Following an incident at tonight’s UEFA Champions League match between Paris Saint-Germain FC and Istanbul Basaksehir FK, UEFA has – after discussion with both clubs – decided on an exceptional basis to have the remaining minutes of the match played tomorrow with a new team of match officials. The kick-off has been set at 18:55 CET.
A thorough investigation on the incident that took place will be opened immediately.
Oh well... I feel sorry for Coltescu. You could argue that his behavior might have been influenced by this being his final international game, intervening asking for several cards for the Basaksehir bench and using this kind of careless words.
ReplyDeleteBut everyone will know his career because of this moment, and his already decided removal from the FIFA list will be portrayed in the media (especially the Turkish media) like a decision taken based on this incident.
I don't think episodes like this convinces more people to become referees, to say the least...
I disagree. I think that this is an amazing of opportunity for UEFA to sow that they are truly serious about being inclusive. And the "say no to Racism" is more than at cute badge that is worn on the sleeves of the jerseys.
Delete#ZeroTolerance #RedCardRacism
Why would you think this is amazing? Surely this guy is entitled to have his say on what happened? You seem to have found him guilty of this offence. Strange the coach only accused him of racism after he was shown the red card.
DeleteLook, I get it. Victim blaming is much easier than confronting racism. To each his own.
Delete#RedCardRacism
Pffffffffffff...
ReplyDeleteI understand the trouble UEFA is in. However, should we really accept that a team can decide on their own when they feel offended and be allowed to refuse playing or to force the removal of a referee from the match? I do not think so. This agreement is setting a very dangerous precedent. I would rather say that some punishment for Basaksehir is also due, though, understandably, UEFA prefers to avoid further discussions and close the accident like this.
ReplyDeleteReacting to racism isn’t a choice. This is not “being offended”. This is reacting to clear racism from Coltescu. @Chefren, there are many racist comments being made on this topic. Please remove them from your blog.
DeleteJack, please respect others' opinions instead of throwing insults and calling for removal... we know where you stand on this, and I respect your opinion, but please also respect the opinions of other readers.
DeleteThere are not "many racist comments", there are many comments that do not believe that the fourth officer had racist intentions or that what he seems to have said is actually racist, which is an entirely legitimate opinion given the situation. For the facts as we know them now, there could be racism or not, but definitely there is not "clear racism" in what happened. Assuming one's own opinion as the only legitimate one is really not helpful in such a difficult situation.
DeleteWhitesplain
DeleteWhitesplaining is the act of a white person explaining topics to people of color, often in an obliviously condescending manner, and especially regarding race- or injustice-related issues.
Jack, really? Removing comments just because they happen to not comform with your opinion? Then you are mad, because the racism is not taken seriously by some, but it is because of people like you, who throw the word "racism" at everything they do not agree with. The 4th Official used the Romanian word "negru" (black) to identify a person by describing the first thing he saw. His reaction would be the same if there were 10 black players and 1 white (he would say "the white player") or if someone was taller/shorter than all the others or was the only one with blond hair. He was not trying to be racist and it was a one big misunderstanding between all the involved parties.
DeleteNot saying all opinions are racist... simply stating that some comments that have been made on this topic haven’t been in the best taste in terms of being blog-appropriate
DeleteA police, Danny Makkelie.
ReplyDeleteThis is the new referee tomorrow
Danny Makkelie confirmed by UEFA to replace Hategan
ReplyDeleteWith his Mario Diks as AR 1, polish Marcin Boniek will be AR 2 and Bartosz Frankowski will be FO. Di Bello and Mariani stays as VAR team
DeleteMixed Dutch-Polish crew.
DeleteAccording to Dutch media, Makkelie's AR2 Steegstra can't be in Paris tomorrow due the absence of a recent negative covid-testresult
DeleteNew referee team:
ReplyDeleteReferee: Danny Makkelie (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Mario Diks (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Marcin Boniek (POL)
Fourth Official: Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
Video Assistant Referee: Marco Di Bello (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Maurizio Mariani (ITA)
Not all referees are educated and cultural. You cannot call someone black or white, blond or redhead, high or low, etc.
ReplyDeleteBut it is also true that the scandal was created, "an elephant out of a fly". There may have been irreverence, but not racism.
I will not say his name. But much like the recent incidents of racism and homophobia in the United States USL Championship. I hope that this reprehensible act by someone in an authority position gets all the media attention possible and that it reaches the four corners of the world.
ReplyDeleteI will not waste any time trying explain to you "enablers and apologists" why what he did is not acceptable. But I thank each and every one of you "enablers and apologists" for showing who deep down inside you truly are.
Red Card Racism, Hate, Bigotry, and Homophobia.
#ZeroTolerance
Let's supose there are 9 black players and 1 white player. The referee identify one of those 10 players as "the white one". Is this racism ?
DeleteAaahh it was quiet for a long time, but we have an incident which our friend can use to provoke, condemn and lecture the population of this blog and yes, there he is again.
DeleteThis!!!!!!!! People on here are racists, supporting racism and it hurts the more that they don't think they are doing anything wrong and they are within their rights, it's quite painful because calling black as a reference to my identification is not only racist but condescending to say the least. Some will say if they are addressed by the phrase white boy and they say nothing is wrong with it, is because never in their life have they experienced racism before, so entitled set of people. They are the ones that will say all lives matter when it is said black lives matter but they fail to understand that not all race suffer such prejudice
DeleteWhitesplain
DeleteWhitesplaining is the act of a white person explaining topics to people of color, often in an obliviously condescending manner, and especially regarding race- or injustice-related issues.
@chefren
DeleteI can't accept to say that I'm racist. One of my best friends (if not the best) is from Nigeria. He was my colleague when I was student. We slept in the same bed, ate from same plate. More than that, I am the godfather of his daughter (his wife is romanian). I can't accept to say that I'm racist. My friend knows very well romanian language and many times said about himself: ”sînt un român negru” (I am a black romanian).
No one called you a racist.. imagine highlighting being a friend to someone from Nigeria, I guess you deserve an award for that. We are defined by what we say and what you have said tonight speaks for itself. I repeat no one called you a racist
DeleteChiagozie, they say that they are "tired" of hearing about racism. Imagine how tiring it must be living it on a daily basis. These attitudes and these comments are coming from people who quite literally have no "skin" in the issue.
Delete@Chiagozie
DeleteWhen stating “ People on here are racists, supporting racism....”, which particular comments do you refer to? Because it really seems to be petschovschi who’s comment you react on.
petschovschi,
DeleteIf your friend accepts it, others might disagree. It shouldn't be an excuse not to think critically about it.
Honestly I wasn't even read much of his comments. When I said what I said I was referring to people subconsciously defending some acts which are racists. If you attend a sermina or reform centre against racism or homophobia you will be greatly surprised as what you see as a norm or okay is actually so racist and homophobic. We just need to learn more and get oriented. The world is changing fast and we need to keep up with the change if not we will be left behind
DeleteFirst of all everyone on this blog should take a dictionary and read what really means ”racism”.
DeleteIt's not racism to say ”Webo is black” or ”Messi is white”.
@petschovschi ei nu înțeleg degeaba le explici
DeleteÎnțeleg când aud și / sau văd un act rasist. Înțeleg că sunteți mai insultat de cuvinte precum diversitate și egalitate decât cuvintele rasiste rostite de acel arbitru.
DeleteIsn't Google Translate great? ;)
Thank you also for your respectful replies in the previous thread @ Marko23. I hope this comment finds you.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the area where I disagree is where you say it feels like [Contrescu] is defining the person by their skin color when he refers to him as "the black one." Don't get me wrong: it is very very realistic that, in some circumstances, someone referring to someone else as "black one" or as "the gay guy" (as you exemplify) can definitely be a case of them seeing them as defined by their skin color / sexual orientation, we can all imagine situations where they can be said like that. But, I don't think they should always be interpreted that way, context is important. I don't think your description matches how I see Contrescu using the phrase here. He called him "the black guy" purely as a practical matter, not because he sees him as less of a person. If he were to refer to someone as "the tall one," honest question, would you see that as him defining someone by their height? I wouldn't.
Does anyone, who has the full story, honestly believe that Contrescu sees Webo as someone who is defined solely by the color of their skin? If not, then what are we criticizing Contrescu for? For 'appearing', to someone without all the context, to hold those terrible prejudices? This is an error in communication, not an error of malice or prejudice against a particular race. The reaction / punishment should reflect that.
No I honestly believe that Contrescu was being racist to the assistant manager there but in this current climate, with all that has happened and is still happening when such a phrase is used it becomes sensitive and no one can decipher for sure what the intention of the person saying it is, so it's best you stay of such phrase. In old times some called a FAG is someone seen as gay but in our society today and all the homophobic apologist around, using that world is seen as nothing short of homophobic statement even if you just wanted to describe him or her as gay. Most of us here need to go for orientation and be properly brushed on racism, homophobia and we will be amazed at what we call normal or okay to us write now is indeed racist and homophobic and we will rethink
Delete#Whitesplaining
DeleteWas not***
Deletevery sensible comment. I would agree that - hopefully - he did not mean it intenionally just to hurt or insult anybody. also I can understand that he really didn't think about what he said in the second he said it. basakshehir played very hard and their technical area behaved absolutely poorly. a yellow card and a red card against the coaching staff after 12-13 minutes in an international match - where you hardly ever see cards against team officials - must stem from somewhere...still, this should not be an apology for the very very unclever behaviour and use of language, which could be misunderstood. it is natural he talks romanian with hategan, however this is something a top official must have in mind, even in tense pressure situations like this. those officials belong to the top 100 in entire europe...
Deletehowever, i am strictly against framing someone as a racist just by carelessly using a doubtful word in a tense pressure situation...for me this is a bit overcooked by some commentators here. we have no proof that the FO used this word on purpose to insult anyone or match any other criteria about what racism is...so we should be careful ourselves of not falsely accusing someone and also we should maybe take a deep breath and have a good night of sleep to digest and reflect what happened...
Modern < By the Book, so you are going to just call every comment you disagree with "whitesplaining" and think you won the argument? First of all, you do not even know if the person is white and second of all, by dissmissing someone's opinion beacuse of the colour of his skin, are you not doing the same thing you are fighting against?
Delete@Anonymous 00:39
DeleteIn the meantime we have a lot of experience with Mr Modern < By the Book and believe me, the best way of dealing with him is ignoring his comments, acting as if he’s not here. He’ll disappear and we’ll be left in peace until the next incident which he can use to provoke. That’s how it works for a long time now.
I may come and go. But thanks to the attitudes from the majority here. Something that will never go away will be racism.
Delete#ENABLERS #APOLOGISTS #WHITESPLAINING
Hi @Anonymous 00.09, I much appreciate the fact that we can have a decent and respectful conversation about this, even though we still disagree.
DeleteLet's start with your example of defining the tall person by their height. I agree with you that it sounds quite harmful to call someone 'the tall guy'. But let's assume that this person experienced that he didn't get the same chances as people with a more regular height, that his children are bullied because they are as tall as he is and that he himself heard many very negative comments in his life about it as well. I think that this persoon will feel very hurt when someone refers to his height only.
So, yes, context matters. But it's not the context of the person that makes the comment that matters, it's the context of the person that receives it. In this case, we all know that black people have to endure serious amount of discrimination and racism, why else would there be a UEFA Campaign against racism. So that context that I was talking about is a context of racism and discrimination. That means, especially in this case and in this day and age we shouldn't refer to a person only by the colour of his skin.
Now, Coltescu should have realised that and even by not realising, for me this comment is racist. But, people make mistakes. If he would have realised that he was wrong immediately after his comment and if he would have apologised, I'm pretty sure matters wouldn't have escalated like they did now. But that's not what he did. He repeated the comment and even when Demba Ba very explicitly explained to him what was wrong about it, he refused to accept this. By not doing so, Coltescu showed that he does not understand racism at all, as unfortunately in my opinion many readers of this blog.
Lastly I want to talk about intention. When we talk about SFP red cards, we always say, we as a referee can't judge about the intention of the player, we should only judge actions. In this case, I think the same rule applies. We don't whether Coltescu intended to be racist, we should sure hope he didn't, but we should judge his actions and in this context, there is no other explanation possible than calling them racist.
SOrry where I said harmful I mean harmless
DeleteSituation in paris will bring some good solutions about don’t knowing the numbers. It can happens that the numbers of the players must be printed on the bibs in the future.
ReplyDeleteYes, this is the point. Numbers should not be hidden. Otherwise, how can a person be described if not by the appearance?
DeleteStade Rennais FC (FRA) - Sevilla FC (ESP) | Group E
ReplyDeleteReferee: Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
Assistant Referee 1: Marcin Boniek (POL)
So, UEFA is brining Frankowski and Boniek from Rennes. Boniek running for two straight days.
Two CL matches in two days for Boniek. Huh, what a physical exertion!
DeleteA well trained referee at elite level should be able to handle it, but i think he will be very tired tomorrow night :)
DeleteThis situation is comparable with the Strömbergsson situation. Like in that case i don’t think that the he meant to be racist but the choice of words made it that. Special situation and i can see both side of the arguments here
ReplyDeleteWell, Strombergsson said something like "go back to your goal so they can throw bananas at you", which *is* racist. It is quite different from referring to a person by his physical features to allow clear identification.
DeleteWhere Strombergsson is from they use the phrase whe said as a normal expression to goal keapers, has nothing with racism to do which many people have maid clear
DeleteOne thing is sure - UEFA has 100% trust in Makkelie
ReplyDeleteReferees are orphans that everyone can bully around.
ReplyDeleteBeautiful night to go out and profit from virtue-signalling because a Romanian 4th official referred to Webó with the word for 'black' in his native language. We're living in an American world...
ReplyDeleteGood luck for Dutch-Polish crew tomorrow.
Luckily not a Spanish world, where the national team coach can call a player a "black shit" and get away with it.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteQuilava, as an American, I agree with you. The reaction to this incident causes more problems than it solves. It's really harmful to the perception of more serious and important allegations of racism when something small (or, for those who don't think it's small, at least smallER than other racist incidents) gets blown up so disproportionately.
DeleteIf someone think that "black guy" is something bad, he is racist, because black guys are not bad! If I say this black guy is very good football player, I like him, am I racist? Racism is to hate someone because his color of scin. Here there's no any racist comments, or even a hint of hate!
ReplyDeleteFrom this madness in Paris and watching Lahoz, I didnt quite get what happened in Stieler game. Could someone maybe write some key incidents so I know what to focus on?
ReplyDeleteThere are really awful comments here tonight, and I'm gonna have to stop visiting this blog if nothing is done to prevent such comments. You might not think this is an insult but if the assistant coach feels offended it is enough so say that it is an insult. This is not a matter of opinion, but simply respect.
ReplyDeleteYou might disagree but at the very least you could be respectful. We are all referees here I think, but this kind of attitude from a fellow referee cannot be tolerated.
Sorry guys, but truly we must not support the referees at all costs. Saying "the black guy over there" three or four times in a row is racist, whether you like it or not, and no matter the language.
If the only opinion you’re willing to accept is your own opinion, then yes, indeed you should consider to stop visiting this blog.
DeleteI think this is a pointless discussion and the best comment has been written by another blogger on previous post, but I would like to answer you just one thing. Calling someone a racist, homophobe, pedophile etc. is so sooooo serious thing that it can change one's whole life regardless of the outcome, i.e. if the accusation is rejected or confirmed. Moreover, it seems that we want to have 0 tolerance on racism. This two together mean that noone should dare saying such accusation easily!!!
DeleteIf we misuse it every time there is a misunderstanding or a wrong choice of words, then we are doing the wrong thing, moving focus from the real problem to irrelevant details. Not every mistake is an unforgetable sin. Not every insult and not every bad choice of words to a black guy is a racism. Calling someone black is not a racism per se. It is not convenient and it was a mistake, but it is a different category of mistake. Fighting this kind of war in a way that you indirectly call for "sacrifying" a fellow referee in order to send a message may be your choice, but is not the choice that is going to do any good to anyone long term.
I slightly disagree here, as much as I am against the use of the word as I am black, but not because you are offended by what was said and what was said wasn't offensive??? Then as a result the person who said it will feel the wrat of your anger because he is offended was said when in truth there was no offense just because you have the right to feel offended. I will give a short example, a woman who was a boss sexually advanced one of her male worker who turned her down and she was offended at him turning her down... And he lost he job and all just because she felt offended, obviously this is an isolated case but not because you feel offended by what I did or said actually makes what I did or said an offense, there is a rather thin line
DeleteMany wrongs in history were rightened when people overcame their discomfort and spoke up. Comfort and silence have not been successful. This problem exists and affects people every day. It is up to you to decide if it is important. The definition of racism is clear: If a minority is treated differently, discriminated or disadvantaged because of perceived or real cultural or physical characteristics, then this is racism.
Delete@Modern: How was Webo "treated differently, discriminated or disadvantaged"? The referees had already decided to send him away before the word was spoken.
Delete@WCReferee I completely agree with you. Best take I’ve read on here tonight.
DeleteWhat a night in Paris today. I think Hategan is not happy today and wish good luck to Danny Makkelie and his team from Netherlands, Poland and Italy.
ReplyDeleteI hope tomorrow is better than today.
Most if not all publications in the United States and Mexico have published and highlighted this abhorrent, reprehensible, and unacceptable incident. I hope that any and all respectable publications throughout the world do the same. #CONSEQUENCES
ReplyDeleteEstamos contigo Webo. We are with you Webo. Nous sommes avec vous Webo. Estem amb tu Webo. Wir sind bei dir Webo. Siamo con te Webo. Estamos com você Webo. Wij zijn bij u Webo.
#SheriffGoHome
DeleteThis is trivial to you, a contest to see how smug, condescending and dismissive you can be.
DeleteI want to highlight and applaud Paris Saint-Germain F.C. (management and players) for standing up in solidarity with İstanbul Başakşehir F.K. against any and all forms of racial discrimination. #RedCardRacism
ReplyDelete“Believe in something. Even if it means sacrificing everything.”
-Colin Kaepernick
#SheriffGoHome
DeleteThe fact is, systemic racism can be fought against without your validation.
DeleteWhat matters is NOT what someone INTENDS with a questionable comment; it is how it is PERCEIVED by the affected person and everyone observing it;
ReplyDeleteso stop accusing Coltescu of beina racist; stop defending or feeling sorry for him; it is just too bad that it had to happen in his very last UEFA match that he showed that he does not have the understanding and awareness needed for working in public at the international level; and we must DEMAND that from any international referee; otherwise it is impossible to have trust and respect!
not all persons in all countries and places have the education, cultural experience and social sensitivity; we cannot criticize that;
should clarify as the text came out in wrong sequence: what is accepted in a small village/somewhere among local football fanatics is one thing: and we have to expect that spectators at big games and people who know nothing but the football game itself may say or do bad things;
ReplyDeletebut a referee must be way above that; he/she is not just a rules expect, making good decisions, showing fitness and controlling the game; he/she is a leader observed by everyone;
I have a problem with the idea that any player or staff member can declare themselves offended by something the referee said and stop the match. This is not going to make life easy for referees in the long term.
ReplyDeleteStrongly agree. Walking off the pitch is not the appropriate way of handling these situations. They should instead play the game through and wait until afterwards when they can gather all the facts and have a full investigation into the allegations before doing something like this. Any team who, without the competition's approval, refuses to take the field, should forfeit, very simple.
DeleteThere's a reason we have investigations; teams should not be unilaterally making these decisions on their own prematurely.
You all are more bothered by their methods of protest than you all ever will be about the injustices they're protesting. Let's dispel the notion that if they only "protested better", you all will miraculously become more receptive of their message and less scornful of their audacity in speaking out.
DeleteYou seem to have made up your mind that the fourth official racially abused the coach? The word for black in Romania is “Negru”. To give a description to the referee what person was to be red carded he would have to give a description of that person. Why would it be racist to state the obvious? If he was Chinese, would he be racist for pointing that out. Teams can’t just walk off the pitch and get rewarded. PSG players openly encouraged and inflamed the situation. Probably thinking, they would get the three points. Nothing to do with racist comments.
DeleteMicroaggressions can be intentional or unintentional and sometimes even well-meaning. But they communicate hostile, derogatory or negative racial messages or assumptions to the receiver. The ability to even notice these instances requires educating yourself about the experiences of black people and the significance behind such remarks.
DeleteFurthermore, I'm going to dispel the notion that if they only "protested better", you would miraculously become more receptive of their message and less scornful of their audacity in speaking out.
I miss a little bit the discussion about Webo's behaviour. Not after the wrong word was used, but before! There must have been a reason for the VO to intervene. And that was apparently unsportsmanlike behaviour on the substitutes' bench. It feels a little like a chance to switch from perpetrator to victim.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, we "whites" are the coloured ones: we turn red when we exert ourselves or get upset, we turn yellow with envy, green when we feel bad...
1st paragraph: Agree, once you get a RC it was a perfecto deflect attention from his bad behaviour on the bench and blame the 4th official.
Delete2nd paragraph: No comment...
Clearly not a deflection attempt by Webo. Maybe the card was indeed justified, the issue however is how the fourth official addressed him.
DeleteBecause he things he can do everything he wants to. First yelling at referees and calling them morons and 'blind' people, then he gets a red card and the whole world have to think the guys are racists. It is how it works. It's the same like wearing a mask. It's a rule. But why he should do that? That's not necessary because he is yelling at the referee.. A very bad sign from the uefa to reply the game tomorrow. No confidence in the referees. Starting from now the players can do what they want if they are not happy with the referees of the game. I'm far from being a racist. That's only my opinion on that. I'm tired about the blm discussion and thing all around the world. Everyone is equal, so don't maximize it all the time.
DeleteAnd one topic to think about: if you are in a group of 10 people and you are the only 'white' guy, all the people would say 'the white guy over there'.
1) did anyone expect this match PSG-BAS to be a difficult match? the first game in Istanbul did not seem to be problematic.
ReplyDelete2) would the decision to postpone the match be different if the stadium was full of fans?
3) with so many matches in a shorter period, human beings (referees, players, officials, administrators, etc.) will make mistakes. 2021 will be even more challenging with WC qualifications, postponed EURO 2020, Champions League, Europa League, EURO U21, friendlies (see announcement by FIFA on Qatar playing in EURO Group A qualification below), etc. and the possible return of the fans to the stadiums.
How many of the following sentences are racism to you?
ReplyDeleteBlack people are bad football players.
This black guy is a bad football player.
Black people are good football players.
This black guy is a good football player.
White people are bad football players.
This white guy is a bad football player.
White people are good football players.
This white guy is a good football player.
Reading the comments about yesterday, I assume we will have very different answers on that. And this probably is the main reason, why opinions on yesterday strongly differ: People just have different definitions of racism - and we can't simply say, any of them are right or wrong.
My last comment on this matter:
ReplyDelete1. Coltescu talked (in romanian language) with Hategan, not with Webo.
By romanian standards, Coltescu can't be acused of racism. He said to Hategan "ăla negru”. That means ”the black one”.
One should know that in romanian language ”negru” is not an insulting word. We have ”cioară” or ”cioroi”, which are the corresponding words for ”negro” or ”nigger”.
2. All the scandal started because Webo (who doesn't know romanian language) thought that Coltescu used an insulting word (which was not the case).
I have a huge problem with Webo and turkish team. Why ? Because I'm preety sure the referee explained them the situation, explained them the differences between romanian language and other languages. They didn't want to understand the explanations and they refused to play.
I blame UEFA. Why ? Because UEFA create a very dangerous precedent. From now on, every time when a player pretend he was abused the game will can be abandoned.
3. I have a problem with Coltescu who should have been smart enough not to use the word ”negru”. Coltescu was not racist, he was not smart enough. A smart guy would know that the meaning of some words is different in various languages. For this reason it would have smarter not to say "negru". Just point out the person with his finger.
You know what happened. Webo understood "negro" (not "negru"") and he thought that Coltescu used a racist word.
Also, it's unacceptable that Coltescu doesn't recognise Webo (even with the mask on his face). Webo is wellknown player, if you watched football in last 15 years you should know him. This is the problem of Coltescu (and of many others referees).
+1
DeleteFully agree, however, I want to point out that one cannot deny the fact that Coltescu must not use those words.
@petschovski; I fully agree on your last sentence which well summarize the whole situation.
DeleteI think that the fault is that Turkish refused to listen and understand referee's explanation on such misunderstanding by principle and at the same time fault is on Coltescu's language, really stupid but not racist, to use a word that could have been misunderstood.
I guess that the case would have been solved after a clarification without all this mess
https://twitter.com/Emishor/status/1336422228649533444
ReplyDeleteCould it be that most of you actually aren't as concerned with supporting Coltescu as you are in maintaining a counter-narrative to black complaints about racism? Could it be that your counter-narratives to race issues in general are largely disingenuous and, often, just plain spiteful?
ReplyDeleteMaybe this applies to you as well? You ignore the facts that indigate this being only stupid, not racistic, insident and instead try to make it look like racially motivated due to your personal opinions and biases.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteColtescu has a history of mental illness and suicide attempts according to Romanian media. I hope that he gets some kind of support, or this can end very badly.
ReplyDeleteEverything UEFA care about is political correctness, not mental health of their key workers like referees. I would even say UEFA is very anti-refereeing nowadays!
DeleteMy thoughts are with Hategan and especially Coltescu tonight. Very challenging moment for them not just as referees, but as people.
DeleteI also want to add that UEFA should not allow players to run the show. Teams can not just say “the referee offended me” and leave whenever they want. The appropriateness of the match officials’ words/actions must be determined by UEFA, not by the players/teams. At some point UEFA must stand up to players and teams who unjustifiably make very personal and insulting accusations against the referees.
In summary, I hope UEFA supports Coltescu thoroughly, not because he is a referee, but because I truly believe in my heart that he had innocent intentions, and because I don’t think anything he is reported to have said is actually unethical or immoral or racist at all. I see his word choice as an error in preventing this fiasco and nothing more. My heart breaks for the Romanian team tonight, and I hope they are treated fairly and justly.
(Of course, and as always, I must make clear my comment is assuming that we are not missing key information at the moment.)
DeleteExactly, I completely agree with you regarding players or coaches deciding anything in terms of playing/not playing, referee appointments etc., that is absolutely unacceptable. There is UEFA delegate, different services that collaborate or even Ceferin and competition board in case of some urgent situation, but ONLY they can decide if the game has to be played or delayed. If there is no permission for game suspension, the club that is responsible should lose points and be suspended from UEFA competition for the next season. Why? Simply because the regularity of the whole competition can be put under question. Any sanction for the offenders (a club, the referee, the player) can be issued after the game is played. And moreover, the criteria must not be arbitrary at all, there has to be a guideline in which cases can the game be suspended, and what is the hierarchy in such situations.
DeleteMay I add my tuppemceworth to this sad incident. I won’t get into the racist / not racist discussion, there’s enough on here.
ReplyDeleteMy question is, how come an experienced referee acting as fourth official needs to get the referee involved after 13minutes of a match! Surely his experience should allow him to control the situation himself without referee intervention.
But again, does this ask the further question, is too much played on Ekire referees being appointed along with Fourth officials who have no experience of how to deal with players / coaches etc?
The whole appointing of who as a FO needs addressed after last nights debacle.
https://www.teamtalk.com/news/cavani-speaks-out-deeney-three-match-ban-not-enough
ReplyDelete#JusticeforCavanisFollower ?
#SupportColtescu this was totally not racism. I rather say its total abuse again the ref. We must all support. For me explanation they did was good and facts will come out as everything is recorded.
ReplyDeleteThe accusations levied against Coltescu are terrible. I agree, I would call it abuse, and by members of both teams. Very difficult situation but I hope UEFA support Coltescu and strongly condemn the accusations the teams have made. (This is, of course, assuming that we are not missing any crucial facts at this point in time.) I don’t have my hopes up, though. Making the (in my opinion) best move would be a PR nightmare for UEFA, which shouldn’t matter, but we all know it does.
Delete#SupportColtescu
= UNEMPLOYED =
ReplyDeleteOmar Ontiveros (LA Galaxy 2) - Directed a racist slur towards an opposing player.
= UNEMPLOYED =
Junior Flemmings (Phoenix Rising) - Directed a homophobic slur towards an opposing player by using a slang term from his country.
The USL Championship and US Soccer handled these case in an exemplary manner.
The focus and the eyes of the World are now on UEFA.
#RedCardRacism
Is designating a player by his skin color a "racial slur"?
DeleteNot clever/appropriate yes, especially coming from a ref, and should have clearly been avoided (and appropriate sanctions to be given)
An insult/slur, maybe a stretch.
When journalist mentioned that Barack Obama was the first Black president of the US (or Kamala Harris, first black woman vice-president), I don't think there was much of an issue with talking about the skin color.
Can we please reminder ourself that this is a refereeing blog? I see 25 posts of Modern<BytheBook accusing others and talk about Whitesplain. If you have no other contribution, just go...
DeleteI'm disgusting after watching RB - MU. Lahoz made a few misunderstand decisions. Its hard to imagine why he didnt use VAR in crucial moments.
ReplyDeleteI hope it was his last match in this edition Champions League
I think it's questionable. We only know one side of the story and the media only lights out that story. When I heard the conversation between the 4th official and the bench, I think its a total misunderstanding. The 4th official wants to inform Hategan who has to get a red/yellow card. The 4th official uses the word 'negru', that's black in Romanian. If you want to point out someone, it's obvious you choose a external characteristic to make it clear. If he was white and had glasses,the 4th official would say the guy with the glasses. If the bench is full of Turkish players and there is one guy who is black, I understand the choise of point him out as the 'black guy'. Is it clever? No, not at all. Is it clever to say that as a uefa offical? Absolutely not. It is controversial? Yes it is. Keep in mind that a story had two sides. And don't shape your own opinion just with one side of the story or a article.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I am happy about this incident is that there seems to be a big amount of people (of all races, religions and cultures) deeming this unracist in many social medias. Good to see that some people can still understand each other instead of wild accusations based on their own opinions.
ReplyDeleteI agree, I am glad that most people (even many of those who have come to a different conclusion than I have) seem to be able and willing to think for themselves and judge the evidence on their own, rather than simply assuming that the party making the accusations must be correct no matter what.
DeleteIn Serbia, the public opinion in all comments related to this incident are on referees side. It's quite sad that referees have to deal with this kind of mobbing after all that we experience on and off the football field.
DeleteThat's the general consensus in the "bastion of diversity" which is Serbia? Not surprised.
DeleteIt must be questioned whether the Coltescu is human or not, rather than Ref.
ReplyDelete9 December: Ethics and Disciplinary Inspector appointed
ReplyDeleteIn accordance with the Article 31(4) of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations, an Ethics and Disciplinary Inspector has been appointed today to conduct a disciplinary investigation regarding the incident and the events that led to the UEFA Champions League group match between Paris Saint-Germain-İstanbul Başakşehir FK being abandoned. Information in regards to this investigation will be made available in due course.
So it's okay to repeatedly call the Roumanian refs gypsies? Right...
ReplyDeleteUefa has cancelled Webo ´ s red card. That ´s a very critical decision because was result of Webo’s behavior before the major issue. Refs are obviously the punchball used by UEFA to be saved politically in this sad affair...
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteChefren is UEFA man! It's UEFA blog!
DeleteHe's Rosetti hahahaha, you made my day Anonymous
DeleteI completely disagree with UEFA's decision to cancel Webo's red card. His red card was about his behaviour prior to the incident.
DeleteI mean... I just have 1 question... I work for a company where I work with people of different nationalities, cultures, religions, skin color etc. and I wouldn't call myself racist by any means. A person is a person and that's all that matters... I also talked to my colleagues about this situation today and we unanimously agreed that if I was playing as the only European in an African team where all of my teammates would be black, (and yes, I'll use black, because "people of color" is just a stupid expression, which is in my opinion more racist, since EVERYONE has a certain color of their skin), so if I was supposed to get a red card, the referee says that the card should be issued to the white guy... Why on earth should there be a problem with that! It's simply something that can help the referee to identify me! Just like if there was somebody super tall, the only bald person on the bench, somebody with red glasses, etc... It's just identification of the offender, NOT an INSULT of his ethnicity... I'm open to discussion of course, but I mean... I think what I'm saying quite makes sense... Yes... The way the word "negru/negro" sounded at that moment might have caused some unnecessary heat, however if this was properly explained by the referee, which they tried, I don't see a reason for continuing the match, let alone canceling the red card, for which there was a reason BEFORE this whole incident...
ReplyDeleteKudos to UEFA for standing tough on the matter. I didn't expect them to be.
ReplyDeletehttps://streamable.com/vwktd0
ReplyDelete"In my country Romanians are allways gypsies" - someone from Basaksehir bench. Sounds racist to me.
This is Okan Buruk - the coach. But why don't you give his full phrase. In my country Romanians are called gypsies but I can't say gypsy here.
DeleteHe mentioned to someone else.
In Turkish gypsy is Roman. Romanian is Romen.
But coach is very clear would it be right to say gypsy to the Ref because in our country we say so...
By the same logic that the Istanbul bench applied against the refereeing team: Why mention this at all? He clearly would have not mentioned this piece of trivia on Turkish language (as you put it) if the refereeing team would have been Dutch. Not to mention that his choice of words, arguably unlike Coltescu's, is derogatory.
Deletehttps://mobile.twitter.com/Emishor/status/1336713004109492225
ReplyDeleteHategan spoke out after the game at the airport about his game yesterday
People claim that it actually wasn't Coltescu, but AR1 Octavian Sovre who used the word "negru", which I would guess is right due to you can see Sovre pointing towards the Basaksehir bench at that moment.
ReplyDeleteHas that been clarified?
DeleteIn 2013, Hategan was involved in another case: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/sports/soccer/russias-world-cup-spotlight-dimmed-by-new-racism-accusations.html
ReplyDeleteIt's unbelivable that UEFA canceled red card. That's not fair. So you can do everything...do something stupid for red card and then go out of the pitch, saying that someone said something rasistic to you...
ReplyDeletei'm not racist. I like all people in the world, I work with them, eat wit them, doing sport with them... I'm living in community with asians, europeans, americans, afro americans... My best friend is black.
But i think that the racism is in nowadays thing of "black collored" people . If you are looking to "black" people you are racist, if you don't say hello you are racist, if you say hello to unknown black people you are racist, if you use world black you are a racist.
And if you are black guy you can use world white as much as you want. If you as a black are requesting something and don't get it you are a racist also.
I remember this year in NBA. Some black player said to another white (I think to Doncic) something like: "white ass trash". He didn't get any suspension, nobody talked about this... Imagine what will happend if white player say to black collored player:" black trash". I think that for this white player the carrer will be finished.
I don't like black lives matter, because all lives matter! We are looking for EQUALITY!
Nothing to add.
DeleteExcellent.
Hello, I'm disgusting after watching RB - MU. Lahoz made a few misunderstand decisions. Its hard to imagine why he didnt use VAR in crucial moments. I hope it was his last match in this edition Champions League
ReplyDeleteHappy rose day
Poooh... Some here really don't understand what all this is about. Let me try to argue step by step here...
ReplyDeleteFirst after the incedent with only some facts on the table some people condemned the yet so called racist a bit too quickly in my view. Even in such a case we always have to hear both sides before we judge.
After the facts being clear I go with the decisions of UEFA. AND I definitely see that, what happened as a clear act of racism.
Some here argue, that just mentioning the color of someone's skin to describe him is not racism, cause saying "the white guy" to define a player - for instance - who is the only white colored South African player in a football team with his comrades being Black colored Africans would be the same. Normal!!?????
It is not!!!
With the history of colored people being mistreated in so many societies and places all over the world for many centuries until today... And STILL THEY ARE!!! - with millions killed, kept as slaves, with all that present and historical context it is anything but the same, but normal. It hurts, it opens wounds, it stinks like the bad old breath of colonialism.
But hey, some say now, the guy should not be thrown from the list, should get the chance to be part of international games, maybe after some months, because he did not mean it that way. So, what? You want to tell me that someone being an international referee, many times confronted with racist comments from fans around in the stadium, on the pitch by fascist and racist players, that this international ref using a racist term is no racist? Not guilty?, Not knowing what he does? He hears that too often to be someone saying that by chance. And at least he shows that he has NO INTEREST in the topic of RACISM. Just THAT disqualifies him for ANY job in the UEFA - and should be reason enough to end his career in his country, too. No doubt.
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