We comment in this discussion the performance of César Ramos, appointed to handle his first WC semifinal, between France and Morocco. Good luck!
Game 61 - Al Khor (20:00 CET)
FRANCE - MOROCCO
FRANCE - MOROCCO
Referee: César Ramos (MEX)
Assistant Referee 1: Alberto Morin (MEX)
Assistant Referee 2: Miguel Hernandez (MEX)
Fourth Official: Jesus Valenzuela (VEN)
Reserve Assistant Referee: Jorge Urrego (VEN)
Video Assistant Referee: Drew Fischer (CAN) Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Nicolas Gallo (COL)
Offside Video Assistant Referee: Neuza Back (BRA)
Support Video Assistant Referee: Armando Villarreal (USA)
Standby Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Corey Parker (USA)
Good luck cesar ramos and his team today
ReplyDeleteOT: Daniel Siebert just confirmed on German TV that his no penalty decision (93' Cavani incident) was deemed correct by FIFA. I think they are gonna talk more about it after tonight's match. If there will be anything interesting, I'll let you know.
ReplyDeleteWhat about 58th minute?
DeleteWasn't mentioned, it was just a short segment. Maybe after the match.
DeleteThe no PK decision WAS correct (as I've already explained).
ReplyDeleteBeing correct and being a good manager of players (often someone with excellent communication skills) are two different things. I wasn't convinced with Siebert on the latter, but it didn't help that the VAR for that match didn't see what Siebert saw and recommended a review.
Super high bar of foul detection set by Ramos. Fingers crossed it'll end up well for him.
ReplyDeleteWrong YC for Boufal
ReplyDeleteCompletly wrong yc
ReplyDelete26' YC: was French player already falling by himself when he hit Moroccan player's shin? And Ramos's showing of YC was very demonstrative.
ReplyDeleteOrsato forever....
ReplyDeleteMissed YC MOR 20
ReplyDeleteNow crystal CLEAR YC missed
ReplyDeleteAnd now a missed YC for MAR 20 Dari. Not the best spell for Ramos
ReplyDelete33' recklees without yc
ReplyDelete32' Very clear missed YC for stamp on ankle of French player. RC with little more force.
ReplyDeleteHere I agree completely. A Must!
DeleteMe too. Absolutely mandatory YC after the advantage, a blackout moment for Ramos unfortunately.
Deletehttps://streamja.com/be0q4 Why was this not a penalty?
ReplyDeleteYes, looks like it should have been. Exactly what VAR is for...
DeleteIt doesn't look like a penalty to me. The defender moves the ball before the contact with the opponent (I didn't understand the YC though)
DeleteThat's rather a penalty for Morocco than a contrary foul for me. VAR should be correct in supporting referee at UEFA level, but not the same can be said for FIFA. I don't think referee had the exact perception of the incident.
DeleteI agree, Chefren. Even if we decide to defend no penalty decision, Ramos's decision (attacking foul and YC) is clearly wrong for me. As for the penalty itself, I am more pro penalty than against it.
DeleteThe video shown is a bit short. Seeing the moment longer (go back farther) will show more perspective on the movement of the two players - this is very important since the ball was played.
DeleteEven so, this could be given, but doesn't have to be. As such, it cannot be considered a clear and obvious error (VAR).
I can agree with you regarding VAR intervention, Ref Al, not clear and obvious for me too.
DeleteRewatching the penalty claim. No idea how that's not been given. Dreadful decision. VAR asleep
ReplyDeleteAfter Sampaio's performance in England-France and other anomolies, I don't feel this was the strongest showing for referees in this World Cup.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading your comments about the refereeing of Orsato in the ARGCRO, I think that the Argentines have done well with Mateu's critical play. FIFA put an Italian referee who in case of doubt always favored the Argentines. Messi seemed to be directing the game. Orsato points out a pebalti that does not exist and opens the Scoreboard and favors Argentina's victory. I sincerely believe that the time has come for FIFA to change Mr. Collina and look for alternatives outside of Italy, which the Italians have been at the top of for many years. FIFA arbitration and we are going from bad to worse. Germany, England, Spain etc have qualified people who could lead the. FIFA arbitration and thus rest from the Italian failures
ReplyDeleteAn otherwise quite good first half by Ramos spoiled a bit by the missed yellow card.
ReplyDeleteHe had to do nothing apart from that, poor first half for me, missed all the decisions regarding yellow cards.
DeleteWhat other misses besides the on in (what minute was it? The one he played advantage on, the studs to the foot that there are 100 comments about). The yellow card he showed is good IMO
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteCare to elaborate on your ill-informed, harsh, and possibly unjustified accusation? Or is it easier to regurgitate a slew of random words to get a reaction?
DeleteThere is nothoig for referee in the match but with his weird desicions he destroy the match by his own. What is unjustified for you? Missed clear YCs or given disastrous YC or clear penalty that not given? What else should happen that you can say its a bad first half for a referee in a relative fair going match?
DeleteHow obvious can you ask for a YC? #MAR17
ReplyDeleteVery mediocre 1st half from Ramos,not consistent in his foul line,atleast 1 if not 2 YC's missed and eay too many complaints from players.
ReplyDeleteScorelone does not favor "home team" and with that result,we could se pretty challenging 2nd half in which Ramos needs to adapt very quickly,otherwise he could lose control of the game.
Thats what I expect now, sadly.
DeleteImo it was clearly penality...
ReplyDeleteOur friends in the videoroom should have told Ramos to check the pictures himself. For me at least a possible PK.
ReplyDeleteCould Ramos have given a penalty? Yes (though it would have been de facto very wrong IMO).
DeleteWas not giving it a CLEAR and OBVIOUS error? NO!
To say unequivocally that this should be an intervention -- in either direction(!) -- in such an 'ad hoc' and unique scene, is to completely misunderstand the concept of VAR.
"VAR's job is not to change one controversy into another".
Although I am more pro penalty than against it, Mikael is absolutely right in his comment, IMO. Not a clear and obvious error for me too. However, Ramos's ultimate decision was wrong, IMO.
Delete+1 on VAR role here
DeleteFirst half
ReplyDeleteMissed penalty for Marocco (ref gave yc for marcoco Player var not inetrvene why?)
Missed 1 yc for Marocco Player in 33'
Very bad first half by Ramos
Did anyone really expect anything else from Ramos? Did you watch the games so far...
ReplyDeleteAll things considered (for him), the Mexican is doing pretty well I'd say!
😅
DeleteThis performance is far, far below GS level at WC, let alone SF
ReplyDeleteMaybe we could talk or discuss about the possible penalty for MAR if Ramos had decided to play on, if we close our eyes maybe even if he had only awarded a free kick for the defender. However, the YC clearly indicates (also for VAR) that there has been a blatant misperception by Ramos. IMO that should have been a message for the VAR to jump in and invite the referee to rewatch.
ReplyDeleteVAR is not for re-refereeing the game. If the referee makes 5 errors in a row and not one is a clear KMI, we STILL don't send referee to monitor
DeleteI agree. BUT if there is a clearly wrong perception of the referee in respect to a situation in which the VAR could intervene (like here, a penalty incident) or the referee misses an incident that would justify a penalty, the line of intervention is or should in fact be lower. There is no need to have a 1000 % penalty that was missed. In cases of clear misperception or total miss, it is no "re-refereeing" because you do not "overrule" an interpretion of the referee on the pitch. IMO that is different to a situation in which the referee has a clear perception and takes a wrong but obviously wrong decision. To me, the YC clearly indicates that there has been a fully wrong perception of the whole incident + the foul was punishable.
DeleteA complete misperception can lower the bar for inviting the referee to rewatch the situation though. In this situation the Hernández tackle does not yet meet that bar to be honest. YC issued to the Moroccan is clearly incorrect in my book.
DeleteIt just seems like World Cup referees are getting different types of matches than they might normally get outside of the tournament: if this site is correct, Ramos has only had one international friendly (https://www.worldfootball.net/referee_summary/cesar-ramos_4/), and Sampaio has only had a few Copa America matches (https://www.worldfootball.net/referee_summary/wilton-sampaio/). So have many of these referees been tested on such a big stage before this? I know it is hard to recreate the intensity of the World Cup atmosphere, but I just wonder if some of these referees have had the relevent experience to be put in charge of such big matches?
ReplyDeleteThe example matches sited were in reference to the fact they perhaps haven't been getting the highest type of matches outside of the World Cup.
DeleteHuh?
DeleteRamos has done 6 World Cup matches, 6 WC qualifiers, 2 games at the Olympics, 6 Gold Cup matches and 4 Asian Cup games before tonight.
You can hardly find a referee with more experience on high international level between national teams.
That's what I mean: although each region has its own tournaments, each are of different intensity. A Gold Cup match doesn't seem to compare to a World Cup knockout round match.
Delete51': this challenge on Mbappé... live all referees would have whistled foul, safe choice. For me Ramos thought about a simulation.
ReplyDeleteAttacker clearly exaggerated a very small amount of contact - looking for a free kick in a very good area
DeleteVery bad day for Ramos, he missed so many fouls.on both sides.....
ReplyDeleteThis is every CONCACAF match he does.
DeleteRamos hasn't given 4 or 5 cards and we only have 55 minutes left
ReplyDeleteYes, perhaps he thought so, but for me it was a foul.
ReplyDelete(Even at first sight from the couch 3000 km away ... :-))
Ramos is falling flat. Wonder if he has any clue about foul detection. That challenge on Mbappé is just beyond belief.
ReplyDeleteVery mediocre,ehat he allows MAR players is ridicoulous,maybe he is compensating...
ReplyDeleteAnother studs in foot unpunished. Didn't Collina say he wanted to protect the players so challenges like that would be punished, or am I making that up? Another missed YC
ReplyDeleteSecond YC-offence for MAR20 now... Not whistled at all. Ramos is having problems with foul detection.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to watch any more! 😂
DeleteTo me it seems that Ramos won't whistle any foul unless he sees blood flowing.
ReplyDeleteDoubtful foul detection ...
is it possible he doesn't aware what is foul in football? Near all his desicions seems wrong to me.
ReplyDeleteAgain, missing another foul on Mbappé. To me, technically and from a disciplinary standpoint, this is the worst performance of the World Cup.
ReplyDeleteMissed one penalty, 5 YCs, does not have a clear line in terms of foul detection. I've said all along Ramos is a below average ref and he's is bearing it out in an embarrassing fashion.
he's bearing it out*
DeleteWhat happened to him? His preceeding games very obviously bettter.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely not the best performance for a WC semifinal, it Mikael is not surprised, well I must admit that I expected more. Ramos showed inconsistency in foul detection and card management, many basic things went wrong. Still a kind of control is given to game, but almost all about technical and disciplinary decisions seems to be wrong.
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteThe last 10 seconds were pantomime... 😄 (BBC) The offside was quite obvious. Strange that the AR2 missed it
ReplyDeleteHe saw it as he gave it after the Griezmann shot, but seemingly thought it was close? Not entirely sure how
DeleteOnly thing he needs to complete his so far not good perfromance is crucial mistake...
ReplyDeleteThat would complete the night for him.
Terrible day for Ramos. Very poor foul detection... His luck is that players are respecting him and his decisions, because otherwise this match would be already under chaos. It's not yet a disaster, but it's close.
ReplyDeleteAgree ...
DeleteThe leniency in terms of unsporting behaviour and dissent is simply unbelievable. Unsporting dissenting gestures towards the assistant referee (pointing at the eyes) is not punished. Not to mention the away kicking of the ball after nearly every whistle. And it gets worse and worse.
ReplyDeleteOnly second french goal would save this game. If morocco scores it would be a unforgettable disaster for world refereeing
ReplyDeleteExactly, if this goes to extra time it would be unforgettable
Delete70'
ReplyDeleteHOW IS THAT NOT YC?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Min 70. No YC?
ReplyDeleteOh my God ...
Did he forget the cards in the dressing room?
ReplyDeleteOne more time no YC and still counting ...
ReplyDeleteIt is becoming ridiculous. I understand, leniency, but all has a limit. Way too much.
Too bad that he didn`t read Mikael`s advice...
Ramos has missed 7 YCs so far. Not to mention his horrible foul detection which is drawing laughter from broadcasters.
Delete69' No YC inexplicable!
ReplyDeleteMissing yet another blatant yellow card - foul on Thuram. Seriously, I can't get it. How on earth does Ramos get a WC SF over Gomes, Mohammed or Al-Jassim, who did very well in his lone appearance?
ReplyDeleteAppointments at this WC are an outright joke.
Looks like you need to kill people to get booked
ReplyDeleteor arguably be fouled in the box 😬
DeleteYou guys thought Mikael was exaggerating? This is CONCACAF most of the time. It's why Barton was such a breath of fresh air during qualifying.
ReplyDelete#20 MAR could—SHOULD—have had three yellow cards by now. Not only are the lack of sanctions poor, but if nothing else, tracking players for persistent infringement seems to be non-existent.
ReplyDeleteIncredible. He's missed several YCs by this point... and the only one given so far was blatanly wrong.
ReplyDeleteHow on earth MAR #20 is still without a card....
ReplyDeleteWe need a strong performance in the final to redeem the refereeing profession. If one like this, it would be so disappointing.
ReplyDeleteRamos is not so good today, still not so bad as Lahoz in QF.
ReplyDeleteHe is lucky because both teams are not playing in a dirty manner.
DeleteEnjoyable match, both sides able to play, referee not disturbing the flow or influence the outcome. That makes it a good performance for me. Maybe some technical 'errors', but he meets the most important test that any referee should be judged by. Admittedly helped by both sets of players - 2 countries who are sporting. Obviously he'd have to adapt his approach if Portugal, Argentina or Uruguay were playing.
ReplyDelete+1
Delete"Wrong" YC was 100% correct. Morocco attacker ran into this challenge from a distance at speed. Video most are showing is totally deceptive. Please watch original broadcast play which shows full field and speed view.
Two YC stomps #20 MAR - one was optional (intensity lower on scale); other the referee was clearly blocked by two players from view (positioning, not decision, should be analyzed here).
"Foul" against Mbappe at speed was some contact with trailing leg after ball played. Not a whole lot there.
Other no calls could be debated back and forth as allowing flow or being more strict.
Even if all of us stop judging for a heap of of mistakes - my respect goes to both teams who keep this game within the limits of football.
ReplyDeleteThe only one who does not is the ref.
Shame.
To be honest after this performance, giving again credit to CONCACAF for the final seems quite hard to believe...
ReplyDelete+1 I can bet my home that Marciniak is into the final right now.
Delete+1 I even think about two UEFA referees for last two matches.
DeleteIt is not fair to blame all CONCACAF referees because of today's Ramos performance.
DeleteFrench 2nd goal is the best thing that could happen to Ramos, tbh.
ReplyDeleteCan we think of a CONMEBOL name for the third place CRO-MAR game, like Sampaio or Claus?
ReplyDeleteOr something like Makkelie or Taylor to give "security"?
Ramos should sacrifice some candles at his local church that France scored ...
ReplyDeleteYep,Ramos should thank Grance for scoring cause God knows in hiw much problems he would have been if he was challenge of angry Moroccans and Grance who would be timewasting.
ReplyDeleteIronically the commentators on BBC praised this refereeing performance 😂
ReplyDeleteWell Aunt Beep isn't what it used to be ...
DeleteThey're right. Enjoyable match, with the referee staying out of the limelight. Perfectly judged performance by him for these 2 teams.
DeleteRoss: Also commentators in my country (Czech Republic) praise the referee.
DeleteRamos has been saying 'no more' to every player misconduct... for half an hour.
ReplyDeleteLooks like his goal is to end game with that 1 YC.
ReplyDeleteAnother verbal warning for carrying the ball away after whistle which prevent a quick freekick ... in the 87th minute.
ReplyDeleteAre we all sure that this ref understands football?
DeleteI've said all along Ramos is a below average ref, to put it nicely. Too poor. Even worse than I had anticipated. He drew laughter from broadcasters at some point. Now imagine giving him a WC SF!!!
DeleteDespite one of the worst performances ever seen in terms of technical and disciplinary management of the game, Ramos was a very lucky man with the outcome and the final score. That's incredibile given his approach. Trying to defend him, one could say that he would have handled the game differently from that in case of need, but the management before the free kick in 84' was another signal that he couldn't do more than he did, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I want to add, his face when he booked the first player, rather angry facial expressions trying to compensate a lack of natural authority.
Yep. I guess he'll be lucky enough that there won't be any retaliation/frustration tackle as an attack that sparks a confrontation.
DeleteOne thing these referees do is study the teams. These two teams (every game this tournament and likely before) come to play. This game will be more passionate, but the teams will work with some passion (both ways) - even if it means a harder knock or two. Sure some situations may have warranted YCs, but neither opposing team needed that and that helps both ways. With some very minor blips, the players maintained emotional control (as was expected) and the referee let it at that.
DeleteHad Ramos pulled out the YCs (I count about 4-5 that he "missed" based on the commentary), the game would not have been any different; in fact, it may have led to frustration from the players.
I respectfully disagree. If an offense is reckless, or stops a promising attack, or is clearly unsporting, etc, the card must come out. Same goes for sending off offences like kicking the ball into an opponent's technical area.
DeleteTo play the game via match feeling like is suggested here works when you have borderline decisions that could go either way. But when things are clear, if proper sanctions are not given, players don't know what to expect from officials, and that is dangerous. There is no consistency in the game, let alone between multiple games in the same competition.
I think that having established standards is something UEFA does really well, and it's no surprise that their referees are so trusted by players and FIFA alike.
A very big compliment to both teams for keep playing in quite a fair way, despite the referee's attempts to get the game all over the place...
ReplyDeleteI have to admit, his management before final whistle with that pointless verbal warning was clever and spot-on to 'kill' the game.
ReplyDeleteAlthough, what was that advantage before, with 2-0 in 90+6'... even French players complained.
DeleteIt is almost funny that Ramos missed 8 yc but his only yc was a wrong one
ReplyDelete+1 - the very definition of irony
DeleteThe YC was 100% correct. Please watch the challenge live in the full-field view. Morocco attacker steamed in from 15+ yards away in a reckless manner.
DeleteTo cap it all off, 6 minutes of time added on adds to the disaster. Considering deliberate instructions for time-wasting at this WC, with subs, confrontations in 2nd half.... 6 minutes???
ReplyDeleteThis was the worst refereeing performance i have ever seen since Gamal Al-Ghandour in 2002 south korea - spain match.
ReplyDeleteOk
DeleteI'm a Spaniard but Al-Ghandour wasn't that bad, he was unluckily held responsible as the referee(ing trio leader) for his AR's awful mistakes.
DeleteWhat gamal alghandour you forgot graham poll in Australia vs Croatia in wc 2006 and ivanov in Netherlands vs Portugal in wc 2006 and howard webb in wc final 2010 between Netherlands vs Spain
DeleteHow was Ivanov bad in 06?
DeleteHe was even lenient,not his fault that players behaved like animals...
I like Ivanov but he was (very) bad in NEDPOR tbh (-> 3)... López Nieto was much more unlucky in his comparable 2002 clash (-> 5).
DeleteMikael there's somewhere where we can check all your previous reports on the previous World Cups/Euros?
DeleteJob done. 2 sporting teams allowed to play without constant meddling from the referee. A good game of football. Both teams given equal chance. Match decided by the players, not the referee. Referee with EI, not just the rulebook.
ReplyDeleteYou missed to add /jk at the end of your post! ;)
DeleteBrian Hall entered the chat? :D
DeleteThe idea that there is much/anything sophisticated or 'EI' about Ramos as a referee is absurd, but indeed, I thought was okay today TBH.
LOL That Collina appointed Ramos for a WC SF says it all about the Italian and his awful management of appointments at this WC. He just can't avoid what broadcasters are saying about refereeing in Qatar. The image is indecent.
DeleteBrian Hall replacing Collina is an excellent idea. There was nothing wrong in this game except where the referee was from.
DeleteWell EI is relative of course, but based on this performance he has more than most on this blog. I'm glad he was the one out there, rather than the ones wanting lots of YCs and rule enforcements. Instead the 2 sides were able to play football (not just a game defined by rules). Post-match discussions: noone talking about the referee (apart from this blog, obviously!). Job done.
DeleteNow the final between France vs Argentina referee between Danny makkiele and marciniak
ReplyDeleteI'll bet on Danny M..
DeleteBecause he is the better ref.
(But perhaps that doesn't count in this case.)
Danny M. can get third place match or be fourth official in one of the last two games, but he won't be the referee for the final because of more reasons (his penalty in Arg-Pol, no KO game, and of course strained relations between between the Argentines and the Dutch in QF). Elfath or Marciniak for the final, if Marciniak, Elfath probably fourth official, if Elfath, Marciniak could handle the third place match too and in this case maybe Makkelie fourh official.
DeleteOnly reason Danny M will indeed be out for the final is last Friday’s war between the Dutch national team and Argentina.
DeleteDefinitely no final for Elfath, it’ll be between Marciniak and Taylor now. And most probably no Uefa referee for the third place final.
Well I must have watched a different game to everyone else. What I saw tonight as a football fan was a competitive but fair game between 2 great teams. The referee will not be a talking point at all. From a refereeing standpoint, yes there were a few technical errors, but nothing important. I prefer football to be played like this
ReplyDeleteRamos was a talking point of broadcasters during the entire match. They were shocked by what Ramos was doing. Even laughing at some point. Refereeing at this WC has elicited harsh criticism - just look at what Modric said about Orsato, for example - and even mockery - Ramos tonight.
DeleteIf I were Collina, I'd be ashamed but he just doesn't care of course.
Which country are you from? In the UK the commentators praised Ramos (which I think is a bit far, but it wasn’t a disaster by any means)
DeleteWhy do you all act surprised at how Ramos performed today? Did you all not read Mikael's excellently written article?
ReplyDeleteThis is the type of game and referee that FIFA wants. In their backward way of seeing things. They view this as entertaining football. To the powers that be at FIFA, the Laws of the Game have become irrelevant.
It becomes clear why those early strict by-the-book referees (ex. Al-Jassim) were no longer assigned. Excuse my language, but it is complete and utter B/S for the Referee Committee to send so many mixed messages to the referees during the same tournament.
I totally agree. Al-Jassim deserved more.
DeleteWorst thing about this performance is that FIFA will be satisfied,and that's one of the reasons why refereeing at WC in general is bad imo.
ReplyDeleteWell, I personally am not surprised, I am outraged.
ReplyDeleteThat's something different.
Good evening. Ok, we will have very hot final between Argentina and France. After all, I think it is totally logical that Concacaf referees are out becouse I think that after performance like this tongiht especially in technical way, It is not expected. Referees from AFC and CAF are out in my view becouse they still have to work on their developement and improvement, but I would not exclude possibility of see Ghobral in 3rd place match. Then, referees from Uefa that stay (excluding Marciniak) did not have any knock out match, so they are out. So there are two options, Marciniak and Sampaio. Marciniak-two games, Sampaio-pathway like Pitana in 2018. Of course that would not be undeserved that Marciniak recive the final, but, I would rather choose Sampaio(as I said that,with Claus as 4th official),and my reasons are that he showed that he is safe pare of hands in hot atmospheres, let the game to flow, and have bigger experience in hard games, more than Marciniak. Than, he have more challengeing games in this WC, than Marciniak have. Also, I need to mention one thing. So mutch of you speak about Argentina do not like Conmebol or Brazilian referees in final, or regular games that played. You need to know that one Wc final that was played by Argentina was officiated by Brazilian referee. So we will se, I will still stay as fan of Sampaio in final.Cheers!!!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSorry, If somebody say "CONCACAF referees are out after this SF," the same logic would be "UEFA referees are out after Lahoz performance in QF. The same, non-sense logic.
Delete@Ref, It's that kind of "reasoning" that leads to disastrous performances like the one we saw tonight. Why on earth do refs from AFC and CAF need to work on their development? Mohammed or Al-Jassim(AFC) and Gomes (CAF) would have done much better for sure. Refereeing at Qatar 2022 is being ridiculed because of Collina's cynical and political appointments. He's the one to blame.
DeleteUnfortunately, being from the CONCACAF region and being witness to the Brian Hall effect. I am kind of immune to this mediocrity. It is what we see from every referee in each and every one of our regional competitions.
ReplyDeleteChefren please i need analysis for referees for final and the 3 rd place match such as your analysis in ucl final referee every year
ReplyDeleteI am a little undecided yet how I rate tonights performance.
ReplyDeleteRamos missed a few YC sadly. But I am nowwhere near 9 what I read here. If you wanna stick to his lenient (well working) line he gotta give 3. No more. The penalty some of you see is beyond my understanding. YC for Boufal is pretty harsh and absolutley out his management but not in a 100 years its a defender foul.
Apart from the very technical issues regarding personal sanctions Ramos had a brilliant game. One of the best foul detections I have ever seen. Especially the Mbappe situation around 50´ shows his strength. At first I like everybody thought its a rough tackle and a YC, but if you look at it closely you can see its a perfectly fine defending action. Furthermore Ramos didnt fall for players to get freekicks with minor contacts, he let the game flow brilliantly and showed the same line for both teams. He was widely accpeted and communicative.
I understand that the missed YCs are a frustrating thing for a referee blog judging singular scenes. But his overall game management and foul detection was absolutley amazing.
This being his 4th appointment Ramos had a great WC and if he can keep up his management and improve his technical judgement we may see him in another semi or even the final 2026.
"One of the best foul detections I have ever seen". OMG Laughing myself silly. Foul detection is one of the reasons why Ramos is a third-rate referee. Please ask Mbappe about Ramos' foul detection LOL The Frenchman almost had one of his legs broken and Ramos did not even call the foul!! It is just one of many examples of how embarrassingly poor Ramos was, as expected btw.
DeleteI cannot/ do not want to imagine Ramos' games in Mexico. Do they have enough ambulances on hand?
Ramos didn't handle this semi differently to how he handled his previous games. To be honest, I can't understand your astonishment. Everybody who carefully watched all games could've expected just such performance by the Mexican. Poor technical accuracy, ultra lenient approach and weak management were visible in every game he handled. He showed once again he's not able / willing to change his style. It's sad to see a referee without needed skills being given a WC semi for only(!) delivering his previous games and avoiding bigger controversies.
ReplyDeleteState of refereeing is really poor almost in every confederation but FIFA added to that a very poor management as well. It's not refereeing anymore, to be honest. The philosophy of referees being only 'actors' and 'managers' who don't care about the LotG has won, unfortunately. Even more respect to Orsato for being brave enough to be a REFEREE on the pitch.
I mostly agree with you. It's like the commenters here have never watched a CONCACAF game before, lol. It is certainly a "different perspective" on football refereeing than you get in UEFA. Not a fan myself, but this is standard Ramos tbh.
DeleteThe only points I disagree on:
1) "Weak management", I actually think the opposite with Ramos. To me he comes off as always very alert. Able to step in and be FIRM with players when required, and good choices for when to bring himself close to a potential flash-point in order to diffuse the situation.
2) "not able to change his style" "without the needed skills." I think he has the skills, it is just a choice not to use them. I don't watch a ton of Liga MX, but when I have, he is a completely different referee, an almost extreme disciplinarian. It actually mirrors Mario Escobar's difference between domestic and international matches as well; not that I've ever seen the Guatemalan league but if you look up his stats, he appears to be SUPER card happy at home.
Which brings me to my final point, that I think we agree on, that this style is actually a consequence / desire of FIFA themselves. Gone are the days of "law enforcers", FIFA only want "game managers." Technical accuracy be damned, if you escape the game without the media talking about refereeing, then you are successful, in the eyes of FIFA. On a broader note, not talking about this game specifically, I think that this philosophy sadly introduces a lot of biases that exist in the media, INTO the referees' performances themselves.
Ramos referees Mexican League matches.
DeleteLet's just imagine if we applied our standards there. Each game would have 30+ cards and 100+ fouls.
We can't (and FIFA won't) expect Ramos to suddenly become "prissy" in his views.
I've certainly watched CONCACAF games before and it's not that I didn't expect something like this to happen, but just that I always end up a bit disappointed when it does happen. Unfortunately, it's a common ailment for all of us referee enthusiasts here, either we are willing to accept it or not, but it can be felt in the tone of the comments (e.g. your last paragraph, smala017, which is beautifully put IMO).
DeleteAs for Ramos particularly, his first game at this WC gave me some hope that he managed to improve his performances in key areas, however what I've seen tonight was the "old" Ramos I knew from WC 2018. Unfortunately, I cannot say I like that Ramos very much. No, I cannot say this was a disaster, but his technical accuracy was pretty weak. Add to that a dubious disciplinary line with, for me, 3 rather clear YCs missed and one wrongly issued, and it gives me a picture of a referee clearly not on a WC SF level. I am very sorry to say this, but it's an opinion I cannot escape from.
Furthermore, I am more with Euro Soccer Ref on the issue of Ramos's management skills. Maybe it's because of my professional background, but I just can't feel secure with Ramos controlling a game: I cannot see a leader on the FoP, a true manager, just a referee "surviving" in certain situations. Again, I might be completely wrong, but it's a feeling I had since his first game at WC 2018.
Lastly, I have nothing to add to your beautiful last paragraph, smala. Fully agree with every single word.
Ref Al - maybe that would be a good thing: some games will indeed spiral into chaos short term, but the standard will be set and long term we would see less violent or unsporting actions from players. Tolerating bad behaviour (or managing too much with "personality") as is done now in these leagues is not the solution.
DeleteTo Smala017 and some other bloggers : Marocco launched an official complaint against Ramos with FIFA, which is discussed meanwhile in various WC broadcasts and blogs. So, he did not escape the game without the media talking about it at all. Of course, the reason of the complaint (two penalty's missed) has no chance to stand, but I am very worried for all these referees that have to whistle as from next week onwards : do they have to follow the style of Ramos ?? Certainly not, but I am curious about the outcome.
DeleteRamos killed the game..
ReplyDeleteBefore this tournament, I had made the decision to no longer watch televised football. Because in my opinion, it had become unwatchable due to the type of officiating I no longer recognized. It had been about a good 6-8 months since I hadn't tuned into a match. Then came the World Cup and figured, I'd give it a chance. After all, it couldn't possibly be any worse than what I've been exposed to in CONCACAF.
ReplyDeleteThe promising start to this tournament (officiating-wise) made me think that I had made the right choice. Because it gave me a false sense that refereeing was actually returning to its roots and to common sense. But it very soon became obvious, that wasn't the case. That the referee committee (with the referees as accomplices) had crumbled and gave in to those that have absolutely no idea about refereeing. Today's match further cemented that notion and has once again made it clear to me that I need not waste my time watching this sport that I no longer recognize. For those of you that tune in on Sunday, enjoy! I for one will not be watching as it's no longer enjoyable for me.
At the grassroots level and in my refereeing. I will continue to instruct the new generations to not only enforce the LoTG but to respect the LoTG.
I am but a single insignificant voice. But this is my "one man" protest.
Thank you all for these past couple of weeks.
Analysis
ReplyDelete(1/2)
DeleteBIG PICTURE
Morocco will send a formal complaint to FIFA about Ramos’s refereeing. They claim that the Mexican official ought to have awarded them a couple of penalties in the 1H.
Should he?
https://streamable.com/986ami
https://streamable.com/wiwfxf
IMO - rather not. Only by getting ‘replay myopia’ does one see a penalty in the former incident, the most controversial one (27’). Hernández beats Boufal to the ball, takes a CONTROLLED touch (despite slipping), and the Moroccan player in the way of his opponent and blocks him. Hernández slipping (-> replays) distort what really happened, but Ramos’s defensive freekick was an absolutely okay call. The YC perhaps less so… +48’ is a too light holding to be punished, attacker starts falling of his own accord anyway.
(btw: Hakimi actually performs a headbutt on the referee at 27’, watch the sequence closely).
Precis: FIFA will be happy that the Mexican referee delivered the game.
(2/2)
DeleteTECHNICAL ANALYSIS
Controversial statement: César Ramos’s semifinal performance was actually the best of his four games at WC2022. Why?
>> DENTUN - easy game, still some hesistant moments with ARs about simple decisions early on; it should say MUCH, much about this referee that the easiest game, with less threats, dissents etc that he chooses to be strictest in disciplinary…
>> BELMAR - extremely lucky to get through the game unscathed, only Belgium’s poor form/play saved him, many overlooked fouls and yellow cards and the game ready to explode at any moment
>> PORSUI - terribly hesistant work in foul detection with many clear infringements whistled “shyly” as a consequence, as always poor use of sanctions
He was obviously lucky that Morocco felt the pressure of the semifinal and didn’t want to make this semifinal a war (they had every oppotunity to if they so wished). This semifinal match was sth close to ‘self-refereed’, in reality:
— probably the players had already realised what sort of a referee they were getting, very questionable play on calls (8’, 11’, 13’) and carte blanche for even blatant dissenting stuff (11’, 20’)
— very visible that the players had *no* respect for this guy, they had no interest in listening to him (see pro forma warning for DtR to same player 25’, 26’); they could even headbutt him without censure! :D
— lucky to be able to play advantage from a stamp at 27’, terrible non-YC at 33’ (really not far at all from SFP…), potential caution at 37’
— the Mbappé fouls were revenge for his challenge at 48’ or Regragui’s halftime instruction?; either way, the recklessness of the fouls at 51’ (play on…) and 57’ (stamp) should be clear
— no SPA at 70’ is a very bad decision :D
— he saw through the end of the game okay by reactively stepping in, fittingly the game ended with a clear SPA handling punished with a freekick only, from which Ramos initially even tried to play an advantage from… (+96’)
But in the end, it all worked out okay, and I can’t get too animated about this Ramos performance. Though it definitely wasn’t a good one! To summarise: César Arturo Ramos, an adequate referee who can survive the ≈90% of modern games (at top level) which are free of ‘real’ ill-spirit or excessive unfair play.
I do genuinely wonder how his standing is with FIFA after Qatar — I wouldn’t too fooled by his getting four games this time, in either direction — and whether he will return for a home WC in three-and-a-half years time.
6 - 7 - 7 - (III)
Mikael there's somewhere where we can check all your previous reports on the previous World Cups/Euros?
DeleteThank you, Mikael, excellent job as always.
DeleteRegarding KMIs you mentioned, I cannot agree with you fully about the 27' situation: defensive freekick and YC were wrong for my taste. I can back him regarding the potential penalty itself, even more so than during the game, however I just cannot see anything wrong about the attacker's movements, anything to be punished. If not a penalty (which is even fully OK for me after studying the footage better), I think this should have been deemed a collision caused by Hernandez's slipping. Of course, my own opinion is rather contradicting itself, but it just doesn't feel right to punish Boufal here. As for the +48' incident, I am of the same opinion (and get instantly reminded on Lovren vs Fred incident back in 2014 whenever something like this occurs).
I fully agree with your technical analysis: there was no leader on that pitch IMO, no authority figure, just a referee "surviving" from situation to situation. I would say Ramos owes his rather positive mark to luck. God knows what could have happened if he had faced an ill-spirited game. A "self-refereed" match indeed (to quote you).
Apologies Del Cerro and Dukat for being quite late to this.
DeleteTournaments:
wc 86, 94, 98, 02, 06, 10 ... refs
wc 90, euro 92 ... ref
.blogspot.com
:)
And Dukat - please send me an email to mikaelthereferee[at]gmail.com, if you like ofc!