Fußball Arena, München (GER)
FC Bayern München - Real Madrid CF
Referee: Bjorn Kuipers (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Sander van Roekel (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Erwin Zeinstra (NED)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Pol van Boekel (NED)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Dennis Higler (NED)
Fourth Official: Charles Schaap (NED)
UEFA Referee Observer: Sándor Piller (HUN)
UEFA Delegate: Dag Steinar Vestlund (NOR)
Assistant Referee 1: Sander van Roekel (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Erwin Zeinstra (NED)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Pol van Boekel (NED)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Dennis Higler (NED)
Fourth Official: Charles Schaap (NED)
UEFA Referee Observer: Sándor Piller (HUN)
UEFA Delegate: Dag Steinar Vestlund (NOR)
Appointment logic.
ReplyDeleteSoham will be more than happy with this (and also of Dr. F.Byrch yesterday) appointment :-)
ReplyDeleteThat I am 🤗
DeleteWe all knew that. As I said, Collina do not have many options, so no matter there were mistakes from Brych's and Kuipers' teams, they had to be in the semis.
ReplyDeleteCakir in Madrid 100%. Only "mystery" is who is going to be in Rome - Mazic or Skomina. I think Rocchi will get EL final, so if we see Mazic in Rome, then Skomina is for the CL final or reversed.
I would like to see Mazic in Rome, the man deserves to whistle a CL semi-final in his career... Rocchi I'm quite sure will get Arsenal v Atlético Madrid in one of the legs!!
DeleteJust as expected. Now we can expect Cüneyt Çakır for 2nd leg in Madrid
ReplyDeleteSo, expecting for sure Cakir in another game (very likely Madrid), we could maybe predict Marciniak in Rome for Roma - Liverpool...
ReplyDeleteMazic in Rome, please :/
Delete3 years of top refereeing still no CL SF..
DeleteWell, to be honest, I had missed this fact. Incredible that Mazic never officiated a CL semifinal, I was convinced he had already done that. So, under this point of view, it is very difficult to think that he could officiate the final.
DeleteThis fact plays in favor of Skomina.
We could say Mazic in a CL semifinal and then in EL final.
Rome is an ideal setting to appoint Mazic I think... The two teams involved play good football and never get dirty... Something that just suits Mazic's style!!
DeleteMaybe important change of Skomina national appointments. No more in 2nd league on 29th of April, but now confirmed appointment at 28th in 1st Slovenian league - but not with the whole referee team.
DeleteI expect in Rome Mazic or Skomina. And Çakir
ReplyDeletein Madrid. But Collina can give one surprise.
Why one? He may give two surprises :D
DeleteExpected appointments; congratulation to Brych and Kuipers.
ReplyDeleteWell, Cakir is more than sure in Madrid.
If, as we said some days ago, Collum will get Marseille-Salisburg and, mainly, Orsato will get Arsenal-Atletico, Rocchi can't get 2nd leg at Wanda Metropolitan, so I'm expecting Rocchi in EL final. Or Real- Bayern, with Cakir in Rome. Less probable. Marciniak should get EL 2nd leg SF.
So I see following scenario:
MARSEILLE - SALISBURG COLLUM
ARSENAL - ATL- MADRID ORSATO
ROME - LIVERPOOL MAZIC
REAL M. BAYERN M. CAKIR
ROME - LIVERPOOL CAKIR
REAL M. BAYERN M. MAZIC
ROME - LIVERPOOL MARCINIAK
REAL M. BAYERN M. CAKIR
ROME - LIVERPOOL CAKIR
REAL M. BAYERN M. ROCCHI
ATL. MADRID - ARSENAL CAKIR OR KASSAI OR ?????? (expected the unexpected)
SALISBURG - MARSEILLE MARCINIAK
EL FINAL MAZIC OR ROCCHI
CL FINAL SKOMINA OR MAZIC
Kassai I don't think will appear anymore... He is clearly not a name for the big games anymore!!
DeleteKassai is clearly a name for big matches......
DeleteHe was but after Real Madrid v Bayern Munich whether he still is or not I'm not sure... Appointments this season mostly suggest that he rather isn't!!
DeleteO.T. I have one question about WC. Referees should stay in headquarter based in Moscow; How do they travel in the different stadium ? By private flights or by public regular flights ?
ReplyDeleteRocchi with only one game so far is another argument for discussion. Strange. Maybe the performance in Real - PSG was not good, according to observer and committee...
ReplyDeleteI think we shouldn't count Rocchi out from Arsenal v Atletico Madrid... CL Semi-final he won't be getting but the EL Semi-final is very much possible!!
DeleteYeah you can give it if you want :D
DeleteIf Orsato will get 1st leg of Arsenal-ATl. Madrid, it will be very difficult to see Rocchi in the same match at 2nd leg.
DeleteRocchi's performance in Real - PSG was not good, according to observer Hugh Dallas. The given penalty was evaluated as wrong and there were some missed/wrong YCs.
DeleteDear Unknown,
Deleteno way to get access to this info, we can only make speculations, we will never know about that.
Who knows, maybe it is Hugh Dallas himself writing on this Blog...
DeleteOr maybe Hugh Dallas has himself told Unknown about his marking... Always expected the unexpected...
DeleteSurprisingly, I heard the same rumour about Dallas' assessment of Rocchi's performance.
DeleteRumours are roumors, as responsible for what it is written on this blog, I just want to underline again that we are not allowed to know about that and it is impossible that Dallas revealed the mark. So, don't trust rumours.
DeleteWhy would it be so "impossible" per se? Even much bigger secrets have been revealed in human history.
DeleteMazic got game in JSL on wednesday, he'll probably miss weekend to prepare for CL/EL game?
ReplyDeleteMore and more I am thinking (and reading other opinions on this blog), I believe we will see Mazic in Rome and after that in EL final (only very important mistake could rule him out, and that's the risk if he gets semifinal). Then, Skomina for CL final. But, I would save him for the next year! If Skomina gets final this year, question is who will get both finals next year then? Marciniak is surely strong candidate for the final, but only for EL final (is he too young, he will be 38?) and who else? Who for the CL final? If no Spanish teams, then Mateu is the one (but I don't think he ever whistled CL semifinal, so it is unlikely to get straight final). Other names? Only Mazic, for the very end of his career? I don't know... And then who for the year 2020?
DeleteAbout Orsato and Collum for EL semifinals first leg: is that speculation or it is some insider's information? I don't say they didn't deserve it, but... For me, Turpin is clearly ahead of both of them (well, he is going to WC), Marciniak will get one semifinal, and also there is Mateu available for first leg Marseille-Salzburg (yes, enormous mistake in City-Liverpool, but nevertheless). And above all of the - Rocchi. It will be big surprise if we don't see him anymore this year, and Orsato gets EL semifinal.
*above all of them
DeleteMateu whistled Monaco v Juventus SF in CL last season... Basically he's ahead of Mazic in that aspect!!
DeleteI forgot that. Basically, yes, but, Mazic whistled 3 times in a row EL semifinals, and then didn-t get any appointment in the semifinal last 2 years. So, obviously it doesn't mean anything. But, who knows... If Real is out, Mateu could get even CL final this year!
DeleteNot impossible but thoroughly unlikely :)
DeleteAnother video about World Cup seminar in Italy.
ReplyDeleteThis time made by FIGC:
https://streamable.com/u5z0e
FRENCH CUP - FINAL
ReplyDelete8 May 2018 - Saint-Denis (Stade de France)
Vendée Les Herbiers Football - Paris Saint-Germain FC
Referee: Mikaël Lesage
Assistant Referee 1: Frédéric Hébrard
Assistant Referee 2: Huseyin Ocak
Fourth Official: Salem Hakim Ben El Hadj
Video Assistant Referee: Benoît Bastien
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Jérôme Brisard
Is this an expected appointment or a surprise?? Either way, our Mikael must be happy too :D
DeleteTo some extent expected for me, since a third division club has qualified for the final. If any L1 club had qualified, I'm sure Buquet would have gotten the final. But Lesage is overall doing good this season, he's probably the best non-FIFA referee in France. He's also getting better games this season. He was already in charge of a League Cup semifinal (Rennes-PSG in January), where he - among others - correctly sent off Mbappé after VAR review.
DeleteYes @Stake you right, I bet on Buquet but giving that it's not 2 L1 teams.. Lesage did a good season that's true but Delerue deserves it more in my opinion..
Deletebtw, is there some chances that it might be an additional VAR ref for WC ? Giving that there is no-French speaking one, it will be tricky for African ref ! If you have to choose one, Buquet or Bastien ?
I don't think, there is a chance for that, because this VAR should have participated in the latest seminars.
DeleteBut it might have been indeed a good idea to include a French-speaking VAR in the list from the beginning.
It's only Diedhiou and Gassama though, so maybe they get both only one match, which is planned, so that Turpin can be VAR.
Or, what I would prefer: They have improved their English. I mean, they are FIFA referees, who work at a WC. How difficult can it be to take 100-200 English lesson, if that is necessary.
@Clément Takks: if I had to choose a VAR from France, it would be Bastien or Rainville, who has done a lot of games as VAR and is doing well in that position (very good communication with Benoît Bastien in Japan-Brazil, back in November).
DeleteBut I agree with Philipp on this one, a potential French VAR should have taken part in the seminars, I highly doubt that someone from France will be called out of the blue. There is no real VAR "expert" as for other countries (Zwayer for Germany, Orsato for Italy, Makkelie for the Netherlands).
OT: What do you think who will referee Brasil-Croatia on Anfield in June?
ReplyDeleteMichael Oliver or Anthony Taylor surely?
DeleteCraig Pawson or Mark Clattenburg :)
DeleteNishimura?... ;-)
Delete23rd min
ReplyDeleteClean, all ball tackle by Javi Martinez on Sergio Ramos.
Kuipers is baited and fooled by Ramos' blood curdling scream and whistles the non existent foul.
Thank you for pointing out the one mistake so far from Kuipers. And this was around the halfway line, for the record.
DeleteGood performance so far from the Dutch, utilising his big experience.
He missed YC for blatant dive from Ronaldo in 16th minute. So what if he is CR7?
DeleteThank you for the compliment. I don't read anywhere in my comment I suggested that he's was doing poorly. And what does location of the non existant fould have to do with the price of tea in China?
DeleteYeah, wright... YC in 16' for Ronaldo in CL Semifinal.
DeleteSounds like smart tactic.
For a diving...
DeleteHow about a card for Carvajal in the 38th? Not a "smart tactic" either?
DeleteYou are wright. I apologise...
DeleteWould you stop now?
Thanks
The whole thing with diving needs to be clarified and enforced equally anytime and everywhere. Either it's zero tolerance and cautions are shown or just continue to allow it and turn a blind eye to it.
DeleteIt was a clear foul by Javi Martínez. Trailing leg tackle...
DeleteNo need to apologize. Just answer a question. That's what it was. A question.
DeleteSo what if he is Cristiano Ronaldo??? And so what if this is semifinal? Clear simulation, tried to cheat the ref - stonewall YC. And Ronaldo do that whole his career.
DeleteIt was said ironicly...
DeleteTrailing leg tackle??? If that your theory and what you're going with. Numerous fouls would then have to be whistled. Kinda physically impossible for a player to do anything with his non tackling leg.
DeleteYou go super soft in whistling this foul. Yet you want a lot more in order for a card to be shown. Great "line" you and Kuipers have.
@Teo
DeleteThis lenient tactic suits perfect for the 1st half, all of you can see that and that's the point.
I understand your point of view, you don't have to explain it again but I don't agree and that's a beauty of this blog.
Different opinions and debate. Right?
(Unless you are Sheriff, who always write only negative things for every single referee)
As dear @usaref said:
Delete'This match could have 4-5 cautions, or it could have zero. The only people in the world upset that it has zero will be online referee analysts. I think Kuipers, the two teams, UEFA and the vast majority of fans around the world will be more happy with his approach here.'
I do believe that Kuipers got the incident between Lewandoski and Varane correct. However I did notice that on that particular play, Kuipers was quite a distance from the location of the incident.
ReplyDeleteOn a side note.
It might just be me or I may be seeing things. But I am noticing a slight limp/gimp when Kuipers runs. It doesn't look like his usual stride.
38': Exaggerated reaction by Bayern bench, after a "normal" foul by Carvajal.
ReplyDeleteI think that the reaction depends on the number of fouls Carvajal made, not on the “quality”
DeleteZero intent by Carvajal to play the ball.
DeleteGood performance so far for Kuipers. I think Carvajal will a YC very soon!
ReplyDeleteOne, two, three, blah blah blah. All while the Madrid foul count continues to rise.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely ZERO intent by Carvajal to play the ball.
Kuipers decided not to ahow any card, and there were some situations when he could and in 38th minute he should. My guess is that warning in 38th minure was last we saw tonight. I believe that next, just a bit serious foul will be YC.
ReplyDeleteI agree. 38' looked like perfect momment for the first YC but I fully accept referee's decision to warn Carvajal strongly.
DeleteAnything to not show cards. I guess!?!?
DeleteIMO, he didn't issue it because of no card to Boateng for SPA in the 1st minute. All fouls were careless. Carvajal could have been booked only for PI, caution for reckless foul would have been too harsh, IMO. Good, consistent performance so far!
DeleteRight. If you ignore the SPA by Boateng, you've set a high bar already. From then on, Kuipers has taken a consistent approach and it has worked. He admittedly took a risk--I personally would have felt it very difficult not to caution Boateng. But I'm not Kuipers.
DeleteThis match could have 4-5 cautions, or it could have zero. The only people in the world upset that it has zero will be online referee analysts. I think Kuipers, the two teams, UEFA and the vast majority of fans around the world will be more happy with his approach here.
@usaref
DeleteAmen.
Oh forgot. Very good Kuipers so far.
ReplyDeleteGood first half by Kuipers. Everything under full control.
ReplyDeleteVery good and as Ray sad very consistent performance by Kuipers in first half (I would show YC in 38th minute but I am ok with Kuiper's decission). If he continues this way in second half there should not be problems.
ReplyDeleteI have a feeling, based on the comments, that some of guests on the blog do not like Real Madrid very much ;)
I have a feeling that some guests like to criticize European referees at all costs.
DeleteFully agree with EVERY single word ;)
DeleteOh I have a field day when ever I watch MLS referee's. They make it so easy. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. So no, it's not just a EURO thing. But thanks for ASSuming.
DeleteI don't think I mentioned MLS at all.
DeleteBut I found it hilarious you came onto this site to praise Bejarano's performance in Toronto when he missed two possible red cards and gave a soft penalty. You would have lambasted a UEFA referee (or MLS, I suppose) for such decisions. But you came here to praise him on a match that likely no one--other than me--saw.
It seems clear you like to praise Latin American referees and criticize non-Latin American referees (particularly, I believe, while seeing all matches through a Latin American prism).
Oh the incidents that I've already answered to in another thread? Where I gave you my reasons as to why Bejarano took the decisions he did.
DeleteWhy would I want to be a "Euro snob" when I'm Latin American and our referee's are just as good if not better than what's across the pond. That would be like me being from India but praising and adoring referee's from Holland and/or England.
01' - no YC to Boateng for SPA
ReplyDelete38' - no YC to Carvajal for PI
Lenient, but very consistent line. The game is not brutal, there is no tension between players, Kuipers reads it very well so far. Many fouls from both sides but they were only careless. Issuing that YC to Carvajal, Kuipers would have been accused of being efficiently mobbed by Bayern's bench, too. One word describing his performance - EXPERIENCE!
He decided to manage this match in this way, that’s it. Maybe it’ll be more difficult for him, but I’m sure he can do it.
DeleteKuipers is showing how great referee he is!
DeleteHe looked amazing and how "great" he is when he allowed himself to be admonished, ridiculed and belittled by Thiago. Bravo!
DeleteWhat about Carvajal's push in the 1st minute? Of course, Kuipers had no chance to see that, but something similar to Oliver's penalty incident.
ReplyDeletehttps://streamable.com/j1zv7
I don't think they are similar at all. Lewandowski is in control of the ball and he gets run into after he releases the ball. You can pause the video and see the ball is away and he has not been affected at all. This might be the type of incident you call at midfield for control purposes, but there was no expectation or appeal for a penalty.
DeleteOliver penalty incident is different because the player was charged from behind and kicked in the chest as the defender challenged for the ball in an attempt to prevent the attacker from controlling or shooting.
Similar type of situation with "soft" two handed push into the back.
DeleteWhy do you say or assume he no chance to see that? (Honest question)
OK, we can discuss about above incident, but it seems a clear penalty have been missed in 45+1', unfortunately... Lewandowski had a word with Kuipers after that and he was right, if you ask me.
Deletehttps://streamable.com/4w6kz
I had caught it live but no replay were shown so I thought I was wrong. But this replay says something different. It’s a penalty to me
DeleteThe 45 + 1' incident seems like a penalty to me, I agree.
DeleteBut I can't believe people want the early Carvajal incident adjudged to be a penalty. That's not serious.
Unfortunately it looks like a PK for holding...
Delete1st minute absolutely no penalty, 45+1 looks like a clear one, but very difficult to see if you ask me. But, with VAR, I think penalty would be given, probably just like one Guido Winkmann gave recently since Kuipers whistled for half time.
Delete@usaref, IMO Lewandowski was still about to play the ball when he was pushed from behind by Carvajal. That push severely influnced the quality of the pass, IMO.
DeleteMy comment was referred to 45+1 incident, just to be clear. No penalty at all for the other incident
Delete@CroRef My thought is the very same. Easy to spot with VAR, very difficult live. Not a crucial mistake imo
DeleteYes, even AAR couldn't help, he had 0° angle.
DeleteAbout 1st minute: I paused. When Lewa was pushed, he was still in possession of the ball.
DeleteI can't believe people have different standards here, only in order to defend referee: if it was PK for Real against Juve, then this is PK, too. In addition: this push from Carvajal was stronger.
In 45th minute - we all agree it is penalty. But as I said numerous times (and you all called that as speculations, conspiracy theories...) - that's Real. Now, they are 1-2 ahead and on their way to another final. Should be opposite.
And in 67' very suspicious situation in Real's PK area...
@RayHD, that's a fair analysis, but the important question becomes whether anyone expects the PK there. We can look at the video and say the contact affected the pass but in real-time that's a doubtful infringement and no one appeals. So I think it's an acceptable and expected no call, unlike the 45 + 1' incident.
DeleteTeo, when plays are skewered in this manner to justify or defend a referee. Those who do it lose credibility. But that's what this blog is. More gossip and gloating than actual application of The Laws of the Game.
DeleteBtw,is this Kuipers's last game in UCL?
ReplyDeleteGood managment before first YC for stamping and I like personality of the ref.
ReplyDeleteYes, but I am not sure, he had to give the YC using his line from the first half. Of course the caution was possible there, but IMO not completely mandatory.
DeleteI disagree. Such full-contact stamps are always included in RAPs as mandatory caution.
DeleteIt just goes to show how unjust things are at time. Madrid spent the majority of the 1st half tactically fouling in order to disrupt and/or stop the Bayer attack. Yet the first card goes to Bayern?!?!
Delete@RayHD I agree.
DeleteOk to play on at 67’, there was also an offside.
ReplyDeleteMissed YC for handball for Ronaldo’s disallowed goal at 71’
Some players don’t get YC...I don’t like that approach.
ReplyDeleteHere in Italy if a player controls deliberately the ball by hand / arm before scoring a goal, he is always booked. Maybe not the same in the Netherlands. But I want to ask, because I'm not sure this is something common in all countries.
ReplyDeleteAren’t there UEFA guidelines?
DeleteAdditionally also protest against referee decision.
DeleteI also expected YC
DeleteNo. Only attempting to score a goal with the hand is a caution. Ronaldo just controlled the ball with his hand.
DeleteIn my view, no YC is needed. A YC should only be awarded if the player has the intention to score a goal with his hands. At least this is rather common in Germany.
DeleteI don't think you can punish that handling with a yellow card because the shot comes after the whistle. It's a grey area, but my understanding is that you have to be in the act of trying to score for it to be a cautionable offence. Ronaldo is bringing a cross down more than 20 yards out and then he shoots. Do we yellow card this act because it's Ronaldo and he has a good shot there? A different player might dribble or shoot wide. And if 20 meters out is enough for a caution, what about 25? 30? It's a slippery slope when you start carding players for this sort of action when it's not immediately near the goal or goal area.
DeleteAgain the offence is attempting to score a goal with his hand. With is the important word
DeleteSo no yellow
DeleteNo YC for such handling. It has to be a direct shot with hand to earn a caution.
DeleteRonaldo intentionally stopped the ball with his arm. Then he shoot the ball and scored - he used unfair advantage and wanted to score. After that, he tried to cheat the ref shoving that he played with his shoulder and was protesting. All of that is not enough for YC? If that's the law, then something has to be wrong with it!
DeleteYou may disagree with it but it's the law nonetheless.
DeleteCorrect decission to disallow Ronaldo's goal at 71st minute.
ReplyDeleteI think the AAR might have called it (it looked like the AAR was saying “handball” on a replay)
DeleteYes, AAR was in the best position to see that.
DeleteAnd to add Kuipers made some players nervous
ReplyDeleteKuipers should have booked Thiago there.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he enjoys being yelled at and ridiculed. I mean I find no other reason to allow and accept such a visible display of dissent.
DeleteI also thought he'd book Thiago for that. Surprised that wasn't the final line he drew.
DeleteKuipers is, as always, more than lenient with cards. I must admit I don't like this approach when it comes to miss clear and obvious disciplinary sanctions. You can ensure a full control, but you must also remember that you are the referee there. You should not allow too much to players.
ReplyDeleteNo card to Thiago Alcântara for a clearest dissent you can imagine... It really destroyed the overall good impression in my eyes. I really can't understand why he chose to not book him...
ReplyDeleteI‘m sure Brych would have given this one...
DeleteFor sure Brych has a totally different style.
DeleteThis is basic entry level Referee 101. You never accept this level of dissent. To make it worse, it was very demonstrative by Thiago. Something that was seen by the entire stadium.
DeleteWell Bjorn has certainly been consistent. But far too lenient. As a strategy it hasn't worked out form him tonight unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteNot the most polished display from Kuipers, I agree... But did he lose the match control for once? The answer is no so the style very much worked!
DeleteThe least that can be expected from an elite category referee is not losing control. I wouldn't say his style worked.
DeleteAs I said not very polished, but in the overall context of the game which is not too heated or dirty this style works alright as it did tonight!
DeleteCorrect YC for Thiago. However, in Germany the procedure could cause problems... :-)
ReplyDeleteSo, all in all: Oliver didn't miss to whistle PK in favor of Real and Kuipers missed to whistle much more blatant PK against Real!
ReplyDeleteEpiloque: Real is again going to the final. Deserved? Who cares... We're used to it.
Kinda like how we already know and accept that LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers will yet again make it to the NBA Finals.
DeleteHaving read your posts over the past few months, which are universally negative I think you should stick to analysing LeBron James and basketball.
DeleteJust before I start, please don't this especially personally but I think it has to said.
DeleteBoth Teo and Sheriff have offered an interesting 'insight' tonight, I am sure I am not alone in passing on my thanks on behalf of everyone for that. But there is a clear difference between Teo and Sheriff IMO.
Teo really believes in what he writes, I'm sure he does believe in what he posts. Personally I couldn't disagree more with such a conspiracy but anyway, at least there is conviction in what he writes.
Sheriff just says the most controversial, attention-seeking thing that comes into his mind. I am actually sorry for him because it takes a certain kind of character to do that, but I fear for him everyone is learning his ways, and to not respond to him totally disarms him, but then he tries harder etc. A classic "populist"
Please discuss the refereeing and not a nonsense conspiracy, especially sth from basketball!
No thanks! I'll continue to be the lost voice of The Laws of the Game. Too many "modern" referee's and too many on this blog view them as optional. Why enforce the LOTG when cool and hip words like acceptance, control, line, and personality can be used instead.
DeleteYou just ascertained my point ;-)
DeleteYou have a clear agenda. You only criticise, never praise. Maybe you're jealous that Europe has the best referees in the world. Referees aren't infallible- that seems to be what you're expecting if you are actually serious in what you're saying.
DeleteThe bosses want that... They have to go down the modern line to save their careers the refs... If they go down the Castrilli way of refereeing being obsessed with LOTG to a inhuman degreee and lose their job, will you provide them with salaries??
DeleteSheriff you're inconsistent. You criticised Oliver for a correct penalty. Now you're criticising Kuipers for lenient game management. Let's see how CONCACAF do at the World Cup and if you'll be the "lost voice" then.
DeleteMikael, the thing is that my "conspiracy theories" is being confirmed from week to week when Real plays! We can call mistake when it happens ones, twice... But when they happen all the time, it can not be only mistake anymore! The only thing that I do here is to write my opinion, as all of you do. You don't have to agree but the blog is the place where different people give their different opinions.
DeleteYeah @Teo, I fully agree. I disagree with your point, but it is your opinion and I respect that. You aren't trying to irritate anyone etcetera- no problem from me.
DeleteYou talk sense on a lot of things, I respect your voice on this blog :-)
Regards!
Teo two questions: 1. are you questioning the integrity of Oliver and Kuipers 2. Is this due to the lack of matches for you're country at knockout level this season?
Delete@LOTG I can make a prediction... Sheriff is that type who will lambast Mark Geiger for even a small mistake but everything with Cesar Ramos will be basically fine... Basically some people will continue being the trolls that they are!!
Delete@Teo The conspiracy theories are something about which we will never know something for sure... It will always remain mere speculations... Since this is a refereeing blog, can we focus on the objective analysis of the referee's performance only? I make this request to you as a friend :)
Jealous? Of who?
DeleteAs I said before, what we have on this side of the world is just as good if not better. And CONCACAF will be just fine. They have always done well and have consistently be given major assignments at World Cups. So why would that change now?
Soham, you disagreeing with my point of view does not a troll make me.
Yeah we are all in awe of CONCACAF refereeing lol... God help us!!
DeleteAnd time for some honest criticism, if there was a contest for populists and trolls, you would win win it comfortably!!
Who asked if you were in awe of CONCACAF referee's? I simply stated my personal opinion that I view our referee's just as good if not better than Euro referee's. I then stated the proven and seen fact that top matches at World Cups have consistently been given to CONCACAF referee's.
DeleteFurthermore, your opinion of me doesn't matter to me nor do I lose any sleep because a fanboy doesn't like me. I don't post my opinion to be liked by one and all. Just like I don't step foot on the pitch trying to be friendly, buddy buddy and liked by the players. If players don't like me. No worries. But they will respect me as I apply The Laws of the Game.
Yes gotta whole lotta respect lol 😂😂😂 Btw how many World Cup Finals have CONCACAF refs whistled? I know Codesal in 1990... Who else??
DeleteWow, very good. You know your World Cup history. Yes only Codesal(MEXICO!) has been the only CONCACAF referee to be assigned to a Final. But Archundia(MEXICO!!) in 2010 was assigned to the 3rd place match.
DeleteAny Indian or AFC referee whistled a WC Final?
Please stop!! This is the height of immaturity! For you both.
DeleteAgreed. Thinking about leaving. Only Sherriffs and especially Sohams all over the blog. Getting unreadable.
DeleteIf you leave the blog, I would be really sorry for that.
DeleteI can't ban people, I can't close comments, I think everybody is entitled to write there and the best thing would be to ignore such readers, I can't do more.
One significant situation, 45+1 minute where he missed to whistle a penalty. YC for Tiago for dissent also muat be shown. Consistent in (not) showing YCs for foul play. And it is obvious that Kuipers rely on his experience and reputation with players, you may like him or not but is one of the greatest European referees in recent years, considering his palmares, maybe on the list of top European referees ever.
ReplyDeleteFor me 7.9 (8.3) due to missed penalty.
Great analysis :) Btw are you there in social media where I can get in touch with you? :)
DeleteIt's a crucial situation, crucial mistake and probably will decide the finalist (and probably the winner of CL).
DeleteSomething similar happened last year...
Well, I used to have refereeing blog in croatian some years ago and I still have facebook account - as you may guess it is CroRef :). You may contact me there :)
DeleteNo doubt that missed penalty is crucial mistake, but I don' think it is ok to say that only that situation decided a winner or will decide a finalist. For example, I think that Ribery is one of the main reasons why Bayern did not win. His performance was, IMO, catastrophical tonight, just as Ronaldo's (if he played tonight, I sae hik only in 71st minute).
DeleteMy point is, it is not ok to always blame referees if team you (don't) like win (lose). I am Bayern's fan for years, but I don't think it ia Kuiper's fault they lost tonight.
I'll get in touch you there, thanks :) By the way, do you see Mr. Conspiracy theory specialist trying his best to show referee favouritism against Real Madrid and that same old garbage??
DeleteJust like we also see a "fan boy" trying his best to reply to any and all posts which dare question Kuipers. Saying whatever it takes to justify anything and everything Kuipers does/did.
DeletePar for the course. All the characters on the blog doing their thing in their very own unique way.
A sincere request to Mr. Collina : Bring some Mexican referees on for the Real Madrid v Bayern Munich return leg... Cuneyt Cakir being the man manager he is isn't a good choice as he won't be flying the LOTG flag without common sense and man management... Some high class people won't be pleased in Latin America with such European refereeing... If only Europe could invite referees from Mexico for its tournaments or for training the current UEFA refs!!
DeleteAFC and CONCACAF have done it. So why not CONMEBOL and UEFA. I'd love to see Kuiper in La Bombonera for a Boca Juniors vs Palmeiras.
DeleteAndres Cunha believes if anyone can manage those games in South America without any trouble it will be Kuipers and Cakir and I think it was a discussion on teams like River Plate, Boca Juniors, Flamengo, Palmeiras and all that... So in that aspect I would rather trust him than you... And trust me guys like Cakir and Kuipers can be as bad as you please when the need arises!!
DeleteAnd coming to the European matches, I would never hope to see someone like Cesar Ramos or Garcia Orozco ever 😂😂😂
Please, stop that...
DeleteI was giving him a taste of his own medicine... Enough was going to be enough someday or the other :) He had to hear these some day @Ray
DeleteIt's all hearsay in regards to what you say Cunha "supposedly" said. Source? Or it never happened.
DeletePlenty of CONCACAF referee's have handled Euro teams in Official Matches. A lot of these have happened at the Club World Cup to include being assigned to Finals. And yes, Cesar Ramos (MEXICO) did indeed officiate Euro team Real Madrid in the Final.
Let me know when an Indian referee achieves this. Don't worry, I'll wait. ;)
Never have I claimed Indian referees to have set the trend on refereeing and neither am I obsessed with them ;)
DeleteCunha is someone I personally know and am friends with... I have quite a few acquaintances among International refs and that is why I value their views and opinions more than yours... Anyway I close this discussion because others will be bored!!
DeleteOT : Mazic got game on sunday.
ReplyDeleteAlso one more thing when Mazic gets game in WC Kuipers will be his VAR.
His VAR or his 4th official?
DeleteVAR, on seminars they are training together..
DeleteThat doesn't mean anything... They are always divided into smaller sub-groups while training... Doesn't mean their appointments in WC will be together!!
DeleteSo, no Real - Bayern for Mazic. Very likely he will be in Rome...
DeleteWell it certainly would make sense to have fix referee-VAR pairings, who already train together now and who are then used to communicate with each other.
DeleteThe downside would be to lose some flexibility in appointments.
Who knows, maybe we won't see Mazic next week at all. It is strange that he has game today, and again on Sunday if he is planned for the CL semifinal. Maybe he will be saved for the final, or get Arsenal-Atletico return leg.
DeleteMaybe he takes the "Stark route" to the EL Final:
DeleteEL R32, EL QF and then directly to EL Final.
Kuipers used his experience tonight, without problems to control the match, not arousing medial attention etc.
ReplyDeleteI can always remember Kuipers like this being lenient, Confederations Cup Final et al, and looking at his palmarés self-evidently it works and it gets him the biggest matches. Maybe he whistles WC Final this summer. Surely he knew that just totally ignoring the clear dissent by Thiago wouldn't affect his control, but one cannot close their eyes that much, at least that is no message to send to the watching world. It seems he exclusively referees to the temperature of the match, this is per se not a bad thing, but it only takes a small misjudgment to totally lose the control when one is so lenient. I fear for the day Kuipers is too arrogant, bends LOTG too much, and totally loses it.
But he was still good, or at least okay tonight.
This is too a certain extent forced... The bosses in Collina and Busacca wants this from the referees... This is the line in which all the referees are being directed to operate during the World Cup as well... And personally I would prefer a referee refereeing to the temperature of the game rather than waving heaps of cards like a certain Spanish referee... I don't have any problem with a lineant style as long as match control is assured... But if it goes down the Velasco Carballo route of Brazil v Colombia then I would be worried... But there is absolutely no doubt that this is THE style the bosses want these days and this will be the style adopted by 99 out of 100 referees in these days... That's the common line all confed refs are being made to reach!!
DeleteYeah basically I agree with you. By refereeing to the temperature, I mean ignoring (not missing, ignoring) such clear YCs, not being a manager on the pitch as of course all great referees are.
DeleteVelasco in BRA-COL was absolutely the caesura of modern refereeing, and Kuipers clearly has enough charisma to not be disarmed by such lenient expectations. But I fear sometimes that his leniency is too much, he is a little bit too arrogant about how much he can avoid LOTG, and maybe that will be to his detriment one day.
But we cannot ignore this is one of the great referees of his generation!
I hope he doesn't face problem in that regard... I think it's a continuous process so definitely Kuipers will pick up both positive and negative points from this performance...
DeleteMarco Rodríguez on Twitter (sorry, my Spanish skills are not so good, so it's roughly translated).
ReplyDelete"Kuipers understands and manages a series of ways of management for high pressure games. Believe me, few in the world know doing this with a positive impact on the game."
Source: https://twitter.com/ChiquimarcoMx/status/989224143777337346
I think this can definitely be said for Kuipers after this game. I think the overall management by Kuipers with his (very) lenient line was well done and worked fully, as he was totally accepted by players (if we exclude the Thiago dissent moment) and with his game-reading and his vast experience, he's proven again why he's one of the highest rated referees on the international panel. Having said that, next week's game should go to Çakir.
OT. Cuneyt Cakir has been appointed to a game on Saturday evening with his regular team, although there is a sort of desicive top clash Galatasaray-Besiktas on Sunday evening. If you're not appointing your World Cup referee to this important game, most probably because he will have a game on Tuesday in CL.
ReplyDeleteThanks, so it is now almost sure, but I had no doubts.
DeleteCakir in Madrid...
Seeing the incident at min. 01' with Lewandowski's push I immediatelly remembered the penalty which Oliver assigned for Real at the previous round. Seeing both scenes, they look very much alike.
ReplyDeleteAnd you see Kuipers to waive play-on and Oliver to point to the spot. I am quite certain that many conspiracy theorists would scream that both calls are in favor of Real. And I can't say that I blame them. 2 same incidents, for the same team and 2 different decisions.
But let's not forget. Yesterday's one was taken by an experienced referee with personality and the first one by a referee without any experience on such CL matches.
So, who is to blame? Surely those who make the appointments. When a referee is clearly not ready, you can't throw him to the pitch just for the experience. And if you do, which is understandable, you make baby steps.
Appointing is something serious. Not many people can do it. Just my opinion.
ATALANTA – GENOA
ReplyDeleteFABBRI
BINDONI – MASTRODONATO
IV: PAIRETTO
VAR: LA PENNA
AVAR: MINELLI
BENEVENTO – UDINESE
MARESCA
TEGONI – PERETTI
IV: BALICE
VAR: MARIANI
AVAR: DI VUOLO
BOLOGNA – MILAN
GIACOMELLI
TASSO – TOLFO
IV: SAIA
VAR: GAVILLUCCI
AVAR: SCHENONE
CROTONE – SASSUOLO h.12.30
DAMATO
DOBOSZ – POSADO
IV: ABBATTISTA
VAR: DI BELLO
AVAR: MARRAZZO
FIORENTINA – NAPOLI h.18.00
MAZZOLENI
VUOTO – PRETI
IV: DOVERI
VAR: MASSA
AVAR: MELI
H. VERONA – SPAL
BANTI
VALERIANI – LONGO
IV: PINZANI
VAR: ROCCHI
AVAR: TONOLINI
INTER – JUVENTUS Sabato 28/04 h.20.45
ORSATO
DI FIORE – MANGANELLI
IV: TAGLIAVENTO
VAR: VALERI
AVAR: GIALLATINI
ROMA – CHIEVO Sabato 28/04 h. 18.00
CALVARESE
FIORITO – ZAPPATORE
IV: BARONI
VAR: MANGANIELLO
AVAR: DI LIBERATORE
SAMPDORIA – CAGLIARI
ABISSO
DEL GIOVANE – SANTORO
IV: MARINELLI
VAR: PASQUA
AVAR: VIVENZI
TORINO – LAZIO h.20.45
IRRATI
CARBONE – RANGHETTI
IV: GHERSINI
VAR: CHIFFI
AVAR: CRISPO
Rocchi only as VAR. Do you think we could see him in CL or only in EL?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI don't know if he is injured, however it is possible he is planned for Coppa Italia final on 9 May... we will see. The appointment for the final would explain the particular treatment he has receveid on recent matchdays...
DeleteProbably Rocchi will get Arsenal Atletico Madrid next Thursday; seems reasonable if Cakir, Mazic and marciniak will get the others SF matches. Yes Guide seems to be preserved to be assigned for the Italy Cup final match. Even I would have preferred Damato for this final as farewall match
DeleteO.T. no updates from FIFA about referees for WC and their role. Is it confirmed that all the 36 officials already identified will act as main referee (or IV official) and that the 13 VAR invited at last seminar in Italy will be all of them included in the list ?
ReplyDeleteAbout the first question, I think this will be not clear until WC games, FIFA has not communited the exact role for every selected officials. It is possible some of them will act only as reserve. The only sure thing is that the selected VAR will not officiate games on the pitch (but very likely some of them they could be fourth officials as well).
DeleteThe final communication about the selected VAR should follow soon on next days, today or tomorrow the seminar will end in Florence for AFC, CONCACAF, CONMEBOL and OFC referees.
Havind said that, this discussion has reached the maximum of comments allowed and therefore I must close it.