The predictions game continues with the second part of Quarterfinals.
You have to guess the exact referee for each game by filling in a form. Just insert your name, or, if you want, a nickname (it must be always the same for all your future predictions) and then for each game just select the referee.
Send your predictions here:
**
In order to give you more time to send predictions, we have decided to split some KO stage rounds, this is the second part of Quarterfinals, with games to be played on 10 December.
Appointments are expected on 8 December. When published, the predictions will be officially closed. The predictions sent after that (official time will be checked) will not be accepted.
Points will be assigned according to the following pattern:
10 points for having guessed the exact referee of a match
5 points if a guessed referee for a game will be appointed as fourth official
3 points if the appointed referee is from the same confederation as the guessed referee
2 points if the guessed referee is in charge of the paired match for the next round*
1 point if a referee is appointed for the same stage
* =
QF: Al Bayt (10th Dec) paired with Al Thumama (10th Dec) -> Winners facing each other in SF
QF: Lusail (9th Dec) paired with Education City (9th Dec) -> Winners facing each other in SF
A special thank to Philipp, who once again is here to help us and he will be responsible for collecting your predictions.
The modules for next rounds will follow in due course.
NED vs ARG Elfah(Usa)
ReplyDeleteBRA vs CRO lahoz (esp)
Mor vs Por Oliver (Eng)
Eng vs Fra Orsato (Ita)
can't see an English ref getting MAR-POR as it decides England's next opponents. Hope I am wrong!
DeleteMy full predictions
ReplyDeleteCRO-BRA: Gomes, Siwela (both RSA), Phatsoane (LES), Barton (SLV) - Fischer (CAN), Villareal (USA), Beecham (AUS), Gallo (COL)
NED-ARG: Mateu, Cebrian, Diaz Perez (all ESP), Ghorbal (ALG) - Hernandez (ESP), Kwiatkowski (POL), Taran (URU), Millot (FRA)
MAR-POR: Mohammed, Al-Hammadi, Al-Mahri (all UAE), Tello (ARG) - Gallo (COL), Bascunan (CHI), Brailovsky, Vigliano (both ARG)
FRA-ENG: Orsato, Carbone, Giallatini (all ITA), Elfath (USA) - Irrati, Valeri (both ITA), Sokolnicki (POL), Fritz (GER)
Update
DeleteMAR-POR: Mohammed, Al-Hammadi, Al-Mahri (all UAE), Sampaio (BRA) - Gallo (COL), Bascunan (CHI), Carbone, Valeri (both ITA)
FRA-ENG: Tello, Brailovsky, Chade (all ARG), Makkelie (NED) - Vigliano (ARG), Guerrero (MEX), Back (BRA), de Burgos (ESP)
NED-ARG: Elfath/Ghorbal (Fischer)
ReplyDeleteCRO-BRA: Oliver/Frappart (Dankert)
ENG-FRA: Lahoz/Makkelie (Martinez M)
MAR-POR: Sampaio/Valenzuela (Gallo)
CRO-BRA: Ramos
ReplyDeleteNED-ARG: Lahoz
ENG-FRA: Makkelie
MAR-POR: Marciniak
Impossible for Ramos to referee Brazil's game. Brazilians would go nuts!
DeleteCRO-BRA: Gomes
ReplyDeleteNED-ARG: Faghani
FRA-ENG: Makkelie
MOR-POR: Sampaio
Unfortunately, Faghani is out. Btw, I didn't realize that his VAR (Al-Marri) is only 29 :o
DeleteIs it confirmed that he's out?
DeleteNow, imo we have two main candidates for final: Orsato and Lahoz. Turpin? France in final. If France will be out, and we will see French in final its will be a unacceptable.
ReplyDeleteMy predictions:
QFs: Lahoz, Orsato, Gomes, Mohamed
SFs: Marciniak, Valenzuela/Elfath
F: Orsato/Lahoz
Btw. AFC had a many opportunities to have a WC final referee - Nishimura, Irmatov, Faghani, and still only one confederation without final. Why?
Nishimura and Irmatov were good but left doubts if they were good enough for a heated final. Faghani had an empty net and put the ball over the crossbar.
DeleteNo Taylor or Oliver?
DeleteThe referees you lost could have had chances in 2014, 2018, and 2022 respectively, but they all fell at the final hurdle.
DeleteOf course Nishimura and Itmatov could have had a chance in 2010, but let’s be honest it was always going to be Webb. The only question mark remaining is 2018; IMO it should have gone to Faghani over Pitana.
Well Morocco messes with plans...
ReplyDeleteNED-ARG: Ramos
CRO-BRA: Ghorbal (by politics and saving Elfath but I am tempted to switch back to Elfath and Ramos both in)
ENG-FRA: Makkelie
MAR-POR: Sampaio (surely a neutral here, but does Sampaio's language go against him? Ramos could but then problems on the other side unless two CONCACAF)
Elfath's path is now less clear. Eliminated from 1 semi-final for sure. No final with Portugal in it or Morocco to a semi. And then same issue for 3rd place. I don't think he's the right style for BRA-ARG, but that could help him as it necessitates using another contender.
Orsato either a semi or final. Lahoz seems a good fit for BRA-ARG but if a European does the final, it could be Spain's turn before Italy.
Marciniak seems like the next name without team trouble. South America would normally get a SF before Europe gets the 3 big games, but a BRA-ARG SF makes it impossible and Valenzuela seems too far back.
Faghani must be kicking himself for following the VAR now.
Al-Jassim for the 3rd place makes sense with Frappart maybe still in play if England shocks.
Another option if no Ghorbal, Ramos could take Brazil and Argentina gets their Champions League referee.
Delete@Anon, Sampaio's language not a problem by any means.
DeleteAre you aware Rapallini just officiated Spain and Turpin handled Senegal's game against Ecuador? Sampaio cannot be discriminated against based on this factor. Committee has set a precedent.
Btw, he's been the best ref so far and it goes without saying that MOR-POR will be quited heated. Perhaps, the two most difficult teams to handle right now, meaning the Brazilian is a perfect match.
Potential BRA-ARG would be for Orsato, Taylor or Gomes, I think.
DeletePortugal-Brazil seems a bit closer though
DeleteJuan, based on your judgement, Rapallini would have never had Spain- Morocco. Was there any problem here? Don't think so.
DeleteTurpin would have never had a decisive Senegal (French-speaking nation) vs Ecuador. Was there any problem here? Don't think so.
For the sake of coherence, no problem with Sampaio for MOR-POR.
NED x ARG Taylor
ReplyDeleteBRA x CRO Makkelie
Mor x Por Marciniak
Eng x Fra Orsato
This is the WC, not UEFA Euro Championship.
DeleteWhat do you guys think about the neutrality principle?
ReplyDeleteOnly 1 UEFA ref in QFs? It is what it is and it's perfectly fine, but maybe European lobbying will lead to Collina assigning 2 UEFA officials for last 8.
I think Gomes is "almost" mandatory, based on merit and also to please CAF ahead of FIFA's presidential election in Rwanda come March - Infantino is sole candidate but number of votes will determine his legitimacy.
Mohammed and Al-Jassim also deserved an appointment but they are not bigwigs.
I believe that the fact only 2 UEFA refs got appointed with 4 possibilities within the neutrality hints that the confederation rule will drop for the Last 8 and further.
DeleteIt seems too unlikely that UEFA will only receive 3-5 knock-out appointments when they have been the by far most consistent so far.
I reckon the Last 16 games were planned to please CONMEBOL and CONCACAF with 3 games each. AFC only really had Faghani who sadly blundered his huge chances. I guess their is a small possibility for a Mohammed appointement but I dont really see it with now classical easy game.
CAF missing is indeed a little curious as both Gomes and Ghorbal have been at least decent, thats why I guess Gomes (the more consistent one) will get the 3rd Place game.
NED-ARG Lahoz
BRA-CRO Ramos
FRA-ENG Orsato
POR-MOR Sampaio
Semi 1 (BRA-ARG) Lahoz
Semi 2 FRA/ENG-POR) Marciniak
3rd Place Gomes
Final Orsato
Lahoz in NED-ARG, followed by an appearance in the semifinal involving the winner of NED-ARG is definitely impossible.
DeleteUEFA has little claim to break neutrality just so they get more spots. They already have enough advantages and the other confederations won't be sympathetic.
DeleteMorocco surely gets a neutral. Argentina is the most likely given their usual vetoes to get Champions League referees. Brazil likely favors a neutral unless they really dislike the options (and very doubtful they really dislike Elfath). There is no Collina in this tournament who everyone wants no matter what.
Brazil really dislike Ramos - previous issues. In a group stage match in 2018 (Russia), Brazil were 1-0 up and Switzerland equalised by Zuber, who pushed Miranda before scoring. Brazil's FA even sent a letter to FIFA criticising Ramos and asking why VAR had not been used.
DeleteRamos in CRO-BRA would definitely stir up trouble.
Would be the same as appointing Makkelie for a Portugal game (controversy in Serbia), Brych for a Serbia game (WC 2018), Oliver for a Juventus game (UCL QF match in Madrid in 2018). I don't think Collina wants turmoil from any FA, much less the Brazilian one.
As for Makkelie, I think he should appear in QFs given the Netherlands could make it to the SFs.
What's the issue with Lahoz in NED-ARG? Seems a good fit for him.
Stockholm, one thing is to appoint Lahoz for NED-ARG, another thing is to appoint Lahoz for a potential BRA-ARG. The latter is impossible. BRA-ARG is arguably the hottest game in world football. Would it have a referee who speaks one of the languages of those nations? By the same token, a Portuguese ref in a potential BRA-ARG would not go down very well with Argentines.
Delete@David Hatfield, I see your points for sure. Can only really agree to one tho. The Lahoz latter (allthough I think the games would suit him the best) looks highly unlikely indeed.
DeleteRamos for BRA-CRO may be a little controversial but also not more (cant compare to Brych with Serbia e.g.). And together with a simple lack of options I think it could be him. Elfath already had 3 matches considering he had one really poor game. Sampaio surely deserves another but is forced to the other half of the table. Unless some wild assignment of an unexpected UEFA ref happens I only see Mohammed and he did not convince me enough to get a quarter-final.
Makkelie made a quite strange error and by now has a history of soft-penalties (EURO semi). I dont really see him being appointed at all.
Not sure if it possible to get the 2 most important matches of a tournament but maybe Orsato an option for both the final and a possible BRA-ARG
Lahoz for the other semi-final POR-FRA/ENG
Marciniak FRA-ENG quarter
?
Ramos for BRA-CRO would be the same as Brych for a game involving Serbia. Brazil's FA lodged a formal complaint with FIFA back then over a decision that impacted on the outcome of the game. It's not a "little controversial", it's highly controversial, and, so, totally avoidable, not to mention Ramos has already been given 3 games and there are other options for BRA-CRO - Gomes (officiated Africa Cup of Nations final and CAF Champions League final this year), Mohamed (officiated the Intercontinental playoff game between Costa Rica and New Zealand). Both have had convincing displays so far, esp Gomes who's a notch above in light of his experience.
DeleteFRA-ENG for Makkelie seems reasonable, considering NED have a chance of making SFs. I'd save Orsato for a possible blockbuster SF between BRA and ARG.
Just a consideration about confederations rule, it would be strange if at the end of this WC we will have only one game without it, in that case I think FIFA would have made different appointment for Poland - Argentina. So I think in quarterfinals we could see something like that again. Maybe starting from NED - ARG...
ReplyDeleteFrappart in GER-CRC.
DeleteThis was something extra-ordinary, can't be considered normal appointment.
DeleteHow so? It was a high-pressure, absolutely decisive game between a Central American country and a European one. A European ref was appointed, which means that, factually, FIFA broke the neutrality principle.
DeleteFIFA was dead set on making that appointment no matter what and ran out of options. Poland-Argentina could just be the distraction so it wasn't another rule they broke just for her.
Delete+1 Anon
DeleteThat England-France game catches the eye. On paper, it has Makkelie all over it, however his nation still in the competition holds him off.
ReplyDeleteBtw I think, this is a stupid 'unwritten rule' as the chances of Netherlands winning against both Argentina and Brazil are 0,01% (Sorry Dutch folks).
ENG-FRA needs a strong, experienced head with more than excellent fitness, as this game is expected to flow up and down quickly with two fair playing teams. And to add, it may take longer than 90 minutes. Mateu and Orsato always stay a bit more centered and don't have the required fitness? Vincic' fitness is great, but I doubt he has the authority for a high profile top game like this (his deficiencies were visible in Inter-Barca). Whose left? Marciniak? His fitness is better than Orsato/Mateu, but not as great as Vincic/Makkelie.
In addition, if Marciniak works until the end and Makkelie+Taylor are to be send home without a knock-out game, we may pencil the English or the Dutch for the Champions League final 2023 as 'compensation' for a dissapointing World Cup, depending on the presence of English teams.
My choice is Lahoz. The fitness is just a pretext imo.
DeleteThe management of Mateu Lahoz by UEFA has been quite particular the last two years, or so. He didn't officiate that many high speed games that go up-and-down, did he? Rather the challenging foul games or one-way traffic games. I suppose, one of the reasons could be fitness.
DeleteSame for Orsato, there is a reason why he got Qatar-Ecuador and Argentina-Mexico: two of the highest-foul games this world cup, that needed a strong ref that doesn't hesitate to show his cards. Also games that were often dead, because of the high amount of fouls. Orsato is never the best choice for games where you can expect high paced football and fast breaks. My prediction is Marciniak, however Makkelie would have been perfect.
Makkelie is the perfect fit, it might be his last game in the tournament as the NED do have a chance of making it to the SFs.
Delete"the chances of Netherlands winning against both Argentina and Brazil are 0,01% (Sorry Dutch folks).". Not true.
Argentina managed to scrape along against Australia, but they could have conceded the equaliser in the final minute.
Yes, NED can definitely create difficulties for ARG, but I don't see NED win against BRA. In other words, the Orange in the final is a bridge too far imo. Therefore, I wouldn't mind seeing a Dutch ref in the lower bracket (QF) despite his nation in the upper. But history tells us that FIFA don't make exceptions that often. Just for CONMEBOL... ;)
Deletehttps://twitter.com/ArbitroInteBlog/status/1600445227797340160
ReplyDeleteToday it is decided
What are you thinking about Faghani? Is it possible to take the final of the WC?
ReplyDeleteHe ended his world cup when he gave Portugal that PK.
DeleteNED vs ARG-. Faghani
ReplyDeleteENG vs FRA.- Makkelie
CRO vs BRA.-. Gomes
MAR vs POR-. Sampaio/Barton
CRO-BRA: ENG Oliver
ReplyDeleteNED-ARG: ITA Orsato
MOR-POR: IRN Faghani
ENG-FRA: ESP Mateu Lahoz
According to this link, Faghani WC seems to be over.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.khabarvarzeshi.com/amp/389847/
Not unexpected
DeleteAlireza Faghani confirm on Instagram
DeleteTake it with the benefit of the doubt, of course I can't give you confirmation that what is reported is 100% true.
ReplyDeletehttps://refereeingworld.blogspot.com/2022/12/fifa-world-cup-2022-referees-first.html
Fritz is out and Dankert stay. I can not understand
Delete20 referees for 8 matches.
DeleteSeveral of them will not return to the field, but FIFA recognizes their merits for being on this list. Not everyone deserves it.
Some of those names released I thought did OK
ReplyDeleteEither didn't do well or less experienced
DeleteFrance in the final - Frappart will get a match for 3-4 places
ReplyDeleteFrance not in the final - Frappart will get a final.
Maybe it sounds stupid, but it's my feeling. And I really want to be wrong...
Honestly wouldn't be surprised. If she's still there any is possible for PR.
DeleteI was wondering, but the current and last WC such a great opportunity to reward Germany with good appointments. And what a pity that 4 years ago we all know what happened to Felix Brych and we now Siebert was never considered for anything big on this tournament. If Brych would be still active I think he could have had the chance now to reach something big...
ReplyDeleteBy the way I find it very interesting that most of the people expect Oliver to get appointments. I think his big chance will come in the USA, and now in case of an English official appointed, it must be Taylor and Oliver will be the 4th official to him. As most probably this is also Taylor's (first and) last WC, while Oliver has still plenty of time. And looking at the standard of English referees, he does not have to really fear that someone would compete with him for the next WC spot from England. (Also both officials did well, so no reason to exclude Taylor.)
I had similar thoughts regarding Oliver and Taylor. But I am not sure, whether this actually is a valid argument. You could also say, that giving Oliver a big match in 2022 prepares him even better for the 2026 tournament.
DeleteSo in the end, performance and experience resp. who is more suitable for the game should be more decisive, I think.
Totally agree, it will be very interesting to see who they will go for. We cannot totally exclude that both officials get an appointment, but with 8 games left, it's hard to imagine.
DeleteWeird management still, because instead of Turpin or Ramos they could use one of them in the last round.
Based on their WC performance i think nearly impossible to draw a line as both of them did very well in their games. The Croatia-Belgium game for Taylor indicates for me a bit of more trust in him for big occasions and also Taylor is more experienced with big games in CL.
I am already a bit sorry for some referees who performed well, but for sure we will not see them in the middle of the pitch. Especially UEFA referees, as only Turpin had 3 games so far and we can expect maximum 4 games to be assigned to UEFA referees from the remaining 8 games. Based on this WC performance I would go for Orsato, Lahoz, Taylor and Marciniak. However hard to imagine that Makkelie will not be used more. So already very complicated to satisfy everybody.
Sidenote: I somehow feel like as an outsider we can see Barton in a SF. (Just remember Irmatov and Kassai in 2010)
Faghani confirmed on his Instagram that he is out! So sad for him, but reasonable decision after his mistake :(
ReplyDeleteSo guys, Siebert is really N1 of Germany? And it's better than Zwayer? Hum....
ReplyDeleteBasically FIFA is letting everyone know who they think screwed up. Everyone else stay on.
ReplyDeleteSome clearly made mistakes; others were simply not as good as those remaining; others are simply less experienced at the highest levels
DeleteAnd I’m sure everyone who stayed is super excellent and did amazingly. Sure.
Delete@Ref observer in Brazil; Yes, pretty much. This is what we should understood from this "selection". Apart from those who were just 4th officials - we should expect them in focus for 2026.
DeleteBut in many cases, the referees sent home are also those with the least experience / the lowest standing before the tournament.
DeleteI think, this is clearly the case for UEFA and CONMEBOL, maybe for CONCACAF (Barton vs Escobar is tight) and regarding pre-tournament standing also for CAF.
What I am trying to say: If all referees had performed equally during the tournament, the selection for this cut would have been quite similar.
Philipp, about last sentence. Yes, agree. Almost, with sa few exceptions. Oliver is surely under Vincic regarding experience. Frappart is particular case, no need to say more. Escobar vs Barton is tight indeed. Also, Velenzuela remains. He is one of the big surprises this tournament I guess. It is the only one that really didn't matched Mikael's prediction in his pre-WC presentation. But the interesting part is AFC. They kept Al-Jassim on the list. So they liked his performance? I doubt as he got only 1 game. Political? Probably. However he is a young referee, 35. For me, here is the biggest question mark. What is really his situation?
DeleteAl-Jassim staying on the list is political choice: It is "substitute" for Faghani, I don't expect he will get another game, but I will be not suprised if he see him like the fourth official in the final or at least semifinal. Anyway, his performance in USA-Wales was solid in my opinion.
DeleteExactly this is my scenario. But how is possible that (almost) everyone on the blog have assessed his performance as (very) good, but FIFA not?
DeleteFIFA points of view are strange sometimes: In some cases FIFA has a different opinion than lots of people on this blog: for example they had no problem with Elfath's first performance and most of the discussants there had a problem (not me, I only think the penalty for Portugal was too soft, but the rest of the game was ok in my opinion.)
DeleteFinally (I would say) some readers start to recognize that this blog does not display ‘the holy truth’, and that FIFA most probably has different opinions on certain referee decisions and referee performances than (the majority) of blog readers.
DeleteI think the third place match will go to Frappart with Back and Nesbitt as assistants, hoping France won't be there
ReplyDeleteStill, impossible to make more particular predictions. FIFA didn't give us any clue with this selection, taking apart Faghani case (but this was expected as well). Too many names for getting a few games, and we don't know how they will act. Just one thing we can say: given that there are still referees from the teams in the tournaments, we can expect some of them to get next assignments in quarterfinals, before they can't get games anymore.
ReplyDeleteSince Faghani is out, are we allowed to
ReplyDeletechange predictions?
Hahahaha. Sorry, I find this really funny. Isn't making predictions to these things at least 50% about understanding who needed to be released?
DeleteWhat apity faghani?
ReplyDeleteFaghani? Sad, but expected.
ReplyDeleteFaghani - biggest name on this WC - one crucial mistake -> go home
Makkelie - big UEFA name - mistake, -> stay, because big name
Escobar - biggest CONCACAF name -> very poor first match -> go home
Elfath - big CONCACAF name - very poor first performance -> second chance -> very good matches
Beath - big AFC name -> very poor first performance -> go home
I don't understand this comparison. In part of cases we have principle "big name", and on the other hand we have "performance principle" rule. Elfath or Makkelie have a second chance, but Escobar (imo biggest name in CONCACAF) or Beath not.
I hope that "performance principle" will win, and we will see Orsato/Lahoz/Marciniak in final, not Makkelie or Turpin....
Hold on, you think Escobar was the "biggest CONCACAF name?" Wow. I don't even know how to take that seriously. There's no way you watch CONCACAF regularly. Just on performance, he was/is clearly last (worse than Martinez). And then on politics, Ramos is over him due to nationality and previous performance. And Elfath--whatever you think of him--did the U20 WC Final and clearly is the type of referee FIFA likes. The idea that Escobar should have even had a match over Martinez is HIGHLY debatable to me and I personally feel strongly in the other direction. But at least it's debatable.
Delete"Biggest name from CONCACAF?" C'mon. It's like saying Siebert or Kovacs is the biggest name from UEFA.
Was Beath's performance so bad? I didn't watch the match and I thought that the problem was mainly about the penalty OFR (very light). In my view, if it is about the penalty, Makkelie's one was much lighter, if not a penalty at all. To be honest, although I see the differences between Faghani's and Makkelies's mistakes, also in terms of how they impacted the ouctome of the WC for Uruguay, I would have either sent them both home or none of them.
DeleteMaybe, just maybe, FIFA has a different opinion on Makkelie’s penalty decision than you… Just like maybe, just maybe, they valued Elfath’s performance in a different way than you guys ;)
DeleteOr maybe it has to do with politics like everything else. C'mon we are not stupid.
Delete@usaref
DeleteI really like Elfath and his style, but his first match was really poor. Luckily, he get a second chance and he showed that he is a very good referee.
I don't watch CONCACAF matches. My ideas were based on comments and analysis - maybe one of the reason this statement is fact, that Elfath represents USA, and he can't be in a middle in finals because USA club or representation.
@gabri.filo
Beath also was really poor in first. Apart from penalty, he had a problem with foul detections and his lenient style wasn't suitable for hot match with mexican players, also a problems with card management and control match. And in this case he didn't get a second chance.
The biggest advantage for Makkelie is fact that his mistake (if is) was a favour to big team, addly PK was saved by goalkeaper. But for me, a Dutch like Faghani, should be in home. I don't like double standards.
If Turpin gets final will frappart be appointed fourth official for final to
ReplyDeleteQf appointments when fifa will publish?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe referees that will now take over at this stage onwards include Oliver, Taylor, Makellie, Lahoz, Turpin, Orsato, Ramos, vincic,
ReplyDeleteI’ll take Marciniak for ENG-FRA and one of the Brazilians for MAR-POR. I’m guessing Sampaio, but I hope I’m wrong and Claus gets his game.
ReplyDeletePredictions - QF II:
ReplyDeleteMOR-POR: Sampaio (BRA)
FRA-ENG: Marciniak (POL)