Wednesday, 27 April 2022

Champions League 2021/22 - Szymon Marciniak in Liverpool - Villarreal

Due to the number of comments in previous discussion, let's comment here Marciniak's performance in Liverpool - Villarreal. 


27 April 2022

21:00 CET - Anfield (Liverpool) 
Liverpool FC (ENG) - Villarreal CF (ESP)
Referee: Szymon Marciniak (POL) 
Assistant Referee 1: Paweł Sokolnicki (POL)
Assistant Referee 2: Tomasz Listkiewicz (POL)
Fourth Official: Slavko Vinčić (SVN)
Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
UEFA Referee Observer: Stefan Meßner (AUT)
UEFA Delegate: Balázs Makray (HUN)

101 comments:

  1. 28' foul feels like textbook SPA when you see where TAA was attacking and how far away the other defender was when the foul happened.

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    1. Force was quite strong, even if only mistimesd, I think yellow is ok here.

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    2. I'm taking about the foul on Liverpool about 25 yards just before the vdv caution.

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    3. 28' is a quite possible caution indeed for blatant holding / SPA. Maybe not 100% mandatory, but nearly.
      I would say the same conclusion for the van Dijk YC, which was partly reckless and partly stopping an attack, but both not completely clear
      So IMO it would have been better to do the same punishment for both, either YCs or verbal warnings.

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  2. Usual Marciniak. Doesn't take Rubbish from anyone. Neither does his 4th with Klopp hounding him.

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  3. Every little whistle going for Villarreal. Interrupting flow of game a lot.

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    1. A bit too much on safe indeed.

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  4. Marciniak's very strong first half, expected level

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  5. OT: Turpin in CL final for Marca : https://twitter.com/RadioMARCA/status/1519405522960670725

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    1. If this is true Rosetti makes a fool of himself. It would rather be Makkelie or Marciniak.

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    2. I big surprise for me if Turpin finally gets the final

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    3. Did you have any doubts? but it's very clear that Turpin will do it. I told Chefren a couple of months ago that I thought he'd do it.

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    4. Perhaps it was indeed a deal with Batta when he suddenly left.

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    5. So the day after an amazing performance by Kovacs, liked by almost everyone for the fact that he allowed play, we are given Turpin for the final who has to play safe and whistle everything because he can't keep control otherwise... Shame on UEFA.

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    6. If this is true, Makkelie's appointments are a political punishment for a right decision in PSG-RMA in CL R16.

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    7. Then someone please explain me the appointment in Tiraspol for Makkelie.
      There may be only one explanation: Nasser Al-Khelaifi
      I don't believe in the Batta theory.

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    8. Please show a bit of respect…

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    9. To be honest this would be very surprising because everything was clearly talking in favor of Makkelie, his appointments until the last one in Conference League, the fact that he was out from big games like WC Play Off (the same for Taylor that could get ECL final), his path over the years (EL final two years ago). Turpin officiated EL final one year ago and would be strange to see him now immediately in CL final. For sure what I can say, if this rumor is true, that committee changed in course the choice. Knowing how they work by years...

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    10. Of course Makkelie deserved it, but when I read that Marciniak deserved it more than Turpin I am astonished. Marciniak was blamed by everyone on this blog when he was out of form, and Turpin was consistent and a safe pair of hands for the last years. Makkelie probably deserved it a bit more than Turpin, but I absolutely disagree about Marciniak.

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    11. In that case shame on UEFA. Could someone explain to me how is it possible that a club president is being part of a UEFA committee? Transparency? And how is it possible that UEFA doesn’t take action to this kind of behaviour?! I read here on the blog earlier that MR Uilenberg commented that the Refco was happy about Makkelie’s performance in Madrid. I am really wondering what is going on behind the scenes.

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    12. For me the ultimate proof this referee committee is spineless, muppets of Ceferin and his good friend El Khelaifi. Has anybody noticed a sanction by UEFA’s disciplinary board for Mr El Khelaifi for his disgraceful behavior after PSG’s elimination in Madrid…? I haven’t, and it’s so so clear to me. Mr’s Rosetti, Dallas, Sajn, Kuipers, Velasco Carballo, SHAME ON YOU.
      It’s easy to know why a certain Italian former top referee left UEFA’s refereeing committee, he is a true leader!

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    13. Absolutely astounded by the lack of respect towards the Frenchman…

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    14. Turpin is a fine referee, but this season wasn’t his best.

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    15. @Anonymous 22:32 Me? Did I said something wrong?

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    16. Turpin is a top referee, as Makkelie is too

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    17. There’s no lack of respect towards Turpin, it’s just the opinions are that a final appointment for him would be undeserved based on performance principle. There is a lack of respect towards the refcom though, but that’s a justified lack of respect IMHO.

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    18. @matei no not you, but there is a general outcry after this rumour was annonced and I don’t understand why. Reading the messages I have the impression that Turpin is the worst referee ever. I would have preferred Makkelie too, but TBH it would not be undeserved if Turpin gets the final appointment this year.

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    19. @anonymous 22:42
      It's normal here having lack of respect towards some referees...

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    20. That’s not a rumor, he wrote ‘es mi apuesta’, means ‘it’s my bet’.
      Just his opinion. Makkelie deserves it and the appointment strategy proves that he will get the match.

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    21. Pavel Fernández says on his twitter account that Turpin is his bet for the Champions League final, just that. It's just a prediction, nothing serious

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    22. The rumor is 99% true because Turpin has a game on Sunday.

      I agree with many of the comments above. Its not a lack of respect towards the French. He is a great referee, but Makkelie is even better. How he handles the most complicated challenging matches is simply amazing.

      Its the bad treatment of Makkelie and the PERFORMANCE criticle that is completly gone that makes me really dissapointed.

      Final referees are chosen in advance and kept in the shadow, not any handling potentially problematic games. I am so so done with this Ref committee.

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    23. Thank you xabi, here everyone gives prediction everyday but if someone does it on Twitter predictions become The Truth :)

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    24. No, Anonymous 23,14, I dont agree. it’s not 99% sure. It will be 99% sure if Makkelie gets Villarreal Liverpool…
      We have three scenarios:

      Scenario 1
      VIL LIV: Any ref (not Makkelie)
      RMA MCI: Turpin
      Final 100% Makkelie

      Scenario 2:
      VIL LIV: Makkelie
      RMA MCI: Any ref (not Turpin)
      Final 100% Turpin

      Scenario 3:
      Both SF without Makkelie and Turpin. Most complicate one. In this one look at their paths, Makkelie got just five games (4 grop stage and a R16), Turpin 6 (4 group stage, R16, QF). So you have, in this scenario, just stopped Makkelie in R16 for no reason, letting Turpin, Marciniak and others doing all the rest…


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    25. @MdN : I’m afraid it is the truth. I dont believe that Turpin travels to Leipzig (Thursday), to Montpellier (Sunday) followed by a midweek CL destination. Highly unlikely.

      During the CL group stage my assumption was that Makkelie was clearly anticipated. Using Turpin in sth like POR-ATM was quite risky. I also think they changed course for some reason, like Chefren stated. Maybe El-Khalaifi or other political reasons. Whatever. I feel sorry for Makkelie.

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  6. Really interesting news about Daniele Orsato. Today the Italian has officiated an U15 match near Recoaro where he lives.

    This news could be translated as an imminent return to the pitch and maybe for the second legs of Uefa Champions League SF

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    1. Its clear

      Orsato in Madrid
      Makkelie in Villareal. And treated very badly after RMA-PSG

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  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  8. The fact that so many posts here are written about politics and not about Marciniak and LIVVIL makes me believe that his performance is undisputed by most of us here tonight ...

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  9. A good performance by Marciniak but we can't call this a test for him. Somehow, this was expected by committee given the observer.

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  10. So who can we expect next week with Dallas as observer?

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  11. Meanwhile, with a good performance in CL semifinal, Marciniak is definitely first name for EL final if you ask me.

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    1. Agreed, expected level + normal difficulty for the Pole. We can surely expect him in a further assignment for UEFA this season.

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    2. If West Ham are out, I think maybe Taylor for that game, since opportunities for English referees seem so hard to come by these days. Maybe Marciniak for the UECL Final.

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  12. I would like to express next, in 2016 all rumorus was that Eriksson was in Cl final. He was not. Second- Makellie deserve Cl final and thats all. I think that we can see Jovanovic in Villarreal next week.

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  13. Marciniak's very good performance in Liverpool, Szymon's great season

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  14. New Elite or Cüneyt Cakir

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  15. Very good performance of Marciniak

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  16. Now croatian former referee Marijo Strahonja has said that he believes thatcTurpin will handle the final.

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  17. Apologies for going back but here is a leaked information: 13.4 kilometres run by Istvan Kovacs Tuesday !

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  18. Really Inconsistent performance from Marciniak to say the least. AR1 had a rubbish game with blatant throw ins wrong in front of him. Vicnic should have seen one too. He slowed the game too much by insisting on having a five min conversation and giving soft free kicks against Liverpool but not for liverpool. That free kick decision at the end will loose him marks. Gives it because the player is rolling around and gets its wrong

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    1. I noticed AR1 didn't have the most impressive work rate. It's one thing to not run back with defenders on a back pass in a random league game, but this is the CL semifinals.

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  19. I bet Makkelie was never really anticipated for the final. Basically he got the same treatment as Mateu at the Euro’s.
    Rosetti knew he ‘burned’ Mateu when he appointed him to the crucial “high profile” match Portugal-France.
    Rosetti also knew he burned Makkelie when he appointed him to the tight return game Real M-PSG. In those games, every decision is under a magnifying glass and the losing side is always the bad loser, looking for excuses, pointing at the referee. The losing side was also mr. Khalaifi who wanted to expose ”his” CUP at the WC in Qatar.

    I feel sorry for all the dedicated referees working their ass off, being a true sportman, whilst not making a chance for a final because of a committee that is not making decisions based on performances (for a few years now..)

    Hppefully Collina will have a different strategy at the WC.


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  20. My political theory is that Makkelie is not a final candidate at WC’22, neither at EURO’24, because his compatriot Kuipers just had the EURO’20 final.

    I assume Makkelie’s first opportunity is at the WC’26 or EURO’28. Based on this theory, his CL final can also be ‘postponed’ if you guys get my point. Now they are actually “granting” the CL final experience to a collegue who will be a candidate at the next World Cup in Qatar (based on his nationality :X)

    UEFA is drifted by politics. Favoritism all over. Disgusting. Refereeing is top sport, but nowadays the performance is no longer the most important criterion. The 3rd category was recently abolished; another signal. This helps committee to make even quicker promotions, in particular for the big influental countries.

    Thanks to all these recent developments, I’m less and less interested in watching and evaluating a referees’ performance.

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  21. Well, the information of the Spanish media telling thar Turpin will be the referee in the Champions League Final was only an opinión of the journalist
    https://twitter.com/pavelfernandez_/status/1519409497495814145?t=-0DJmXni1A57-3mVACaI0g&s=19

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    1. If Makkelie will not get the UCL final, it will only be due to OSG and Al Khelaifi...

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    2. *PSG, not OSG.

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    3. Maybe. But if Makkelie was anticipated, I actually don’t think they would appoint him to the risky PSG game.

      Something made them change course. Maybe Kuipers just having the Euro final isnt a bad theory, given the ‘divide everything’ principle.
      Political nonsense..

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  22. Ivan Barton (SLV) referees the first leg of the CONCACAF Champions League final. I have to think Said Martinez (HON) will have the second leg, though perhaps it could be Oshane Nation (JAM).

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    1. Penalty kick decision, what are your thoughts? I think it is the wrong decision. Enough for the VAR to get involved? https://streamable.com/oonj42

      The penalty was originally saved, but retaken after an on-field review because the Seattle goalkeeper was off his line early and saved the shot.

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    2. It seems soft, but correct PK.

      Martinez will have the second leg.

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    3. I will post clips when I find a way to get them, but a very interesting evening for Barton. On top of the penalty I already mentioned, there was a penalty for Seattle in the second half for a clear handball following a corner kick, but the VAR Cornejo recommended an on field review for a push in the back by an attacker just a bit before the handball. To me, it was a clear push, but Barton retained his decision.

      Then, late in the game, another penalty for Seattle, given after OFR.

      A relatively weak performance by Barton IMO, he didn't look sharp today. Besides the three OFRs, I thought there were a lot of smaller fouls that he didn't seem confident about. I thought he was missing some sort of energy tonight. Will be interesting to see how (if my prediction is correct) his "competitor" will do in the second leg, which is shaped up to be a very difficult game now given the 2-2 scoreline. The players seemed to keep their tempers under control in this one only because there was a second leg still to come; it could explode next week.

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    4. Oh please God not Oshane Nation, Drew Fischer, Ricardo Montero, John Pitti, Reon Radix, or Daneon Parchment.

      Yes to Martinez or Escobar (the "FIFA Version" of course)

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    5. Time and time again, Barton has shown that he doesn't have what's needed to succeed in the "BIG MATCHES" in CONCACAF that he's been gifted. He ends up looking like a person who can't swim that's been thrown into the deep end of the pool. Simply overcome and overtaken by the moment and environment.

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    6. In reality I think Martinez is the only name for this match… Fischer cannot do it as there is an MLS team, Montero I suppose is possible like Nation but his stock has fallen (the only reason I mention Nation is because his stock seems to be rising and there is no strong reason to rule him out), Pitti has been off the face of the earth for a while, Radix is nowhere close to this game, and Escobar and Parchment had semifinals.

      The battle between Barton and Martinez continues to be interesting, and seeing them have each leg of this final would be an interesting comparison (though Leg 2 should be harder). Recently I have been thinking that Barton is slightly ahead, but now I’m doubting that. Martinez had the gold cup final; assuming he gets the second leg of the CCL Final, that puts him clearly ahead in CONCACAF’s eyes, and after last night’s performance, I can’t disagree.

      I do disagree with second anonymous’s assertion that Barton can’t handle big games - he’s handled plenty of semifinals quite well, especially when considering CONCACAF’s limitations. He showed well at the Olympics. But tonight wasn’t his night, and Martinez has a chance to pull ahead if he delivers a good performance in what is set up to be a very challenging final match next week. I am interesting to see Martinez’s tactical approach: does he employ the same ultra-conservative strategy used at the Gold Cup Final, calling lots of fouls and smothering the game with his whistle, leaving us with a controlled but rather unaesthetic match, or does he take more of a risk?

      This battle is of course very important because of CONCACAF takes just 4 referees to Qatar, then the fourth will likely be one of these two. The question is who?

      Actually, last night, the Fox Sports commentator John Strong, who is always impressively in-the-know about referees, stated that CONCACAF was “hoping to take as many as *5* referees” to the World Cup. He would not make that up on just speculation, so I think there is a distinct possibility we see a fifth go. So the door could be open to see both of these two, or perhaps a second Mexican or American, as a main referee in Qatar.

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  23. Off-topic / meta: it seems like the Blogspot comment box has changed. Now the text is huge when I type it (see image here: https://imgur.com/OIkj8Cq). Is there any way to fix this? It's not the end of the world cup a little bit annoying.

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    1. * end of the world, not end of the world cup, ha

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  24. Guys, if Vincic is not in Champions League next week, I think he has the UEL final.

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  25. If Kuipers is observing next week in Madrid, I assume we will see this:
    -VILLIV: Makkelie
    -RMAMCI: Orsato

    However, personally I prefer Makkelie in Madrid, considering the high intensity and pace of that first leg and the distance covered by Kovacs. Orsato was reported to have physical issues for longer time. Maybe the game in Villareal suits him better?
    I don’t see any other names for next week btw

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    1. Maybe. But MCI-RMA was also 22 players focused on playing football and Makkelie, for some reason, is always used in matches where players have to be managed. Not sure the game in Villareal really needs him though, given the standings.

      I assume Makkelie has the WC play-off final (A) in June. That makes it reasonable to appoint a different ref in Madrid

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    2. If Orsato is not available, I think it will be Vincic in Madrid

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  26. Friday
    Giresunspor-Adana Demirspor
    Halil Umut Meler

    No game for Cüneyt Cakir

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  27. Offtopic:

    I am a bit confused by committees appointment strategy. Under normal circumstances, it must be an honour for a referee to be appointed to, for instance, a high profile game, or challenging match like RMA-PSG, or Portugal against France.

    Nowadays, it seems to be the committe strategy to hide the anticipated final referees very early, assigning them to ‘not-too-problematic games’ on paper.
    And all the referees that are not a final candidate have to officiate the most challenging matches, even when there are better much better options for the game!

    What do you guys think of this strategy?
    Is it indeed ‘destroying’ the chances of others by using them in a game that doesn’t suit their style(?), or in a high profile game where you can always expect some negative headlines afterwards? Is Rosetti caring too much about headlines before a whistle has blown?

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    1. This has been critized a lot on this blog by several readers.
      IMO the performance critical should be leading, when committe select the referee for a final

      -Political choices can be demotivating
      -Rewarding the best performing referees is more fair. And at the same time it results to better QUALITY at the pitch

      I respect mr Kuipers and mr Turpin (assuming he has the final), BUT: Kuipers was not the best performing ref at the EURO and the French was not the best performing ref during the 2021/2022 season.

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    2. @Anonymous 9:38. Personally I think that protecting a potential final match candidate is a very good strategy to loose the possibility to assign him. Unfortunately referees performance are always under the spot and any kind of action is analyzed and criticized too much everywhere: by teams, by players, by press, on the social media like as our fantastic blog. If you have a pool of two or three candidates for a final match and if you appoint them in the SF matches you could take the risk that only one controversy episode will forbid him to officiate the final and you could loose your pool of candidates. This is much more true now, in the hystorical period, where only very few referees are able to officiate a final match. This happened some years ago, where Skomina lost CL final match for a mistake in the SF and Collina was obliged to double Kuipers (deservedly) in the Eurpo League final. In the 80s and 90s, there were a lot of referees able to officiate final matches so the choice was wider and the risk smaller. I guess that one referee has demonstrated to be high performant in GS, WC QF and R16 or QF it doest'y needed to risk him in the SF. Don't forget the possibility of injury...

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    3. Protecting the prospective final referee is one thing. But I agree that it doesn't make sense for UEFA to "punish" referees who are appointed to tough matches early on. The best example is Mateu Lahoz at the EURO. He was clearly the only referee trusted with 3 group stage matches, and this was on merit. Then something goes wrong in his third game, a third game that no other referee had to contend with, and that ends his tournament and sees him out of the knockout stage? Meanwhile, other referees who weren't good enough to be given a third game advance and move on. That doesn't feel right to me. It was unfair to him.

      How must Mateu Lahoz have felt when he saw that third assignment trickle in? Would it have been "Oh good, they trust me a lot and have given me additional opportunities!" or "Oh no, now my surefire place in the knockout stage could be at risk, I wish I hadn't received this assignment."?

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  28. IS THAT TRUE THAT MR CLEMENT TURPIN WILL BE IN CHARGE OF UCL FINAL?

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    1. Not true, it has been told by a spanish journalist/former referee. RadioMarca.com reported it as true.

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    2. SO WE HAVE TO WAIT!!!!

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  29. Orsato is back.
    He will officiate Serie A match Cagliari- Verona on Saturday 30th.

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  30. Orsato back in Cagliari - Verona, indeed quite sure he will officiate in Champions, rather on Wednesday (Madrid, with Kuipers).

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    1. I agree with you. Positive test for him yesterday in U15 match, out of the spotlights on Saturday and then in Champions for the most important match.

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    2. Haven't the appointments already been made for next week?

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  31. So Makkelie, the best performing referee in R16 (in the toughest game!) was appointed in an extremely low profile game in the QF's to be "saved" for the least interesing CL semi final out of 4 ??

    That's ridiculous. What a joke.

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  32. Indeed, that’s all a joke started when Pavel Fernandez wrote his personal prediction on Twitter. If there was some secret information about Turpin, for sure UEFA wouldnt share it with Spanish press, but logically with French one… and he posted his Tweet at 21,58, Liverpool Villarreal were at HT 0-0, there were still some (little) chance to see Taylor in a RMA-VIL final, so UEFA did not decide anything official about it…

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    1. Obviously is nothing decided yet. This prediction really heated the atmosphere on blog yesterday. I am just really disappointed in Marca for sharing things like that. I thought they are a more serious and trustable source.

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    2. I still hope and believe that Makkelie will get the final.

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    3. Totally agree about Makkelie. I can’t wait to see next CL appointments

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  33. Aside from officiating yesterday's game.
    Notice dramatically in yesterday's game how the back pass rule has increased excitement. The goalie is now a field player who while being challenged sometimes appears to release ball at the very last second.
    Also noticed that despite having ALL 10 field players in last 1/3, Villareal could NOT stop beautifully executed through balls in the box as well as leaving very open Liverpool outside forwards. Not easy for all 10 players to execute in sync.

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  34. One other non officiating observation.
    How Villareal used another new tactic in time wasting: after a goal kick awarded, Villareal sets up in traditional goal kick set up, keeper in box, fullbacks in line on each side. After several seconds in this set, keeper waves his fullbacks forward, then he does what all keepers do in time wasting mode:
    The standard of waiting another 10+ seconds before kicking.

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  35. Out of curiosity, when UEFA top referees are doing games in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE or Kuwait, are they personally invited by the host federation or appointed by UEFA?

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  36. The three penalties awarded by Iván Barton in the first leg of the CONCACAF clubs final last night (all featuring OFRs for different reasons):

    33': https://streamable.com/leo00z
    73': https://streamable.com/dbbokv
    +95': https://streamable.com/iea16q

    What do you think?

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    1. 33' I don't think this is a foul, the defender wins the ball before making any contact, and then the two collide equally. Maybe enough of a mistake for a review, maybe not, but to me, Barton got this one wrong.

      73' The handball is clear, that is a good call by Barton. But the OFR is for the push beforehand, which I think is a 100% clear foul. The arms are to the back, and they clearly extend, clearing out the defender who would have had a chance to win the header. I don't understand why Barton let his PK call stand.

      90'+5' On the face of it, this is a simple foul, it's a kick to the knee; even if the force is really quite low, the point of contact is there. But, in contrast with the two decisions above, it feels inconsistent to me. For one: if the first penalty was not obvious enough for a review, this one was? Second, the push before the second penalty feels like far more of a foul than this one to me. So this decision was not bad in isolation, but I think it highlights the inconsistency throughout the night, which was, in my view, a noticeable trait in this game more broadly as well. Sometimes in Concacaf we get games where the referee calls nothing, but everyone knows what the line is. Occasionally we get games where they call everything. Tonight, it was difficult to discern where that line was, because it felt like Barton was missing a lot. That's just my opinion.

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    2. Unfortunately, too many CONCACAF referee's (Barton included) still operate under the "even things out" philosophy. If they "gift" something to one team, they feel obliged to "even things out" by "gifting" something to the other team.

      The 1st PK was soft if not outright wrong (Seattle player plays the ball first). Add to this that he decided that the kick had to be retaken. So there was no chance in h3!! that Barton was going to overrule himself and call the clear push prior to the 2nd PK (which was correctly spotted).

      In regards to the 3rd PK. Barton took a while to decide at the monitor. Not because he was unsure. But because there wasn't a clear and conclusive camera angle that left zero doubt. The best angle was a wide angle view where it wasn't clear if contact was actually made. I'll add to this, that the Sounders player doesn't become theatrical about the supposed contact until he sees that his attempted cross went out of play. The player (Roldan) was a thorn in Barton's side all game long. Constantly dissenting by word or action, mobbing Barton, and play acting in order to bait Barton into calling a foul.

      But I am not surprised by all the dissent and mobbing that occurred throughout the entire match. As Barton lacks authority on the pitch. His diminutive size also doesn't command respect from the players. At times Barton chose to literally run away from conflict instead of facing it and dealing out the proper and much needed warnings and/or cautions to nip the problem early. The few times he actually tried to be strong vocally he ended up looking infantile and whinny.

      But the level of dissent that these referee's are "FORCED" to tolerate is a whole another conversation in itself. Ref Comm's can't ask/demand that their referee's be respected by all. When the Ref Comm's handcuff their referee's by not allowing them to deal with dissent according to the LoTG by showing cards and regaining their authority/respect. The "players first" approach is misdirected and causes more harm than good to the image of the game.

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  37. Can I just say Marciniak’s ARs yesterday were phenomenal. Particularly AR2

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  39. I hope if the final is Liverpool vs City, Anthony Taylor will be the final referee, if the final is Real Madrid vs Villareal, the referee is Carlos de Cerro Grande, if the final is English vs Spainish team, the referee is Danny Makkelie or Bastian Dankert or non European referee

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