age, that is lacking of maturity). On the other hand he dislikes e.g. Skomina for no grounded reasons."
Delete"I've noticed that it's becoming a place where some readers impose their views/opinions of referees on others. With that I refer to Soham's posts lately on admiring Kuipers and Brych over the boundary of a good taste."
Soham, is this your concept of "No one else agrees with you unfortunately". You continue to make me laugh.
Grow up and then try TRY to engage in a serious debate because so far you've only showed an enormous incapacity to accept other people's ideas and counter them. And everyone has already picked up on it. Btw, try to learn how to differentiate an insult from a grounded opinion. Just because you don't like someone's opinion, that doesn't mean it is an insult. Hope you can learn this lesson ;)
I would deeply appreciate you focusing on football refereeing instead of trying to re-engage this boring discussion. Thank you in advance :)
DeleteJust making things clear. The discussion is over.
Delete@RayHD: I would dare to say that not appointing Bo Laresn and De Bleckeere to at least one of the finals (EL or CL) is definately one of the biggest shames of Uefa Referees Committee.
ReplyDeleteBo Larsen I didn't see a lot as I was very small then... But I saw the last years of FdB and it's a shame he never got a big final... But still he at least has an El Classico in his palmares!! :(
Delete@Soham, your incapacity to counter my points is glaring. Insults? Where are them? You're the only one coming up with aggressive replies and losing your cool out of incapacity to debate. I'm still to understand why you overreacted. I did not even talk about Kuipers :))
ReplyDeleteI maybe a Kuipers fan but that doesn't mean I won't speak up for other referees... You have no right to call someone as incompetent!!
DeleteThis is my last comment to you @Steve Smith because you are using totally circular logic, the only two arguments you've presented are two crucial mistakes by Brych, and many adjectives, etc
DeleteI cannot decide if you actually believe what you are writing or if you just crave attention. Please @Soham if you don't respond he'll eventually get bored :-)
But I hope this says enough: last year on The Third Team I remember, you seriously said (I guess with a straight face) to Niclas, that you understand UEFA refereeing and he doesn't.
Enough said ;-)
@Steve Smith I strongly disagree with you as well, starting from your statements about the fact that Brych would be a clown. Very disrespectful and not acceptable, but since it is your opinion and you tried to explain it in other words, I wont delete that. We can say that each referee has a different style, Skomina is surely more calm and composed than other ones, but this is something related also to character, you can't change it and you can't draw some conclusions as you said, only based on that.
DeleteIn any case, I invite you to stop the discussion with Soham, I think now everything is clear, it was very boring for the other readers. Thank you!
@Chefren, I thank you for this post. I agree that each referee has his own unique style of refereeing, which some people like and some don't and what makes football refereeing interesting. I like this blog a lot but lately I've noticed that it's becoming a place where some readers impose their views/opinions of referees on others. With that I refer to Soham's posts lately on admiring Kuipers and Brych over the boundary of a good taste.
DeleteI agree with Andreja. I don't remember Steve Smith's conducts on previous blog, but I see now Soham as incapable of a rational debate. As soon as someone doesn't share his admiration of Kuipers/Brych, he responds with annoying emotional posts (probably because of his young age, that is lacking of maturity). On the other hand he dislikes e.g. Skomina for no grounded reasons.
DeleteI see this blog not as fanclub of some referees nor hateclub of others. Have you ever heard me cheerleading for Skomina (who I like, no doubt) or downgrading Kuipers (whom I don't TBH)? That's basically what Soham does IMHO, like Andreja has already said, over boundaries of a good taste.
I can understand things might not have come across the way I intended to... I am not a big fan of Brych and neither do I dislike Skomina at all... I personally took offence with Steve Smith branding an Elite referee as clown and incompetent which IMO is unfair... I could've ignord him but I thought I should speak... I never have a problem with his opinion but with his choice of words... I never insulted any referee on this blog till date... Opinion is one thing and insulting someone is another... From the next time I'll choose to ignore such thing instead of dragging on as per good advice from all...
DeleteOne thing I want to disagree here... I never wish to praise or criticise anyone over good boundaries... I don't dislike Skomina at all so no question of downgrading him and even for refs I don't like I can share my opinion but I never downgrade anyone... I'm not any big fan of Brych so no praising beyond good boundaries (but I definitely took offence with anyone calling him incompetent or clown) and Kuipers I am a big fan but I have absolutely no intention to ever impose that on others... If it has ever come across like that then it was unintential and something I never meant to impose on you all... Yes, I am younger than many of you, the passion for refereeing is very high, the adrenaline rush in the blood is still very high and sometimes emotions do get the better of me but as I said below as well at least I'm trying to modify it :)
DeleteMikael, actually I mentioned more than two crucial mistakes (I could dig up many more!) and mentioning crucial mistakes in several crucial matches means Brych is actually what I think he is - a poor referee who almost always falls short of expectations when push comes to shove and has been helped by politics. This is not an insult, it is my genuine opinion and it is totally grounded. I present arguments, you say absolutely nothing and, just like Soham, you behave like an irrational fan. I don't think Chefren wants this blog to turn into a brainless fan club. Enough said :)
DeleteChefren, and I totally disagree with you as well. That's what a debate is all about, right? My point is very clear.
DeleteGood performance by Skomina. He had full control, all YCs correct and the penalty decision correctly taken. Some issues with positioning and anticipatory movement, but nothing that we haven’t seen before.
ReplyDeleteHis style is evident in his refereeing, as Mikael stated as well. Skomina prefers to stay in the background. It worked today, contributing to a flowing match. Skomina so often makes top refereeing look very easy but he worked hard to deliver a good performance today. If UEFA so wish, it could be his ticket to the CL final.
Andreja, Sale, thank you for your wise words. I did not originally want to inject myself into this discussion, but seeing as you have taken your responsibility, it would be unfair to say nothing. To me, the use of international referees as props for shouting matches is highly irritating and does not seem to be (for me) the intent of this blog. I believe it puts people off from posting (it did for me) and even from visiting this great blog. Soham stated before Barcelona – Chelsea that we would reserve ‘the next 103 comments for him (Skomina)’. Unfortunately, 79 comments had to be used for his war of words with “Steve Smith”. I would submit that this is not a great use of (limited) comment space, nor does it constitute great use of one’s Wednesday evening.
It is my conviction that everyone has a right to give his (or her) opinion on this blog, provided that the subject is relevant and the words are appropriate. However, posters must remember that if they give an opinion, they have an obligation to let other opinions be heard, as well. Reading eighty comments about whose opinion is more stupid and irrelevant is not interesting to me. I come to this blog to read about refereeing, not about who can use bigger words. So please, be welcome to this blog and invite all your friends, but don’t get personal.
I want to close my sermon by saying to you Soham, your input and opinions are valued by me at least. I fear you will feel the comments of Andreja, Sale and myself are attacks on you, while they are not. I would however ask you to review your comments of yesterday evening, and ask yourself what you could have done differently. It would be sad if you feel there is no place for you on this blog.
Sorry for the long rant!
No no it's all right... I don't take good advice as personal attack at any time... I appreciate that you'll spoke to me tell me about it... I perhaps dragged it way too long and should've realised that the discussion with Steve Smith would be futile... I just lost my calm a little bit when words like clown and incompetent... But yes in hindsight I need not respond to such people and should ignore such comments instead of dragging on :)
DeleteI think this discussion is not helpful nor interesting. Brych is very trusted by the UEFA Refereeing Committee, as his appointments show. The same applies for Skomina, Kuipers, Çakir, Mazic and others. Period.
ReplyDeleteEach one has a unique style, one strategy to face their matches. You may like it or not, but in the end, the important thing is that they work and referees do not loose control of their games. It is nice to read a discussion about styles in a neutral way, not entering in personal disqualifications to the referee nor the fellow blogger user with whom you are discussing.
It is completely natural that we like more a referee than others given their country, their style... whatever. But it is important to keep as neutral as possible (and I'll try to apply it better to myself also) and be objective. Also, it is important not to attack anyone for his preferences, as it happens that the attacker usually has his own ones which will likely be as questionable as the one he is disrespecting. I don't know of a referee who has not had a crucial mistake in his whole career, nor a bad match. That said, if you like a certain referee, it's ok, but don't predict him for every interesting match or offer him as an option for all discussions about possible appointments because it feels tiring and it is not going to happen, specially if someone has been injured and it is known that it is very rare for a referee to come back straight to UCL after an injury.
All in all, respect is the key to a successful blog, and I think that is what we all want.
Have a good day.
That part I don't do anymore... Bringing up a name for general discussion I will do but obviously not for all games... Sometimes emotions does the better of us but at least I'm trying to modify myself :)
DeleteThanks Thomas and George for your great posts, I really appreciated them. And I must be honest, at a certain moment I wanted to delete all comments about the discussion between Steve Smith and Soham, but the problem is always the same, first of all I want to assure the freedom of speech to everybody. It is a very difficult topic, we had already many troubles in our "previous" blog, now the same. I'm not a person who likes to ban people, I would like to see always nice discussions, but surely what happened yesterday was not a good thing for this blog and surely most of the readers were more than bored.
ReplyDeleteI apologize for that, hopefully that it wont happen again.
I also apologise because I unknowingly caused trouble to everyone in the blog yesterday... I'm sorry and if everyone wishes then I can leave the blog today itself :(
DeleteOf course I don't wish that :)
DeletePlease stay with us, now you surely know how to deal with some situations.
Yes wiser than before :)
DeleteI appreciate what and how you, Andreja, George and Thomas advised me... Felt hurt by Sale's words but that's his style probably so I respect the subject matter at least :)
I believe I can deal better with some situations now :)
Soham, don't feel offended, nothing personal here. English is (obviously) not my mother tongue, so i could have chosen some other word sometimes, i'm not intentually "insulting". I was only expressing my opinion that you were all over the blog with Kuipers, Kuipers ... now enough said. Cheers!
DeleteI take it as a good advice... Nothing to feel offended... I appreciate the subject matter... All good on my part :)
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ReplyDeleteIrrati, Valeri, Orsato and Rocchi all out from appointments.
DeleteVery important days of heavy work for WC preselected officials and VARs in UAE.