Sunday 18 December 2022

Szymon Marciniak to referee World Cup Final Argentina - France (discussion, part 2)

Discussion about Marciniak's performance continues in this topic. 


Game 64 - Lusail (16:00 CET)
ARGENTINA - FRANCE
Referee: Szymon Marciniak (POL)
Assistant Referee 1: Pawel Sokolnicki (POL)
Assistant Referee 2: Tomasz Listkiewicz (POL) (POL)
Fourth Official: Ismail Elfath (USA) 
Reserve Assistant Referee: Kathryn Nesbitt (USA)
Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Juan Soto (VEN)
Offside Video Assistant Referee: Kyle Atkins (USA)
Support Video Assistant Referee: Fernando Guerrero (MEX)
Standby Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Corey Parker (USA)

159 comments:

  1. Yet again spot on! Brilliant

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  2. WOW, WOW, WOW. Handball penalty + YC, and again, correct!

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  3. How would you give the marking for Marciniak? IMO somewhere around 8.7

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  4. The outstanding work continues!! Dealt easily with a confrontation and now a handball - 100%.

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  5. This game is unbelievable, the referee is unbelievable what a final

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  6. Marciniak - SENSATIONAL performance RESPECT

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  7. It is absolutely the excellent of refereeing, the best officiating ever or a football game if you ask me. What do you want more? Minor mistakes? This should only make us laugh. The history has been writte by the Polish.

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    1. I am sure, if ARG loses, they will blame Marciniak. But as an objective spectator, we must say: masterclass performance, despite one or two YCs missed, 8.7 level with the old grading system.

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    2. 9.9 (minor mistake in "writte", otherwise 10.0).

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    3. Fully agree, Chefren, also with Ref_1707's assessment. Brilliant performance by the whole team.

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    4. Agree, congratulations to Marciniak, bravooo

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  8. Wow. Marciniak. Wow.

    I'll admit - I would have preferred Makkelie in this final. But this masterclass? I doubt if any referee could have done better. What an amazing performance.

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  9. To manage this game w/o dissent and controversy is top performance

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  10. Excellent refereeing, absolute masterclass by Marcziniak... Minor mistakes? Whatever... This is top world class...

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  11. What a performance. Brilliant, no words.

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  12. We really needed this top performance after all those subpar ones. Great handling call for pk. And what a wonderful ending to wonderful tournament!

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  13. Amazing Refereeing performance for the highest level of football on top event. Well done Mr. Marciniak.

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    1. What a game what a refereeing performance...

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  14. Excellent performance by assistant referees as well. Now very good offside call by AR2. Game is now over. Polish crew will remember this 18 December 2022 forever.

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    1. +1 Unforgettable spectacle, I'm proud of Szymon!

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  15. ABSOLUTE MASTERCLASS. Sorry for capital letters.

    Powodzenia!

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  16. This is a day we shall cebrate forever as referees.
    Well done 3rd team
    Well done Corrina and team.

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  17. Replies
    1. One left on concussion protocol - 5 in game, 1 in extra time, 1 concussion

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  18. I think today everybody who is a referee can be proud of his or her Profession. Marciniak with a just unbelievable performance in one of the best games ever. Truly world-class!

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    1. Not to forget both ARs who were faultless, and elfath who had some good management on the sidelines

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    2. Great comment, that performance was just beautiful.

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  19. The (close) 3-2 should have been disallowed according to the law. Two substitute players on the pitch while scoring. But of course, impossible to call it in this case. Masterclass refereeing. The WC needed this.

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    1. Trivial... You'd never destroy a game like this on something like that

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    2. Why wasn't it an offside during the buildup?

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    3. Central: the player in an offside position did not intervene in play - his (onside) teammate did. Then, the ball was passed to a player who was behind the ball at the moment of the pass. And finally, hands are not taken into account for determining offside positions.

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  20. after 120 minutes I have to say: Marciniak is world class! Top

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  21. First class Marciniak. Tested in the end and he delivered.

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  22. 7 subs for France I taught only 6 allowed. Have i just missed something?

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  23. Would it be appropriate to wear a referee jersey in the office tomorrow? Asking for a friend...

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  24. Today, we saw one of the best performances ever, no doubt. Three penalties whistled in WC without ANY SECOND of hesitation, one dive perfectly identified. Not even a single sign of being unsure. The player recognised that, we saw almost no mobbing, also due to the effective prevention in the first half. Even after the third penalty, an incident in which we could have easily expected massive complaints, especially because it did not seem to be so obvious (at least from a TV perspective in real speed). This match will be a huge push in Marciniak's career.

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    1. Funny to talk about a World Cup final as a huge push in someone's career lol. But you're right, he still has more he can achieve.

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  25. Replies
    1. 5 in game, 1 in extra time, 1 went off due to concussion protocol

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  26. Simply sensational performance from Marciniak. All 4 penalty decisions spot on, particularly the no-penalty/simulation call. I don't think many other referees would have called this. Faultless game management, no dissent, all decisions accepted. I can't think of another referee that would have performed better. Top class refereeing for a top class match.

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  27. What a amazing performance by Marciniak ! Well done, Szymon !

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  28. Greatest ever world cup final and a refereeing performance to match
    Superb from Marciniak

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  29. Absolutely excellent performance by the whole team IMO. Congratulations to Marciniak and crew, it was such a pleasure to watch him today.

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  30. Mark in UEFA scale for me 9.0.

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    1. A question to each of you: is Tomasz Listkiewicz a relative of Michal who performed as linesman (as they were called then) at WC 1990 Final?

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    2. Former Austrian World Cup referee Günter Benkö once reported that he received an 8.8 for both Mexico - Korea Republic and (the meaningless) Japan - Jamaica in the group stage 1998. Compared to those assessment in not that demanding games in an earlier stage without extra time and without that tricky situations, Marciniak's mark should even be (much) higher, imho.

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  31. One of the greatest pieces of this game was that the great work of the crew did not overshadowed any of the he by the other 2 teams. How it should be

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  32. Very very good game by Marciniak. His calls his mannerisms, his body language and his face ALL show confidence!!!!
    All exciting plays and skills allowed to come out thanks to this referee.

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  33. Wow, what an amazing performance. Once I said there is no perfect game for a referee, but for today I have to correct myself. This was perfect and absolutely faultless.

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    1. There were minor mistakes: the lack of a card on the 2nd penalty, the lack of advantage played for france near the end of (I think) regular time. Not much else. One of the best refereeing performances of all time.

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  34. Marciniak is 41 years old, if his health and form are good, FIFA and UEFA have an outstanding referee for another 4 years.

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  35. Can somebody make sure to record the referee's medal ceremony just in case Fox doesn't show it to us Americans? Thanks

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  36. First penalty wasn't one in my opinion. Minimum contact. Good he didn't buy the Argentina theatre for the 2nd France goal.

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  37. Marciniak is 41 years old, if his health and form are good, FIFA and UEFA have an outstanding referee for another 4 years.

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  38. World class performance. Simply Outstanding! An now, you all can congratulate me as i remind you of my post 1,5 month ago:

    Tom 7 November 2022 at 13:53
    Dear Community.
    I present to you the referee of the final: Szymon Marciniak.
    Remember this post when it's Christmas. But you can already congratulate me now.

    http://law5-theref.blogspot.com/2022/11/2022-fifa-world-cup-referee-predictions.html?showComment=1667825613402#c1602874251503456415

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  39. CONGRATULATIONS
    Amazing performance from Polish Team
    PS: I am French 🤗⚽🏆🇨🇵

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  40. Does anyone have the link to the moment when Thuram did a dive in a penalty area?

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    1. https://twitter.com/Baba3r/status/1604660730984370179?s=20&t=4nCe_WqZ-zZR2Iqorpotsg

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  41. Szymon Marciniak, take a bow. That performance gave me absolute goosebumps and it's probably the best ever. We have to hand it to Collina and his committee, the final appointment was deserved based on performance and referee delivered brilliantly.

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  42. All the pundits on BBC (Alan Shearer, Rio Ferdinand) being extremely positive about the referee - saying he got everything correct.

    Couldn't agree more.

    Giving three penalties in a World Cup final (and giving a YC for simulation on another big penalty call) all without a second of hesitation and without VAR needing to intervene - top quality refereeing

    From the first minute to the last, he looked like he has the match under his complete control. A natural authority that only the very top referees have.

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  43. Is Argentina the first country to win the world cup with only winning 4 out of 7 matches in 90/120 minutes, 2 draws, 1 loss?

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  44. Very much looking forward to the key match incidents post for this game 🤓

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  45. Brilliant performance by the refereeing team today, spectacular management (combination of presence and EI) and got the big calls spot on. An antidote to the past month, but it does not in any way erase the dangerous trends of politics off the pitch and rampant dissent on it. No coincidence that the best performances of the past two tournaments both occurred in the final (Cakir exception to rule).

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    1. (I meant EURO 2020 and WC 2022, by the way)

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  46. Nobody has such game feeling like Marciniak! All calls made immediately, without hesitation. He showed you could be lenient (but not blind!) when possible but mandatory cards have to be shown. Excellent management skills - anticipation, prevention! Didn't let anything bad to be solved by players themselves. He showed who is in charge, and that only football-focused play is expected from the players, already in first ten minutes. Masterclass! Along with Orsato, the best referee of the tournament. Congratulations, Szymon and team!

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  47. Congratulations to Szymon and Team

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  48. A very good performance from Marciniak but there were errors. No YC for Alvarez, missed a few advantages that should've been awarded. And most notably for me not even a YC given for the foul on Mbappe by Otamendi (arguments that it could be a RC) . Saying that he got the big decisions correct and to spot the simulation by Thuram was fantastic. Can be pleased with his performance in an enthralling game

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  49. Excellent from Marciniak. I think the only person who should be ashamed after this performance is Roberto Rossetti who blatantly ignored his great form last season and not assign him a final in either of the 3 UEFA club competitions final. I mean how could Vincic and Kovacs be assigned to a final and Marciniak with prior world cup and UCL experience overlooked? A complete howler.

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    1. Kovacs because of his great performance in UCL SF Man City-Real Madrid. Vincic was apparently set for UEL for a long time. Marciniak should have whistled it indeed. But there is not problem. Marciniak delivered a masterclass in WC final and will have the UCL final probably this season. He is more than happy.

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  50. One of the Polish sports media outlets (WP Sportowe Fakty) asked Howard Webb about his assessment of Marciniak's performance. They published his response in Polish, but I translated it, because I feel proud of my compatriot:
    "It was the best referee performance in the history of the World Cup. I feel so proud!
    Szymon was fantastic, but the whole team deserves high praise, because for example the offside decisions in the key moments of the game, like the third goal, were spot on. It was an excellent performance of the Polish referees, and as for Szymon, I'll say again: top!"

    Probably not exactly what Mr. Webb said, as it was translated to Polish and back to English, but I personally couldn't agree more.

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  51. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  52. Congratulations for a very good performance!

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  53. Congratulations FIFA. Thanks to you, the cup is Argentina's. With your scandal Refs, you can be happy now.

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    1. Seriously?! You have just witnessed one of the best refereeing performances ever, where 2 penalties were awarded against Argentina.
      Are the French players thst missed penalties also in this conspiracy?!

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  54. I genuinely jumped off my sofa and celebrated when he spotted the dive from Thuram. That was arguably the best and most important call ever

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  55. Bravo, Marciniak. The best performance for one World Cup referee ever. He set up high standard for his colleagues in future WC. Excellent. Thank you, Simon, all of us enjoy!!!

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  56. Excellent Performance by Marciniak.

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  57. What do we think is the explanation for no red card for dogso on the penalty? Marciniak seem to show a hold right after the whistle. Maybe input from AR that there was also contact on the legs?

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    1. I think it should clearly have been at least yellow, but the direction was very wide, I think SPA yellow would have been a supportable decision.

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    2. If SPA, no card. Contact was with legs. Holding did not impact attacker.

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    3. Yes thats what I figured. Question is why did he signal a hold then?

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  58. Pierluigi Collina and Massimo Busacca called Zbigniew Boniek and Collina said that Marciniak was stronger than technology. He made good decisions on the pitch that were incredibly accurate. Today, he is the second most important Pole after the Pope, he said.

    https://twitter.com/Macko_director/status/1604563882185564163?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1604563882185564163%7Ctwgr%5E762c803ed67defcc506d3d39c50250214bfa4273%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsport.tvp.pl%2F65167572%2Fmundial-2022-pierluigi-collina-pochwalil-szymona-marciniaka-podejmowal-niesamowicie-trafne-decyzje

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    1. Thanks for having shared this, I think that the last statement (that I find extremely interesting to learn) says us everything about the reputation in Poland for Marciniak.

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    2. Wtf, where do these people live? Pope is Argentinian.

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  59. Best World cup final ever and one of the greatest performances of a referee of all time. Congrats Mr. Marciniak!

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  60. Great final and the best match of this WC which otherwise had many boring games. Great job by the refs. 3 penalties all correct without VAR help and nobody can blame them for anything.

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  61. Forget about France.
    Forget about Argentina.
    Forget about Tottenham-Juventus.
    Forget about the missed European Championships.

    Szymon Marciniak, you were the BEST! Thank you so much for having delivered the probably most amazing performance I've ever seen of a referee!!!

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  62. Fantastic performance, I am speechless. Congratulations for all the team. Bravo, Szymon!!!!

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  63. hahahahaha, first an "easy" penalty given in the first half, and now the best referee in the world / best refereeing performance ever, the objectivity..... can be found further and further on this blog.... come on people, yes he whistled well, but exaggerating is also an art! The most important Pole after the POPE... is a simple football referee......don't make me laugh!!!!!

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  64. https://mobile.twitter.com/Ziad_EJ/status/1604630537070645251

    out of curiosity :is that a handball by a french player?

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  65. I think first penalty for France was rather wrong. Attacker just dived when he felt slight pulling. Contact with the legs occured only when attacker already started diving.
    Marciniak single-handedly brought France back into the game. He was very very lucky Argentina won otherwise everyone would be talking about that penalty.

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  66. Good morning chefren where your analysis for referees in wc 2022 ?

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  67. I've not seen a single person in England talking about the substitutes!

    One negative point on the otherwise excellent performance (apart from the France advantage that others have identified) - I think he should have given a YC to Martinez after he threw the ball away in the shootout rather than just warning him - I don't see how it's anything other than a YC card - he clearly put the French taker off his stride

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    1. Martinez was booked in 120+5'

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    2. So after Martinez threw the ball away he was warned, and then he was booked after the next set of penalty kicks (presumably for a different offence). I think a YC after the throwing the ball away would have been more sensible - it was definitely a YC offence.

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  68. https://streamff.com/v/RsT6E774lH
    I didn't catch that live, but the defender seems to play the ball with his knee quite deliberately to circumvent the "backpass" law
    So this should have been an indirect free kick and a YC.
    Probably Marciniak wasn't convinced enough about the intentions though.

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    1. Probably allowed due to knees as there is no back pass.

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    2. Law 12: "initiates a deliberate trick for the ball to be passed (including from a free kick or goal kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to circumvent the Law, whether or not the goalkeeper touches the ball with the hands"

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    3. Philippe S, you are absolutely right - in theory
      "There are different circumstances when a player must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour, including if a player: (...)
      • initiates a deliberate trick for the ball to be passed (including from a free kick or goal kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to CIRCUMVENT THE LAW, whether or not the goalkeeper touches the ball with the hands; the goalkeeper is cautioned if responsible for initiating the deliberate trick"
      I believe if the Referee had awarded an IFK + YC very few people would have understood...

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    4. Thank you for the Information, Philipp S ! As you wrote in the last sentence above : Marciniak decided play on because not enough for the backpass. I see video with Marciniaks sign "play on"

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  69. Apparently Argentina 3rd goal shouldn't have stood due to a couples of emotional substitute being on the field before the ball crossed the line.

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    1. Yes, exactly, I just wrote below

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    2. By the book yes.Law 3 indicates that.But don`t forget Law 18!!!!!

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  70. Philipp is 100% right according to the LOtG.
    But look at this. If we have to talk strictly about their practical applications, then Argentina`s 3rd goal should have been disallowed. L`equipe complained about this:
    https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Pourquoi-le-troisieme-but-argentin-n-aurait-pas-du-etre-accorde/1370887
    It`s Law 3.9, and pretty clear. It would have been a huge scandal, but a very good lesson fo the substitute players. From this point of view it was a disater during the whole KO stage. All the bench was standing near the line.

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    1. If any ref disallowed the goal for that ridicolous reason, he would have got a oneway-ticket to the moon for all imaginary bad reasons.
      The LOTG does not need heartless enforcing-machines with the sensibility of a bulldozer, but refs with a feeling for reasons and meaning and the character if the match. Disallowing a goal in that situation for that reason??? What an ugly, bad joke!!!

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    2. Yes, of course. I said myself that I would not have liked to see such a dissalowed goal in the comment below at 17:39, hope you didn`t understood otherwise !!

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  71. https://twitter.com/felix_bonjour/status/1604806706046836741

    Question about potential (as we can see in the video) from #18 FRA Upamecano, just before the correct penalty assigned for France..

    Should here the VAR intervene to avoid the penalty for FRA or not ?

    Thanks,
    Zemo

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    1. Potential handball* sorry

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    2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be some optical illusion in effect here, due to the speed of the ball and camera angle. If I can see clearly, there was no contact with the hand, but with the head of the player, which is clearly visible in another video just down the same thread (you can scroll down to find it), from the same angle Marciniak had live. Of course, provided that there was no tampering with these two video clips.

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    3. Thanks Dukat192 you are right ! By the way good positioning of Marciniak

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  72. Scandal before Argentina' 3rd goal...
    https://imgur.com/rJUvVP8
    https://imgur.com/dMwtCMV

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    1. Where was the fourth official? Marciniak can not see because he was concentrating on the situation.

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    2. Please ask yourself, if you really want VAR to overturn the decision here. It would have ruined this great game, it would be talked about for weeks if not months if not even years. I agree rules should be followed, but sometimes you need to have some common sense. I don't believe that anyone could've actually wanted this overturn to happen, and I also think the french will agree in a few days.

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    3. Dear @jules.. Everything was a setup for Argentina to win the trophy.
      Even on this forum, almost everyone says he was a great, excellent, incomparable referee, despite such major mistakes.
      Because most of the people wanted Argentina to win. And they make biased comments.

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    4. Absolutely agree, jules, perfectly said.

      This is just my personal opinion, so there is no need for anyone to feel patronized. However, I strongly believe that cancelling this goal because of such a small issue (not to say trivial) would have been completely against the spirit of not just football, but any sport. IMO, it goes against the spirit of LotG and is anti-refereeing in its essence. I know that rules are to be obeyed, that is correct, but there is also a need to apply common sense when necessary and correctly interpret the spirit of the Laws, not just the mere letter. And if we do apply common sense, I believe we can see this situation in a completely new light (at least I can): we see two substitute players barely entering the FoP, far away from play and without affecting the game or the players at all. They do so in a moment when the shot has already been taken, the ball is going into the goal and no one is able to do anything about it anymore. Sorry, but if this goal had been disallowed because of such an "issue", I would have been the first to complain about it (and be pretty furious too). And just to clarify: I don't have any connection with Argentina, I'm Croat and believe me, there is not much love for Argentina in Croatia right now (as expected).

      Again, this is my personal opinion and nothing else.

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    5. I do not believe that Argentina's goal should have been disallowed, as well as I don't like indirect free kick for that knee pass. It's not in the spirit of the laws, but an interesting point to discuss. I swear I don't support Argentina, I'd rather be a fan of France if I'd have to choose, but in my opinion, Marciniak delivered yesterday one of the best performances I've ever seen.

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    6. Still strange, why IFAB included chapter 9 ("Goal scored with an extra person on the field of play") in Law 3, if it should only be applied in case of interference.
      Because then, chapter 7 ("Extra persons on the field of play") would already cover it.

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    7. IMHO
      Difference between knee pass and Law3 offense is that first is Referee interpretation (deliberately circumvent or not?), while second is not (looks like ball is in or out, player is inside or offside).
      This is the advantages and also the drawbacks of using VAR...

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    8. OMG Utterly scandalous........
      Anyway about the excellent referee performance....

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  73. Argentina 3rd goal must have been disallowed but it's an extreme situation very difficult to detect, Fourth official have to think about a huge amount of things and it's acceptable that elfath and VAR lost it; i strongly disagree with Jules, rules are written to be followed, no space for common sense in this case, you have to use it in those situations that are not made explicit in LOTG; for example you don't use common sense for offside. No one sees it , it's a pity and it doesn't ruin the performance, that's the only excuse, but don't say that you can bypass clear rules for so called "common sense".

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    1. I see where you are coming from and of course it's hard to justify not following the rule here. But I have the feeling this would have been one of the most discussed decision in wc history with the outcome being that the general consensus is that referees don't understand anything in football and are just trying to make things about themselves. Just saying. Now, you have a widely praised (maybe except L'equipe;) )Referee, who contributed his part in this great match.

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    2. This has happened several times in World cups and the Euros. Only this time it's brought up. The law is written as it is but we as referees know the laws of the game are not meant to be followed 100% and that's where the issue us. Hopefully teams won't start complaining that the goalkeepers held the ball for 7 seconds...

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    3. There are the LOTG, and then there is the spirit of the game, and sometimes the latter should take precedence over the former. If so many small fouls go unpunished in the penalty box because enforcing the LOTG would go against the spirit of the game, then surely disallowing Argentina's goal would go against an underlying sense of fairness.

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  74. OT: Now that World Cup is over, should we expect UEFA category promotions/movements for the second part of the season to be revealed in the following days? I think it's about time, unless Rosetti has decided to abolish categories once and for all.

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  75. After a great World Cup with an excellent ending, I think another challenge is beginning for Szymon Marciniak; to keep up with the good work and motivation up all the time. This final is fully deserved but he still has several years to referee. I hope he is up to that phycological challenge to motivate himself to give the best he can in every match to reach 'lower' targets.

    I really wonder how UEFA will treat Marciniak in the coming weeks with assignments, and offcourse his performance.

    The biggest challenge would be to avoid Kassai like ending. I hope that all the parties give him the needed support and we see some great performances.

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  76. What I like about Marciniak's performance best was his manner. The decisions are one thing, but when a referee acts with such confidence, giving that YC for simulation without delay when very few others would do so, we tend to trust his decisions, even if they aren't always perfect, because we feel that when the important ones must be made, he or she will always make the right ones. Bravo for such a commanding performance that we can all emulate!

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  77. Good morning my best friend chefren where your analysis for wc 2022 referees like wc 2018 ?

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    1. Give the poor guy some time lol

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    2. Indeed just a few days after all the efforts during WC. :)
      Analysis will follow, don't worry!

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  78. It was a nice job done by Marciniak

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  79. First of all the stars of one WC are the teams and the players. We had the chance to see an unrepeatable final, great teems, great players. A lot of challenges for Marciniak. In general Marciniak's performance was good. For me he made some mistakes; He delayed to book YCs in the first half and too hurry whistling instead of advantage in a crucial point in the last minutes of the game. But he managed very well penalty incidents (without VAR). About Argentina's 3rd goal case I think that the concerns are not serious, I never heard before a goal cancelled for this reason.

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  80. After having skipped the full first half of 2022-23 season, Guida is finally back, he has been appointed for his first game in serie B this season, Como - Cittadella, to be played on 26 December.

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