Monday, 18 July 2022

2022 UEFA Women's Euro - MD3 - Discussion

Let's discuss here the last two games of group stage. 



Group A, 15.07.2022, 21:00 CET
St. Mary's Stadium, Southampton 
NORTHERN IRELAND  - ENGLAND 
Referee: Esther Staubli (SUI) 
Assistant Referee 1: Susann Küng (SUI)
Assistant Referee 2: Franca Overtoom (NED)
Fourth Official: Riem Hussein (GER) Stéphanie Frappart (FRA) 
Video Assistant Referee: Harm Osmers (GER) 
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Christian Dingert (GER)
UEFA Referee Observer: Caroline De Boeck (BEL)
UEFA Delegate: Ana Raspopović (MNE)

Group A, 15.07.2022, 21:00 CET
Brighton & Hove Community Stadium, Brighton & Hove
AUSTRIA - NORWAY 
Referee: Kateryna Monzul (UKR)
Assistant Referee 1: Maryna Striletska (UKR)
Assistant Referee 2: Paulina Baranowska (POL)
Fourth Official: Ivana Projkovska (MKD)
Video Assistant Referee: Paolo Valeri (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Maurizio Mariani (ITA) 
UEFA Referee Observer: Katarzyna Wierzbowska (POL)
UEFA Delegate: Ginta Pēce (LVA)

Group B, 16.07.2022, 21:00 CET
Stadium MK, Milton Keynes
FINLAND - GERMANY
Referee: Tess Olofsson (SWE) Emikar Virginia Calderas Barrera (VEN)
Assistant Referee 1: Almira Spahić (SWE) Migdalia Rodriguez Chirino (VEN)
Assistant Referee 2: Lucie Ratajová (CZE) Mary Blanco Bolivar (COL)
Fourth Official: Ivana Projkovska (MKD) Marta Huerta de Aza (ESP) 
Video Assistant Referee: Tiago Martins (POR)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Luis Godinho (POR)
UEFA Referee Observer: Caroline De Boeck (BEL)
UEFA Delegate: Ronit Glasman (ISR)

Group B, 16.07.2022, 21:00 CET
Brentford Community Stadium, London
DENMARK - SPAIN
Referee: Rebecca Welch (ENG)
Assistant Referee 1: Sian Massey-Ellis (ENG)
Assistant Referee 2: Lisa Rashid (ENG)
Fourth Official: Ivana Martinčić (CRO)
Video Assistant Referee: Pol van Boekel (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Dennis Higler (NED)
UEFA Referee Observer: Jenny Palmqvist (SWE)
UEFA Delegate: Tamar Chichinadze (GEO)

Group C, 17.07.2022, 18:00 CET
Bramall Lane, Sheffield
SWITZERLAND - NETHERLANDS
Referee: Iuliana Demetrescu (ROU)
Assistant Referee 1: Petruta Iugulescu (ROU)
Assistant Referee 2: Anita Vad (HUN)
Fourth Official: Lorraine Watson (SCO)
Video Assistant Referee: Maurizio Mariani (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Paolo Valeri (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Katarzyna Wierzbowska (POL)
UEFA Delegate: Iva Olivari-Ulisa (CRO)

Group C, 17.07.2022, 18:00 CET
Leigh Sports Village, Wigan & Leigh
SWEDEN - PORTUGAL 
Referee: Stéphanie Frappart (FRA) 
Assistant Referee 1: Elodie Coppola (FRA)
Assistant Referee 2: Manuela Nicolosi (FRA)
Fourth Official: Kateryna Monzul (UKR)
Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
UEFA Referee Observer: Blaženka Logarušić (CRO)
UEFA Delegate: Laura Montgomery (SCO)

Group D, 18.07.2022, 21:00 CET
New York Stadium, Rotherham
ICELAND - FRANCE
Referee: Jana Adámková (CZE)
Assistant Referee 1: Lucie Ratajová (CZE)
Assistant Referee 2: Maria Sukenikova (CZE)
Fourth Official: Lorraine Watson (SCO)
Video Assistant Referee: Tiago Martins (POR)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Chris Kavanagh (ENG)
UEFA Referee Observer: Blaženka Logarušić (CRO)
UEFA Delegate: Lamprini Dimitrou (GRE)

Group D, 18.07.2022, 21:00 CET
Manchester City Academy Stadium, Manchester
ITALY - BELGIUM
Referee: Ivana Martinčić (CRO)
Assistant Referee 1: Sanja Rodjak-Karšić (CRO)
Assistant Referee 2: Staša Špur (SVN)
Fourth Official: Ivana Projkovska (MKD)
Video Assistant Referee: Pol van Boekel (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Dennis Higler (NED)
UEFA Referee Observer: Katarzyna Wierzbowska (POL)
UEFA Delegate: Maria Mifsud (MLT)
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50 comments:

  1. Chefren18 July 2022 at 21:59

    Definitely not so much to say about both games so far.

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous18 July 2022 at 22:03

      Probably less intense due to the weather. In normal cases, we would have more to talk about in a decisive game involving Italy

      Delete
    2. Anonymous18 July 2022 at 22:10

      Excellent advantage goal by Martincic!

      Delete
    3. John Grace21 July 2022 at 11:04

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      Delete
  2. Anonymous18 July 2022 at 22:10

    Good advantage by Martincic, she was about to whistle PK

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    1. Chefren18 July 2022 at 22:20

      https://streamja.com/5K55z

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    2. usaref18 July 2022 at 23:06

      So I'm sure I'll be called crazy here, but I think that would have been an atrocious penalty if given.

      The Belgian player overruns the ball from the Italian player's blind side. She then reaches her leg back out to try to play a ball that she has zero capability of playing. The Italian, turning to play the ball, ends up kicking the out-stretched leg.

      Which player was acting carelessly? One player is trying to kick the ball and following its path; the other is sticking her leg out into the air.

      Bluntly, the Belgian player's lack of skill creates a scenario where the Italian player ends up kicking an opponent when the opponent should never be there. That's not a penalty. At least, it shouldn't be.

      Delete
    3. usaref18 July 2022 at 23:09

      In fact, looking at it again, I'd take the argument a step further. By sticking her leg into the path of the Italian defender, I think the Belgian has carelessly fouled HER opponent.

      In theory, we shouldn't be swayed by who appears to get hurt more when two players kick each other. In practice, that can be hard. But the evidence here definitely points the Belgian attacker committing a foul action. She's carelessly flailed her leg into the path of her opponent and prevented the Italian from clearing the ball.

      Delete
    4. Mapet18 July 2022 at 23:09

      Impressive. Refereeing at world class level.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous18 July 2022 at 23:21

      usaref, do you want an attacking foul there? Even the Italian players on the field were OK with the goal.

      Delete
    6. usaref19 July 2022 at 16:10

      I don't necessarily WANT an attacking foul in this instance. I think the reaction of the Italian players allows for play to go on and the goal to be awarded. In short, I think the expectations of the Italian players is that this is just an accident with two players missing the ball and that--so long as a penalty isn't called--so be it.

      With that said, I don't think we can ignore the fact that the scenario plays out the way it does because of two reasons. First, the players are less skilled than the matches we typically analyze. Second, the players are used to referees who are less sophisticated than the referees we usually analyze.

      That play would never happen the way it happened in a top men's match. You have the attacking player totally misjudging the ball and the defending player blindly swinging as she turns at the top of the penalty area. Maybe one of those two things happens in a big men's match every now and then. But both at the same time? Highly unlikely.

      So my point would be that if this exact play somehow did happen in, say, the a men's CL match we'd either recognize it as a fluke coming together OR we'd punish the attacker for sticking his leg in a place where he couldn't get the ball and where he'd be kicked. I also guarantee that the defender would go down--and stay down--injured, which would make it all the more challenging for the referee to see this as a penalty. The fact that the Italian player stays up (while her opponent goes down) has to be one of the main reasons the referee appears to see this as a penalty. More sophisticated players know that and wouldn't allow those set of facts to present themselves to the referee.

      Regardless of whether you want no foul or an attacking foul here, I just hope people look at this and see it as no penalty. Because it is the type of incident that can happen in men's matches below the elite level and for those reading this blog and working those competitions, they should use this as a teaching tool to ensure they interpret these kind of events correctly.

      Delete
  3. Chefren18 July 2022 at 22:28

    Evident offside missed by AR1 in ISL - FRA. Should have detected it.

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    1. Anonymous18 July 2022 at 23:22

      How about the long OFR in min 90+11?

      Delete
    2. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 00:45

      I think it was not easy to see for AR1 because she couldn‘t see the ball.

      Delete
  4. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 00:52

    Perfect VAR-work by Tiago Martins! All 3 situations correct. Not easy for Adamkova but excellent VAR.

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 04:58

      Is VAR at stadium or centralized in Nyon?

      Delete
  5. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 01:57

    2022 Women's AFCON
    Semi-Final #2 Morocco vs Nigeria
    Referee: Maria Rivet (MRI)
    I wholeheartedly congratulate Rivet and the VARs assigned to this match. For their guts and willingness to do what is correct based solely on the Laws of the Game. As a team, at no point did they care/consider how their correct decisions would affect this Semi-Final match nor how one of the teams (Nigeria) would be hampered.

    Two brave and correct VAR interventions for SFP on two separate occasions. The 1st incident was completely missed by Rivet. While the 2nd incident was only punished with a Yellow Card.

    I applaud Rivet and her VAR for correctly sending off the 2 Nigerian players. Bravo!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 05:00

      Videos?

      Delete
    2. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 06:16

      Morocco is the host country, so sending off two opposing players is not that difficult :)

      By the way, Zambia is crying foul for the penalty kick awarded against them in the other semi-final...

      Delete
    3. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 06:32

      Zambia should indeed feel hard done by that VAR intervention and the PK that was ultimately called. As there was no actual perceivable contact that warranted a VAR intervention and much less a PK.

      Home/Away, it doesn't matter. In a Semi-Final setting, most referees would cower at making such match-altering decisions like these. They would be too worried about being blamed for "ruining" the match.

      Delete
    4. usaref19 July 2022 at 16:18

      Videos hopefully are available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBHccxJZEtA

      The first SFP card is 100%, great intervention.

      The second one, I'm not so sure. Don't get me wrong, I prefer yellow card. But is a yellow card CLEARLY wrong? The end result is more awkward than malicious and once you go with yellow on-field, the bar is pretty high to get to SFP via VAR--at least with FIFA standards. I don't think, to use a hypothetical, that tackle would get upgraded from yellow to red in Qatar this winter. Maybe I'm wrong.

      Delete
    5. usaref19 July 2022 at 16:19

      *prefer red card... I personally prefer red card

      Delete
  6. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 04:51

    Just in case anybody was wondering how Edina Alves Batista (BRA) was doing at the 2022 Copa America Femenina.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1547793264232710145

    This is from a referee who has a Women's World Cup Semi-Final on her resume. A referee who is a candidate for next year's Women's World Cup. A complete and utter embarrassment for a referee at that level to blow a call so badly.

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 04:54

      If Seneme has even just the smallest bit of honor. His fellow Brazilian Batista should be on her merry way back home to Brazil.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 04:56

      Seneme is gone from CONMEBOL for several months...

      Delete
    3. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 05:11

      Correct! Replace "Seneme" with Enrique Cáceres in the above statement. But I stand by the rest of the statement.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 06:14

      Probably with the difference that Alves in not "his fellow Brazilian" :)

      Delete
    5. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 06:18

      Correct again. hahaha
      Any opinion on the incident itself?

      Delete
  7. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 05:29

    Final prediction
    QF: Lehtovaara, Welch, Frappart, Foster
    SF: Martincic, Monzul
    F: Lehtovaara / Foster (depending on QF performance)

    A bit risky to leave out Adamkova, as committee member is a Czech, however she reached her already officiated the EURO final. I presume they will appoint with an eye to the future, as in the CL.

    Frappart and Welch should get a QF considering that they are not from a neutral country.

    Lehtovaara and Foster (both 41) battling for the final.

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  8. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 06:19

    The top women's match USA-Canada (1-0) was decided by a penalty kick awarded live by referee Garcia. At 29, she is the new star of the Mexican women refereeing following the retirement of Venegas.

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    1. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 06:53

      I wouldn't label her the "star" just yet. She is simply one among the current crop of Mexican Female FIFA Referees. Along with Karen Hernandez Andrade 27, the Perez Borja sisters 32 & 30, Francia Gonzalez 35 (IMO, the best of the bunch), and Lizzet Amairany García 31.

      Needless to say, the Mexican Referee Committee has done an admirable job building up its ranks of female referees.

      Delete
  9. Philipp S19 July 2022 at 07:39

    QF predictions
    ENG-ESP: Calderas, Rodriguez (VEN), Blanco (COL), Demetrescu (ROU) - Martins, Godinho (POR)
    GER-AUT: Welch, Massey, Rashid (ENG), Adamkova (CZE) - Mariani (ITA), Kavanagh (ENG)
    SWE-ITA: Lehtovaara (FIN), Kaivoja (EST), Kourompylia (GRE), Foster (WAL) - Osmers, Dingert (GER)
    FRA-NED: Staubli, Küng (SUI), Striletska, Monzul (UKR) - Valeri (ITA), Frankowski (POL)

    ReplyDelete
  10. Chefren19 July 2022 at 07:55

    This is the pool of referees that in my opinion are likely to be appointed on next stages until the final: Martincic, Foster, Welch, Lehtovaara, Staubli, Frappart and Monzul. Possible that some of them will be out, and a referee getting a quarterfinal, will appear in final as well.
    Also, I think that a more likely appointments than the others, seems to be a semifinal for Foster, based on her good games, and hardly thinking she will get final, a direct semifinal would suit.
    In second instance, the Croatian after the second game gained further credit and she is possible for a semifinal, as well.
    About the other names, possible that committee has already made some big plans (Frappart, Monzul...). We will see.

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    1. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 11:13

      I think most people agree with these names. For me the biggest question will be surrounding Frappart/Monzul/Leftovaara. The QF appointments will give us a big clue and for 1 perhaps a direct SF. The issue is as France is the last QF then they will have to make a call before hand. France have been slightly stronger than the NED and have a real shout for a semi-final spot too! So, do they want their top European woman (Frappart) who is going to the WC to get the final or do they want to make a statement and offer Monzul the spot (political statement). IMHO, the best performer out of the 3 but probably ranked lowest out of the 3 is Lehtovaara. One could argue based on this, she should get the nod!

      Delete
  11. Ref_030719 July 2022 at 08:56

    Predicitions:

    QF:
    ENG - ESP: Lina Lehtovaara (FIN)
    GER - AUT: Marta Huerta de Aza (ESP)
    SWE - BEL: Stéphanie Frappart (FRA)
    FRA - NED: Rebecca Welch (ENG)

    SF:
    ENG/ESP - SWE/BEL: Esther Staubli (SUI)
    GER/AUT - FRA/NED: Cheryl Foster (WAL)

    Final: Kateryna Monzul (UKR)

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  12. Chefren19 July 2022 at 09:13

    Videos from Demetrescu game:

    20' - Penalty revoked after OFR
    https://streamff.com/v/e99084
    Suprised by a defender's mistake and following a quick attack, referee tries to find the best angle, but I think in the exact moment of the possible penalty contact she has a defender in her line of vision. Would another movement have allowed her to get a better view? I think she made this call rather on intuition of what could have happened.

    89' - Goal allowed after one of the longest VAR check we can remember, originally disallowed by AR for offside
    https://streamff.com/v/5ff5f4
    My opinion is that there isn't any deliberate play by defender to allow the goal and it is not clear whether attacker touched ball by head or not. In this case, VAR should rather back the officials for the decisions they took that I think can't be denied, based on the video.
    For regular goal one must only think about a possible deliberate play by defender and this wasn't the case. Knowing how Itlaian VARs work, it is possible that Mariani said "this is a possible deliberate play" and Demetrescu accepted this point of view without questioning too much.

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    Replies
    1. Shearer19 July 2022 at 13:26

      @Chefren and anyone, please help... What I see is: not short distance to the ball, ball speed not high, clear vision, obvious intention to jump and play the ball, obvious header... all of this was action of defender, and not reaction (short distance to the ball, high speed of the ball, instinctive move to stop/kick the ball). Until month ago this was clear deliberate play and no offside.
      But according to the latest UEFA changes of the offside law, this should be considered a deflection (defender did not play the ball in controlled manner – i.e she was under pressure by the opposing attacker). Therefore, an offside position and indirect free kick should have been awarded.
      Any thoughts? Thanks a lot

      Delete
    2. Ref_170719 July 2022 at 16:05

      IMO you are on the right track but you take the wrong conclusion. I mentioned it in my prior posts, and I stick to my initial opinion that there was no intentional play by the Swiss defender pursuant to the new LotG as the players were in a duel, fighting for the ball. You two, Chefren and Shearer seem to agree with that. BUT if there is no deliberate play by the Swiss defenders, their touch simply has to be ignored. The player cannot be offside BECAUSE OF an unintentional play by the defender. So, one must consider whether there was an offside position in the moment of the free-kick execution. From the video, it seems like the attacker was in an onside position in that moment.
      That is why the possible touch by the Dutch player was decisive. If there was a touch, offside is clearly the right decision as there was no deliberate play by a Swiss player. VAR check could have been very quick. If there was no touch, even if there WAS a deliberate play by the Swiss defender, it could have been an offside position only if the Dutch attacker was offside when the free-kick was executed.

      Delete
    3. usaref19 July 2022 at 17:10

      I think Ref_1707 is the closest to having this correct.

      To start, I believe that the Dutch attacker was NOT in an offside position off the free kick. Note that that portion of the play is never even reviewed at the monitor. But if you freeze the play at the actual kickpoint in the above clip (0:26) shows the best angle, it seems quite clear the Swiss defender is closer to goal at the moment the free kick is taken.

      So, if true, the ONLY question is whether or not the ball touched the Dutch attacker that was trying to head the ball. I think that's what took so long. If the ball was ONLY played by a Swiss defender (or defenders) then this cannot be offside. But if the ball touched the Dutch attacker after the first touch of the Swiss defender, then this becomes offside (because the touch of the second Swiss defender is a deflection). For me, I think the VAR was spending most of the time here trying to determine if the ball touched the hair of the Dutch attacker who tried to head it. It seems he and the referee concluded it did not. Ergo, no offside.

      Delete
    4. Shearer20 July 2022 at 09:43

      @Ref_1707 Thanks for your comment. Actually I wanted to spark a discussion over latest offside instructions regarding deliberate play/deflection as I (still) find them so contradictory to the previous one.

      Delete
  13. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 10:16

    QF:
    ENG - ESP: Lehtovaara (FIN) or Frappart (FRA) / Staubli
    GER - AUT: Welch (ENG) / Martincic
    SWE - BEL: Monzul (UKR) / Adamkova
    FRA - NED: Huerta de Aza (ESP) / Caldera

    SF:
    ENG/ESP - SWE/BEL: Lehtovaara (FIN) or Frappart (FRA) / Martincic
    GER/AUT - FRA/NED: Foster (WAL) / Staubli

    Final: Monzul (UKR) or Lehtovaara (FIN) / Huerta (if ESP out) - if not KM or LL as 4th.

    So I'm torn between the FIN & Frappart for either a QF or SF. I actually think Lehtovaara has a real chance at the final with Monzul (hence put her on a QF).
    I din't think UEFA - we saw with Welch and ESP are too bothered about potential next opponents hence leaning towards Frappart for a semi. I think Staubli and Martincic will be used as 4th officials in a QF and SF. Huerta possibly (dep on ESP) as 4th on the final.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 10:51

    Predicitions QF:

    ENG - ESP: Frappart (FRA) / Staubli (SUI)
    GER - AUT: Huerta de Aza (ESP) / Calderas Barrera (VEN)
    SWE - BEL: Monzul (UKR) / Projkovska (MKD)
    FRA - NED: Welch (ENG) / Foster (WAL)

    ReplyDelete
  15. Chefren19 July 2022 at 12:08

    It is very strange this delay at least for tomorrow's game, I would guess they are preparing all the 4 appointments for QFs together.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 12:40

      Maybe they will publish appointments for Q1-2 only. Huerta de Aza and Welch/Foster could be appointed for FRA-NED or SF. But that cannot be decided until the ENG-ESP game is completed.

      Delete
  16. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 13:03

    For me the biggest question will be surrounding Frappart/Monzul/Leftovaara. The QF appointments will give us a big clue and for 1 perhaps a direct SF. The issue is as France is the last QF then they will have to make a call before hand. France have been slightly stronger than the NED and have a real shout for a semi-final spot too! So, do they want their top European woman (Frappart) who is going to the WC to get the final or do they want to make a statement and offer Monzul the spot (political statement). IMHO, the best performer out of the 3 but probably ranked lowest out of the 3 is Lehtovaara. One could argue based on this, she should get the nod!

    ReplyDelete
  17. Ex Eng Ref19 July 2022 at 19:12

    Surely the officials must know as their training will need to be adjusted accordingly

    ReplyDelete
  18. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 21:31

    All I can think of right now as an explanation is serious COVID-issues (I hope not!), which would lead to the ‘German approach’ of only announcing the referee on the matchday itself. I hope I’m wrong though, but I’m unable to think of another reason why it’s taking so long

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    Replies
    1. Chefren19 July 2022 at 21:37

      I'm starting to think that there are issues with UEFA site, it wouldn't be the first time, indeed name of observer has appearead some hours ago, but not the rest of the assignment.

      Delete
  19. Anonymous19 July 2022 at 21:46

    Surely it seems unfair to overpush / reorganise to accommodate Frappart. She gets so many opportunities in the men’s game that priority should go to other high-performing female officials. If France progress and she doesn’t get another game, so what??

    ReplyDelete

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