Arsenal Stadium, London (ENG)
Arsenal FC - Club Atlético de Madrid
Referee: Clément Turpin (FRA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Matteo Simone Trefoloni (ITA)
UEFA Delegate: Geir Þorsteinsson (ISL)
26.04.2018, 21:05 CET
Stade Vélodrome, Marseille (FRA)
Olympique de Marseille - FC Salzburg
Assistant Referee 1: Nicolas Danos (FRA)
Assistant Referee 2: Cyril Gringore (FRA)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Ruddy Buquet (FRA)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Nicolas Rainville (FRA)
Fourth Official: Hicham Zakrani (FRA)UEFA Referee Observer: Matteo Simone Trefoloni (ITA)
UEFA Delegate: Geir Þorsteinsson (ISL)
26.04.2018, 21:05 CET
Stade Vélodrome, Marseille (FRA)
Olympique de Marseille - FC Salzburg
Referee: William Collum (SCO)
UEFA Referee Observer: Nikolai Levnikov (RUS)
UEFA Delegate: Pierino L.G. Lardi (SUI)
Assistant Referee 1: David McGeachie (SCO)
Assistant Referee 2: Francis Connor (SCO)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Robert Madden (SCO)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: John Beaton (SCO)
Fourth Official: Douglas Potter (SCO)UEFA Referee Observer: Nikolai Levnikov (RUS)
UEFA Delegate: Pierino L.G. Lardi (SUI)
This really begs the question that why is Collum not going to the World Cup ahead of someone like Karasev
ReplyDeleteKarasev is a Russian. That's it.
DeleteAnd we should not forget, that lot's of us doubted Collum in recent years. After his appointment in the Super Cup, his star never really shined bright. In this KO-stage he did well and so it's a well-deserved appointment. But it's a development that came after the selection for World Cup, I think.
Soham, Political reasons. World Cup in Russia needs a Russian referee.
DeleteI must admit that, apart from the incident in the final minute of Shakhtar - Roma, Collum did well in this KO stage. EL semifinal is for sure a deserved appointment, considering also his long experience as UEFA Elite.
Delete
DeleteBecause the good matchs of Collum are too
recents.
Karasev is a hot favourite candidate for Panama v Tunisia in World Cup, I think :)
DeleteA very hot candidate, Soham! Especially considering conferarations-neutrality, taking in account the importance of the match, the quality of the referee and the place the match holds within the framework of the groupfase. I'd say Karasev is an excellent choice.
DeleteOr S.Arabia-Egypt (MD3)/
DeleteMorocco-Iran (MD1)
But yes, Panama-Tunisia is also my prediction, especialy it's MD3 :)
Dear Soham, this is not the first time when you judge whether or not someone deserves something based on appointments by UEFA. I can't agree with you in this reasoning. For me, performance matters, not appointments. Karasev should be blamed for his mistakes in Bayern-Celtic but not for not been appointed in CL KO stage by UEFA. That is, I do beleive that appointments are not always made with respect to performance principle. As a scientist, I need data to prove my statement. Unfortunately (or rather fortunately), the data on referees' performance is not disclosed. From my viewpoint, it's strange when Karasev gets no appointments in CL after his bad match whereas Stieler and Mazeika get 2 and 1 CL matches, respectively, after their comparably poor and blatant mistakes in both legs of Krasnodar-Crvena Zvezda. I can't exclude a sort of favoritism in Referees' Committee (personal or national). However, I am biased myself, and thus I make all these statements very soft. I need data to test the hypotheses before making stronger statements.
DeleteKarasev was a bit unlucky this season IMO.
DeleteHe made a good 2016/17, and his EL playoff was good (his appointment was a compliment to him not a detraction, Hadjuk - Everton could have been very challenging). Ray evaluated his performance in Besiktas - Leipzig quite well and promising, and Netherlands - Sweden was a nice appointment with a good performance.
When he got designated to Bayern - Celtic, I can at least remember thinking myself, this could be the next top class Elite referee (Ray said the same thing before, big development in player management was observed).
Of course then it started to go wrong, and he awarded then an at least very soft penalty if not crucial mistake when he went to EL as a demotion.
And he only got EL QF this KO stage (so far).
So I don't think his WC ticket is totally undeserved, but clearly his origin 'helped' the decision. I read an article where it said Russian FA were desperately trying to persuade FIFA RefCom to confirm his place on the pitch.
In fairness, Hategan destroyed his chances after the playoff, Collum is a very good referee but not a WC referee (IMO), and Eriksson & Kassai lost their form too much. So Karasev was kind of 'left' as UEFA referee no10 in any case.
I hope he proves us wrong on the pitch anyway, but it is not 'pure' politics, like Marrufo or Lannoy in 2010, at least to my mind.
Marrufo being selected is FIFA's consolation gift to US Soccer for it's national team laughably failing to qualify.
DeleteIf we assume CL SF for Cakir and Mazic and the final for Skomina, we have two scenarios in EL, which are the most likely IMO:
ReplyDeleteSF: Marciniak, Orsato
Final: Rocchi
or
SF: Marciniak, Rocchi
Final: Mazic
2nd option could lead to problems if Mazic has a bad CL SF.
I'd say:
DeleteRoma - Liverpool (Mazic)
Real Madrid - Bayern (Cakir)
Final: Skomina (FO: Rocchi / Collum)
Atletico - Arsenal (Rocchi)
Salzburg - Marseille (Marciniak)
Final: Mazic (FO: Makkelie)
I agree with your reasoning, Philipp, my choice would be:
DeleteMazic and Cakir CL semifinals
Rocchi and Marciniak EL semifinals
Skomina CL final
Mazic EL final (if the Serbian gets troubles in CL semifinal, then Rocchi in EL final).
Well, Chefren, I see a lot of similarities between your choises and mine.
DeleteHow about the fourth official appointments? Turpin has been there before, so Rocchi/Collum and Makkelie seem good possibilities?
Hațegan, Královec and Karasev are neutral options for Fourth Official's role in both competitions. You can add Collum only in case of Arsenal and Liverpool eliminated from the competitions.
DeleteBoth referees will officiate Europa League semifinal for the first time. For Turpin, more than deserved, despite of some weakness in his last game in Rome. Collum has been good in this KO stage if we exclude one incident in Shaktar - Roma, in any case this appointment is reasonable.
ReplyDeleteThis season has been the one that takes Turpin forward... His career has really taken off from this year and he gained much trust with some very good performances... Well done!
ReplyDeleteHe did indeed. One has to compliment him for the way he changed his refereein and overcame the catastrophe in Rotterdam.
DeleteTruth.
DeleteUnfortunately, one bad match can change everything. For example: Kassai. He got CL final very early, as a rising star, with only 36 old. What happened after that? He suffered a lot after numerous important mistakes in Bayern-Barcelona 4-0, where at least 3 goals were incorrect. He kind of disappear, but managed to recover and at last EC whistled opening game and was 4th official in the final. And then - again Bayern, but this time he and his team made crucial mistakes against them. Now, he is again miles away from the top. If nightmare match in Madrid never happens for him - he could be a strong candidate even for WC final. But, after that night, he "manage" to lost his place in Russia! So, one bad evening, few seconds without concentration - and years of hard work gone with the winds...
Clément Turpin and William Collum were not predicted by most of the blog readers, but both appointments seem logical and deserved. It is more and more obvious that, despite a high number of Elite officials, Collina & co rely on a very reduced referee group. Based on recent performances and personal developments of Elite referees, this seems quite fair. At least, a bit more than the WC selection.
ReplyDeleteI also assume finals go to Skomina and Mažić.
That's why, concerning CL, I think we may have forgotten Mateu Lahoz. Yes, his team's last game was not very good, but he appears as a reliable official and I am not sure the opportunity for him to get a CL SF will repeat very often in the coming years. So UEFA might appoint him in Roma, and this would be a smart way to prevent any bad/OKish performance from Mažić for instance. Plus, Çakır seems quite sure now for the game between Bayern and Real.
For EL SF, Orstato/Marciniak/Rocchi will very likely appear. I do not know who deserves to be excluded. In terms of recent performances, probably Marciniak or Rocchi. In terms of personal development and previous experience, probably Orsato.
To go back to today appointments: I am quite sure Lionel Schneider, who very often reads this blog, will appreciate the international and unanimous consensus on his fellow countryman Clément Turpin. I have no doubt he will transpose it on his highly relevant blog, emphasizing how much deserved this appointment is.
Collum was predicted. And Matéu is one referee
ReplyDeletecapricious and few serious.
It seems as all 13 VAR attending the meeting in Italy will be confirmed for WC. I can't give this info as 100% sure, but very likely, it is just a formal question about the final announcement.
ReplyDeleteRumours are rumours.
DeleteWe were told not to trust rumours, right?
DeleteWith the one slight difference being that in short future we will know if the VAR-rumours are true, as opposed to the fact that we will most probably never know how Rocchi was assessed by Hugh Dallas...
DeleteIt’s been reported that Hernandez Hernandez has been appointed for the upcoming Barcelona-Madrid match. This would be his third clásico in TWO years.
ReplyDeleteMichael Oliver has appointed for the FA Cup Final between Chelsea against Manchester United.
ReplyDeleteReferee: Michael Oliver
Assistant Referees: Ian Hussin and Lee Betts
4th Official: Lee Mason
Reserve AR: Constantine Hatzidakis
VAR: Neil Swarbrick Assistant
VAR: Mick McDonough
Great achievement for someone his age :) I wish him all the best.
DeleteGreat (deserved) appointment for Oliver, also the ARs. Swarbrick natural choice as VAR. Mason as Fourth Official suggests this season might be his last.
DeletePremier League
Matchday 36
LIV - STO Marriner
BUR - BRI East
CPL - LEI Dean
HUD - EVE Probert
NEW - WBM Coote
SOT - BOU Taylor
SWA - CHE Moss
WHM - MNC Swarbrick
MNU - ARL Friend
TOT - WAT Oliver
PL debut for Coote, maybe with chances for promotion next season, although IMO it would be too early. Important relegation derby for Taylor. Biggest match of Friend's career (on paper) since 2013- maybe they plan sth more for him next season. Oliver starts his road to Wembley, without his final trio.
Can you tell us how old is coote now please
DeleteIt better be Lee Mason's last season because he does not deserve this appointment. He barely runs in any games and always seems to make crucial mistakes!
Delete@Hussain Amer Coote is about 35/36, heavily pushed by the FA a few years ago. He was the best FL referee in 2013/14, and has made a steady progress since with some top clashes this season. If a lot of PL referees leave the list, then we can expect a promotion for him and Andrew Madley IMO.
Delete@Jackson Davis I tend to agree. He is a decent player manager, but he has struggled in the last years, and is no modern referee, also making too many crucial mistakes (even by PL standards).
Thanks for your respond and i want to ask you about the age of stephen martin- darren england-oliver lingford-geoff eltringham-jeremy simpson and david webb
DeleteDarren England: 1985 (33)
DeleteJeremy Simpson: 1975 (43)
I don't know about the other ones, let's wait for Mikael :)
Langford 1980
DeleteEltringham 1980
Webb 1978
Championship Referees 2017/18
DeleteReferee Age
Andy Davies 42
Andy Madley 34
Andy Woolmer 52
Darren Bond 39
Darren England 35
David Coote 35
Geoff Eltringham 37
James Adcock 34
James Linington 38
Jeremy Simpson 42
Keith Stroud 48
Oliver Langford 38
Peter Bankes 35
Scott Duncan 44
Simon Hooper 35
Stephen Martin 33
Tim Robinson 35
Tony Harrington 34
Promotion for 2018/19 to PL, A. Madley is the most likely IMO, followed by Coote, then Bankes and Martin. Darren England could be PL referee very soon, I hope also Tim Robinson but it seems he isn't so rated.
I expect Robert Jones and John Brooks to join Championship list for next season with maybe Michael Salisbury soon (his father was an excellent FL referee!).
Thanks for your respond I want to ask about chris kavanagh is he one for futere i like his style with calmness
DeleteThe problem remains. None of these guys is young enough to have a real shot for a good European career.
Delete@Hussain Amer, basically yes. He has got very good reviews this (debut) season besides at the last weekend, and I got to watch him live in January- impressive performance when he managed the match without cards. After two consecutive promotions, he still has much time at 32, and I think he can be a top referee in the years to come.
DeleteAnd I fully agree @anonymous, big problem since years here with isolated exceptions eg Oliver. The article below says enough...
http://refereeingworld.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/epl-highest-average-age-of-referees-in.html
So, Collina failed this time! He didn't justified his second name "Expect unexpected". All 4 appointment for the first legs we can call expected. Personally, I expected Turpin and Collum (and wrote about that). Turpin is clearly ahead of Collum and Orsato, and this appointment shows that.
ReplyDeleteWould there be surprises in 2nd legs? Why not?! We all expect Cakir in Madrid. Why - is there no other ref that can observe this game? Why not Mazic or Skomina, or even Marciniak (ok, not this year, but in years to come those are "his" matches)? Yes, Cakir's name is all over this clash, but we all forget that he had some inconsistency in his refereeing (e.g. at EC he was sent home immediately after group phase, and that wasn't surprise, because he was really bad). Is he a guarantee that everything will be ok? No one is. So, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Cakir in Rome, and some other name in Madrid. To be honest, I am tired to see same refs for same clashes in 1/4 or 1/2 finals.
Another bad incidents in Germany. After DFB rescinded the red card issued by Stieler to Freiburg player, Stieler chose to not answer on disciplinary committee's questions (for example, what exactly the player said to him). Most likely he won't handle any game this season.
ReplyDeleteMaybe our German readers can tell us more about another affair in their refereeing...
I'm always disappointed when I read that other federations don't have problems in annulling a referee decision on the pitch, especially red cards. This in Italy doesn't happen so often, I would say, almost never. First of all, referees association has its independence from the national federation, then, changing a decision in this manner must happen only in very, very clear cases. The referee must agree, or however he must admit de did a mistake. It never happens that decisions are taken indipendently from referees will.
DeleteNow, with VAR, even better, something like that has not reason to happen. Referees must be always "central figures".
So far this all is only media reports, not confirmed by DFB(!):
DeleteApparently DFB has banned Stieler until the end of the season (he is not appointed on the upcoming MD). The reason is, as Ray wrote, that he partially refused to answer in the court hearing about Petersen's yellow cards. The main theory is, that Petersen actually insulted Stieler on the pitch and Stieler did not want to admit his error to not show a direct RC for that.
Of course, the referee has no right to deny statements in such cases and consequences had to follow.
It seems, the ban was directly issued by the referee committee without any trial against him.
@Chefren: This is also very rare in Germany and most people were surprised about the decision to revoke Petersen's ban. DFB also has not published the formal reasoning for that.
Philipp,
DeleteWould you say the Steiler's pride led to him refusing to testify and thus being suspended?
Will ask him, when I meet him ;)
DeleteI can't really judge on his reasons to refuse, could be anything. So far, we don't know enough about the case. What I wrote above could contain speculation by the media.
Understood. Maybe over time, more information will be made available.
DeleteOT: Sorry to write here, the previous topic is closed. Chefren, it's difficult to "ignore" the debates of Soham and co., they are all over the place. It's your blog and you have warned them before. I'm deeply sorry that the blog is becoming a battlefield for fanclubs of certain referees (primarelly K.), not an enjoyable objective reading. That's all.
ReplyDeleteI fully get your point and I can only add that I'm sorry again. Next time I will delete everything for sure, that's clear. Room must be kept for interesting and important discussion. Thanks for your understanding.
DeleteOf course. No need to apologise. It's not your fault.
DeleteSince Mazic got game on sunday i dont expect him in UCL(Maybe in Rome), i think he'll get game in EL game.
ReplyDeleteLaLiga appointments MD 36
ReplyDeleteSevilla Fútbol Club - Real Sociedad de Fútbol (4/05/2018, 21:00)
Referee: Jaime Latre, Santiago
Fourth Official: Conejero Sánchez, Guillermo
AR1: Bueno Mateo, Jorge
AR2: Tresaco Escabosa, Fernando
Referee observer: Pérez Montero, Pedro Jesús
Girona Futbol Club SAD - Sociedad Deportiva Eibar (5/05/2018, 13:00)
Referee: Trujillo Suárez, Daniel Jesús
Fourth Official: Hernández Lorenzo, Ángel
AR1: Escuela Melo, José Carlos
AR2: Martín García, Francisco Javier
Referee observer: Miranda Torres, David
Athletic Club - Real Betis Balompié (5/05/2018, 16:15)
Referee: Alberola Rojas, Javier
Fourth Official: Sánchez Alba, Alejandro
AR1: Hernández Ramos, Iván
AR2: Cerdán Aguilar, Marcos
Referee observer: Delgado Ferreiro, Carlos
Real Club Celta de Vigo - Real Club Deportivo de La Coruña (5/05/2018, 18:30)
Referee: del Cerro Grande, Carlos (FIFA, 1st group)
Fourth Official: Fernández Buergo, Carlos
AR1: Yuste Jiménez, Juan Carlos (FIFA)
AR2: Álvarez Cantón, Abraham
Referee observer: Piñeiro Crespo, José Ramón
Villarreal Club de Fútbol - Valencia Club de Fútbol (5/05/2018, 20:45)
Referee: Gil Manzano, Jesús (FIFA, 1st group)
Fourth Official: Hernández Maeso, Francisco José
AR1: Nevado Rodríguez, Ángel (FIFA)
AR2: Martínez Nicolás, Javier
Referee observer: Enguix Sales, José
Málaga Club de Fútbol - Deportivo Alavés SAD (6/05/2018, 12:00)
Referee: González González, José Luis
Fourth Official: Román Román, Fernando
AR1: Becerril Gómez, Rubén
AR2: Rubio Palomino, Ignacio
Referee observer: Mariscal Sánchez, Antonio Israel
Club Atlético de Madrid - Real Club Deportivo Espanyol de Barcelona (6/05/2018, 16:15)
Referee: Munuera Montero, José Luis
Fourth Official: Cid Camacho, Germán
AR1: Alcoba Rodríguez, José
AR2: Matías Caballero, José Manuel
Referee observer: Ceballos Silva, Andrés Manuel
UD Las Palmas - Getafe Club de Fútbol (6/05/2018, 18:30)
Referee: Undiano Mallenco, Alberto (FIFA, Elite)
Fourth Official: Leo Ollo, Julio Fermín
AR1: Díaz Pérez del Palomar, Roberto (FIFA)
AR2: Prieto López de Ceraín, Íñigo
Referee observer: Pérez Riverol, Antonio
Fútbol Club Barcelona - Real Madrid Club de Fútbol (6/05/2018, 20:45)
Referee: Hernández Hernández, Alejandro José (FIFA, 2nd group)
Fourth Official: Escudero Marín, Ricardo
AR1: Sobrino Magán, Teodoro (FIFA)
AR2: Naranjo Pérez, José Enrique
Referee observer: Mejuto González, Manuel Enrique
Club Deportivo Leganés SAD - Levante Unión Deportiva (7/05/2018, 21:00)
Referee: Sánchez Martínez, José María (FIFA, 2nd group)
Fourth Official: Amar Ahmed, Samir
AR1: Aguilar Rodríguez, Javier (FIFA)
AR2: Gallego García, José
Referee observer: Sanz Hernández, Carlos
Hernández Hernández with yet another El Clásico. Congratulations to him! Also, good matches for Gil Manzano (Valencian derby) and del Cerro Grande (Galician derby), although I think del Cerro's is a bit better. Important matches for Jaime Latre (Sevilla fighting for UEL position), Undiano (Getafe with the same objective), and maybe Trujillo and Alberola.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteA fully correct and deserved Yellow Card issued by Turpin. Bravo!!! And it happened in of all things, in the very 1st minute of the game. Hmmmmm............!?!?
ReplyDelete9' we have already a RC in London.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely correct decision by Turpin, both YCs more than clear.
Wooow RC in 10th minute! But fully deserved! Bravo for Turpin. Wrong tactics? Now way!
ReplyDeleteI prefer this style than Kuipers' tooooo lenient!
DeleteAnd now Simeone is off! Turpin shows who is the boss on the pitch. So far - great refereeing and a very brave one.
Yes Teo!!! And his ZERO tolerance for dissent is great also.
DeleteCorrect second yellow for Atletico player in 9min..
ReplyDeleteExcellent, excellent, excellent decision by Turpin! 2nd YC after 10 minutes. No hesitation.
ReplyDeleteWell done Clément Turpin! Much preferable to Kuipers' approach last night, IMO.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely!
DeleteAgreed!
DeleteWasn't the 2nd yellow a straight red?
DeleteYeah it was at least close to the borderline, but I prefer YC (I can imagine some Elite referees choose a final warning or so).
DeleteBrave and correct RC to Vrsaljko by Turpin!
ReplyDeleteSimeone has been sent off. Excellent decision by Turpin.
ReplyDeleteOutstanding performance by Turpin. Just look at this body language. I have to admit, I was not the biggest fan of Turpin in the recent years. But this is simply a great development.
DeleteHe is truly a revelation this season. I believe that he has surpassed many of his fellow referee's in his batch, age group and category. His performances on the pitch speak volumes
DeleteAnd now Simeone sent off. I expect a long period off for Simeone after many clear offences to the referee
ReplyDelete
DeleteSimeone is always one unpolished.
10th minute Vrsajko receives his 2nd CORRECT and fully deserved caution and thus is sent off. Turpin is most definitely a pleasant surprise and a revelation this season.
ReplyDelete13th minute. Turpin is not putting up with any dissent(BRAVO!) be it from a player or coach. As he correctly sends Diego Simeone to the stands for an overly demonstrative and vocal dissent.
Simeone send off: https://streamja.com/ZJ5z
DeleteVrsajiko second caution: https://streamja.com/ZJ5z
Thanks Alex!! However you posted the same video twice ;) Do you have Simeone's sending off as well?
DeleteCorrea is lucky to get away with simply an admonishment for pushing Turpin in the back.
DeleteMy apologies. Simeone send off: https://streamja.com/zNA9
DeleteExpected that he sent the manager to the stands. If he didn't it would be a disaster. But I didn't like the way he did it. It didn't look like a body language with authority. He should look straight with the body language and decisive not point like that. And I don't like that the 4th official put his arm around the manager like they are friends. Never show respect to such a terrible manager.
DeleteOlympique Marseille goal was scored by arm as last touch.
ReplyDeleteYes. However, not a punishable one. Goal is valid.
DeleteVideo clip?
DeleteYes, but I don't think that this a punishable handball since the ball came from the players head. Such goals are always controversial...
DeleteUEFA and FIFA directives is to not allow any goal scored by hand. No matter if it’s deliberate or not.
DeleteThat directive flies in the face of the LOTG then...
DeleteWhy do you think in offside situations arms/hands are not counted? Because they say ''only the parts of the body that can socre a goal counts in offside'' Which automatically means you can't score with your arm.
DeleteGood play on in 23min !
ReplyDeleteGreat no penalty decision! Fantastic Turpin so far.
ReplyDeleteWould you caution the player for that dive?
DeleteThere is a contact, but also obvious simulation. Plan on is acceptable IMO.
DeleteObvious simulation=yellow card
DeleteWhat about Ronaldo last night? You said nothing for that blatant simulation.
DeleteI have zero tolerance for those who try to fool us by blatantly trying to cheat by diving. I always caution cheats. To include Cristiano Ronaldo if I ever had the opportunity. Lol :-)
DeleteI personally don't like the non booking of a player who tries to fool a referee by diving. I caution those players. But I understand that it's not a big deal for UEFA and not a point of emphasis for the Ref Comm
ReplyDeleteI would like simulation + YC. In my opinion it would be even perfect decision..
DeleteThe thing is that there was some sort of contact (at first view I thought it was penalty). Yesterday Ronaldo fell without any contact, and many people here said that it was good tactic decision by Kuipers!
DeletePeople were saying that everything was a "good tactic" by Kuipers yesterday. However, not my cup of tea.
DeleteThe only thing that I could possibly call against Ramsey on that high tackle would be Dangerous Play based on the height of the foot in reference to the other players knee. Because did win the ball cleanly without making any contact with the Atletico player.
ReplyDeleteI never ecpected such a development ... brilliant performance by Turpin so far. He has won so much authority in short time. The newcomer of the season and fit for big WC-matches without any doubt in my view. Compliments!
ReplyDeleteIt will be hot next week in Madrid. Comitee will need to think twice who to nominate.
ReplyDeleteRocchi?
DeleteRocchi is my favorite, too (if he doesn't get final).
DeleteCould you see Brych being re-used in this spot?
DeleteIMO Rocchi would be a perfect name after what has happened tonight
DeleteCollum in the first half
ReplyDeleteQuite unpredictable line of what constitutes a foul or not (push, tripping, handball allowed vs some unnecessary whistles). Apart from that, a missed YC to Ramalho (Salzburg) for a reckless studs tackle in the 3rd minute, then many careless fouls from Salzburg players close to their penalty area, then two very soft yellow cards issued in order to calm down the atmosphere on the pitch. Some prevention from the beginning and it all could have been avoided. Not my favourite style, to be honest.
The Marseille's goal is scored correctly according to the LoTG. Thauvin shots the ball with his head directly into his hand. No additional movement. No deliberate handling.
The same unpredictable Collum in the second half. In addition, a clear penalty missed. 7.8 (8.1/2)
DeleteI can agree with your analysis and 7.8/8.1!
DeleteISimeone clearly shouts many times "hijo de puta!" (son of a bitch) to Turpin, even after being sent off. It could be great if Turpin could understand this and write down on the report.
ReplyDeleteExcellent first half for the French one.
The video exists. So it can and should be used.
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DeleteThe FO is Hicham Zakrani to be correct - and I much say I'm quite impressed by the way he dealt the Simeone post sending off moment. He invited him to leave the field without being aggressive. Very well done.
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DeleteI remenber Turpin at Feyenoord - AS Roma. That was disastreous, today an excellent Turpin. Well done to send off Vrsajiko and Simeone.
ReplyDeletePossible penalty missed by Collum for a careless tackle. (54‘)
ReplyDeleteHas to be rewatched carefully.
Collum missed a PK in 53`. Quite surprised by that because I think he had a free line of sight and wasn't difficult to detect the foul. Or it simply wasn't "enough" for him...
ReplyDeleteMaybe missed foul by Turpin on 20 meters from the goal in 58' and after that he whistle not punishable handball.
ReplyDeleteTurpin almost perfect.
ReplyDeleteCan you remember Feyenoord - Roma, Gladbach - Manchester City, Austria - Hungary: surely these can't be matches whistled by 'this' Turpin.
DeleteHuge development by the French, no words for how he handled the first fifteen minutes- pure top class.
IMO Kuipers rather inflamed the match last night, Turpin's approach aroused full respect from the players and the match was largely calm after the first minutes, a compliment to the French who was sovreign from first whistle to last thanks to his unimpressed firmness.
My respect!
Agreed. From what I have seen this was a remarkable performance. Surely 8.5/6 area.
DeleteIt's so much easier to loosen the grip of a match when you start with a firm no nonsense approach. An early well deserved caution helps send this message to the players. Much like Turpin did today.
DeleteBut it's nearly impossible to do it the opposite way. Well at least not without having to issue a lot of cards with the majority of them having been preventable.
It seems that after many many years of struggling at the highest level the French can look forward to Turpin becoming their next really top referee. I'm glad, well done.
ReplyDeleteInteresting to see the reactions to Kuipers' and Turpin's performances.
ReplyDeleteKuipers in this blog: Mixed reactions, several more or less critical comments
Kuipers in general public (media, fans): Good performance, not a talking point
Turpin in the blog: Only positive comments
Turpin in general public: Some negative remarks about the early sending-off (too harsh, attention-seeking, no feeling for the game, not consistent afterwards).
Somehow normal, but also somehow strange to have this different perceptions. Not a new discovery, but highlighted in those two games.
Because of greatness of Real. Except on this blog, almost never you couldn't find penalty incident in 45' and clear mistake of Kuipers. Also, situation in 1st minute is very debatable. Ronaldo avoided YC and he should get 2: for simulation and handball and cheating referee shoving that he played by his shoulder. But, it is Cristiano and he should be always protected - on the pitch and in the media.
DeleteTurpin - well Atletico and Simeone are also great in football world, so for the public it is unusual when someone is strict to them. this was derby match, and nobody expected RC so early. But, RC was fully correct. I can't remember better first 15 minutes of refereeing from one ref! That was world class.
I am wondering how observers would asses those two performances... For me Kuipers 7.9 (8.3), Turpin 8.6.
The vast majority of the general public more than likely couldn't even quote any of The Laws of the Game. Turpin is well versed in them and enforced them in a manner that all referee's should.
Delete
ReplyDeleteTurpin must be in Real-Bayern.
They don't want a ref that gives quick red cards. Turpin would end up giving 2-3 red cards in such a game. And I like it but I don't think UEFA likes it. But Turpin today did what every referee at his level should do.
DeleteCuneyt Cakir surely in Madrid (our friends from Turkey could provide as information who will be in charge of derby match Galatasaray-Besiktas on Sunday night). If Cakir, it would be two top clashes in 3 days.
Delete19.04.2018 1900 Local Istanbul
DeleteGALATASARAY - BEŞİKTAŞ
Referee: FIRAT AYDINUS
AR1: SERKAN OK
AR2: ALEKS TAŞCIOĞLU
4th: ALPER ULUSOY
It was reported that Çakir has a game on Saturday with his usual trio.
I think that Cakir whistles the game in Madrid.
DeleteMarseille - Salzburg
ReplyDelete03' - studs tackle
https://streamable.com/hriuf
15' - goal by undeliberate handling
https://streamable.com/aqw73
53' - penalty incident #1
https://streamable.com/eg8w9
90+2' - penalty incident #2
https://streamable.com/b1d5f
My opinions.
Delete03 - SFP.
15 - No goal. Goal can't be scored with the hand no matter what.
53 - Clear penalty.
92 - Not smart to call a PK there. Common sense, play on.
15' - Very similar to Neymar goal cancelled by Cakir in 2015 CL final.
DeleteGood decision IMO, because handballs have to be deliberate to be assessed as fouls.
Penalising a player for a foul he hasn't committed is not fair. It's neither the letter nor the spirit of the LOTG.
3' SFP. Collum didn't issued even YC??!!
DeleteWithout handling, the ball wouldn't enter the net. So, the goal was scored by the hand.
PK in 53' debatable. Defender tried to avoid contact, although he entered the attacker's line of movement. For me supportable to play on.
No PK in 92'.
He can try to avoid as much as he wants but clearly he hits and trips him. It’s a blatant foul that is super obvious to me.
DeleteI must say I don't see your point, Teo. Or I misunderstood what you were saying.
DeleteIf a defender is between a player and the goal and if the ball is shot on the defender's hand (without any movement from his hand towards the ball and so on...) and then deflected, this is fully undeliberate and we can say that "without handling, the ball would enter the net". And that wouldn't be a penalty, assuming a correct decision by the referee.
Here the situation is more or less the same, except that it's an attacker.
I say "same" because the LOTG don't make a difference between attackers and defenders regarding handball.
If the handball is not deliberate, then the hand has to be considered as any body part of the player.
That's why I somehow don't understand what you mean by "without handling, the ball wouldn't enter the net". For me, that's a totally wrong criterion. The fact that the trajectory is affected doesn't really matter. What only matters is whether he handled the ball deliberately.
How can a player score a goal with his hand/arm and have it count? Scoring with your head, face, chest, back, stomach, butt, thigh, knee, shin, or foot. All those are legit to me. Because none of those infringe The Laws of the Game. But when the last touch comes of the arm/hand. Not so much.
DeleteI am sorry - you may say that I hide behind the LOTG - but actually they are quite clear: "Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm". And about goals: "There are circumstances when a caution for unsporting behaviour is required
Deletewhen a player deliberately handles the ball, e.g. when a player:
• deliberately handles the ball to prevent an opponent gaining possession
• attempts to score a goal by deliberately handling the ball".
So many repetitions of "deliberate", "deliberately"... It can not be for no reason.
In Sweden in all leagues the directives is to never allow a goal scored by the hand. Deliberate or not doesn't matter. This is because the spirit of the game is that a goal can't be scored with the hand.
DeleteVictor, I like the analysis that you used previously. Where you referenced arms and hands in regards to being taken into consideration when judging offside.
Delete
DeleteHandball must be deliberate.
victor: in terms of pragmatic acceptance, such guidelines are highly appropriate.
DeleteIn terms of letter of the LOTG - and even in terms of spirit of the LOTG, and I'm not talking of spirit of the game, as it can involve referees, players and supporters - they are simply counter-productive. Why would you apply a different criterion to assess a foul close to the goal than anywhere else on the pitch? It is not fair for the player who has not committed any foul - and this is the spirit of Law 12, who was thought to first protect the player of being sanctioned for something he could not avoid, resulting in a (quite) repetitive use of "deliberate" and "deliberately". If you automatically cancel goals like the one we saw yesterday, ignoring the deliberate/undeliberate aspect, the Law 12 losts part of its consistency. Then, little by little, people will be lost and will be claiming for "handballs" everywhere else.
Predictions for next week
ReplyDeleteReal Madrid - FC Bayern
Cüneyt Çakir (TUR)
AS Roma - Liverpool FC
Milorad Mažić (SRB)
Atlético de Madrid - Arsenal FC
Gianluca Rocchi (ITA)
FC Salzburg - Olympique de Marseille
Danny Makkelie (NED)
CL Final: Damir Skomina (SVN)
EL Final: Milorad Mažić (SRB)
In case of troubles for Mazic in Roma - Liverpool, who will officiate Europa League final?
DeleteAs far as I remember it was said that Marciniak has a SF.
DeleteHe had to give it up - he needs still a few days to recover from injury. Most likely he will handle an Ekstraklasa game next weekend.
DeleteMaybe Mateu Lahoz, but that would require that Atlético doesn’t go through. Very difficult to find an alternative name, if we assume that Rocchi will be in Madrid...
DeleteHonestly, I don't want to see again the name of Cakir. He already has 4 semifinals and 1 final in CL. Also, his performance in Juventus- Real was poor imo (I wrote in a previous thread my arguments).
DeleteI have the feeling that Orsato will get something. He should have some palmares because I see him as main contender for CL final in 2020 (or even 2019). There aren't too many names available: probably Mateu Lahoz will be out because of Barca/Real (honestly, I don't think he deserves a CL final based on what he showed until now), Marciniak and Turpin will be still too young (it's not a smart thing to give them a CL final at 38, 39 years old because we have the example of Kassai...). In this moment I can't see other names. Those who won't retire until than (Cakir, Brych, Skomina) already whistled (or will surely do) a CL final.
Honestly, because of bad management of Collina, the referees who will whistle the CL finals in 2019, 2020 or 2021 won't have a great palmares (I'm talking about CL semifinals or important games in EURO or WC)
I'm starting to think that, in case of "emergency" (no names available), the same Cakir could get EL final.
DeleteThe fact that he is appointed so many and many times would justify another final in his palmares, after the CL one.
But of course, if you ask me, he shouldn't be the first choice because he already got definitely too much...
@Chefren Cakir surely deserves to be given a chance to complete the full set of palmares at some stage... If at any stage he's appointed to an EL final, that would be well deserved :)
DeleteIt's funny and sad there are so few names to choose from for UEFA for such matches. Should be more alternatives. Orsato, Mazzoleni, Tagliavento. I don't understand how they can't be seen by UEFA for such matches. They can handle it.
DeleteI like the idea with Cakir as an option for the EL final. If Mazic (due to a bad CL SF), Rocchi (due to an EL SF appoitnment) and Mateu (due to Atletico) are not available, he could be the solution.
DeleteThen it would be no problem to appoint Rocchi for Atletico-Arsenal.
The match in Salzburg should be either Makkelie or Orsato, small chances for Hategan, Karasev and Skomina.
Of course assuming Cakir and Mazic for the CL SFs.
We have to keep in mind what happened in the past: In 2014 Mark Clattenburg got a CL semi-final and the CL final. Although it was a first leg, this makes me think that it is not impossible to get a semi-final and the final. Indeed, the performance needs to be satisfactory and there may not be any controversial decisions. However, bearing also in mind the surprising appointments in the past, we should not forget that this scenario is possible, too. Not very likely, but something to consider in case of “emergency“ :-)
DeleteI‘m sorry, of course it was in 2016...
DeleteThe 2016 final was planned for Jonas Eriksson we all knew that... And then for some reasons we all know, Clattenburg got the appointment after a good SF and Eriksson got 'only' EL final...
DeleteMaybe indicative news from Slovenia. Today the domestic appointments were made for matches on 2nd and 3rd May. Not a single member of Skomina's team is appointed. Looks like an European appointment for Skomina next week.
DeleteRoma - Liverpool? Or maybe Europa League?
DeleteSkomina will not do final then?
DeleteHard to tell, I could only guess. Do you think it is possible for him to get an EL semi and then a CL final? Or the appointment next week would mean Mazic for CL final?
DeleteMazic has never whistled a CL Semi-final till date so I'll find it weird to see him get the CL final ahead of Skomina... But all that said, the teams which are left in CL all combinations in the final would suit Mazic... But overall I think Roma v Liverpool would've been the best option for Mazic this SFs!!
DeleteIf Skomina is really planned for CL final, which match could he get next week? CL semi and then final - almost unthinkable. He had Salzburg in EL quarterfinal. Atletico-Arsenal? What about other referees available? It doesn't make much sense to me ...
DeleteIt would be strange to see Mazic directly appointed for CL final, without having whistled a semifinal so far, so a semifinal should follow on next week for the Serbian, othwerwise in any case I don't think he will whistle directly CL final. I don't see, for this reason, room for Skomina, if we assume that Cakir will be in Madrid for Real - Bayern.
DeleteI completely agree with you, but it is certaintly odd that five top referees wouldn't have been appointed in Slovenian 1st division for other, coincidental reasons ...
DeletePresuming Roma doesn't overturn their deficit, what about the idea that Collina wants to give the UCL Final to Rocchi? This would be the last opportunity, no?
DeleteAgain the same point to note as Mazic and that is no CL Semi-final yet for Rocchi in his career!!
Delete@usaref my assumptions are the same as yours. Last year Skomina officiated EL final and Rocchi was the 4th official, Brych officiated CL final and Mazic was the 4th official...what sort of combinations shall be this year..?? Just maybe a swap of names and/or leagues??
DeleteCL 4th official: Marciniak
DeleteEL 4th offical: Karasev/Hategan (no Turpin and Mateu Lahoz because of Atletico- OM)
Appointments Bundesliga MD 32
ReplyDeleteTSG 1899 Hoffenheim - Hannover 96 (Friday, 8:30 PM)
Ref: Patrick Ittrich
Ass 1: Norbert Grudzinski
Ass 2: Sascha Thielert
FO: Benedikt Kempkes
VAR: Markus Schmidt
AVAR: Patrick Alt
FC Bayern München - Eintracht Frankfurt (Saturday, 3:30 PM)
Ref: Christian Dingert (FIFA)
Ass 1: Tobias Christ
Ass 2: Timo Gerach
FO: Christian Gittelmann
VAR: Frank Willenborg
AVAR: Alexander Sather
Hertha BSC - FC Augsburg
Ref: Marco Fritz (FIFA)
Ass 1: Dominik Schaal
Ass 2: Marcel Pelgrim
FO: Robert Schröder
VAR: Martin Petersen
AVAR: Dr. Matthias Jöllenbeck
SC Freiburg - 1. FC Köln
Ref: Deniz Aytekin (FIFA)
Ass 1: Christian Dietz
Ass 2: Eduard Beitinger (FIFA)
FO: Marco Achmüller (FIFA)
VAR: Dr. Jochen Drees
AVAR: Patrick Alt
FC Schalke 04 - Borussia Mönchengladbach
Ref: Harm Osmers
Ass 1: Florian Heft
Ass 2: Thomas Gorniak
FO: Mike Pickel
VAR: Benjamin Cortus
AVAR: Christof Günsch
VfL Wolfsburg - Hamburger SV
Ref: Daniel Siebert (FIFA)
Ass 1: Lasse Kowslowski
Ass 2: Jan Seidel (FIFA)
FO: Sören Storks
VAR: Sascha Stegemann
AVAR: Sven Waschitzki
Bayer 04 Leverkusen - VfB Stuttgart (Saturday, 6:30 PM)
Ref: Tobias Welz (FIFA)
Ass 1: Rafael Foltyn (FIFA)
Ass 2: Dr. Martin Thomsen
FO: Markus Schüller
VAR: Dr. Jochen Drees
AVAR: Robert Kempter
1. FSV Mainz 05 - RB Leipzig (Sunday, 3:30 PM)
Ref: Bastian Dankert (FIFA)
Ass 1: René Rohde
Ass 2: Markus Häcker (FIFA)
FO: Michael Emmer
VAR: Wolfgang Stark
AVAR: Robert Kempter
SV Werder Bremen - Borussia Dortmund (Sunday, 6 PM)
Ref: Dr. Felix Brych (FIFA)
Ass 1: Mark Borsch (FIFA)
Ass 2: Stefan Lupp (FIFA)
FO: Florian Badstübner
VAR: Günter Perl
AVAR: Robert Schröder
Aytekin and Siebert with crucial games with teams involved in the Relegation. Aytekin with a minor injury.
Arka Gdynia - Piast Gliwice
ReplyDeleteReferee: Paweł Raczkowski (UEFA First Group)
VAR: Szymon Marciniak (UEFA Elite Group)
A really poor performance of Raczkowski - he really lost his form and I fear it's a bigger issue. He was never the same referee after the very weak Fenerbahce v Kuban. Today, he was not interested, not alert. You can see it looking at his positioning and body language. Fortunately, Szymon Marciniak was able to detect three clear and important mistakes, otherwise...
Deliberate handling
https://streamable.com/3uklv
Penalty incident #1
https://streamable.com/lieiy
SFP
https://streamable.com/yrzok
Penalty incident #2
https://streamable.com/j4pp5
I agree. Three crucial mistakes have been avoided by VAR intervention. Especially in the first situation, Raczkowski looked to be not so much interested in what was happening in penalty area... hope he will recover his form for the next season.
DeleteVAR has some psychological effect on referees. They know there is someone who will correct their decisions in case of a mistake. For this reason (I think) their concentration during the game is not the same anymore.
DeleteThat's my explanation for various (unacceptable) mistakes in Serie A this season.
For example, i's not nice feeling when you realise that you were wrong because of 2 cm offside.
DeleteOtherwise, without VAR, your decision would be very good one!
Croatian League,late penalty given by Tihomir Pejin:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pVzAkogTgg
Yes, SFP by the attacker just before the GK hit him.
DeleteThe attacker is in yellow. I think you mean SFP on defender black #17. I'd be okay with a caution to black #17 for a reckless kick, instead of SFP, but there are strong arguments for SFP, too.
DeleteThe result is correct. This should be a penalty kick. But the referee likely called the wrong foul and gave misconduct to the wrong player.
Oops, sorry, I was very busy with Polish league and just watched it with one eye. Of course, penalty to be given for a foul of black player (we can discuss whether it was only reckless or SFP).
DeleteUsaref. Yeah I mean the guy who kicked the opponent in the face should get a red.
Delete2 minutes of complaining to the ref, yet it's VAR that will apparently cause delays!
DeleteLegia Warszawa - Korona Kielce
ReplyDeleteReferee: Piotr Lasyk
VAR: Daniel Stefański (UEFA First Group)
SPA vs DOGSO with the foul not being a genuine attempt to play the ball
https://streamable.com/i3vrv
For me it's RC, as you said not a genuine attempt to play the ball and the attacker could have scored.
DeleteFor me also more arguments for RC, but I did not expect VAR to intervene here, because it does not seem an obvious mistake to me (+ I am not sure, what new information the referee could get from the review + nobody expected/demanded a RC on the pitch)
DeleteDOGSO + RC (Not a genuine attempt to play the ball).
DeleteIn my view, YC was a clear mistake, so more than justified intervention by VAR. That was a blatant OGSO and a foul not targeted to the ball.
Interesting that referee made a gesture for explaning that YC had been annulled by showing it again. It si the first time I see that and I must say it looks like a a very clear procedure.
OT
ReplyDeleteWomen's CL Semifinal Return
Sun 29/Apr, 1730 local, Wolfsburg
VfL Wolfsburg – Chelsea LFC
Referee: Olga Zadinová (CZE)
Assistant Referee 1: Lucie Ratajová (CZE)
Assistant Referee 2: Slavomira Majkuthová (SVK)
Fourth Official: Lucie Šulcová (CZE)
Obs/Del: ?
UEFA Referee Observer: Katarzyna Wierzbowska (POL)
DeleteUEFA Delegate: Camelia Nicolae (ROU)
Olympique Lyonnais - VfL Wolfsburg
Referee: Katalin Kulcsár (HUN)
Assistant Referee 1: Katalin Török (HUN)
Assistant Referee 2: Maryna Striletska (UKR)
Fourth Official: Gyöngyi Gaál (HUN)
UEFA Referee Observer: Irina Mîrț (ROU)
UEFA Delegate: Jeannette Good (FIN)