The last set of referee appointments for 2020-21 UEFA Champions League Round of 16 - Second legs. Games to be played on 17 March 2021.
Referee: Daniele Orsato (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Alessandro Giallatini (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Fabiano Preti (ITA)
Fourth Official: Daniele Doveri (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Paolo Valeri (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Haim Jakov (ISR)
UEFA Delegate: Jānis Mežeckis (LVA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Haim Jakov (ISR)
UEFA Delegate: Jānis Mežeckis (LVA)
17.03.2021, 21:00 CET
Fußball Arena München, Munich (GER)
FC Bayern München (GER) - SS Lazio (ITA)
Referee: István Kovács (ROU)
Assistant Referee 1: Vasile Florin Marinescu (ROU)
Assistant Referee 2: Ovidiu Artene (ROU)
Fourth Official: Ovidiu Haţegan (ROU)
Video Assistant Referee: Pawel Gil (POL)
Video Assistant Referee: Pawel Gil (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
UEFA Referee Observer: Vladimir Šajn (SVN)
UEFA Referee Observer: Vladimir Šajn (SVN)
UEFA Delegate: Tammo Beishuizen (NED)
Another debut. We are really seeing the end of an era (and the beginning of a new one) before our eyes. The era of Brych, Çakir, Kuipers, Skomina, etc. is nearly over.
ReplyDeleteWell, the fact that Hategan is FO makes me think that the Romanian who will ref in EURO will be Kovács.
ReplyDeleteOrsato was expected IMO for this match. Irrati again VAR in UCL after last week match in Dortmund: I think that the committee considered right his evaluations.
I also have to underline that Kovács will be observed by Mr. Sajn... in case of good match will be sure appointed in EUROs.
DeleteI always wonder why some people think an appointment immediately after a controversial decision makes the decision correct. If the (wrong) decision doesn’t have much influence on the final result or media don’t make too big a fuss another appointment will be no problem. All preliminary conclusions, we’ll only find out about UEFA’s assessment when deciding appears in the RAP’s.
Deletedeciding —> decision
DeleteIs it possible to have 2 Romanians in Euro?
ReplyDeleteNormally I would say no, but with Rosetti you never know.....
Well, if both are among the best 18 referees and the general policy is to allow two referees from one country, they should both be selected.
DeleteAnd IMO, that is rather a yes than a no on this question at the moment. Kovacs' appointment now shows that UEFA trusts him - and also his GS matches were not that bad (IIRC he was replaced once). And Hategan was so much trusted in GS, that not selecting him would appear rather strange.
Romania haven't qualified, so both are practically are possible in every match (besides Hungary's?), which is a good argument in their favour. Kýros Vassáras' lobbying skills are well-known, too.
DeleteMedved' observes Karasëv, Šajn for Kovács - the difference feels important to me, UEFA see Munich as a real test for the Romanian. Unless the appointments were switched at the last minute?
Actually Mikael I had Vassaras in mind when asked that question. Surely he will be more than happy to have 2 Euro referees.
DeleteMikael, Even Romanian referees are possible for Hungary, remember the opening game in Euro2016? France-Romania with Viktor Kassai
DeleteAh yes, good point (Hațegan should be okay then, but Kovács would still be out).
DeleteNow the EURO race gets VERY interesting. As far as I can see there are twenty candidates, and assuming there will be eighteen referees (as diverse sources said), I really have no idea which two will miss out.
ReplyDeleteLet's give the arguments for each ref:
Taylor - in
Oliver - I thought in, but now?
del Cerro Grande - in
Mateu Lahoz - in
Frappart - probably in?
Turpin - in
Brych - in
Stieler - again, I thought in, but now?
Grinfeld - surely in
Orsato - in
Kuipers - in
Makkelie - in
Marciniak - in
Soares Dias - surely in
Hațegan - well...
Kovács - in? with Hațegan, without?
Karasëv - undeserved, but maybe in?
Vinčić - surely in
Skomina - well... but I think in
Çakır - in
For me, it should be easy - remove Frappart and Karasëv from this list, and there is an eighteen-strong squad.
But quite a lot of questions remain -
Will there be a (token) female ref after all?
Will the FA's / DFB's lobby be enough for two officials, despite their (planned) presence in CL KO?
Is two Romanians possible (Vassáras)?
Is Hațegan out after the nightmare in Paris?
Does the 'Slovenia/Čeferin' problem still exist?
Skomina's injury?
Is Karasëv's appointment tomorrow a test? Kovács on Wednesday?
Is Soares Dias in a 'battle' with others (SK, IK), or is he already confirmed?
Surely now we can rule out the remaining not-mentioned Elites?
Perhaps most importantly, will there be eighteen referees at all, or a different number?
We keenly wait the answers!
I think that at the end of Round of 16 in Cl and EL referees will be revealed
DeleteBetter too many options than not enough...
DeleteAnd as there are some "not so strong" candidates among them + potential injuries/illnesses, the selection should not become too difficult.
A female referee could also be the number 19 and only planned for one match, if the doubts on Frappart's ability/experience are too high. No match for a female referee would rather surprise me at the moment (although I would prefer it).
I don't think, that the English and German referees need much of a lobby, but are simply better than any referee not mentioned in your list.
Hategan didn't do much wrong in Paris (unless it was his decision to abandon the match) and was not accused of anything officially. So it would be a shame, if this would cost him the EURO. He should get a CL QF though to support his nomination.
The Slovenia problem could still exist. If it's the case I would prefer Vincic to be selected, even if Skomina recovers until the tournament. BTW, if ready, could Skomina maybe "do a Rosetti" and get a direct CL SF?
I don't think Karasev's and Kovacs appointments are real tests, otherwise some of the EL matches appear more challenging for that. However, they probably can't allow themselves a bad performance.
Soares Dias should be nearly confirmed IMO. Same for Grinfeeld, I think. And basically also for Vincic and Stieler, if not for their nationality.
And I agree, that there should not be any other candidates.
My predictions for the Euro:
DeleteLocks:
Taylor
Turpin
Brych
Orsato
Kuipers
Makkelie
del Cerro Grande
Mateu Lahoz
Çakir
Place is all but assured:
Marciniak
Grinfeld
Dias
Hategan
Vincic
On the bubble:
Kovács
Oliver
Frappart
Karasev
Zwayer
Skomina (injury concerns?)
Collum
Kulbakov
Outside looking in:
Kruzliak
Collum
Stieler
Sidiropoulos
Bastien
also Kulbakov out for me.
DeleteMy Predictions for EURO
DeleteTaylor
Del Cerro Grande
Lahoz
Turpin
Brych
Grinfeld
Orsato
Kuipers
Makkelie
Marciniak
Soares Dias
Hategan
Skomina (?)
Vincic
Cakir
Frappart
Karasev
Oliver
I am curious what's wrong with Bastien...I like him but I feel like he did not get too much trust from the committee. His appointments are not good enough either.
DeleteMy predictions are the following:
Taylor
Turpin
Brych
Orsato
Kuipers
Makkelie
del Cerro Grande
Mateu Lahoz
Çakir
Grinfeld
Dias
Hategan
Vincic
Skomina
Oliver
Karasev
Kovacs
Stieler
I like your predictions, but I would swap Karasev with Marciniak
DeleteMy prediction for Euro 2020:
DeleteA. Soares Dias
A. Mateu Lahoz
C. Del Cerro Grande
S. Frappart
C. Turpin
M: Oliver
A. Taylor
D. Makkelie
B. Kuipers
F. Brych
S. Vincic
S. Marciniak
O. Hategan
C. Cakir
O. Grenfeld
D. Orsato
1 more german referee and inmy opinion F. Zwayer is not completely ruled out. I would choose him despite of Steler
Skomina in case (I hope) he will recover
Sam, what's wrong with Bastien? Do you remember his last Europa League match in December 2020? That disaster is the answer. What he did there, no one else did at that level...
DeleteThanks Anonymous, I did not closely follow EL but I will review that match. Xabi, considering Karasev's new match in CL KO, I think he might get a chance in EURO as well.
DeleteAny news from our readers from Slovenia about Skomina?
ReplyDeleteYes please, Nobody knows what's his Current Situation. Even Slovenia federation silent about Skomina's Injury��
DeleteSkomina had knee oeration after that he had covid and after covid he had another knee operation( once meniscus once ties)
DeleteVery nice to read Kovács name in Munich, so we have the third debut in KO stage, after Grinfeld and Vincic. All three had been promoted to Elite category together and now they achieve this goal more or less at the same time. It was a good set of promotion, if you ask me, totally deserved.
ReplyDeleteAbout the Romanian situation, in my opinion Hategan is sure for EURO, his situation at moment is only because of Sovre position, he couldn't handle CL games because committee decided to appoint him rather in EL and low profile game. The fact that he is working as fourth official in Kovacs game, as I already analyzed before, is because they want to avoid other incidents like it happened with Coltescu, so it seems as Romanian refeeres without FIFA badge wont be appointed in this role at least in KO stage, also because a very important round of European competitions.
Regarding EURO selection, I think that would be very surprising to see all three (Grinfeld, Kovas and Vincic selected for EURO). I'm quite sure only about Grinfeld due to performances, it is true that Kovacs and Vincic are doing well, but about the Slovenian all is related to Skomina and about the Romanian, he didn't handle games of the same level of Grinfeld, but he is on a way. For Kovacs, it would be very surpring and early to be at EURO, for Vincic more deserved, but before him more should be known about Skomina. That's of course my point of view. No doubts that Hategan will attend EURO, in the "worst" case (for him) with another assistant referee, as it is already happening.
Also, one must analyze Sidiropoulos situation (I should also answer to a comment asking me why I think he is not good referee - but these are just opinions), with Karasev in CL and Sidiropoulos out (no games for him and it is quite impossible to think about a QF for him), there can be a clue about committee choices: the Russian seems agead than the Greek, and I would agree on that.
Frappart: no games in CL KO stage, however it was difficult for her, in case of EURO selection, she will get for sure something suitable and nothing more.
Regarding the fact that some referees are still out from this CL KO stage (and this was another question made on the blog), like Oliver and Mateu Lahoz, no doubts in these cases, in my opinion, it was only due to other reasons, they will attend EURO because they have experience. I don't have doubts about Oliver as well, but surely the consideration by committee at the tournament will be higher for Taylor, at moment ranked as nr. 1.
The question was about names like Sidiropoulos and Karasev, they had to get a CL game right now, to justify the possible calls, but if we talk about experienced officials, there is no doubts that they will go to EURO.
Last but not least, for the same reasons, I think that Zwaywer is still a candidate for EURO, even without CL big assignments in recent tims, but again I have a question for you, was the German so worse that Karasev and Sidiropoulos in recent times? For me surely not... so under this point of view, being harsh about his selection would be not consistent by committee. True that he did many mistakes, but other referees were not that different...
Also, I was asked about Orsato: is he the best referee in UEFA at moment? My answer is not, I like him as top class referee for what he has managed in serie A over the years, especially some seasons ago, but in UEFA games he never reached the same level (this was the reason for which one year ago many people attacked his appointment as CL final referee). In UEFA a very good referee, but not a real top, like Rocchi was. My opinion, there are for sure better names who have also more experience than the Italian, but, first of all, are more able to handle international players, as they do in domestic leagues.
I may be wrong, but my gut feeling is that Kovacs is being looked at as a possible replacement of Hategan due to UEFA's PR policy to preserve their image and not bring to Euro a name that was involved in a scandal. It is a huge difference between his appointments before and after the Paris incidents, which must have a reason.
DeleteStieler and Soares Dias also had their debuts in this KO stage.
DeleteYou can be right but I would tend to exclude that, because Hategan did nothing, he hasn't any single accusation, would be very, very shocking to remove him from EURO only for "PR policy".
DeleteIMO Hategan will definitely go to EURO. He should be there. If they put him out of EURO just because a situation that he did nothing, it would be a scandal.
DeletePlease remember that we cannot talk about his "removal", since he was not even selected. I hope he will be selected, but his treatment after PSG raises big questions.
DeleteOutside refereeing circles, what would be more concerning for UEFA: to appoint a referee involved (as part of his team) in a Champions League scandal that went in the media around the world OR to select another referee who did not get media attention?
OT
ReplyDeleteWhere can category 3, 2 and 1 referees be allocated at this pandemic moment?
VAR; AVAR and FO in international european competitions and in domestic leagues for sure
DeleteSorry for my word choice but what a phantom penalty awarded for Huesca by Cordero Vega (Var Melero Lopez). This absolutely a joke, no words for this. It is a shame!!!
ReplyDeleteI completely agree, but he should have cautioned some Barça player or even Koeman, they complained in a very gesticulating way and Cordero looked hopeless and with 0 authority, not a great look at all for a referee.
DeleteSorry, but the dissent really is of secondary importance in this scene. I cannot agree more with Timo! I don’t like to use very strong words, but this penalty given and not corrected by VAR is rarely seen and beyond comprehension.......
Delete3-1 now, luckily that decision will not affect the outcome of the match, but Cordero looks completely lost and very nervous and unsure on the pitch, he's not whistling anything and letting everything go...
DeleteI hope he can get a little bit more calm now and gain focus again.
Is there any video ?
Delete"he's not whistling anything and letting everything go..."
DeleteAs he usually does :) One of the most passive LaLiga referees. To be honest, there is no good candidate to become next FIFA referee from the current crew. Maybe Isidro Díaz as the youngest with quite big potential? But only after one season?
https://twitter.com/zs_voetbal/status/1371566612013182979?s=24
DeleteI hope this Twitter link from the Netherlands works
I am really looking close at cordero Vega since a long time, because i enjoy watching his style of refereeing. So, call me a little fan. that is why I am really disappointed by this performance today, particular the penalty for huesca. But in general I think he is a good ref and i will tell you why: He is very fit, and so very near to the action always. You can also see this on the penalty given tonight (Probably that makes the decision even more stranger). And I know what you mean when you call him passive. But I prefer this lenient style much more than other refs in Spain which really whistle everything (for example pablo fuertes this weekend, that game could not go on for more than 20 seconds, altohug it was a really calm game) That is also why the players in Spain are so theatrical if you compare with the Bundesliga for example (just my point of view). I also like that he is always very calm, not getting angry himself. One good example is showing the red card for a soler because of offending in a very hot game this season. So I know that it is just my opinion, but I am really happy to see la liga refs that not react to the theatralic players in La Liga
DeleteAnonymous: if you say "no good candidate for become next fifa referee" what is about alberola rojas? He is very young and since a relatively long time in la liga already. IS he not seen as a candidate in Spain?
Deleteis
DeleteHe definitely is, I'm 100% sure he will become a FIFA referee, but it seems the Committee is trying to protect him a little bit, he emerged like a rocket at the beginning and now seems to have stagnated a bit but he will surely rebounce.
DeleteHe's quite charismatic and is very highly regarded by players and fans, as his athleticism is fantastic and he has a natural "swag" (even arrogance I would say sometimes) that makes him very noticeably.
He's quite the poster boy to be honest, the paradigm of a modern referee.
To be honest I also like quite a lot Cordero Vega for the same reasons you just listed Anonymous, I also prefer more "fluid" matches as spectator, but the problem I see with that "Mateu" style is that he has not the same charisma and players management that Mateu has (probably TOP-3 in the world in that aspect) to back up that.
DeleteAnd when a match turns ugly or heated he can lost it and things can get nasty...
But in general I regard him as a good and reliable referee.
Totally agree. Probably Alberola Rojas will be FIFA in 2022. Is the best option in spain. All suporters and player support him.
DeleteAgree with Alberola Rojas FIFA.
DeleteMaybe they support him but I watched several games involving him and was never impressed. Poor decision making (obvious fouls and cards missed) is my biggest "but" but I also missed prevention in his games. But yes, he always was and still is a candidate to become a FIFA-listed referee. Maybe it's time for him due to lack of other options but in my opinion he is not in a good moment of his career and still not ready to reach something in UEFA.
DeleteIt's easy to put the referee on the FIFA list but being a great athlete is not everything. See Mads Kristoffersen from Denmark, another great athlete, who was pushed because of that but he failed to offer decision making and management skills to back up his great fitness.
We should remember that the best referees don't have to look like a robocop in order to control games and make good decisions. Every referee starting from second group on is extremely fit and it's enough if you are simply good, don't make frequent mistakes, have no deficiencies in prevention, anticipation, managing the players, etc. And exactly the latter skills I miss in Alberola Rojas' munition.
@Anonymous at 23:33
I get your point as you and many others want to see a football and not a comedy on the field of play and Cordero Vega simply doesn't buy all those tricks but my point is that he also does nothing to warn the players involved, to sell the decisions, to make his approach clear to everyone in the stands and in front of TV. He simply doesn't react and nothing follows. From what I observed, he has severe lacks in management skills and simply can't be different. But I observe such passivity more and more nowadays. I don't know what is the reason but even in UEFA elite / first categories we don't have so many great managers who can spend a good warning at appropriate moment of the game.
Quilava could answer your question, he's really knowledgeable about it, I'm curious about their opinion about possible candidates for promotion to La Liga, I'm not watching any Segunda matches this year so I cannot give any legitimate opinion.
ReplyDeleteI would demote Melero López to be honest, he's quite error prone and don't seem to have evolve in any way after quite a lot of seasons.
Agree, Melero López seems (since last summer tbh) #1 candidate for demotion.
DeleteI think that promotion from Segunda to LaLiga is pretty open this year with so many valuable candidates and options, e.g:
-Miguel Ángel Ortiz Arias (1984, my #1 candidate, he's like a clone of Del Cerro Grande, both are even from the same village - Alcalá de Henares, a suburb of Madrid)
-José Antonio López Toca (1982, first substitute for promotion last year)
-Rubén Ávalos Barrera (1987, second substitute for promotion last year)
-Alejandro Muñiz Ruiz (1991, last year was given the Guruceta trophy)
-Juan Luis Pulido Santana (1983)
-Dámaso Arcediano Monescillo (1984, in Segunda since 2011 and considered a very big talent, but he was surpassed by Alberola Rojas first in 2017 and last year he had a good shot but RFEF chose Díaz de Mera Escuderos, all these referees are from the same region so he's a bit unlikely to be promoted for the sake of 'territorial balance')
-Aitor Gorostegui Fernández-Ortega (first substitute for promotion in 2017 and 2018)
Ironically, my two favourite referees from Segunda are not in my promotion candidates list because they are in their second and first season in the category respectively: Iosu Galech Apezteguía (1990) and specially Francisco José Hernández Maeso (1988), who IMO should have been promoted to Segunda since at least 4 years ago and not last year, very good referee.
Now with no age limit would be anyway 2 demotions? I think scrap the age limit is a good decision but it does affect the promotions, because I think Avalos Barrera would otherwise have taken Estrada spotafter retirement as he's also catalan and Catalan FA has a lot of political power in RFEF.
DeleteWell, I would like to open a debate now that I see so many comments regarding spanish refereeing tonight. Does anyone else think that Velasco Carballo is not capable for the job he's supposed to do?
ReplyDeleteYou mean too many mistakes in Primera? If yes, we could observe that surprisingly most federations using VAR have problems with setting the threshold for intervention. I don't get it to be honest as for my taste it should be simply like that: "I call the referee for OFR if I think he will change his decision after seeing replays". I am even more surprised that all head of referees are former referees who surely know which decision is optimal. I think that apart learning how it works technically, there should be 1, max 2 courses for VAR about when an intervention is required. Then, everything should work on a commonsensical level. But people usually have tendencies to overcomplicate things and tend to be too sticked to procedures instead of their own thinking abilities. I know, quite unpopular view, but I see it like that :)
DeleteI think he has good intentions and is doing a good work overall but I think he lacks a little bit of charisma and he's not able "to sell" or even explain the good measures taken to the public.
DeleteMedia are to blame here because the most part of it are dinosaurs without any knowledge about refereeing or LOTG that always rely in "hot takes" and controversial points of view to try to stay relevant, but it is true that Velasco's conferences (a great measure of transparency by the way, Sánchez Arminio days are fortunately gone) are not convincing at all, in my opinion it seems as is there almost no self-criticism and he always shields himself in that "97% of decisions taken by our referees are correct" that always ends up being the headline in the media, not making himself very popular...
The use of VAR is another subject that we could write for hours... Clos Gómez is the key man there, but I think the problem here is that as we know, there are 2 very big clubs here, and their matches are scrutinized very carefully and when some decision that VAR intervenes does not please any of them their media lackeys start to shout and create controversy disregarding VAR, anybody remembers "Todo OK Jose Luis?".
In my taste the threshold should be a lot higher, and the with the hands... it's a circus, but not here, everywhere, the fans and players we cannot know when a hand is punishable or not, but that's not Velasco's fault.
"I call the referee for OFR if I think he will change his decision after seeing replays"
DeleteThat's also the most sensible approach IMO, but it's not that easy, because:
- it's not what the VAR protocol says, i.e. it would require a change by IFAB
- it's still possible that the VAR has a different opinion (than the referee and/or than most of the viewers/experts), because
-- there are a lot of grey areas, so there are often arguments for both decisions
-- he still is a human, who sometimes makes wrong assessments, which are not really explainable
But still better and clearer than the current approach (with the concepts of "clear and obvious" and "missed incident" and on paper also "referee just wants to see it himself" - where it's sometimes hard to understand why the VAR did (not) intervene).
Not only too many mistakes in Primera, I think they are more or less the same as a few years ago. It is the failure to acknowledge them, the self-complacency that Del Cerro the best has stated in his post, the disgusting (sorry, I can't find another word to describe them) press conferences in which many numbers are shown without justification (9 errors in the penalty area in the whole season? I don't think anyone can believe that. IMO, just this weekend we have had 3 at least mistakes in the penalty area that were not corrected by VAR.
DeleteHe talks about transparency but then doesn't publish the list at the end of the season and said in the last press conference that they will do as they please regarding promotions and demotions. Do we know what really happened with Noval Font last season? Was he demoted based on sporting merits or just because that photo on holidays with some players? Was he really the worst AR in LaLiga? Was it because he refused to referee in the last part of the season due to his job? Was he really denied the inscription in Second Division as he claimed? We know nothing about this, and even if the decisions of CTA were right, the lack of transparency makes them seem wrong and abuse of power.
I start to think that refereeing in Spain is in the same spot regarding everything (but VAR, of course) that it was with Sánchez Arminio. Yes, we have press conferences in the referees who talk can't say too much, and the CTA doesn't either, so it is just an illusion of transparency that ends in a decrease of public confidence and credibility.
I think that at the very least, at the end of the season or at the beginning of the following one they should publish a RAP with all the errors they accounted for and some other unclear situations giving the explanations for the decisions they made on them. Showing 4 handball videos with very evident right decisions doesn't really help with education, which is probably the best way to educate the people and media. Self-criticism is accepting your errors, not hiding them behind a barrier of numbers.
OT: Some info re. Euro U21 provided by CTA-RFEF.
ReplyDeleteThe 12 trios and 4 FOs have been divided so that half of them officiate only in Slovenia and the other half only in Hungary. This is how:
Hungary (Groups A&C):
-Lawrence Visser (BEL)
-Irfan Peljto (BIH)
-Ricardo de Burgos Bengoetxea (ESP)
-Maurizio Mariani (ITA)
-Sandro Schärer (SUI)
-Halil Umut Meler (TUR)
Support referees: Ádám Farkas (HUN) & Espen Eskås (NOR)
Slovenia (Groups B&D):
-François Letexier (FRA)
-Giorgi Kruashvili (GEO)
-Harm Osmers (GER)
-Dennis Higler (NED)
-Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
-Glenn Nyberg (SWE)
Support referees: Rade Obrenovic (SVN) & Horatiu Fesnic (ROU)
"Hungarian" group is much stronger. Weird allocation by UEFA.
DeleteBut most allocations were forced or at least very sensible due to avoid clashes with the teams from their country or countries with strong relations.
DeleteI think, only Visser, Meler and Frankowski were sensible for both parts.
(Peljto not with CRO and SVN, Kruashvili not with RUS, Nyberg not with DEN and ISL - I know, those are not all strictly forbidden, but often avoided)
Furthermore 2 out of 3 referees with CL experience are in Slovenia.
2:2 about CL experience. Schärer, Meler v Letexier, Frankowski.
DeleteA bit OT, but according to bosnian media, Peljto got a grade 7.4 for the performance in Velež-Borac Bl. If it is true and becomes confirmed by the commitee, it could mean that he will officiate U21 EURO while suspended domestically. :/
Delete@Forlan: do they have bans if you dont reach a specific mark?
DeleteI guess it depends on each national commitee,there is a long meeting yesterday and today in which they will come up with the conclusion. I know that in Croatia in general 7.6 means at least 4-6 rounds "break". And 7.4 is really a poor mark for a referee.
DeleteParticular situation in Women's Champions League game PSG - Sparta Praha, after the first leg ended 5-0 for PSG at home, the second leg has been annulled due to some cases of Covid in French team, so a 3-0 in favor of Sparta Praha has been awarded. As result, PSG is qualified with an aggregate score of 5-3. In my opinion this doesn't make sense, because Czech team could have had the chance to qualify. So if a team wins a game more than 3-0 and then they retire from second leg, in all UEFA competitions, it seems as they are qualified because the score will be always 0-3? It should be changed, because this doesn't give any chance to opponent to try a comeback.
ReplyDeleteI don't find the sense, to be honest.
LOL, I once did something similar playing FIFA (winning 1st leg for huge margin, then losing 2nd leg with a bigger comeback so I got 5 of my players red carded in order to lose 3-0 and advance) XD
DeleteI agree, Chefren, it sets a bad precedent. Maybe if Sparta accepted that it could be justifiable, but otherwise it's not fair. I think however that it is something exceptional that could not happen under other circumstances. I expect that if a team who wins by a margin greater than 3 and decides not to play the return leg, they are expelled from the competition and a penalty is applied (possibly a ban for a period of time).
DeleteThis is exactly what happens if a team decides not to play... according to uefa rules for example, aside the other team being awarded the win 3-0 the other team is disqualified from the competition, pays a fine and be suspended from Uefa competition for up to 2 years depending on the severity of the crime, while for league matches asides from the other team awarded the win, there is usually hefty point deduction and many more sanctions. Most Football authorities are well aware of such situations and have rules in place to curb any of such happening but because this is COVID related issue there was an agreement put in place by all Associations at the beginning of all seasons incase there is a case where a match cannot go ahead and it is a knockout competition and that was what happened to Tottenham in the league cup this season and they qualified while the other team who could not play because of the COVID related issues
DeleteYeah, that doesn’t make sense. If a forfeit needs to be assessed in a two-legged tie, the whole tie should be forfeited, not just one of the legs.
DeleteMakes perfect sense. Forfeit = 3-0 for that particular game. Nothing else.
DeleteIt reminds me of Legia-Celtic tie in 2014/15 UCL Q3. Legia won the first game (at home) 4:1, then the second game was forfeited and Celtic won on 'away goals'.
DeleteIf this is how it works for UEFA, someone should have told PSG about this loophole in 2017, would've been a lot better for them if they knew they could refuse to play the second leg and yet progress anyways!
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ReplyDeletePossible penalty and maybe RC...
ReplyDeleteFor me not enough
DeleteOooooh, that should’ve been a PK IMO.
ReplyDeleteAnd YC because attacker wasn’t in possession of the ball.
DeleteFor me absolutely no foul
DeleteNot a clear holding, and touching your opponent's stomach is not a foul per se - so clearly nothing for the VAR.
DeleteHowever I assume, that a penalty also would have been supported.
I agree with Anonymous because the player went down too easily and the contact was really so marginal! I didn't understand the penalty of Bayern Munich! I would like to see it better :)
DeleteI’m really in trouble when comparing the PSG penalty last week with the penalty not awarded a few moments ago. The first being completely accidental and attacker without any chance to challenge for the ball, the latter a clearly deliberate action (because defender mishit the ball) and still a possibility to challenge for the ball.
DeleteFor me this was far more of a penalty than the one awarded to PSG.
IMO the intention of the defender is enough for a foul. I think that, if the attacker had been in possession of the ball, everyone would’ve whistled PK + RC. The only difference should be in the disciplinary sanction. Just my opinion :)
DeleteBTW, correct from VAR to support IMO.
Agree with Anonymous 2144.
DeleteNot enough for a VAR intervention (correct by Irrati to support) and in my opinion correct to play on by Orsato, too soft to call a foul.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile I think that Kovacs whistled a correct penalty for holding, nobody expected that. Some protests, but absolutely corect by VAR to support.
I want to review the PK given by Kovacs but I noticed that he was right in front so I'm sure he saw great and I trust the decision blindly! I agree with you regarding the Orsato's decision
Delete@Cheferen, I fully respect your opinion and understand that Orsato is also Italian, but please be objective with evaluation of referees. It is crystal clear penalty in favour of Athletico, intension of defender to stop attacker, clear holding! Im sure if it was not Orsato, but another young referee, you will destroy this referee. You blog read a lot of referees and observer. BE HONEST, PLEASE!
DeleteFor me the PK a bit weak, but... a 50/50 decision.
ReplyDeleteI'm slightly surprised, that the majority here says no PK. A mistake by the defender, a cynical hold to make up for it. I would be ok with YC, because we don't know 100% if the attacker would have got there before the keeper.
DeleteI will have to check if the holding was outside though.
DeleteJust rewatched the scene and it’s extremely tight but the holding stops a fraction inside the box
DeleteBritish pundits and ex ref Peter Walton believing it was a penalty. Have to say I agree, clear intent to pull, no matter how minimal that pull is
ReplyDeleteI don't think it should have been a penalty, the holding was just outside.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure a referee like Marco Rodríguez would have whistled instantly and issued a RC. I would say it was more of a foul than not, but I guess Orsato decided it wasn't enough for RC / penalty (in such a game).
There are merits to that, indeed, but I think this approach to modern refereeing confuses more than enlightens normal spectators. At least on English television everybody expected a foul.
Btw in the mid-part of the 1H (after that incident) Orsato actually struggled a bit, without clear ideas for when to kill play with a whistle and when to give the go on. But everything seemed under control by the HT whistle.
For anyone who says that controlled anger should be avoided in (elite) refereeing - please watch the head injury management at 66' by Orsato. Excellently communicated by the Italian ref.
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree. Especially as it is fits well to his general style (more angry than friendly).
DeleteViolent conduct spotted by Orsato, this was not easy to see, and not all referees would have taken this decision. One can even have the doubt about VAR intervention in case of missed incident. Classic situation in which the real intention of the player is hidden by a certain malice. Totally spot on.
ReplyDeleteI agree! Even if the contact was a little light it was a completely intentional elbow and with the sole purpose of hurting! Orsato, even if he is not in a period of great form, is doing an excellent performance imho!
DeleteI think it would not be obligatory VAR intervention, and that realistically there wasnt too much harm done by the move. For me much more dirty than violent, but still in this kind of situations one cant really defend the offender and feel sorry for him. Well spotted by Orsato regardless.
DeleteThat's not violent conduct. The force is reckless. Intent has no effect on the outcome of the card. It's a reckless elbow. Yellow card. Violent conduct says nothing about intent. It has to be excessive force, brutality or endangering the safety. It was neither.
DeleteI will rephrase:
Delete@Anonymous - when a player is not challenging for the ball, there is no reason to use force against their opponents, much less deliberately elbow them into the chest. Any force used in these circumstances can easily cross into excessive territory, because no force is required at all (there is no reason to challenge or get physically involved with other players). Furthermore, there was clear malice as the player waited for play to leave the area before striking, which signals that brutality (physical violence) was used.
This is always up to the interpretation of the referee, but in my opinion, it sends a bad message to allow players to use free, deliberate physical contact off the ball to intimidate or hurt their opponents.
That’s a quite theoretical approach of this topic. Do UEFA RAP videos support this approach with regard to VC?
DeleteThen extrapolating this approach to the penalty situation in the first half one can easily argue that “no single holding movement of the defender towards the attacker was needed”, so a penalty would have been appropriate.
To be clear, I don’t really have a problem with the RC (though IMO not according to UEFA’s guidelines), but in combination with not awarding the PK to Atletico... Not top level refereeing if you ask me.
I would agree with your parallel to the penalty situation - there is indeed no reason for the defender to hold. However, because we're not talking about deliberate physical violence, then the question becomes whether the attacker lost their opportunity to play the ball due to the contact.
DeleteIt seems to me that a majority of people are leaning towards the attacker falling too easily (and therefore not 100% due to the defender's action). It can be argued either way - but the point stands that we are not asking the same question here.
I will try to find a clip supporting this in one of the RAPs and will post if I do find something.
Perfect decision by Orsato. In that crowd, to see that VC live is very difficult. Bravo!
ReplyDeleteSpot on RC by Orsato, very difficult to detect. Well done !
ReplyDeleteBravo, Orsato!! Very good job tonight
ReplyDeleteKovacs without big mistakes, but without a clear line and struggling with foul detection. I am not at all convinced.
ReplyDeleteWow! How Orsato or Preti detected that violent conduct is something outstanding! World class! The Italians were simply faultless tonight, getting every single decision correct, managing the game and players extremely well.
ReplyDeleteWell in many regards (especially in the 2H) that was a real masterclass by Daniele Orsato. VC call was excellent. In ten/twenty years time, I think we will miss referees natural as him.
ReplyDeleteHowever, we are left with this incident at 26'. I don't think it's black-white as the people on English television are making out, but I'm not sure I agree with the consensus here that it "wasn't enough".
I'd say it was a 70-30 foul. In not giving it, Orsato earns the ire of our football experts. But, if he had have blown, the only ensuing option was RC (it's nonsensical to say this is anything other than DOGSO IMO), and then look at the reaction which Stieler got for his RC.
So, tricky. Bigger-picture refereeing leans towards his play on call I suppose. In general though - it was a pleasure to watch Orsato this evening.
Good performance by Orsato tonight. If we want to be annoying he has struggled a bit in the middle of 1H, therefore he has maintained the game under control from the beginning until the final whistle.
ReplyDeleteIMO he will be backed concerning the possible penalty incident(s) in 1H (good no VAR interventions too, even if I'm slightly favorable to a PK in the Carrasco's situation) and the cards shown were justified.
My special compliments regarding the VC call, hard to detect live, very well done !
8.4 area in my book.
Crucial incident in penalty area, IMO it is clear penalty:
Deletehttps://t.me/REF_EX/252
Very good performance by Orsato IMO. The penalty appeal in the first half is a very high risk by Azpilicueta, but the contact was soft and the attacker fell too easily. Play on was correct for me. The VC was superbly spotted!!
ReplyDeleteI am proud of Orsato! He's regaining the practically perfect physical shape he had a few months ago!
ReplyDeletePotential MI case on the penalty by Kovács. He booked Acerbi, but the holding foul was committed by Muriqi. Of course, it could have been for dissent, but such holding incidents usually get carded...
ReplyDeleteNope, he booked Acerbi for protesting.
DeleteOn the no-PK decision in Orsato's game, I think he made the more correct decision. The hold does not impede or slow down the attacker at all, in my opinion. I don't think it would have been totally wrong if it was given either (not a clear error either way), but I think no call is more correct.
ReplyDeleteThe initial contact may have occurred outside the area, but replays showed it continued into the 18-yard box - giving Atleti every reason to feel aggrieved, especially considering it was NOT checked by VAR.
DeleteIn this day and age, I don't know why it hasn't gone to VAR to have a look at it.
Var checks all those and he obviously told orsato check complete
DeleteHighlights of Istvan Kovacs' performance in Bayern Munich - Lazio
ReplyDeletehttps://ok.ru/video/2760455359084
Video of Kovacs penalty https://t.me/REF_EX/257
DeleteSome video situation from the TOP match in Russia CSKA-Zenit:
ReplyDeletehttps://t.me/REF_EX/259
https://t.me/REF_EX/260
Highlights of Sergey Karasyov's performance in Manchester City - Borussia Mönchengladbach
ReplyDeletehttps://ok.ru/video/2760768621164
Thanks for the videos!
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