Referee appointments for Matchday 5 of 2023-24 UEFA Champions League, second set of games to be played on Wednesday 29 November 2023.
18:45 CET - Istanbul (Ali Sami Yen Spor Kompleksi)
Galatasaray (TUR) - Manchester United FC (ENG) | Group A
Referee: José María Sánchez ESP
Assistant Referee 1: Raúl Cabañero ESP
Assistant Referee 2: Iñigo Prieto ESP
Fourth Official:Guillermo Cuadra ESP
Video Assistant Referee: Ricardo De Burgos ESP
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Juan Martínez Munuera ESP
UEFA Referee Observer: Drago Kos SVN
UEFA Delegate: Adrian D. Casha MLT
18:45 CET - Seville (Estadio Ramón Sánchez-Pizjuán)
Sevilla FC (ESP) - PSV Eindhoven (NED) | Group B
Referee: Davide Massa ITA
Assistant Referee 1: Filippo Meli ITA
Assistant Referee 2: Stefano Alassio ITA
Fourth Official: Maurizio Mariani ITA
Video Assistant Referee: Paolo Valeri ITA
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati ITA
UEFA Referee Observer: Pascal Pierre Garibian FRA
UEFA Delegate: Haris Gvozden BIH
21:00 CET - Munich (Fußball Arena München)
FC Bayern München (GER) - FC København (DEN) | Group A
Referee: Stéphanie Frappart FRA
Assistant Referee 1: Mikael Berchebru FRA
Assistant Referee 2: Steven Torregrossa FRA
Fourth Official: Bastien Dechepy FRA
Video Assistant Referee: Carlos del Cerro ESP
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Alejandro Hernández ESP
UEFA Referee Observer: Terje Hauge NOR
UEFA Delegate: Scott Struthers SCO
21:00 CET London (Arsenal Stadium)
Arsenal FC (ENG) - RC Lens (FRA) | Group B
Referee: Artur Dias POR
Assistant Referee 1: Paulo Soares POR
Assistant Referee 2: Pedro Ribeiro POR
Fourth Official: Miguel Nogueira POR
Video Assistant Referee: Tiago Martins POR
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Hugo Miguel POR
UEFA Referee Observer: Kyros Vassaras GRE
UEFA Delegate: Michael Kirchner GER
21:00 CET - Madcrid (Estadio Santiago Bernabéu)
Real Madrid CF (ESP) - SSC Napoli (ITA) | Group C
Referee: François Letexier FRA
Assistant Referee 1: Cyril Mugnier FRA
Assistant Referee 2: Mehdi Rahmouni FRA
Fourth Official: Jérémy Stinat FRA
Video Assistant Referee: Jérôme Brisard FRA
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Pol van Boekel NED
UEFA Referee Observer: Lucílio Cardoso Cortez Batista POR
UEFA Delegate: Jacques Antenen SUI
21:00 CET - Braga (Estádio Municipal de Braga)
SC Braga (POR) - 1.FC Union Berlin (GER) | Group C
Referee: Clément Turpin FRA
Assistant Referee 1: Nicolas Danos FRA
Assistant Referee 2: Erwan Finjean FRA
Fourth Official: Ruddy Buquet FRA
Video Assistant Referee: Willy Delajod FRA
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Stuart Attwell ENG
UEFA Referee Observer: Dejan Filipović SRB
UEFA Delegate: Karl Espen Eriksen NOR
21:00 CET - Lisbon (Estádio Do Sport Lisboa e Benfica)
SL Benfica (POR) - FC Internazionale Milano (ITA) | Group D
Referee: Andris Treimanis LVA
Assistant Referee 1: Haralds Gudermanis LVA
Assistant Referee 2: Aleksejs Spasennikovs LVA
Fourth Official: Aleksandrs Golubevs LVA
Video Assistant Referee: Ivan Bebek CRO
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Bastian Dankert GER
UEFA Referee Observer: Haim Jakov ISR
UEFA Delegate: Duncan Fraser SCO
21:00 CET - Donostia / San Sebastián (Estadio de Anoeta)
Real Sociedad de Fútbol (ESP) - FC Salzburg (AUT) | Group D
Referee: Mykola Balakin UKR
Assistant Referee 1: Oleksandr Berkut UKR
Assistant Referee 2: Dmytro Zaporozhenko UKR
Fourth Official: Yaroslav Kozyk UKR
Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski POL Marco Fritz GER
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Alper Ulusoy TUR
UEFA Referee Observer: Björn Kuipers NED
UEFA Delegate: Fiona Pförtke GER
Stephanie Frappart to Munich
ReplyDeleteBalakin!!!!! Nice. Good luck for him!
ReplyDeleteTo be honest this time better not to comment some appointments, otherwise...
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteWhy Chefren??? :)))))), show please you neutral attitude to all referees, i understnad that you are human being and have sympathetic or unsympathetic to some referees and nationalyties.But as you are blog admin and really you opinion is important for many blog readers, please write you comments
DeleteI stopped myself when I was writing the comment, I never used some words on the blog: I think it is important to respect, and so I wouldn't comment.
DeleteThanks for you honest answer
DeleteWhat is so special about Balakin?
ReplyDeleteThis is not sarcasm, I hope someone can explain this to me.
Thanks in advance
One could maybe say that Gil Manzano was planned for Galatasaray - United but then replaced, we have some elements if we look at VAR choice. Martinez Munuera gets the AVAR role, but he is still appointed. Main VAR De Burgos and we know that until today he was certainly not the first choice for UEFA...
ReplyDeleteMy opinion based on such choices is that, waiting for next Gil Manzano appearance, that UEFA assessed as important mistake the missed penalty by referee on the pitch, while they gave a certain credit to Martinez Munuera about considering the incident not worthy of an OFR (but that's only speculation, of course). But it is also possible that they didn't want to appoint Gil Manzano for a question of opportunity.
Why is Munuera the AVAR referee again for the Galatasaray match? Does UEFA have no other referee? Two matches in a row Munuera is the AVAR referee for Galatasaray matches. Moreover, when there were so many controversial VAR/AVAR decisions in the Bayern match.
DeleteSurprising to see Sanchez in one of the most crucial games on this matchday. Gil Manzano, Orsato, Turpin or Vincic were more expected there, I think. In case of a good performance, he could consolidate his place at the EURO.
ReplyDeleteFrappart is unexpected after no EL game this season. The game seems suitable though.
Massa and Soares Dias are normal appointments - medium Elite for medium games, if one wants to put it simple. SEV-PSV with Italian officials like in the first leg.
Letexier gets a sonorous, but unimportant game - probably good for him to gain more experience. Two French referees for the two legs of RMA-NAP.
Turpin on the other hand with the more important game - similar to Makkelie's one, but here Braga still has the chance to qualify.
Different treatment for the equally decided group D, where Treimanis makes his season debut and Balakin his overall debut. Fully expectable to see First group referees here.
De Burgos with first CL game as VAR this season, could be a punishment for Martinez. However still possible to see the latter with Gil Manzano on MD6.
I think Rosetti and co underestimated the status of group A. Bayern qualified already but the other three group is still open. For Man Utd. It is kind of last chance to continue in CL and I think too elite referee was a better option. Bayern-Copenhagen game should be an elite ref game instead of Frappart.
DeleteI'm more surprised by Treimanis than Balakin. BTW to me it's too early for Balakin.
ReplyDeleteBy which Srdjan Jovanović deserved to be deleted from all appointments. Can a man's career be ruined because of one ITA - ENG match?
ReplyDeleteIt is evident that it is not anymore based on that game, something must have happened in Serbia between him and the federation, but it seems hard to know. Vry sorry for him, he looked very promising.
Delete@Chefren: I am not sure about your argument concerning troubles with his confederation in Serbia: worldfootball.net offers us "another" Srđan Jovanović from Montenegro, born in 1984 (instead of 1986) who handled six matches in the Super Liga this season. I have the feeling that they confused "our" Srđan Jovanović with another guy this season:
Deletehttps://www.worldfootball.net/referee_summary/srdjan-jovanovic_3/1/1/
https://www.worldfootball.net/referee_summary/srdjan-jovanovic_2/1/1/
UEL: Freiburg - Olympiacos:
ReplyDeleteR: Irfan Peljto (BiH, Elite)
AR1: Senad Ibrišimbegović
AR2: Davor Beljo
4R: Miloš Gigović
UECL: Breidablik - Maccabi TA
R: Luka Bilbija (BiH, 2nd) - debut in group phase
AR1: Damir Lazić
AR2: Amer Macić
4R: Antoni Bandić
Interesting to point out that despoite of excellent performances, at a certain point after many CL games a referee must get EL at least once. This will be fourth appointment for the Bosnian and we can consider it as a "bonus" one, following the three good games in CL.
DeleteA bit surprised by the special observation of Artur Dias after his semi-final UCL. Also I didn’t expect Letexier in Madrid after his compatriot had the MD2 reversed game :)
ReplyDeleteI assumed Turpin and Makkelie have lower profile games, because UEFA may need them again in the last round. Examples:
- Group E: Feyenoord is strong at home. If they win against Atlético, the MD6 Atlético-Lazio is crucial for qualification. You will need Turpin there. I can’t see any other name after Vincic had the MD1 game. On the other hand, if Atlético and Lazio both win their game this week, the final game is less important.
- Group F: if PSG qualifies this week, you may use Makkelie in Newcastle-Milan.
Balakin deserved it! Good luck to the Ukrainian referees!
ReplyDeleteHe continues the dynasty - his dad and grandpa were the referees in the highest leagues of USSR and Ukraine...
DeleteGood luck to him.
it will be interesting to watch the appointments of the spanish referees in the ukraine-italy match after their very controversial decision with an unassigned penalty against italy...
ReplyDeleteI guess UEFA were not unhappy with Gil Manzano’s decision. To copy Čeferin’s wordings: it would be a "disaster" for Euro 2024 if Italy failed to qualify.
DeleteIn the country where I live, judges (of the court) are appointed for life, in order to guarantee their integrity and neutrality. They cannot be fired.
To draw a parallel to refereeing: what happens when a referee made a KMI decision AGAINST the country Italy, an Italian club, PSG, forgets to whistle a penalty for Slovenia, or is on the pitch when AS Roma and Mourinho are losing a final? The referee may not be fired, but it will have negative consequences for his career. They can’t see a specific club, national team or even all Italian club teams for a while, even when their decision was deemed CORRECT and they received a HIGH rating.
Early prediction: Slavko Vinčić will whistle Dortmund-PSG (MD6) and he will NOT whistle a penalty against PSG. He is literally “the friend of a friend”.
Mr. Čeferin’s is not independent, the clubs and media are getting too much power, and we can just look on sadly.
Please delete this comment. Accusing referees of being corrupt is not at the level of this blog.
DeleteExactly. Ceferin's statement is nonsense. The president of UEFA should not allow himself such a thing. Maybe some people don't want to see Ukraine at the Euro...
Delete@lukas: did I use the word corrupt? Read again. I’m criticizing UEFA, their appointments and policy. Taylor not appointed to Italian clubs (did he make a crucial mistake?), Makkelie not assigned to PSG after a good performance (not even to other games in the group?). And let’s not forget the worst HR-management this century: Cakir after he did not whistle a penalty to Slovenia. We have seen the consequences.
DeleteOn the other hand, Gil Manzano whistled a wrong handball penalty to PSG, but 2 rounds later he gets PSG again. Gil Manzano did not whistle the penalty to Ukraine. Do we expect any consequences? I don’t… And I never said Gil Manzano did all of this on purpose. Absolutely not. But is it fair to criticize UEFA and how they treat their top referees? I think so.
@JK You know the basic problems are politics, nepotism biased mentality. Here most of the people are refrees still they are unable to show neutrality, so how do you you expect that those refree will ? They are also human!
Delete1. Do you remember that Kovacs didn't get a single game but Frappart in WC? That was not strange! Some people said feminism!
2. Faghani Alireza send back to home despite same offence as Elfath! Still before starting of WC he was one of the favourite!! Overall performance was better than Elfath. Only that dicission!
3. In WWC they neglected good performer like Olofsson and other to give match Flappart to establish feminism!
4. They send 3women in men WC, who were unable to get SF even QF(except Flappart) in WWC so how they eligible in men catagory!
5. That unlucky Makkelie was his prime but politics snatch away the final! But in the last year there was no name except Marciniak because Orsato & Turpin already done. If they keep politics away from game they should have more options with Marciniak & Turpin!
6. What about Jovanovic? He was the only guy make mistake! Surely not!
You will not get any answer of these questions. FIFA refree boss Colina, Europe Rosetti with their troop and lobby! That's why nobody dare to insist rather what they get take it as bonus!
Thank you stay happy and blessed.
What a sad bunch of appointments.
ReplyDeleteTurpin and Makkelie in games where they were not needed at all. On the other hand Sanchez Martinez gets a likely super hot clash. One can only hope we will not see his lenient days again.
Balakin rushed into CL for no reason. Frankowski with a Rosetti observation and nobody really knows why. Frappart gets CL after only being trusted for LIE-LUX lately. And why is Soares Dias with Vassaras?
Not to forget the weird management of Hernandez and the expected support of Martinez Munuera.
All that already, and I am someone to support Marciniak and Kovacs repeated in group F. Besides that the only smart appointments I can see are for Nyberg and Letexier, learning with big teams without real pressure.
Well, if you saw Frankowski's performance at Salzburg on MD2, than you will understand.
DeleteOT: Danny Makkelie appointed as referee for the clash between Feyenoord - PSV. According to the newspaper AD: “The top two teams in the Eredivisie will have the best referee in the Netherlands officiating their match this Sunday. The KNVB announced on Monday that Danny Makkelie will be refereeing the game.”
ReplyDeleteAfter officiating the PSV - Ajax match a month ago, Danny Makkelie will now also oversee the Feyenoord - PSV match, which is poised to be a decisive battle for the championship. It’s evident that the committee trusts Makkelie immensely for such crucial matches.
Source: https://www.ad.nl/nederlands-voetbal/danny-makkelie-aangesteld-als-scheidsrechter-voor-kraker-tussen-feyenoord-en-psv~a416c7c3/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
Topgames 23/24 Eredivisie:
DeleteSep-27: Ajax-Feyenoord 0-4 (Gözübüyük)
Oct-8: Ajax-AZ 1-2 (Lindhout)
Oct-29: PSV-Ajax 5-2 (Makkelie)
Nov-12: Feyenoord-AZ 1-0 (Makkelie)
Dec-3: Feyenoord-PSV (Makkelie)
I expected Gözübüyük next Sunday, after Makkelie officiated two top games recently. However, FEY-PSV is a very important game given the standings and Makkelie did very well in his games. None of the teams complained about him, therefore it seems a sensible appointment.
Is anyone shocked to see a Spanish referee for the game in Istanbul as its the biggest game on this match day (My Opinion) I was thinking French or Dutch appointment, But after what happened in Newcastle with Manzano who is supposed to be Spanish #1, Looks like UEFA have sidelined him, Sanchez last CL game was Leipzig v Red Star Belgrade (25th Oct) That was 2 match day's ago I hope he is alert as this will be a bigger test. Does this mean if things go the way they should in Group A, United v Bayern will be Clement Turpin (FRA), Artur Dias (POR) or Danny Makkeile (NED) I can't see any other referee appointed for that game, Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteIf things go as they should, United-Bayern is an unimportant game on MD6 ;)
DeleteAnyway, Copenhagen-Galatasaray will technically be the bigger game as a direct duel in every possible situation.
Orsato surely is another option, if we consider MD5 referees to be used again.
HaHaHa Maybe Galatasaray v United Draw (I want United to win! ) and Bayern win against Copenhagen then 3 teams will have a chance to qualify and the 2 appointments should be from those 3 options :). Orsato can't be an option as both games had Italian referees in MD3 ;)
DeleteOrsato can be an option, doesn't matter that both games had Italian referees. Both Legs of Napoli vs Real Madrid where done by French Referees and Jerome Brisard as VAR
DeleteYet more controversy in the Premier League. Fulham vs Wolves this time. Referee: Michael Salisbury. VAR: Stuart Attwell who will have to hop on a plane soon to get to Nyon to do VAR tomorrow in the UCL.
ReplyDeleteYet another non existent penalty given to Wolves, Attwell somehow doesn't recommend an OFR.
Vinicius somehow doesn't get a red card for violent conduct, because the Wolves player doesn't act like he has been murdered.
Then Attwell decides to call Salisbury for a review in the 94th min for an extremely soft penalty, never a clear error
Having reviewed the key incidents you mentioned, it seems it's yet another dreadful night for English officials. Taylor must be nervous ahead of tomorrow, knowing Attwell is his VAR following this performance. Poor from Salisbury, even worse from Attwell.
DeleteYou know the basic problems are politics, nepotism biased mentality. Here most of the people are refree still they are unable to show neutrality, so how do you you expect that those refree will ? They are also human!
ReplyDelete1. Do you remember that Kovacs didn't get a single game but Frappart in WC? That was not strange! Some people said feminism!
2. Faghani Alireza send back to home despite same offence as Elfath! Still before starting of WC he was one of the favourite!! Overall performance was better than Elfath. Only that dicission!
3. In WWC they neglected good performer like Olofsson and other to give match Flappart to establish feminism!
4. They send 3women in men WC, who were unable to get SF even QF(except Flappart) in WWC so how they eligible in men catagory!
5. That unlucky Makkelie was his prime but politics snatch away the final! But in the last year there was no name except Marciniak because Orsato & Turpin already done. If they keep politics away from game they should have more options with Marciniak & Turpin!
6. What about Jovanovic? He was the only guy make mistake! Surely not!
7. They keep Karasev away from giving a match but not to US referees? Why? Karasev directly firing AK47 to kill people? Surely no! Fighting in between countries not between refree!
You will not get any answer of these questions. FIFA refree boss Colina, Europe Rosetti with their troop and lobby! That's why nobody dare to insist rather what they get take it as bonus!
Thank you stay happy and blessed
Jovanovic is another very good example. He had a weak game that involved Italy and after that, his status has suddenly changed.
DeleteIt would be different if it was Germany instead of Italy. Why would they make this difference? Its not fair.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteMarco Fritz (GER) replaced Kwiatkowski in Real Sociedad - Salzburg !!
ReplyDeleteI am not really surprised honestly. In my opinion his call for OFR yesterday can't be supported. I've said it, UEFA must assess the penalty as a mistake.
Well Van Boekel lost his chance to (formally) head VAR for a EURO final after a correct (non-)intervention but yes, UEFA should assess the penalty last night as a mistake and I agree with them.
DeleteMaybe the Van Boekel non-appointment was already planned? It would've been quite a grand slam for him to do both a semi-final and final and would maybe be hard to justify politically
DeleteI fully agree with Samuel's comment. We are too much focusing on how the law is applied but most of the case is the law itself that is wrong. We really need to carefully understand which are the inputs from IFAB, Uefa and REF Committee about the vast amount of handball cases before judging the operate of Marciniak and Kwiatkowski.
ReplyDeleteThe same happened on offside evaluation, where the rules and the applications respect the hundreds of different cases are really weird, not clear and not easy.
In many cases legislators are making difficult the job of the referees; rules must be easy and clever. Football should not be the game based on deep technology or Artificial Intelligence to compute how many microns the attacker is ahead the defender to blow offside.
In US WC 1994, Paolo Casarin, the head of FIFA referee, defined, in agreement with the body of the football, that it's offside only if there is a light between the attacker and the defender, so if the player attacking is completely over than his contending; and believe me everything was much more easy.
The same should be for hand ball
Yes, it would be IFAB's responsibility to either use a more precise wording regarding handball in the LotG or provide some interpretation guidelines, which are made known to the wide public.
DeleteCurrently it seems desired, that each association (or worse each referee...) can choose their own interpretation of the handball rules.
I agree, I actually think the clarifications which were removed a couple seasons back regarding handballs were quite good, kind of like the added clarifications regarding deliberate play for offsides, this is something I believe IFAB should add, otherwise it gives too much room for the individual referee to make their decision on what is unnatural/natural position and a red line won't be formed.
DeleteMX +1
DeleteThe replacement of Polish VAR is definitely something big.
ReplyDeleteRarely seen, at least committee gave a signal and to be honest this is very surprising because the situation must be very extra-ordinary to see that. So we got indirect confirmation that at least calling to OFR was wrong.
I have also to answer to lukas086 from the other discussion: nothing to reply. You are saying everything by yourself, thinking that I'm Marciniak fan (please go back to read comments in the period when he was extremely poor), and I based the handball depending on the referee involved. Shocking! I would have written the same thing for all referees involved. All readers that know me by years I think that will not have doubts about that. The passion for refereeing allows me to go on with this blog, otherwise I would have closed by years.
But again, why focusing on such argument without reporting your opinion? This is what I don't understand, as you want to control me and other people here, what is the reason? That's a blog for refereeing, that's not UEFA. I don't know Marciniak personally, I never talked to him, but to be honest I was not even obliged to reveal that!
Just delete such idiotic comments and don't reply, it's the best way of dealing with such accusations.
DeleteThe Assistant VAR, Ivan Bebek of Croatia, has also been stood down by UEFA.
ReplyDeleteNo, Bebek is still shown as VAR for BENINT on UEFA's website
DeleteSource : https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39004039/uefa-stands-var-psg-handball-penalty-vs-newcastle?_nocache
DeleteI think this source is better :) https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2039160--benfica-vs-inter/matchinfo/
DeleteI know :)
DeleteLet me reinforce that in my opinion a potential mistakes come exclusively by the law itself which is unclear and too much flexible case by case, but I would like to ask a direct question and I'm sorry if you have already answered because I didn't red all the comments on previous post (MD5 I): After Kwiatkowski's replacement In your opinion who has the main responsibility of the penalty? VAR who asked for an OFR or Marciniak who pointed the spot after viewing the images on the screen ?
ReplyDeleteTo me, if the central referee still has the ownership to take the final decision, it's Marciniak.
This time it's mostly on Kwiatkowski, because he didn't give Marciniak the best angle to show the clear touch on the body. It's always the VAR's responsibilty to find the correct angles, and unfortunately he failed in this regard
DeleteI would say the referee still has the main responsibility.
DeleteHowever you could say, that the VAR did the bigger mistake, because it clearly wasn't a clear and obvious error, but it's less clear, that giving the penalty was wrong.
You are right Elliot, VAR is responsible for choosing the best angle and view among different images and cameras; so the central referee is judging on what VAR is showing him. That's important.
DeleteThey were assessing such penalties as 100% correct last season. Even more, they demanded them to be given. Now, they apparently changed the approach and don't want such handballs to be given. It's OK. Was it openly communicated to referees? If yes, then deserved suspension. If no, and Kwiatkowski is punished for something he couldn't avoid - causing a media storm after a problematic incident that he correctly assessed according to hitherto methodology - then UEFA is a sad bunch of anti-refereeing clowns. The one thing is clear: they are full of slogans about football world, etc. but don't care about transparency at all. If the instructions had changed, why not to publish an article about it? How people are supposed to understand it when such penalty would've been deemed 100% correct last season?
ReplyDeleteSpot on
Delete100% correct, just look at the confusion and heated debates in a refereeing forum, imagine the media and normal football fan trying to understand it, nightmare.
DeleteThe fact that Kwiatkowski is pulled off the games doesn’t say everything. The only sure thing is that it was a controversial decision and crucial for the standings in this group.
ReplyDeleteHandsballs are not black/white and they will be never be. Some people approach handballs as a sort of science and they deem every arm not tight to the body as ‘punishable’. However, strictly according to the LOTG, this is not a punishable handball IMO. The position of the arm is "natural" for the body movement. Reflections and context must be taken into account as well imo. Without the reflection you are more likely to "blame" the defender. Without a deflection the handling is more likely to be avoidable. But in this situation we have to ask ourselves: what ELSE could the Newcastle player have done in this particular situation? Nothing. Just nothing.
Context and common sense (what do football fans expect?) are relevant. Many VAR’s are hiding too much behind rules and protocols instead of feeling the game or applying ‘common sense’.
Another important question is: should we expect VAR to get involved? It was surely not “clear and obvious”.
Marciniak’s position in front of the screen is extremely complicated. He can expect anger and abuse by a top club (PSG) if he rejects the VAR advice. In the first place, it is a mistake by Kwiatkowski, who puts his colleague in an impossible position.
One detail that CAN add another layer of pressure on referees and VAR’s is that some referees were not supported in the past, after taking a decision that wasn’t exactly in PSG’s favor (even when the decision was deemed correct).
Do we think this handball would be called by VAR if it had happened in the other box?
Week 6 preview (group of death)
ReplyDelete- PSG wins -> PSG #1 and Dortmund #2, based on PSG's former result against Dortmund. In other words: Dortmund still have something to play for (!) and obviously don’t want to lose.
- PSG draws and Newcastle wins -> Newcastle ends #2 and PSG #3, based on Newcastle's positive results vs. PSG.
- PSG draws and Milan wins -> PSG ends #2 and Milan #3, based on Milan's negative results vs. PSG.
- Milan vs Newcastle draw -> PSG ends #2 despite of their own result.
- PSG loses -> 100% dependent on the results in the other game.
- Even Milan can still qualify if they manage to win + Dortmund win their game against PSG. Crazy :)
The MD6 referees must be extremely trusted by UEFA, however there aren’t many options available.
Dortmund vs PSG: Vinčić? (Referee observer from Holland)
Milan vs Newcastle: that one is difficult to predict. Zwayer or Dias?
You have only the three mentioned referees as options, nobody else. Zwayer possible only with Newcastle - Milan, then Vincic or Dias in Dortmund. Since the Portuguese has a game on this MD, committee wouldn't have taken the risk before a so crucial assignment ---> one can think only about the Slovenian.
Delete@Chefren,
DeleteMaybe, this is the reason why Soares Dias is observed by Vassaras >> to check his level and assign him to the crucial Milan-Newcastle game. I don’t see the Portuguese as a boarderline Euro name tbh.
Vincic on the PSG game seems obvious, like you said, this appointment has been made before MD5, so likely not a MD5 name
Makkelie in Newcastle? why not?
DeleteMakkelie would be a sensible choice in Milan-Newcastle if PSG already managed to qualify.
DeleteHowever PSG have everything in own hands. Just win and it does not matter who referees the other game. Right?
In reality, if PSG draws, they are dependent on results in the other game. Imagine a PK is whistled to Newcastle and PSG is out… I can see the rotten club from Paris blame the referee in the other game instead of looking at theirselves. Therefore, maybe not sensible.
very poor weather in istanbul doubts if game can go ahead
ReplyDeleteJoke the UYL game went ahead aswell should have been abandoned
ReplyDelete15' definitely not a punishable handball, but with De Burgos you can expect everything...
ReplyDeleteCorrect decision!
DeleteCan someone explain to me the interdependence between UEFA Referee categorization (Elite, First, Second) and the FIFA International Referees list. Is one of them regarded higher? Can a UEFA Second category referee be on the FIFA International Referees list? What does it mean, if a referee is on one, but not on the other?
ReplyDeleteThank you!
For being on UEFA categories, you must be a FIFA referee.
DeleteFIFA is the world organization of football, while UEFA is the European confederation.
All the FIFA referees coming from European countries, and so UEFA, are categorized, both men and women.
So FIFA list comes before but to be a UEFA categorized referee you must belong to FIFA.
Impossible to see a FIFA referee from Europe without UEFA categorization and impossible to see a UEFA categorized referee without the badge.
So, on paper UEFA still depends on FIFA, but in recent times there were some evident changes in this regard, and in my opinion, by giving some signals like the UEFA badge to their referees, UEFA showed a bit more autonomy than the past, or at least that's what they would do.
In addition, UEFA can appoint NO FIFA referee in their games in certain roles (mostly these choices are demanded to federations inside the teams appointed) with the UEFA badge, but they are not categorized on the UEFA system, since thye aren't in FIFA panel.
Possible first YC not given. Not absolutely mandatory (not clearly reckless or SPA) but a lenient signal from Sanchez.
ReplyDeletevery good offside decision by AR1, disallowing 2:2.
ReplyDeleteCorrectly disallowed goal by VAR in Seville for a handball in the APP.
ReplyDelete39’ In Sevilla, after Var-intervention, home team’s second goal disallowed for a punishable handball in the attacking phase (midfield). A clearly correct decision. It seems there was no Ofr though, but the decision made by Var.
ReplyDeleteBut no OFR is very strange, because this still is an subjective call.
DeleteOr am I missing something?
That’s what I was wondering as well. Though it was a very clear subjective call (hand far away and above shoulder level), it still is subjective. Not the typical “offender immediately scoring a goal scenario”. Maybe for such clear cases Uefa makes an exemption?
DeleteCorrect second YC by Massa.
ReplyDeleteClip: https://dubz.co/v/9sdhh8
DeleteThank you for the clip Quilava. I think the defender here is a little unlucky that he can't fully stop himself, atleast he's fully aware of what's coming haha, correct decision but you could technically also not choose to caution here depending on the game (difficult to see speed of the challenge on a slowed down replay).
DeleteFully correct YC here for me. Just like the commentators said: "a needless lunge". As MX said, Ocampos' reaction says it all.
Delete5' wrong offside flag by Treimanis AR2 in Lisbon. Evident ONSIDE, VAR intervention and goal allowed. Mistakes that shouldn't happen for assistant referees at this level.
ReplyDeleteIIRC, Treimanis had big problems with his ARs' mistakes back when he was 'actively' in the race for Elite promotion :/
DeleteGood OFR in Braga, YC for reckless changed in RC for SFP.
ReplyDeleteStuds up from behind, but I would say some time ago this wouldn't have been VAR stuff.
36' Same handball situation in London. Decision: no penalty
ReplyDeleteBut if this were against PSG...
And what is right decision? I expect commentators from last night! What a disgrace for UEFA.
DeleteAhahaha is this possible? No penalty for Lens after handball from Havertz, but the same situation last night was PK for PSG. How is it possible that 2 same situations were considered differently???
ReplyDeleteHave you ever heard of the word "mistake" :)
DeleteWhat was mistake? Last night or tonight? Explain me.
DeleteLast night, obviously
DeleteAnd tonight was a mistake too, imo.
DeletePenalty should have been given / Martins should have intervened.
https://streamin.me/v/cf6b387b
ReplyDeleteHere straight RC after OFR in Turpin game, well done by VAR.
Meanwhile indeed, very similar situation to PSG handball in Arsenal - Lens, at least we have further confirmation that Polish VAR made a mistake...
Even more confirmation when Soares Dias after the check signalled it came off his own body :)
DeleteThen, how is t possible that the best referee in the World Marciniak gave such a penalty??? It was not decision from VAR ref, he made it! If the best ref make such a big mistake after re watching situation, what can we expect from others?
DeleteLens should have been awarded a penalty imo. Havertz blocked a shot by clearly enlarging his body surface, and the ball took a ricochet off his knee up onto his outstreched arm as it was still travelling to goal.
DeleteParis is a clear example of a deflection making a handball NOT punishable, and Arsenal a perfect case of where a penalty should still be given. Pity the officials got them the wrong way around...
@Mikael +1
DeleteI can't say that your considerations are wrong, Nole.
DeleteThat's why yesterday I had a certain approach, you can't expect both VAR at first and then referee with a so evident mistake.
I don't really think it was a big mistake by Kwiatkowski and Marciniak, it's something that seems, at least, "pretty close" to other situations where UEFA has supported a penalty. UEFA has been very strict about handballs recently, too strict if you ask me. I'm quite surprised they didn't like the one given yesterday, all things considered, and I think the match officials must be surprised, too.
DeleteVery challenging game for Turpin, now mobbed after a penalty appeal for hanbdall by Braga. Strongly invited to monitor by players.
ReplyDeleteCorrect decision by VAR to consider the arm in natural position, defender even tried to remove it.
Today it looks all clear about handballs...
Definitely a NO GAME for Dias in London, the score in Lens had been incredible if compared to today. The Portuguese can be appointed again on MD6 I think, and committee will be very happy about that...
ReplyDeleteA good first half by Letexier in RMA - NAP. Close to ideal foul detection for me, good technical body language (remaining in the shadow).
ReplyDelete17' a great no foul call from Letexier, Real attacker looking for a foul after a bad touch and wins a lot of trust by not giving these sorts of free kicks, then situation afterwards decides to give advantage in defending half where Napoli was under press, optimal thing here is to give a free kick to Napoli after seeing no advantage could be given (now created a slightly confusing situation where Napoli stopped playing because fouled player was down, but when Letexier blew his whistle he got up), nothing major.
Great verbal warning to Kroos for me as well, late foul but not enough for a YC and not needed in this type of game, Letexier seems to have good acceptance from the players so far.
Also a great game with some amazing goals so far, let's see if he can keep it up in the second half.
First YC early in the second half, reckless, okay for me, not mandatory but good timing (had been a lot of fouls from Napoli and was just one foul from them 30 seconds before which was also late).
Delete58’ medium dissent from Carvajal, not punished by Letexier. Okay for me, not necessary in this game.
64’ a late follow through after winning the ball from Rudiger, studs up and high point of contact but low force, missed mandatory free kick + yellow for me, VAR no intervention is correct for me but optimal here is probably FK + YC for reckless.
75’ PK situation for RMA not given by Letexier, to be honest I must say AMAZING decision for me, attacker waits for defender to crash into him, instantly afterwards NAP player goes down after a tackle by Kroos. Game management wise this was smart to not whistle here (”1-1” in fouls) BUT it was a foul and a pretty clear one and should have prpbably whistled it.
Delete75' should ideally have been a YC for a dive, I think. Otherwise I agree.
Delete89’ YC for simulation against NAP by Letexier, it’s NEVER a penalty but simulation might be slightly harsch, however not a single protest by Napoli and neither by the player Cajuste, a great call of no foul, slightly harsch for simulation but definitely not wrong considering Cajuste throws himself before the contact comes.
DeleteSolid game from Letexier, manages the game without any major controversial decisions, not that it was expected anyways. I think his style is decent for these types of games, very calm and assertive.
DeleteHis foul detection today was optimal in the first half, second half felt more pick and choose but he did it with a purpose (found the fouls when game needed it to become balanced). This approach worked pretty well today, some examples of this was playing through 60/40 challenges and then whistling a 50/50 challenge the situation afterwards, this happened a couple of times and caused some irritation but still made the game flow without overheating. At times this did not work where obvious fouls were missed (missed FK for NAP after no PK for RMA) but nothing major.
Good card management, only issuing when game needed it, GREAT decisions in crucial moments (two big penalty appeals, first washed out and second YC for simulation). As @Philipp S said, perhaps even a YC in the first PK appeal but no card and no penalty is for me the optimal decision. Would have also been the optimal decision for me in the end (89th minute, game very calm) but definitely not wrong and maybe even allowed Letexier to remain in full control through the end.
Also liked his movement on the field, haven't seen a referee run that much in a while to be honest, feels like he was everywhere when needed and not in the way ever (backing out of situations very well). All in all, a solid performance and a very entertaining game with a good Letexier in the lead.
After watching the game, I can fully agree with MX's excellent analysis, although I have to say the YC for simulation in 89' was a very good decision for me. Cajuste was the one who initiated the contact with Carvajal by throwing himself before, I'm sure he had every opportunity to avoid that contact.
Delete64' foul by Rudiger stays as the biggest mistake for me: it was absolutely reckless and a mandatory YC was missed there (also the foul itself).
I don't think it was simulation I think he was just avoiding the contact, there was no appeal, play on is fine for me. Rudiger clear yellow/ orange (lack of force the key mitigation)
Delete51', another VAR intervention in Lisbon and still AR2 involved. Wrong offside flag, also in this case it was clearly ONSIDE. Not even in line but slightly behind. To be honest the Latvian assistant referees are not at level for Champions League games, one must be honest. There was another mistake in first half by AR1 leading to a chance to score and then luckily only a corner.
ReplyDeleteVery clear penalty whistled by Treimanis to Inter, not accepted by Benfica players, I think they were protesting for something happened before (I didn't watch), but no doubts about the penalty. Very long VAR check.
ReplyDeleteYes, there was a possible foul in the APP.
DeleteBrief check for a penalty in Munich. Good decision imo from Frappart
ReplyDeleteRed card in Lisbon. Odd one, understand that it was potentially dangerous given the way the Inter player's ankle bends but for me not a clear error
ReplyDeleteI agree. Nobody expected a red card, not even Barella. Not the best two days for Bebek...
DeleteYes not all VARs would have intervened, assesses as SFP by Bebek not for the point of contact, but for how the player entered with both legs into opponent... one can wonder whether clear and obvious mistake because it is rarely called by VAR something like that... to follow, Treimanis lost a bit the control of the game, overall not a good impression in a game without real importance for both teams.
DeleteYes, SFP is only supportable, but not expected or mandatory, so it's re-refereeing by the VAR.
DeleteBebek is (still) Bebek! :D. He didn't flinch from (continuing) to send off Fenerbahce players for wild fouls even if it led to him losing elite status afterwards, as one example from his career.
DeleteRC is the more correct decision for flying/dangerous tackle but agree with Philipp, "re-refereeing intervention" indeed.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I like this RC decision a lot. Like you guys say it might not be VAR material to overturn a YC in UEFA but IMO this is more RC than YC.
DeleteI agree with Mikael on this one: the reason why I prefer a RC for this tackle is its "flying" nature, making it dangerous for the opponent's safety. However, the intervention itself does seem wrong given the "clear and obvious" clause.
DeleteGood OFR in Munich, no handball penalty is correct. Clear messages sent today.
ReplyDeleteI am not so convinced. The ball touches the arm - and not the body - first, also in the punishable area. And there is no clear justification to have the arm raised that high.
DeleteAs long as those are not consistently not given, I think, that an OFR for that is rather wrong, because it is at most grey area (and contrary to Marciniak it can't be seen as "missed incident").
Agree with Ref_1707, clearly no penalty. Good intervention.
DeleteBall touches the arm first but it was in a natural position. Normal movement.
DeleteI think we all know what UEFA thinks about yesterday‘s handball penalty.
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DeleteTo add some arguments to my comments - yes the arm is 'high' but the ball strikes him on the armpit, body surface not enlarged at all, already heading for the chest anyway. Poor decision by Frappart in the first place; she must have guessed.
DeleteI don't see the relation to last night's events in THIS incident though, to be honest.
Ah, body surface not enlarged is a good argument, then it doesn't really matter, whether the arm position was natural or not.
DeleteThis at least makes no penalty the better decision in my view, although I am still not convinced, that all UEFA Elite referees won't give a penalty here. (And this is no reference to yesterday, but to the general line for handball penalties...)
@Mikael W, do you think this is a clear mistake to call for OFR? Noting that even though the ball first touched the arm, I am not quite sure if this is a penalty or not. We can find reasons to support any decision for this incident.
DeleteI would argue so, yes. "Stéphanie has guessed" and +90'/sooo key call are also factors which exist, even if one can't read them in the protocol or guidelines. The most satisfying conclusion was reached here (imo intervention on Meler was exaggerated though as it was a defendable foul call).
DeleteThe game in Munich at moment is very crucial for qualification but I think, given the appointment, that committee had a different idea... well..
ReplyDelete27 November at 14.51 I mentioned UEFA underestimated Group A. Unfortunately Frappart was not satisfying. Last minute penalty is debatable as someone might say first the ball touched the arm, other might say it came from the body. She didn't seem confident at pitch. This was the main problem. Day 6 Group A need two top elite referees. Especially in Copenhagen.
DeleteIn this position, it is clearly seen that the ball first hits the arm and then the body. ALSO THE ARMS ARE NOT IN THEIR NATURAL POSITION. If you play this type of positions, from now on all the players' arms will be in the air in the penalty area. I didn't understand why VAR called the referee in this position. I didn't understand why the referee made the wrong decision based on the position. The referees are not doing well.
Deletehttps://streamable.com/8ttio0
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DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletePenalty removed by VAR in Munich: https://dubz.co/v/pd7n5d
ReplyDeleteI rewatched mny times before commenting, but to me this is doubtful because I see that ball touches arm before and then body, not clear to me shouldn't be clear and obvious mistake.
DeleteI don't have evidence that VAR had in calling referee.
I agree. As in Meler's situation, there is no clear evidence for VAR to call the ref for OFR.
DeleteVery interesting, after my comments yesterday I would have to say this is a penalty but for me this is more of natural movement of the arm and therefore natural position, regardless of deflection or not. For me optimal call is no penalty but OFR feels wrong because it's atleast supportable imo.
DeleteA good VAR intervention and clear no handball decision for me. Although the arm is high, it's in a natural position for his movement and, most importantly, not enlarging the body surface at all, which I consider the most important factor here. It practically hits him on the armpit, so the outcome on the ball trajectory would have been the same if it just hit his chest.
DeleteThe (no) handball in Munich. It looks like the ball hits the arm before the body and the arm is away from the body. In England, never, in Uefa, I'm unsure, but surprised that the VAR got involved (clear and obvious?). Then, a clear handball for a late Bayern FK not given (possibly on Frappart blindside) which further riled Bayern. A mixed game for team Frappart
ReplyDeleteAny suggestions about Balakin?
ReplyDeleteFor me a clear, cool and still friendly (yes, this is a category imho) performance.
Both teams tried to play football and didn't fuss around. They didn't make it too complicated for thr refs.
Yep, he was almost a spectator tonight.
DeleteGood job! The referee was invisible and the teams played football, it's cool
Deletehttps://dubz.co/v/bs8pmh
ReplyDeleteOFR in Lisbon for SFP, I think mistake by Bebek, or at least we rarely see something like that changed in straight RC.
Many protests after the final whistle against Treimanis. Not the cal game one could have guessed given the context... but some decisions contributed to the confusion.
Agree,but at the end of the day,Treimanis is the one who makes the call,not Bebek.
DeleteIt is his mistake maybe to call him,but Treimanis is the one who has the last word.
Again same old Treimanis with same old problems-not enough autorititave,too much mixed criterium and no clear line.
There was also a late penalty for Arsenal after OFR. Apparently given for handball, but IMO there was a clearer foul (careless striking) in the same situation.
ReplyDeleteAbout the handball: Well, the arm was in that position, because he used it against his opponent - not sure whether that is a valid justification for a natural position...
In the end, not too important whether foul or handball - Soares Dias should have seen it live and Martins intervened correctly.
I'm doing clips now! :)
DeleteYesterday we had the isolated and extra ordinary case of Paris regaridng the handball, but today the quality of officiating, given also the number of OFRs, has been worse. Definitely too many controvesial incidents, and in some cases I think wrong interventions.
ReplyDeleteThe red card shouldn't have been called in Treimanis game, my opinion, it complicated more the already challenging context for the Latvian.
Not clear as well why penalty in Munich was removed, more generally in a so crucial game you put a referee without CL games on this season, coming from LIE - LUX of Euro Qualifiers with a VAR intervention for a very clear RC... well... I didn't want to comment on some choices but now I'm forced to do so. Rather a very poor management in this group by committe and more than absurd choices, Nobre before Frappart, for Bayern's games at home.
They expected the German side to win easily all games, but this wasn't the case... definitely.
Something to be reviewed also in Braga and London, while I think that Balakin had the debut he expected, easy game, not challenged at all.
Still the positive notes coming from Letexier, now even going unnoticed in his good path, and that's excellent for him, Massa, and Sanchez Martinez. The Spanish at the end maybe is not so far away from Gil Manzano in terms of performances. I don't know what you think in this regard...
MD6 will certainly require highly skilled elite referees for the decisive matches. I anticipate that Makkelie, Orsato, Turpin and Vincic will be appointed. Following PSG’s match yesterday and some of the debatable decisions made tonight, the committee is likely to opt for safe hands.
ReplyDeleteOn the topic of the OFR in Munich, I feel like I always have diffuculty seeing if the ball hits the arm or sleeve. The undershirt perhaps should be a different color from the kit only at the upper arm. That way the upper arm section is half kit sleeve half undershirt of a different color. The rest of the undershirt by the forearm would be the same as the kit. Obviously wouldn't look as fashionable but oh well. Maybe I'm just colorblind.
ReplyDeleteIn this position, it is obvious that both of McTominay's arms are not in the normal position. McTominay's left arm moves towards the ball and blocks it. This is a clear penalty. Additionally, Onana's uncontrolled move towards Torreira from behind in the same position could have been a PK.
ReplyDeletehttps://streamable.com/k238pz
Well, after many interesting incidents in this matchday this is the one which is closest to 50-50 imo. On the one hand, McTominay blocks a shot with arms away from his body, on the other, the ball took an unexpected deflection and how 'un-tense' his arms are do hint towards an involuntary/accidental handball.
DeleteI'm more in favour of play on and especially given Sánchez's clear gestures, definitely correct non-intervention imo. I don't see any foul by the goalkeeper after that.
Yes, quite difficult situation - also the available pictures are not the best.
DeleteIt looks like the player actually reacts to the shot by moving his arms backwards.
Whether he thereby increases the chance to block the ball is quite hard to see - but actually a very important factor here.
I'm definitely more for play on in this situation: McTominay seems to be trying to move his arm behind his back in anticipation of the shot and the eventual handball seems to be me accidental. However, as Philipp says, maybe this movement of the arm actually increased the chance to block the ball by hand. Definitely a difficult situation for this reason, but my decision would have been the same as Sanchez's.
DeletePenalty area incidents for Portuguese refs in Arsenal vs. Lens:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.streambug.io/cv/c23fdb
https://www.streambug.io/cv/21928a
https://www.streambug.io/cv/df4fa6
First situation comparable to Marciniak handball situation yesterday, this time more of a "deliberate play" from his own body BUT the hand is in an unnatural position before the movement is made, therefore according to law this is a penalty. Maybe UEFA clarifies their guidelines here by not whistling? Either this situation is correct or the situation yesterday was correct when talking about deflection, HOWEVER, the situation yesterday could've been incorrect for another reason than the deflection (arm in natural position due to movement of body), the same can't be said in this situation, for me: penalty.
DeleteSecond situation is 50/50, but if the keeper wins the ball and has the vision for the ball, I find these situations to be best to go towards the goalkeeper (no PK), correct assessment in my opinion.
Third situation quite unfortunate, a penalty you don't want to whistle but is forced to, contact with arm is too clear (almost looks like elbow). Less force and you can play on, but this is unfortunately for the defender, a clear foul and therefore a PK, correct decision after OFR for me.
First incident is a clear (clear) penalty - Havertz enlarges his body surface to block the shot, his arm is so close to his knee it could more-or-less be considered the same action anyway(!), and the deflection doesn't take much pace off the ball, it is the handling which does that. Too poor, sorry, that VMOs can't leave 'Paris' from their horizon to take what was in reality a fairly routine decision. The more I watch it, the worse it gets! We are talking about a pretty scandalous error tbh (on content rather than context, this is a much worse mistake that Marciniak/Kwiatkowski imo).
DeleteSlow-motion (HERE: https://www.streambug.io/cv/69cbfd) reveals that the second incident isn't 50/50 but actually a 100% correct play on. Immediately after the attacker heads it forward, the goalkeeper makes a clear block on the ball. This is how come the ball spins exactly straight upwards into the air. Any contact after that is of an incidental / normal-footballing mode. Correct play on.
Final scene is two clear offences in quick succession. The striking is on the borderline to reckless, but 'common-sense' (even besides the score) says that penalty alone and no (S)YC is enough. Correct penalty/intervention, hard one to spot live for Soares Dias according to the 'expectation/perception/recognition' principle I spoke about in the past.
1) For me, this is a punishable handball and penalty. IMO, Havertz enlarged his body surface with an outstretched arm, blocking a ball traveling to the goal. I understand this does seem similar to the incident from yesterday, due to the deflection in both cases, however let me emphasise what is, at least for me, a clear difference: in this situation we have a deflection (not deliberate play, IMO) which doesn't "negate" the following handball in any way. Havertz is still responsible for his outstretched hand and the consequences of enlarging his body surface. What's more, as Mikael states, it is the handball that has a real impact on the ball, not deflection. On the other hand, yesterday it was the opposite: we had a natural position of the arm (at least for me) and a deflection which had a real effect on the ball, not the accidental handball that happened after. So, all things considered, I agree with Mikael in assessing this as a clear mistake by Soares Dias and VAR, and I have the same opinion about the incident from yesterday, although I admit it's the absolutely vague guidelines that are the real problem here and I may be completely wrong about yesterday. (Sorry, I used this comment to post my opinion about Marciniak's penalty as my free time yesterday was more than limited.)
Delete2) Correct play on for me as well: the GK clearly blocked the ball after the header and punched it out, with the subsequent contact being a normal football collision, nothing more for me.
3) Two clear offences, you can choose which one to punish, however it's the striking that comes first, and it's definitely punishable. I agree that it's borderline reckless, but still "unfortunate" enough for the offender to be saved from a YC. Regarding Dias, it was probably too unexpected and quick to properly perceive, with maybe a suboptimal viewing angle. To conclude, a good VAR intervention and correct final decision for me.
Yes, Havertz’ handling is not comparable to the Paris one at all. This is how you deliberately control the ball with your arm. Havertz can see the ball coming and had plenty of time to do something else.
DeleteGood point about the deflection that does not take much pace away from the ball unlike in Paris
I gave up with handballs, in the first case the arm is surely in an innatural position, so maybe the previous deflection doesn't play a big role (that's what Mikael wanted to say, I think, and I can absolutely understand this point of view) but in this first incident it is interesting to underline the attitude of Soares Dias, not the best in my opinion. Standing still at the edge of penalty area, rather expecting to assess something in favor of his view, but incident happened where he couldn't do anything. Maybe a better reaction would have helped?
DeleteLast incident: WOW, never seen before. Handball and careless (at least) use of arms. You can make your choice, but quite serious to miss that. This has been the Portuguese's problem for years, in some games, Soares Dias had VAR interventions for very evident stuff. Despite of final score (in the meaning that it was rather easy duty in London), the referee didn't seem enthusiast to officiate... I don't expect another appointment for him, at least based on this last (and absolutely correct) OFR.
Not sure did you see first goal of Galatasaray from free kick! Two Galata players were just beside the wall and they should be at least 1 meter from the wall. In fact, they were standing in the wall, and moved right before Ziyech kicked the ball - the ball went just right there. Sanchez needed to see that! I don't know whether tis is VAR staff.
ReplyDeleteWithout having seen the incident, this is most likely one of the rules not super enforced by referees on the elite level. The same way the 6 second rule is ignored, although you see referees call for 1 meter (sometimes), I don't think they have to be super strict about it.
DeleteI think they where just 1m. Same as Sterlings goal vs Newcastle in the premier league on saturday. Looked like they where stood right in the wall. Nothing wrong for Simon Hooper
DeleteGalatasaray's Coach Okan Buruk: "There was an excellent referee on the field for an away team. He always whistled for MANU in all positions in the middle. Also, when we score a goal, they examine the player up to his ear and cancel our goal, but in the Bayern match, they gave the goal against us without drawing an offside line."
ReplyDeleteWe have been watching the miserable state of UEFA referees for 2 days. The funny penalty given by UEFA's best referee yesterday clearly summarizes the current situation of referees. Each referee has different interpretations of handball positions. UNBELIEVABLE.
ReplyDeleteNow it's time to face the truth.
The referees selected and educated by Collina are slowly retiring. Unfortunately, Rosetti-Ceferin misused Collina's referees and could not reveal new referees. The pitiful situation of their most trusted referees is also obvious. One of the main reasons for this situation is that Rosetti-Ceferin appoints referees based on lobbying rather than performance like Collina. These are good days for UEFA refereeing. I am sure that we will soon encounter referees who do not know the rules. Worse days await us.
Normally, when a controversial incident has occurred like in Paris, the Refcom would instantly send Orsato, Turpin (or Makkelie in his peak) to Newcastle. The best refs under the strongest pressure.
ReplyDeleteBack in the days: Cakir, Kuipers, Brych, Clattenburg, Webb.
Now, the best names are obviously not available and they are left with:
Vincic, who will likely stay in the background, not leading the game, not making big calls to avoid controversy at all costs
Or Soares Dias (his VAR couldn’t spot a simple handball),
Or Zwayer, he might have a good season so far, but not the biggest palmares if we are talking about crucial/decisive games.
Predictions MD6:
ReplyDeleteCopenhagen - Galatasaray: Orsato
Manchester United - Bayern Munich: Turpin
Porto - Shakhtar: Taylor
BVB Dortmund - PSG: Vincic
Newcastle United - Milan: Makkelie
My prediction for MD6, considering, standing, qualifying permutation, neutrality and MD5 appointment:
ReplyDeleteTo me the hugest matches are:
MANCHESTER UNITED - BAYERN MUNCHEN: B. BASTIEN (Bayern is already qualified)
COPENAGHEN - GALATASARAY: F. ZWAYER (direct clash and Bayern already qualified)
BORUSSIA DORTMUND - PARIS S. GERMAIN: S. VINCIC (no need comment :-))
NEWCASTLE - MILAN I. KRUZLIAK (maybe his real top top clash but it seems that this year he is performing very well and he is well trainied)
PORTO - SHAKTHAR D. : M. OLIVER (direct clash)
"Second class" matches
LENS - SIVIGLIA: SIEBERT
NAPOLI - BRAGA: COLLUM
SALZBURG-BENFICA: STIELER
"Soft matches" (maybe)
PSV- ARSENAL: MARIANI
U. BERLIN - REAL MADRID: SIDIROPOLUS
INTER - REAL SOCIEDAD: EKSAS
LIPSIA - YOUNG BOYS: PINHEIRO
RED STAR - M CITY: GIL MANZANO
ANTERPWH - BARCELONA: TOHVER
What do you think about the following suggestion for VAR interventions regarding handball?
ReplyDelete1) If the referee awards a penalty for handball, the VAR only intervenes, if the ball doesn't touch the arm or if it is very clearly (as in: there won't be any discussions among referee experts) not punishable.
2) If the referee doesn't award a penalty:
a) If the referee has seen the contact with the arm, the VAR only intervenes, if it is very clearly punishable.
b) If the referee hasn't seen the contact with the arm, the VAR always recommends an OFR unless it is very clearly not punishable.
This would acknowledge the reality, that there is a big grey area and therefore it mostly is a subjective decision, which should always be taken by the referee.
Looks good!
DeleteI would change 2b to): the VAR only recommends an OFR if clear and obvious punishable, otherwise we will still see too many doubtful PK’s for handball after an OFR as many referees are likely to whistle a penalty when they are standing in front of the screen
Sure bets:
ReplyDelete- Dortmund-PSG: Vincic
- Porto-Shakthar: Oliver
- Newcastle-Milan, I’m leaning towards Soares Dias based on his observer yesterday.
- Man Utd-Bayern: I don’t expect a top name like Turpin here. Rather a name like Peljto.
- Napoli-Braga could be Gil Manzano. Although I hope he gets a less important game after the Ukraine-match. Otherwise it feels like another “reward”…
- Inter-Sociedad and Atletico-Lazio are battles for the first place. The games can be heated. Do we expect top names here? I’m not sure. Could be a nice opportunity for a new promoted (Peljto) or boarderline EURO name (Kruzliak, Gözübüyük).
I saw the prediction made by 'f' above, and you know something ... going with Kruzliak in Newcastle-Milan could be a good idea. I would "risk" but it is not even such a big risk after all. Kruzliak performed fairly well so far and was closely monitored. I trust him to lead this game. It would solve many of the problems for the Com. Vincic is BVB-PSG is almost 100%.
ReplyDeleteNot mentioned here yet, but after the full time whistle Massa has sended off, with a straight RC, Fernando from Sevilla. It wasn't good visible on tv. In a blink you could see the red card in the back ground.
ReplyDeleteon the site of the UEFA the RC is confirmed but no reason is mentioned. I guess it won't be for a friendly remark about the performance of Massa or giving a hint for a good restaurant after wards. So most logical it will be for some comments.
RC for violent conduct eg would have caused a mobbing or more attention on TV.
Maybe Fernando gave a really bad restaurant recommendation.. ;)
DeleteAfter Ukraine - Italy, I don't think Gil Manzano will appear again with teams / club involving Italy, so I would rule him out from Napoli - Braga.
ReplyDeleteAt moment there are some good options for this game, committee has more flexibility, in my opinion this suits more to Kruzliak than Milan's gam,e (answering to some comments above). But first of all, let's watch the Slovakian today. There are also other options for the game in Naples, one could even say Nyberg.
I think UEFA is unhappy with Marciniak's decision in the PSG-Newcastle match. They even think that VAR's intervention in that position was wrong. We saw the most important evidence of this clearly in the champions league matches 1 day later (ARS-LEN; BAY-COP; GAL-MANU). VAR and referees were very timid in handball positions. This caused new complications and injustices.
ReplyDeleteI agree and having seen Marciniak's situation from every single angle and multiple times, my stance has changed. For me it's natural position, deflection or not makes no difference in the situation for me. This situation regardless of hitting the arm directly or not, is at MOST supportable, therefore VAR calling out Marciniak is for me: completely wrong, Marciniak's decision is unfortunate, he is pretty much locked once called out but the optimal, and for me the "more" correct thing here is: no penalty. That's based on the natural movement of the arm, I still see it as supportable but definitely not a clear and obvious error and for penalties you generally want it to be leaning towards a clear penalty, you should never give the "50/50" ones or the ones that are at most supportable, especially not if you have to change the on field decision...
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