The predictions game continues with the first semifinal to be guessed.
You have to guess the exact referee for each game by filling in a form. Just insert your name, or, if you want, a nickname (it must be always the same for all your future predictions) and then for each game just select the referee.
Send your predictions here:
**
In order to give you more time to send predictions, we have decided to split some KO stage rounds, this is the first Semifinal, to be played on 13 December.
Appointments are expected on 11 December. When published, the predictions will be officially closed. The predictions sent after that (official time will be checked) will not be accepted.
Points will be assigned according to the following pattern:
10 points for having guessed the exact referee of a match
5 points if a guessed referee for a game will be appointed as fourth official
3 points if the appointed referee is from the same confederation as the guessed referee
2 points if the guessed referee is in charge of the other game in the round
Starting from semifinals we have also decided to introduce the predictions about VA, according to following scheme:
10 points for having guessed the exact VAR
5 points if the guessed
VAR takes another role in the VOR
3 points for correct confederation
2
points for VAR at the paired match
A special thank to Philipp, who once again is here to help us and he will be responsible for collecting your predictions.
The modules for next rounds will follow in due course.
To understand which game of the two could get Orsato. Now Makkelie can be back again after Netherlands elimination. I think two UEFA for semifinals are possible and I would bet on them. About Marciniak, he got a round of 16 as second game, and this makes his situation different from the other two. About Taylor, with Oliver assignment one could easily think that the English choice has been already made.. that's my reasoning, but in this WC it seems definitely meaningless :) we will see.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure about Orsato? Faghani, Lahoz are out of the final, Elfath with his famous 1st match, Turpin very unlikely with France still in contention. Who is still able to handle the final? Ramos, Makkelie, Marciniak, Barton, Oliver, Sampaio? One name can easily be found, but THE name. Orsato clearly the best of this wc.
DeleteFap: If Orsato will get the final, he will be probably the first referee in history with no match in KO stage before the final.
DeleteCandidates are probably Turpin, Elfath, Ramos, Oliver. I guess Makkelie will be only fourth official in one of the last games (hard to imagine he will get Argentina after Argentina-Netherlands and also hard to imagine he will get Portugal after his Portugal-Serbia match, so his only chance to handle the semifinal is if Morocco knocks out Portugal).
There was Belqola in 1998
DeleteAdmir Mikael: True, it is the only exception in long decades.
DeleteYep, Morocco being compensated or simply Belqola is good or even 1998 is time for CAF referee to officiate the final I don't know. Maybe, any reason why Belqola got 1998 final?
DeleteAt least there are "precedents" if Orsato is appointed for the final. 1) opening + final same referee (2006, 2018), 2) straight final (1998)
@Chefren We know that very likely Argentina wants only UEFA referees. They got Vincic, Orsato, Makkelie (conf break vs Poland), Marciniak and Mateu (conf break vs Netherlands) so far.
DeleteOrsato and Marciniak are pretty sure for SFs.
But what about a final involving Argentina?
In case of France getting eliminated tonight, in my opinion it will be 100% Turpin.
But if France will get to the final I don't know who else from UEFA could be appointed...
Elfath for a final France - Argentina...
DeleteIf NEDARG today was a revenge for history and WC2014, a CROARG will be another revenge for WC2018. In Russia, Irmatov had a many problems with control in very passionate match.
ReplyDeleteSemi ORSATO&ELFATH
ReplyDeleteFinal MARCINIAK
For me, definitely the names are Orsato and Marciniak. The question is, when they take the decision. The, let`s call them expected semifinals, were Brazil-Argentina and France-Portugal. Case in which I`d go with Orsato for the South American clash and Marciniak for the latter. Now, Argentina-Croatia looks perfectly suitable for Marciniak, and the other semifinal (I expect Portugal) and either of England and France might need more Orsato. So this is it, I have to try to understand when they take the decision, and if they already took it, if something is gonna change. Or, you know, send Elfath to this semi, keep orsato for the big final and 'au revoir'. Makkelie out for me, if he gets a game and Marciniak not, not fair the the latter.
ReplyDeleteI can easily see Marciniak blundering across the board (hope not!), just like Mateu did tonight. My concern about the Pole is that he's a "pro-establishment" ref, just too afraid to take brave decisions against elite national teams. That has been a clear pattern in Champions League, for instance. He seems unable to break free of that approach.
DeleteA really bad mistake from a UEFA referee in a WC SF or final will be unmanageable for Collina after Mateu's lame job in NED-ARG, taking into account the Committee's pro-UEFA bias.
If ARG lose to CRO, I don't see anyone other than Claus in the final. He's used to having tough clashes in Brazil and at Libertadores, has a big presence on the pitch for conflict management and natural authority. Looks like a safe pair of hands for a final without ARG.
ARG-CRO, to me, has Orsato written all over it. CRO will cause ARG lots of problems, that's for sure, Argentines will ultimately lose their cool (as always - Messi has already chastised Mateu) and that might get seriously out of control. It needs Orsato by all means, in my view.
The other SF would go for Gomes/Mohammed, who have proven to be competent match officials. Plus, their geography plays in favour of this option. They don't have any past issues regarding any of the teams involved. To cap it off, nobody can accuse Collina of being biased against non-UEFA refs, esp. in the context of Mateu's wipeout tonight.
A key takeway from this WC is that UEFA refs, after all, may not be as reliable as some appointments make them out to be.
Oh, and by the way, I don`t understand this fancy predictions with Marciniak in final, as he hasn`t whistle not a UCL, but not even a UEL final. He might be the referee in the best form in Europe, I would trust him with any game, but things have to be taken step by step.
ReplyDeletematei14: I don't think it is a facet to whistle UEL or UCL final fot the WC final nomination. I guess Marciniak won't be in the final for another reason: It would be very untypically to handle only two games before the final. If I remeber well, all WC final referees had at least 3 matches during the previous tournaments.
DeleteCan't recall so many parameters and possibilities in terms of the final ref. No chance for lahoz after tonight. Marciniak and Orsato obvious choices probably but both are possibilities in the semi final.
ReplyDeleteElfath maybe unlikely to get a semi after a quarter and won't get one if morocco go through.
If England go out I could honestly see Oliver in with a shout - I think he's been excellent, though not truly tested. And Taylor too maybe for a semi if England go out.
We shall see!
For me, Orsato is 100% safe choice for the final! There are A LOT OF reasons for that! His passport means a lot, don't tell me that's not the case, but also he performed well. No matter that he got opening match! Because of that he was saved from elimination matches and is preparing for the final. One of the refs for the semis is Marciniak, and the other can be some surprise! Makkelie is out for sure, personally I don't like him and his attitude. 3rd place match is for Barton or Mohammad.
ReplyDeleteSo, who would you appoint for such a hot clash like CRO-ARG? I don't see anyone other than Orsato, tbh.
DeleteI could even imagine a surprise here: Barton is not always following the lenient Concacaf-Style, he holds records wuth YCs and RCs and is definitely able to adjust his style dep. on the character of the match. And Ramos nearly always acts in an at least solid way, never losing control, too. So, though I would still "vote" for Orsato, I dont think we see 2 european refs in the SFs. That would even contradict the idea of supporting CONCACAF, AFC and CAF. But well, in this tournament, we can expect simply everything...
DeleteMakkiele is one of the best 5 referees in the world now
ReplyDeleteHe had that dubious penalty awarded to ARG.
DeleteSemi finals : orsato and marciniak / final : makkiele
ReplyDeleteIs it impossible for Claus to get the 3rd place match?
ReplyDelete@Mitidieri: Of course it is possible, just not sure how high is the chance. There are lots of candidates for this match, maybe more than for the final.
DeleteHe should have the final in case ARG lose to CRO
DeleteClaus may be given the championship match in case ARG lose to Croatia in Sfs.
DeleteKuipers in Porto-Juventus vs Lahoz in Argentina-Netherlands, which one is more difficult to manage? IMO Kuipers was much better in game control. Lahoz was excellent in the first half, but he threw it away.
ReplyDeleteI am not a referee but an avid reader of this blog for a number of years.
ReplyDeleteI think at times we forget to think of these matches from a footballing perspective rather than just a refereeing perspective. We seem to sometimes fall into the trap of focusing on the KMI's more than how the game flowed and how it was viewed by the media. Which I think FIFA care about alot. the fact that we have only had 2 red cards in play is astounding (other 2 after full time)
This is why I think it was impossible for Al-Jassim to get a second match because even though technically he refereed the match well getting all KMI's correct he came across too aggressive at times and I felt was at risk of losing control at times.
I think this is the trap people fell into in the first half saying lahoz had been exceptional. Though he had gotten all the KMI's correct it did not look good for the game as a whole for the referee booking people on the bench within the first 20 mins.
I also think this is Elfath,Makkelie and Taylor have been kept on while Faghani and Siebert got sent home
Elfath had a shaky first game with a dubious penalty at best but it wasn't mentioned much after in the news(of what I saw).
Makkelie gave a penalty many on this blog thought was wrong but could be supported especially if you consider lahoz gave a very similar penalty against France in the euros.
Taylor blew for full time at a corner which is technically right after 10 mins added time but for the image of the game to blow up before south Korea get to take a corner is wrong.
All 3 got a second game and controlled there games well but Elfath really excelled. That is why he got his 3rd while the other two did not do aswell. Quite frankly I would be very surprised to see either of them in a match other than as fourth official from now on.
Faghani made a blatant mistake after consulting the VAR which for FIFA who are so worried about their image is inexcusable. Siebert made the wrong decision on the last penalty appeal imo but was chased down the tunnel by the Uruguay team which I feel FIFA also saw as inexcusable.
Personally I think this could be alot behind the selection for matches in this tournament it's all about image
I think we might be in for some surprises in terms of how the appointments play out – some of the "rules" (eg. getting a final without any knockout stage match) are going to have to be bent depending on which teams make it through.
ReplyDeleteA lot depends on Saturday's results, but a France win would put FIFA in the most trouble IMO, because that knocks Turpin out. Turpin looks like the pre-ordained final referee at the moment, but if France wins, I can definitely see FIFA looking at NED-ARG today, dropping all plans and putting Orsato right in the final without a previous knockout game. He's a safe name, the only one they don't have to worry about in terms of permutations, certain teams not liking him, etc.
Argentina in the final means you can't have a Brazilian, you can't have Makkelie after today, you probably can't have Taylor/Oliver, depending on France and Morocco's progress you potentially can't have Turpin and/or Elfath. Who does that leave? I don't see any other options than Marciniak and Orsato, and of the two I have a very hard time thinking Marciniak is ahead in that race.
CRO-ARG will surely be Orsato or Marciniak, there are virtually no other options. The other game will depend on who wins ENG-FRA. Given the surprising second set of QF appointments, I would not be surprised to see someone completely out of left field for the second SF if France wins (potentially Valenzuela).
Valenzuela for sure not, his line of foul detection is not consistent and thats why he often lacks authority and acceptance, like Rapallini in his last match. But why dont you write about the 3 remaining Concacaf refs? I am sure they have chances.
DeleteDanny makkiele for the final and orsato and marciniak for semi finals
ReplyDeleteAwarding a dubious penalty to ARG gets Makkelie in the championship match?
DeleteWhat you mean David ?
DeleteCollina will feel the heat about his pro-UEFA bias. Ruling out a good CAF ref like Mohammed and an excellent, tried-and-tested CAF ref like Gomes is a big mistake. Just look at what Mateu did tonight.
ReplyDeleteAnother blunder from a UEFA ref in SFs or final might get FIFA ref committee in hot water from the standpoint of some confederations, which is not what Infantino wants to happen at all.
We'll see.
Collina will feel the heat about his *perceived* pro-UEFA bias. Ruling out a good AFC ref like Mohammed and an excellent, tried-and-tested CAF ref like Gomes is a big mistake. Just look at what Mateu did tonight.
ReplyDeleteAnother blunder from a UEFA ref in SFs or final might get FIFA ref committee in hot water from the standpoint of some confederations, which is not what Infantino wants to happen at all.
We'll see.
Any special reason to censor this comment twice?
Gomes didn't perform well enough in his two games to warrant another, honestly. I say that as someone that quite liked his style.
DeleteThat is just a vague, empty comment. In what aspect did he underperform? No major issues, excellent control, best fitness of the tournament by a mile. Maybe you should review his performances. Gomes is, in my view, in the top 5 of this WC.
DeletePlus, I insist, he's a tried-and-tested ref - AFCON final (brilliant job) and CAF Champions League final (brilliant job). Maybe you don't know that. He was my wild guess for the championship final ahead of the tournament. Definitely deserves, at least, a KO game. Best CAF ref in decades. Best CAF chance in decades for a WC final.
DeleteStill censoring? I don't get seriously. Is free speecj still allowed on this blog? In which aspect did Gomes underperform in his two games? Elaborate on that, please. No major issues whatsoever, excellent control, best fitness of the tournament by a mile.
DeleteGomes is simply the best CAF ref in decades and the best CAF chance for a WC final in decades.
DeleteWhy are you censoring this comment? Tell me please. Thank you.
(I am not an admit by the way, so I'm certainly not censoring anything).
DeleteGomes and his teams made a number of technical mistakes in both his games. The first game (which was quite easy), there was a clear missed yellow card that he didn't even catch the foul on. He also allowed play to briefly resume while one team had 12 players on the field. Ok, mistakes happen. His second game there were more technical mistakes: I recall two yellow cards just before halftime that were mostly and completely (respectively) phantom, and perhaps some other disciplinary mistakes, I can't recall in full detail. And on the VAR goal line decision, I don't believe he and his AR ever signaled a call on the field before VAR got involved.
I did not see him so negative. But there are 2 Africans still in the game, Ghorbal and Gomes could get the little final IMO to make the other confederations at least a littlebit happier...
DeleteAnd 2 UEFA refs plus 1 more in the final... : That is simply too much. I expect Claus having chances if Croatia beets Argentine - and Ramos, if not. Or we see Marciniak and Barton in the SFs with Orsato for the final. Difficult to predict...
The peoblem isn't about name of a referee but about the team involve, you saw yesterday a battle (it was predictable attitude from ARG, but no one expected NED to do the same) so MATEU tried to keep his control by showing too many cards but he failed.. But did the committe burned MATEU card....! Yes they did, it was impossible to any ref to control such game.
ReplyDeleteI think now the issue with become more difficult, Argentina need a law inforcer ref and have no tolerate with any bad behavior so I think that MARCINIAK is the SF ref and now the plan was keeping ORSATO for SF has been changed to keep him for final if ARG reach it.
If you see the records of YCs and RCs in the history of the World Cup, the Netherlands were nearly always involved there! So the heated game now was EXACTLY what could AND SHOULD be expected. I am sure the committee took Mateu for that reason, hoping his communication skills and his readiness for switching to a hard law enforcing line would match the heated game in a good way. That could have worked, the idea was a goodone. BUT yesterday Mateu did so many minor mistakes and suffered under a lack of concentration, that after the 1st half he had already lost the players acceptance. In the rest of the game complaints were getting more and more, and he made things even worse by distributing cards without any logical consistency, and finally whistling around like a steammachine, when AT LEAST 1 RC + 2nd YC - IMO even more were necessary to get back control. In the rest of the game Mateu was sadly a passenger, but not a leader on the pitch. For sure any ref would have had great trouble in that match, but I am nearly sure that this catastrophe could only happen cause there was no consistency, neither in the foul detection, nor in the punishments.
DeleteWhat can we learn from that match?
Work on your consistency, if this is missing, even a good image or body language or your communication skills will not help you to GAIN authority! Then: If you have to adapt your style from a leniant approach to being strict, tell the players BEFORE, uf things are very heated already, tell the captains: Guys, this is getting ugly now! Believe me, I will not allow you continuing that way. I will now sanction your fouls and dissents very strictly, IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE MATCH IN THE NEXT ROUND FROM OUTSIDE: OK, KEEP ON ACTING THAT WAY. And then FOLLOW THAT LINE, be CONSEQUENT, WHATEVER IT TAKES!!! Best wishes!
Totally agree, thanks for this analysis
DeleteGood analysis, indeed
DeleteThis is the easiest appointment of the entire tournament imo. There is only one man: Daniele Orsato. But since it's so obvious, it'll probably be someone else. If so, I would bet on Marciniak.
ReplyDeleteit's gotta be orsato or makkelie for final
ReplyDeleteOT:Interesting statement from De Jong;
ReplyDeletede Jong: "As soon as regular playing time was over, they went to him."
"From that moment on he only whistled for Argentina. It was just really outrageous."
"Mateu Lahoz is a nice guy, a good referee. But here he was beyond reason. I think he lost his way in overtime. It could well be that the greatness of Lionel Messi had an influence on that. It’s not the referee’s fault, but it did affect the game."
"I was convinced that we would win when we equalised, In any case, I was convinced that we would become world champions."
César Ramos apita a final do Mundial
ReplyDeleteI am seeing that they talked about the opportunities of Gomes and Ghorbal, someone said that Gomes was the No.1 African candidate for a WC final in decades, let's be serious, that will NEVER happen there is no way they will give him the final in this WC nor in another because he will retire at the end of the tournament, so let's stop saying these things nonsense and write with sense please
ReplyDeleteHe was one of the referees with the best performance in the tournament?...For me, no.
DeleteI see more possibilities in Ghorbal to achieve "big" things in 4 years (never make a WC final) and by "big" things I mean quarterfinals and nothing more.
It hurts to say it, but CAF will never be recognized at the FIFA level in WC
The only one I remember that if he was very good was Diedhiou (or whatever it is written) in WC18 getting BEL-JAP from the round of 16 and being fourth official in third place with Faghani
Gassama?
good but never grew
Sikazwe?
History known to all of us
Gomes?
He did nothing
N'Diaye?
We will see in WC2026
Amin Omar?
Good bet for WC2026
Jiyed?
I don't see it, honestly
Tessema?
Too bad... I hope it gets to 2026
And I can continue like this...CAF cannot dream of a WC final
Together with the Senegalese in 2018, Haimoudi in Brazil 2014 was good...
DeleteDoing the BRA-NED in third place but it doesn't advance, maybe you don't understand me, but the CAF very rarely brings out the "work" in a WC and in Qatar the work was very poor on everyone's part
In my humble opinion, Collina gave FRA-ENG to Sampaio because this was like "the final he could get". That's because Brazil was expected to get to SF. Now that surprisingly Brazil is out and Sampaio and Claus are available, Collina certainly regrets putting Sampaio in such a big game, for he would be a sure name for the F
ReplyDeleteWith Brazil and the Netherlands out, I believe the most likely to be:
ReplyDelete- CROx ARG: Elfath (USA)
- ENG/FRA x MAR/POR: Claus (BRA) or Marciniak (POL)
- 3rd place: Makkelie (NED) as a consolation award or maddame Frappart FRA (only if france is in the final) as a reaffirmation of women's participation in football.
- Final: Orsato (ITA) repeating what happened to Pitana in 2018 who was in charge of the opening match and the final. Promoting thus rotation between CONMEBOL and UEFA with the same criteria
Danny makkiele for the final
ReplyDeletediego I don’t agree with you about CAF referees Gomes performance in this tournament wasn’t a bad one to deserve a round of 16 game but let’s see if he would be given the third place
ReplyDeleteMakkiele for final that would be laughable
ReplyDeleteWhy laughable respect me edes makkiele now one of the best 3 referees in the world
ReplyDeleteI think the safe path for FIFA to get referees out of the headlines is now:
ReplyDeleteARG-CRO: Orsato
MAR-???: Claus/Sampaio (maybe even Valenzuela, Barton, or a CAF surprise to not have Brazil determine Argentina's future)
Final 1 Europe: Ramos (only possible option outside of UEFA so can't use below)
Final 0 or 2 Europe: Marciniak
Not the merit path but preserves neutrality and avoids who knocked out who which Portugal just made an issue.
Again, Faghani must be kicking himself.
For me the semi names are Orsato and Marciniak. Both must get a KO-stage game in terms of performances and experience. But to me it would be strange to appoint them directly to the final but of course not competely impossible, so a different name would be needed then for the semis (Elfath, Barton, Ramos?)
ReplyDeleteBut who for the final? Elfath possible but has he been good enough? Since it seems that FIFA supported his penalty for Ronaldo and due to his good management skills he could be appointed for the final.
Makkelie? He would be my guess. He is one of the best referees at the moment (if not the best) and his „wrong“ penalty was not „too wrong“, at least somehow supportable. And I would rather appoint an almost perfect referee with one „mistake“ than an okayish one without any wrong KMI‘s.
BTW if we only watch performances at this tournament then for me Barton should get it. But of course, he is only 31 and he will be a hot candidate for the next WC‘s. Definetly the race for the final is very open this year!
The race for final this year is really interesting. I have the feeling that this impression is caused a overall weakeness of referees... Apart from Orsato and Marciniak we haven't a big amount a top referees.
ReplyDeleteIn previous editions we had excellent Pitana (18, 14), Ricci (conmebol), Faghani (18), Irmatow, Nishimura (AFC), very good Mexicans (Rodgiuez, Archundia) and specially a big amount of great UEFA referees like Kuipers, Cakir, Brych, Rizzoli.
My overall impression is that average level of refereeing is decreasing, so in this year we have "a race of turtles", with connections to politics.
Look at all levels. The fans saying mean things is not the main reason reducing referees. It is a symptom of the bigger problems driving people out.
DeleteBad pay all levels when all levels, even youth, are big money.
Corruption, politics, and meritless promotions and appointments at all levels.
Making referees be full time and/or putting refereeing always first even at low levels — eliminating all the doctors, lawyers, police officers, and others who have often been the top referees.
And of course the old timers at the local level who desperately want to keep themselves on all the games and in power which means any new, good referees are a threat not a benefit.
And why do the referees have no personality? Someone who looks like Collina would never be given a chance today — must be tall and pretty for TV.
The refereeing world has always been a little dirty but never this bad.
Sampaio got 4 matches. Only he so far. Not Claus. Tall and pretty? In the end of your remarks your furor drives you into Paranoia.
DeleteI made a mess of the VARs.
ReplyDeleteARG-CRO: Orsato/Irrati
MAR-POR: Ramos/Fischer
Didn't realize Fischer had already displaced Guerrero on the last Ramos game plus been on ARG-NED.
*MAR-FRA
Delete