Wednesday, 16 March 2022

Champions League 2021/22 - Referee Appointments - Round of 16 (Second Leg, IV)

Last set of referee appointments for Champions League's Round of 16 second legs.



16 March 2022

21:00 CET - Turin (Juventus Stadium) 
Juventus (ITA) - Villarreal CF (ESP)
Referee: Szymon Marciniak (POL)
Assistant Referee 1: Paweł Sokolnicki (POL)
Assistant Referee 2: Tomasz Listkiewicz (POL)
Fourth Official: Paweł Raczkowski (POL)
Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
UEFA Referee Observer: Björn Kuipers (NED)
UEFA Delegate: Jacques Antenen (SUI)  
UEFA Referee Liaison Officer: Massimo Ramy Younes (ITA) 

21:00 CET - Villeneuve d'Ascq (Stade Pierre Mauroy)
LOSC Lille (FRA) - Chelsea FC (ENG)
Referee: Davide Massa (ITA) 
Assistant Referee 1: Filippo Meli (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Stefano Alassio (ITA) 
Fourth Official: Luca Pairetto (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Maurizio Mariani (ITA) 
UEFA Referee Observer: Herbert Ernst Fandel (GER) 
UEFA Delegate: Georges Lüchinger (LIE) 
UEFA Referee Liaison Officer: Laurent Delchambre (FRA)

109 comments:

  1. Yeah. The Italian privilege continues. Credibility of Rosetti has dropped to below zero... Kovacs would have been the so much better choice here

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    1. Well, it is obvious that Rosetti makes mainly political decisions...

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  2. Interesting that Anthony Taylor hasn't got a round of 16 game, could they be saving him for a final either in the conference league or europa league?

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  3. I'm surprised about Taylor's exclusion by R16; I guess that he is saved for other main important matches like as WC play off and QF CL, even if with so many english teams he could also be ruled out from QF CL. It would be a pity, for this reason I would appoint him for a medium profile match in the R16 CL. Both Marciniak and Massa are observed by member committee (let's consider Fandel still in). Maybe for Marciniak there is an idea to appoint him in EL final, as I wish, while for Massa it is an important test to check his robustness

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    1. Totally agree regarding Taylor. Even if one wants to keep him away from Italian teams, there still was Ajax-Benfica (dCG in Munich and Turpin in Turin would have been a logical alteration).

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    2. Exactly, this time I am unhappy with the appointments. Poor management imo. Philipp's explained above, and I agree: this appointments are better than the actual ones.

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    3. Perhaps there are some reasons that we don't know. I respect a lot Rosetti's job, I think he is doing well. The level of the refereeing in Champions is very high IMO

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  4. This time very difficult to guess these names!
    The appointment of Massa directly for a CL KO game "deletes" all the previous reasoning, he was planned for this game, that is absolutely good for a new Elite. The problem is that the appointment is announced today, a day after the big discussions for Torino - Inter with him involved as VAR. He will be blamed on Italian media and people will be shocked (they don't know how it works, of course) for this assignment.
    Marciniak in Turin continues with Italian teams, after Milan in GS and Inter in KO stage. In particular, Juventus didn't have a good memory of him after Tottenham - Juventus of some years ago and I'm happy that Rosetti and committee didn't care about that, however one could still say that all big names are assigned to Italian teams differently from other nations' teams, and that's at moment true.
    Marciniak very strong candidate now for EL, maybe first name.
    Taylor is in my opinion kept for indeed the final of WC play off, that could be Italy - Portugal, committe didn't want to risk any name before for this delicate clash.
    What I don't understand is Kovacs without a game, unless a quarterfinal is planned for him, but rather impossible, after the excellent path and Barcellona - Napoli, I would have expected him in CL at least for a KO game.

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    1. Strange that Rosetti pays so much attention to Italian teams in Champions League and so little to Italian teams in Europa League (Lazio-Porto above all, ruined by the modest Aytekin).

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    2. Italian media are right when they are shocked. Kovacs and taylor without a game but one of Rosettis mediocre compatriots gets a CL KO game based on almost nothing except that italy "needs" new elites when they dont have anybody capable yet besides orsato....

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    3. After not being chosen for CL R16, I think, that Kovacs' status is lower than we assumed after Barca-Napoli. So I now think, he will clearly stay behind Hategan regarding further matches in this season and also regarding the WC (if that was ever a question).

      Appointing a new Elite referee in Lille makes some sense, because it is useful, that they get the KO experience for their development. Whether Massa is the most deserving name for that can be discussed, I would have seen at least Schärer as more likely.
      Also still strange, that Massa was not used in the previous EL stage. For every other referee in the CL R16 2nd leg, it is their second European appointment in 2022.

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    4. How could you compare Schaerer (33 yo) who officiates in Swiss League with Massa (40 yo) who has been officiating Serie A games for years. Probably Schaerer has more talent, but in terms of experience, all these refs from minor federations cannot be compared with those coming from top countries.

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    5. As discussed on other threads, it was mentioned in some of the news in Turkish media that Cakir had a game in CL this Wednesday. I doubt that it was an Italian team.
      Later, it was mentioned that his game is taken away after the mayhem in Turkish refereeing. So, if that's the case, Massa might be a last minute replacement for Cakir.

      We don't know the exact rationale for this assignment. But last minute replacement sounds logical. I don't know what you think guys. Or if there is way to confirm it from other channels :)

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    6. Even if there was a last minute replacement we would still have many other more deserving options (Scharer, Taylor Kovacs) to name minimal 3.

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    7. @icedteatower

      Are you from Romania (or from Hungary) ? I am asking because it seems you are a big fan of Istvan Kovacs. I will answer here at some of your posts.

      1. Yesterday, in the previous post, I saw that you wrote: ”I think even Romania could get 2 if UEFA thinks more about "regeneration" and avoid conflict (Oliver is still young too)”

      It's impossible for Romania to have 2 referees at WC 2022. Probably it won't be possible even for England (despite the fact that is totally unfair that one Taylor or Oliver will have stay at home). By the way, Kovacs is only one year older than Oliver (1985 vs 1984)

      2. ”I think DCG, Gil Manzano, Oliver, even Kovacs are on the same level now”

      Imo Oliver is a top referee. He whistle in Premier League since 2010 (hundreds of games already). When I saw him in his first season of Premier League I told myself: ”this one will be one of the very best european referees for many, many years”. Last year Oliver got a quarter-final in EURO 2020.

      Honestly, it's a bad joke to compare Oliver with Kovacs (or even with Gil Manzano or Cerro Grande).

      3. As a romanian I hope very much that Romania will have a referee at a World Cup (after 36 years). But only Hategan has (real) chances.

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    8. As far as I know, there stand-by referees in case of a need for a replacement. (may be Chefren or other experienced friends can provide details about the process)

      May be Massa was Plan B :)

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    9. But if he was a stand-by referee, Massa possibly wouldn't have got a game again, although being available.
      So if he was a replacement for Cakir, I think, it's more likely that someone else is replacing Massa in EL.

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    10. Do not forget that Kovacs was only appointed to last year's Euro (as second Romanian referee) after Marciniak's medical problems prevented him from being selected.

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  5. Yes agree Chefren. At first I was quite surprised that Taylor is not appointed to any '16 CL game. The purpose however is very clear. He will be in charge of the WC play-off final 'C' (Turkey/Portugal - Italy/North Macedonia). Any mistake in CL - by him or VAR - can lead to a lot media attention. Something that committee wants to avoid.

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    1. Taylor looks like Jhonny Sins. That`s why he should be the referee in HOT MATCHES. Like portakal vs italy in Play-Off

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  6. Taylor is one middling referee.

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  7. OT: If Taylor gets the WC play-off final (path C), who do we expect for the finals in A & B?

    Orsato, Turpin, Lahoz, Makkelie or Marciniak come to mind.

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    1. Yes, the usual suspects. Probably also Vincic in the list of candidates. Also some chances for Hategan and Siebert, I think. And possibly one of the other Spanish referees or Oliver.

      Also the play-off semifinals are equally important, I think, and have the same candidates.
      BTW, the path A final is not played in March, so some things could change until then.

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    2. There will be only two play-off finals in march (games Scotland- Ukraine is postponed): Portugal/Turkey- Italy/North Macedonia and Poland- Sweden/ Czech Republic.

      Taylor should be the referee in Porto (Portugal- Italy). For the game in Chorzow I expect Orsato or Lahoz (I will exclude Makellie from the play-offs after the game Real- PSG, for me it was clear foul on Donnarumma).

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    3. A 'clear' foul. Lol. :D

      Turn it around please. If a referee gives a penalty kick for a small contact like that, the world would be mad as hell. :)

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    4. @ Philipp: yes, Siebert, Vincic and Oliver definitely candidates for a WC play-off Semi.

      Turpin got a not-so high profile game in '16 CL. That could indicate a Final or one of the big semi's in path C.

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  8. Kulbakou, Aytekin, Stieler, Sidiropoulos, Grinfeld, Collum, Kružliak, Dias, they were never Elite.

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  9. Who is VAR and who is AVAR in Turin?

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    1. Kwiatkowski is VAR, Frankowski is AVAR.

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    2. Ok, it is a little mistake above, needs to be corrected.

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  10. At the World Cup playoffs, will the fourth official also be an elite referee?

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    1. Last time (in 2017), this wasn't the case for all games The 4th officials back then were Kovacs (1st), Banti (1st), Göcek (1st), Jovanovic (2nd), Zwayer (Elite), Makkelie (Elite), Gil Manzano (1st) and Raczkowski (1st) for the UEFA play-offs - all from the same country as the referee.

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  11. Massa is obviously cakir replacement. Good chance for him to progress. A little bit poker for the committee but i hope it comes good if not they can still blame turkish federation.

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  12. I am not surprised by Massa's appointment. However, I would have expected Kuipers to observe a new Elite referee rather than "old acquaintance" Marciniak.
    Peter/Vienna

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  13. I'm extremely curious to know how the WC qualification for OFC region will be carried on ? Do you have news on the referees ? Qualification round will start in 2 days ? Do you if OFC referees have been appointed ? Did they travelled and stay in Qatar ? How many ?

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    1. Hi,
      OFC referees left Oceania for Qatar early this week. They will use mixed OFC officials with some AFC officials with each OFC referees 'guaranteed' 2 referee appointments each. VAR will operate 'offline' for a couple of matches with the final having a fully operational VAR. They will use non-OFC officials as VAR since none of us are fully VAR trained.

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    2. Thanks you very much for your reply; very interesting because OFC world is very far from us, so very often unknown but fascinating. If you could share more details on private I can send you my personal mail

      Delete
  14. Many say even Orsato isn’t as good as he is rated

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  15. In Polish football now is a big discussion about yesterday Kwiatkowski's controversial performance (VAR: Frankowski).

    And today both are chosen to CL KO stage match, this looks strange in eyes usual fan (I know that appointments are made before).

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  16. Yes, we know many are incompetent, no need to be reminded.

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  17. Danny Makkelie Ajax - Feyenoord

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    1. 4th official vd Eijk. VAR Ruperti

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    2. Van Egmond is becoming the dutch Rosetti. If makkelie gets injured we get the incapable Van der Eijk in charge. The only 2 worse options would be Kooij or S. Mulder who fortunately has been out for long time now. Nijhuis and V. Boekel out again. V. Egmond should resign and give room for sb else.

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    3. My goodness, the hatred expressed by some Dutch readers lately… The negativity… It seems as if I’m reading the blog version of tabloid De Telegraaf. A shame, I thought this blog should excel in constructive content.

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    4. @ Anonymous 2: Agree. Very annoying.

      @ Anonymous 1: Your comment is complete nonsense. Just analyse the appointments during this season and the ‘order’ is very clear if you ask me:
      1. Makkelie 2. Gozubuyuk 3. Higler 4. Lindhout / Nijhuis 5. Van Boekel.

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    5. Not only on this blog, but in general a lot of negativity about refereeing in the Netherlands last weeks. Every small (possible) mistake is being highlighted as a dramatic decision and everyone's talking about the 'low level' of Dutch refereeing.
      It's making me kind of angry everytime I read about it and it doesn't seem like this negativity is going to end the coming time

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    6. The same in Poland. An imo fully supportable decision in Wisła Kraków - Lech Poznań is used to blame referees and referees committee, even by former referees. Disgusting.

      https://twitter.com/CANALPLUS_SPORT/status/1503068764446806019

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    7. Former refs blaming the current generation - I'll never understand that. In NL, it is the same story. Especially Mr Mario ('Sour') Van der Ende, doing that every week.

      Those people should sell the profession instead of highlighting mistakes.

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  18. Chefren or other Italian readers - Is it true that Massa and Guida have both been suspended for 3 matches after yesterdays mistake in Turino-Inter? If true, (Italian) media will probably go crazy to see Massa in CL on Wednesday... (of course they don't know when appointments are made)

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    1. I partly answered to your questions in a comment above this morning, about the suspension of Massa and Guida for 3 or 4 weeks, indeed this is the information out from AIA. Still not official, but when such newspaper (Gazzetta) reports that, it is confirmed, this is how it works here without official statements. It will be interesting to see how they will be out from serie A, if they will be appointed in B in other roles, or totally out. Now Massa has indeed this CL game, I will update you about the situation...

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    2. In my opinon Massa as Var did The big mistake for me. Ok Guida missed a penalty, like happened many times in many matches, but it happened first time in this season by Guida.

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  19. Official:
    Lyon - Porto: O. Hațegan
    Crvena - Rangers: I. Kovacs
    Roma - Vitesse: R. Petrescu

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  20. One thing is really strange and I dont really find an answer...
    In Germany 2 referees for many years are / were clearly best performing and for instance definitely better than Brych: Gräfe and Aytekin.
    Aytekin still in charge with some injuries, but if on the field, still absolutely brilliant, nearly always. But both never really reached that level on the international stage... Why? Do you know other examples for that in other countries? Is the reason the bigger pressure? Or is it a language problem? Both Aytekin and Gräfe work with very intense communication in their home language, maybe they dont feel comfortable in English? What do you think about that phenomenon?

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    2. I think that the reason can be mostly found in the different culture and approach to football, including refereeing, of Germany if compared to other countries. Aytkin and Graefe had indeed their major troubles with teams from countries like Italy and Spain, where the passion takes it over all. Not a real question of bearing pressure, but I think that the kind of pressure you can find in certain international games is not present in Bundesliga. For example: the number of red cards, for me, a game with 2 or 3 sending off is not something so extra-ordinary, while in Germany it seems that this never happen. Players rather accept referees and their decisions, they are not focused on the men in the middle.
      Indeed we can conclude that Barcelona - PSG for Aytekin and Real Madrid - Juventus for Graefe, were the matches in which these issues became manifest.
      There isn't a solution for me, they should have officiated abroad to solve this problem, if you ask me.
      Then, about Brych, and his international success, I think indeed this was the key of his excellent career, he understood that in UEFA it was a different affair than home. I think that Aytekin and Graefe couldn't manage to solve this issue.
      I would also say that this is something similar to Oliver, used to officiate in Premier League, a different world, and then suddenly appointed for a hell-game like Real Madrid - Juventus (again the same match that cost to Grafe international reputation). Not a coincidence if you ask me.

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    3. And then, from another point of view, Brych did very well in UEFA competitions, but never at the same level at the FIFA World Cup...

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  21. Very clear YC missed by Massa.

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  22. Reckless challenge missed already by Massa. Should have been a YC to Azpilicueta.

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  23. The difference between the physicality being allowed by Massa compared to, for example, Makkelie is striking.

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  24. Replies
    1. Penalty given for handball against Jorginho.

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  25. OFR for Handball in Lille vs Chelsea. Correct decision as he moves his hand towards the ball.

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  26. Wasn’t the procedure of the review a bit remarkable? Play was stopped in the Chelsea counterattack, not in a neutral position, and then it took another 40 seconds before the OFR advice came and the referee made the gesture. If the outcome of the review would have been that no OFR would have been advised a Chelsea attack was killed for nothing…

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    1. Yes, that was not ideal. Normally you would expect the VAR to be ready, when he asks the referee to stop the game. In general, the VAR check took quite long given the clear situation.
      But of course, we don't know the communication details, so can't assess it completely.

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    2. Why hasn't Colina and Rosetti come up with an answer to this obvious attack on our game? To stop a counter attack and if OFR proved not agreeable to referee?

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  27. Really nothing to report about Marciniak first half. Both teams focused on playing football. Full expected level without challenge.

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  28. 75' OFR in Turin: possible penalty for Villarreal.
    I'm still not 100% sure about OFR, but for sure a penalty to be whistled from the pitch.

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  29. Correct VAR intervention by Kwiatkowski

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  30. Min. 76: Marciniak MUST see the foul (for penalty) Stood 5 m away.
    So, dear Chefren, there is something to report about Marciniak ...
    Sorry, but I wont join the Marciniak supporters club, that has been established here ...

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    1. Dear HaGo,
      my previous comment about Marciniak was about first half.
      For sure that this penalty must be reported as well!

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    2. Yes, I know ... I was just kidding ...
      Thank you anyway for your quick and clear explanations - always fair and (for me) nearly always to agree with.

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    3. What are you talking about HaGo, before the penalty nothing was written about Marciniak except for the fact that nothing happened until half-time and it was an expected level performance. What’s your problem?

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    4. I have seen Marciniak a few times live and find him overrated in some of the mentions posted here in this forum. Not just today.

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  31. Agree, Marciniak should see the foul live, clear mistake.

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  32. Very poor positioning by Marciniak. Clear penalty, should have seen it without OFR. So pity, Marciniak was perfect until now.

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    1. Yeah I think his vision was blocked by another defender

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  33. Missed advantage by Marciniak, another important mistake, this goal will be not important in case, but why not waiting for the shot before whistling the handball?

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    1. Sloppy finish to a relatively easy game by Marciniak, unfortunate

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    2. Imagine VAR told him it did not strike the arm?? That would have been terrible

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  34. Not the best evening for Marciniak, definitely. In terms of difficulty this was match was by far easier than many other games, almost never challenged regarding disciplinary control, but missed concentration for the penalty at first and then the advantage in the second penalty. In the latter case correct call, but he should have delayed it. I think he will appear again in Europa League for the next game, in case.

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  35. 3 teams each from Spain and England in the QF could make appointing a difficult task - especially in the extreme case, if we get three Spain-England pairings, which would mean 6 referees from other countries needed. Plus Vincic seems to be persona non grata in England since yesterday...

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  36. I have the feeling that the so called "modern referees" are more concentrated how to show less cards in the game (preferably under the line of the bookmakers) and don't care much what is actually happens on the pitch. Why am I saying this? Actually recently I have read a research about how important for the bookmakers is that the outcome of their options to be under because usually about 65 per cent of people bet on over (it was explained that the human brain works that way). So, the more and more games I am watching in Europe since this committe started operating the more I am convinced that not showing even mandatory cards is not just a coincidence...

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    1. One of the craziest conspiracy theory I've hewrd. It's much simpler. People would like to see the best players on the pitch and not suspended because of too many yellow cards.

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    2. I would advice you to go to the cinema and watch another B-film instead of polluting this blog with repeated suggestions of corruption

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    3. @ Anonymous: it depends on the game. If the game is not challenging, not rough and there are not a lot 'tactical fouls', a referee can solve situations with his personality.

      For example the PSG-RMA game was a quite challenging one where both referees issued 8 yellow cards. This is an example of a game where both refs chose a strict line to keep control.

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  37. Want to ask a question to experienced refs. Can you please tell me your experience and how are you involved in refereeing now?


    Marciniak blew the whistle for a handball very quick. But what if he didn’t blow for the handball kicker kicked the ball and missed, do we treat it as an advantage?

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    1. Agree. IMO this is not a mistake. Marciniak makes the decision very quickly, in these situations it is risky to wait. For me it was a good performance by the Polish, with the exception of the first penalty.

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    2. The problem is that the risk at the VAR-level has been inverted.

      What is Marciniak whistled immediately here but the VAR then showed the handball decision was actually a clear error? Then, the result of the play would be a dropped ball to Juventus instead of a goal for Villarreal. That would be a very big problem.

      As most of us have developed, sure, whistling immediately has its benefits. Plus, in this situation, the goal-scorer emerges from Marciniak's blind side so it's hard to fault him for not seeing the potential for the rebound to be converted. But, we can't ignore how these things need to be adjudicated in matches with VAR. It is MUCH more risky to whistle immediately than to wait a second or two to see how the play turns out. And that is a very, very difficult skill to acquire as a referee when you have conditioned yourself to do the opposite for most of your career.

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    3. In the United States, the instruction I've received is that it's ok to bring advantage back for a penalty kick no matter how long you might have waited - you don't want to blow the whistle prematurely and deny a goal, but if no goal winds up being scored, always best to bring it back for the penalty kick even if it has been many seconds.

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    4. Are you sure? If the advantage is allowed and player shoots and misses, the advantage of shooting is what referee gave. There's no bringing play back.

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    5. Why not? It's a penalty kick foul, it doesn't make sense to play advantage on that. If it helps, think of it not as playing advantage but rather of delaying the whistle. It's acceptable to delay a longer time in these situations.

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  38. What do you mean by - 'same treatment'?

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  39. 3 English and 3 Spanish teams are still in competition. I wonder how many Spanish and English refs we are going to see in the QF's.

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    1. I think we could see at least 1 Spanish and 1 English refs. Normally, Lahoz and Taylor.
      Both Vincic and Marciniak dissapointed but there are chances too see them again in QF because there are not many options left and they are from neutral countries. Vincic could get the first leg of the game that hasn`t an English team and Taylor the second leg I think. Marciniak`s situation is even more problematic. Now we should see him in Europa League but I definetely think that he doesn`t deserve a QF second leg. Anyway, I would rule out both Marciniak and Vincic from WC play-ofs.
      The regular names Makkelie, Turpin, Orsato, Hategan, Siebert, maybe Kovacs ( he has an important exam with De Bleeckere ) should also be sure of a game in QF; of course if they don`t spoil really bad their games tonight. If it will be possible Oliver and Gil Manzano/CdCG should be ready
      Other names? The list is narrower than ever, with Cakir and Karasev out.

      Delete
  40. Yes, from a refereeing prospective, it would be better if two Spanish and English teams will draw each other.

    If the English teams don't draw each other, I think we will see just Taylor in the single match he can officiate (Oliver out). Spain has 3 great referees which is even worse. I think Gil Manzano will get a chance in the QF. He never officiated a QF, so needs to be 'tested' and is in good shape lately.

    One other detail to mention: Turpin should get a challenging game in QF. If you look at his experience in the knock-out stages:
    - 16/17: Sevilla - Leicester
    - 17/18: Sevilla - Man Utd; AS Roma - Barcelona
    - 18/19: Man City - Schalke 04; Juventus - Ajax
    - 19/20: Chelsea - Bayern
    - 20/21: Liverpool - Leipzig; Chelsea - Porto
    - 21/22: Bayern - Salzburg

    I like him and he is praised a lot on this blog, but doesn't get the most challenging games IMO. Often North-European teams that are focused on playing football. I'd love to see him in a very challenging game.

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    Replies
    1. Turpin is often with 'the Nordics'. Even at the EURO 2020.

      In the past years, Committe has over-used Kuipers, Brych and also Skomina in potentially complicated matches.

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    2. I don't think they overused others, it's just that often Turpin didn't "deliver". Instead of this year! So I agree, he can be among top3 for the final, at least semifinal.

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  41. @ icedteatower: I really REALLY think we will see Siebert in WC play-offs. Something big. :-)

    He is the big German candidate for WC. Appointing him Conference League makes no sense at all. Even if he had a bad game in CL, it would be more logical to appoint him in Europa League.

    Now he even gets a game in Conference League, which should mean something big IMO.

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  42. I think Turpin for the Final. So he will be in QF with Orsato Makkelie Taylor Laoz Sibert

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    Replies
    1. The host city and final ref from the same country? That didn't happen since 1990.

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    2. If Turpin was planned for the final, I don't think the committee would have risked giving him already 3 matches in the KO phase.

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  43. OT: Juan Martínez Munuera has been appointed to handle El Clásico on Sunday. Full appointment:

    Referee: Juan Martínez Munuera
    4th official: Andrés Fuentes Molina
    AR1: Diego Barbero Sevilla
    AR2: Miguel Martínez Munuera
    VAR: Toño Mateu Lahoz
    AVAR: Pablo González Fuertes

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    Replies
    1. Yes, he is called Tono in Spanish football.
      Btw, how often is he doing VAR role?

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    2. Who is the best Spanish VAR in La Liga? Hernandez Hernandez?

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