Wednesday 2 December 2020

Champions League 2020/21 - Discussion - Matchday 5 (II)

Referee appointments for 2020-21 UEFA Champions League Group Stage, Matchday 5.  Games to be played on 2 December 2020. 

2 December 2020

18:55 CET - Krasnodar (Stadium Krasnodar)
FC Krasnodar (RUS) - Stade Rennais FC (FRA) | Group E
Referee: William Collum (SCO)
Assistant Referee 1: Francis Connor (SCO)
Assistant Referee 2: David McGeachie (SCO)
Fourth Official: Nicolas Walsh (SCO)
Video Assistant Referee: Paul Tierney (ENG)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Constantine Hatzidakis (ENG)
UEFA Referee Observer: Boško Jovanetić (SRB)
UEFA Delegate: Jovan Šurbatović (SRB)

18:55 CET - Istanbul (İstanbul Başakşehir Fatih Terim Stadyumu)
İstanbul Başakşehir FK (TUR) - RB Leipzig (GER) | Group H
Referee: Carlos del Cerro Grande (ESP) 
Assistant Referee 1: Juan Carlos Yuste Jiménez (ESP)
Assistant Referee 2: Roberto Alonso Fernández (ESP)
Fourth Official: Guilllermo Cuadra Fernández (ESP)
Video Assistant Referee: Juan Martínez Munuera (ESP)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Diego Barbero Sevilla (ESP) 
UEFA Referee Observer: Darko Čeferin (SVN)
UEFA Delegate: Orkhan Huseynzade (AZE)

21:00 CET - Seville (Estadio Ramón Sánchez-Pizjuán)
Sevilla FC (ESP) - Chelsea FC (ENG) | Group E
Referee: Artur Dias (POR)
Assistant Referee 1: Rui Licínio (POR)
Assistant Referee 2: Paulo Soares (POR)
Fourth Official: Hugo Miguel (POR)
First test with remote VAR from Nyon (SUI):
Video Assistant Referee: Tiago Martins (POR)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Luís Godinho (POR)
Back-up VAR team at stadium, ready to intervene in case of need:
Video Assistant Referee: Paolo Valeri (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Ciro Carbone (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Peter Sippel (GER)
UEFA Delegate: Emil Ubias (CZE)

21:00 CET - Dortmund (BVB Stadion)
Borussia Dortmund (GER) - S.S. Lazio (ITA) | Group F
Referee: Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz (ESP)
Assistant Referee 1: Pau Cebrián Devis (ESP)
Assistant Referee 2: Roberto Díaz Pérez Del Palomar.(ESP)
Fourth Official: José Luis Munuera Montero (ESP)
Video Assistant Referee: Alejandro José Hernández Hernández (ESP)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: José María Sánchez Martínez (ESP)
UEFA Referee Observer: Uno Tutk (EST)
UEFA Delegate: Per Eliasson (SWE)

21:00 CET - Bruges (Jan Breydelstadion)
Club Brugge (BEL) - Football Club Zenit (RUS) | Group F
Referee: Serdar Gozübüyük (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Joost van Zuilen (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Johan Balder (NED)
Fourth Official: Allard Lindhout (NED)
Video Assistant Referee: Dennis Higler (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Bas Nijhuis (NED)
UEFA Referee Observer: Vladimir Medved (SVK) 
UEFA Delegate: Álvaro Albino (POR)

21:00 CET - Turin (Juventus Stadium)
Juventus (ITA) - FC Dynamo Kyiv (UKR) | Group G
Referee: Stéphanie Frappart (FRA)
Assistant Referee 1: Hicham Zakrani (FRA)
Assistant Referee 2: Mehdi Rahmouni (FRA)
Fourth Official: Karim Abed (FRA)  
Video Assistant Referee: Benoît Millot (FRA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Willy Delajod (FRA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Francesco Bianchi (SUI)
UEFA Delegate: Jacques Antenen (SUI) Duncan Fraser (SCO)

21:00 CET - Budapest (Puskás Aréna)
Ferencvárosi Torna Club (HUN) - FC Barcelona (ESP) | Group G
Referee: Aleksei Kulbakov (BLR)
Assistant Referee 1: Dzmitry Zhuk (BLR)
Assistant Referee 2: Aleh Maslianka (BLR)
Fourth Official: Viktar Shymusik (BLR)
Video Assistant Referee: Vitaliy Meshkov (RUS)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Sergei Ivanov (RUS) 
UEFA Referee Observer: Lutz-Michael Fröhlich (GER)
UEFA Delegate: Peter Oskam (NED)

21:00 CET - Manchester (Old Trafford) 
Manchester United FC (ENG) - Paris Saint-Germain (FRA) | Group H
Referee: Daniele Orsato (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Alessandro Giallatini (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Fabiano Preti (ITA) 
Fourth Official: Daniele Doveri (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Marco Guida (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Marco Di Bello (ITA) 
UEFA Referee Observer: Martin Ingvarsson (SWE)
UEFA Delegate: Georg Lüchinger (LIE)

59 comments:

  1. We can continue the discussion here, as the previous post reached the maximum of comments allowed.

    ReplyDelete
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  2. Referring to the Sevilla v Chelsea game. I called it live without seeing a replay, that's a pen. And you can tell how confident the VAR was that it was a penalty because they told the referee to stop play instead of waiting for a stoppage.i think this is clear handball under the Laws of the game as they are currently written.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, I agree.
      Arm above the shoulder is a sufficient condition for the penalty here - and it also hits the elbow and not the upper arm.
      BTW, commentators liked it, because it's "better for football", but they also expected the penalty there.

      Delete
  3. From the previous thread: "'The force is negligible' must be his argument according to the LotG. I also would prefer a RC here."

    @Phillip that "negligible" quote in the LotG is referring specifically to a situation where a player strikes someone in the head face *with their hand/arm*, so not relevant in this scenario.

    But I agree with you ultimately, I think this was VC

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, my mistake then.
      So it's back to "excessive force" and the old question, whether all force can be seen as "excessive" in such situations, because none was necessary.

      Delete
  4. So, we have 2 matches that are deciders on Tuesday:

    Lazio-Brugge
    Leipzig-Man.Utd

    And 2 important matches,PSG-Basaksehir fir Psg to secure 1st place, and Barca-Juve to decide who will be number 1.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Very good performance by Serdar Gözübüyük in Bruges

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I repeat my post.
      ---
      It seems like a good match for Gozübüyük with several important decisions without help of VAR. And he changed his manners, he got much better.
      ---
      In addition, I didn't like him before, I could feel him pompous. Today it was natural.

      Delete
  6. Lazio - Brugge I would appoint Grinfeld, but maybe Brych will be there, he is allowed because Borussia has already qualified.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But Dortmund and Lazio still compete for first place, so I don't think it's possible.

      Delete
  7. Predictions to last matchday 6 ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ajax-Bergamo Taylor
      Lazio Brugge Marciniak
      Barcelona Juventus Zwayer (he just had 1 match in this season)
      Salzburg A.Madrid Brych

      Delete
    2. Zenit - Dortmund : Ekberg (SWE)
      Lazio - Brügge : Grinfeld (ISR)
      Barcelona - Juventus : Brych (GER)
      Kyiv - Ferencvaros : Zwayer (GER)
      Chelsea - Krasnodar : Schärer (SUI)
      Rennes - Sevilla : Vincic (SVN)
      Paris SG - Basakehir : Jovanovic (SRB)
      RB Leipzig - Manchester United : Cakir (TUR)
      Midtjylland - Liverpool : Kabakov (BUL)
      Ajax - Atalanta : Bastien (FRA)
      Real Madrid - M'Gladbach : Marciniak (POL)
      I. Milano - Donezk : Oliver (ENG)
      Bayern - L. Moscow : Guida (ITA)
      Salzburg - A. Madrid : Taylor (ENG)
      Manchester City - Marseille : Kovacs (ROM)
      Olympiakos Piräus - FC Porto : Kruzliak (SVK)

      Delete
    3. Mine are quite similar (VAR in brackets):
      Zenit - Dortmund : Jug (Sanchez)
      Lazio - Brügge : Grinfeeld (Reinshreiber)
      Barcelona - Juventus : Taylor (Attwell)
      Kyiv - Ferencvaros : Zwayer (Stegemann)
      Chelsea - Krasnodar : Schärer (Irrati)
      Rennes - Sevilla : Ekberg (Dingert)
      Paris SG - Basakehir : Kruzliak (Blom)
      RB Leipzig - Manchester United : Cakir (Bitigen)
      Midtjylland - Liverpool : Meler (Martinez)
      Ajax - Atalanta : Marciniak (Gil)
      Real Madrid - M'Gladbach : Vincic (van Boekel)
      I. Milano - Donezk : Oliver (Kavanagh)
      Bayern - L. Moscow : Guida (di Bello)
      Salzburg - A. Madrid : Brych (Fritz)
      Manchester City - Marseille : Kralovec (Dankert)
      Olympiakos Piräus - FC Porto : Karasev (Meshkov)

      Delete
    4. My predictions:
      Zenit - Dortmund: Ekberg
      Lazio - Club Brugge: del Cerro Grande
      Barcelona - Juventus: Brych
      Kiev - Ferencvaros: Cakir
      Chelsea - Krasnodar: Kabakov
      Rennes - Sevilla: Madden
      PSG - Basaksehir: Grinfeld
      RB Leipzig - Man Utd: Kuipers
      Midtjylland - Liverpool: Letexier
      Ajax - Atalanta: Mateu Lahoz
      Real Madrid - Gladbach: Marciniak
      Inter - Shakhtar: Oliver
      Bayern - Loko Moscow: Schärer
      Salzburg - Atletico: Taylor
      Man City - Marseille: Kruzliak
      Olympiakos - Porto: Vincic

      Turpin not there, but he would be my pick for Napoli - Sociedad in Europa League

      Delete
  8. My predictions:
    SAL-ATL Makkelie
    BAY-LOK: Oliver
    RMA-BMG: Marciniak
    INT-SHA: Oliver
    OLY-POR: Ekberg
    MCI-MAR: Kruzliak
    LIV-MID: Letexier
    AJA-ATA: Turpin

    CHE-KRA: Kabakov
    REN-SEV: Raczkowski
    LAZ-CLU: Del Cerro Grande
    ZEN-DOR: Madden
    BAR-JUV: Brych
    DKI-FER: Cakir
    RBL-MANU: Kuipers
    PSG-IBB: Mateu Lahoz

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry Pawson instead of Oliver at Bayern

      Delete
    2. Ekberg had Marseille-Porto last week, I don't think they will give him the same teams again.

      Delete
    3. Makkelie had Salzburg match against Bayern

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    4. I have a feeling it will be very much a safe pair of hands for Leipzik v Man Un, Makellie, Kuipers or perhaps Cakir, its far enough away from Slovenia

      Delete
  9. Regarding Lahoz penalty, I initially thought that the Dortmund defender kicked the ball, and was as astounded as everyone else about the decision. But watch this video closely, the ball moves before the Dortmund player's leg gets there. I now think this was the correct decision. https://streamable.com/x1jzw2

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. https://twitter.com/i/status/1334257609206079488

      Delete
    2. Disagree. For me was not penalty to Lazio but was a swallow. Anonymus has send above the link

      Delete
    3. Yes, ball was not played by the defender. But the Lazio player jumps clearly before the contact. Technically it's still tripping somehow, but that should not really be a penalty.
      @Marvin: "Schwalbe" is "dive" in this context :)

      Delete
    4. @Philipp: Sorry because of wrong word 😁🤦‍♂️

      Delete
    5. IMO, clear penalty and good decision by Lahoz.

      Delete
    6. IMO That's never a penalty and a clear dive. VAR must recommend an OFR here without any doubts.
      Unbelievable on this level.

      Delete
  10. Question: Turpin has had Ajax on MD6 in the last 2 seasons; Ajax - Bayern for first place and Ajax - Valencia for qualification. Does UEFA keep this in mind while appointing refs or could we expect Turpin in Amsterdam again (other options seem to be Lahoz, Çakir, Marciniak and possibly Taylor).

    ReplyDelete
  11. Lazio-Brugge should go to Orel Grinfeld! This is in my opinion in a few years going to be in only a few years the absolute no. 1 in UEFA and FIFA refereeing. What a style, he never has any problem with acceptance and his communication is world class.

    This has to do with his background as a sergeant in the elite forces of the Israeli military, specialising in negotiation and special operations. Say what you want about Israel politically, but his training and experience with managing soldiers and interacting respectfully and de-escalatingly with Palestinians has helped him for sure to develop a unique personality. I'm sorry electrician Orsato or lawyer Brych, the most true and natural leader I have ever seen is Mr. Grinfeld.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am into refereing around 20 years and IMO best leaders in that period were Collina, Webb and Clattenburg (and maybe Rizzoli). Collina and Webb both very strict when solving problems on the pitch. Clattenburg on the other hand totaly oposite - calm, friendly, always smiling... But all three true and natural leaders on the pitch.
      From active referees - Cakir definitely number one with Kuipers and Brych just a step behind. But all three a lot of steps behind Collina, Webb and Clattenburg.

      Delete
    2. I actually also noticed the leadership skills demonstrated by Grinfeld this year. He is one the best surprises in 2020.

      Delete
    3. I agree on his very educated personality...and I think with more and more appointments he will get even more acceptance by the players...physically and mentally he is very fit...but sometimes if it comes to decision-making quality I think he is overrated...and what we should never forget: he never proved his skills infront of 60,000 spectators in a heated atmosphere like a k.o.-match in UCL...this year he had a very good year, but all matches were played without spectators or only 10-20%...and also we know that international caps (lets say UKR-GER) aren't as tense as - let's say - athletic v inter, or so...I think he is a very good prospect but in my eyes in the acutal situation it is very hard to judge without the pressure from spectators/atmosphere in the stadium etc...

      Delete
  12. Just one word about the game in Turin : absolutely perfect Stéphanie Frappart tonight. I'm a bit disappointed with the total absence of comments on the blog about her, but I guess that means she was perfect ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was watching the Sevilla v Chelsea game but will watch a mini match of her game now.

      Delete
  13. Just on the no red card after OFR by Orsato. I sent a player off in local football this EXACT same action a month ago. This is a red card. If you go head to head with another player and then push your head forward it's a headbutt and it's violent conduct.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Absolutely correct Jackson and in amateur football in Scotland a red card for a head butt is an automatic 18 month ban

      Delete
    2. Can't see there a headbutt as the heads were already together. Don't see how there should be an excessive force in this action, which would be needed as it's no force in the opponent's face.
      For me a YC is the better choice.

      Delete
    3. That is the difference between amateur football and Champions League.

      Delete
  14. My predictions, with VAR in brackets (was 4 for 16 last time, let's see how this goes...):

    ZEN-DOR: Vinčič (Dingert)
    LAZ-BRU: Kabakov (Hernández)
    BAR-JUV: Taylor (Tierney)
    DKV-FER: Bastien (Delajod)
    CHE-KRA: Gözübüyük (van Boekel)
    REN-SEV: Siebert (Fritz)
    PAR-IBFK: Grinfeld (Reinshreiber)
    RBL-MU: Kuipers (Blom)
    MID-LIV: Ekberg (Stegemann)
    AJX-ATA: Çakir (Bitigen)
    RMD-BMG: Oliver (Attwell)
    INT-SHK: Marciniak (Gil)
    BAY-LMO: Kružliak (Guida)
    SAL-ATM: Massa (Irrati)
    MC-MRS: Brych (Dankert)
    OLY-POR: Madden (Kavanagh)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Where are Hategan and Makkelie vor 6/6 :-) Dingert as a German with Dortmund is impossible, right?

      Delete
    2. Hategan is the only referee who can make the record, 6 appointments in 6 matchdays.
      Why Kabakov, Category 1, for a crucial game? Maybe you meant Kulbakov in Rome?

      Delete
    3. Was super late at night when I did this here. I’ll go with Vinčič w/Munuera on ZEN-DOR and then Hategan w/Hernández for LAZ-BRU.

      Delete
  15. It seems as UEFA has already planned that February winter courses for Elite and New FIFA referees will be online, like it happened in occasion of the last Summer Course.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. When can we expect lists of FIFA referees?

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    2. Winter course will be in Cyprus


      Source: Ex CYP woman Ref

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  16. Just seen the full sequence of the Lazio penalty. Rather strange, that the AR has intervened there as Mateu had a good view on the incident (and assessed it correctly...)
    Furthermore there was a potential DOGSO (maybe also penalty) in 19' (Marusic vs Bellingham). No foul can only be explained with a very lenient line of the referee, which obviously the AR didn't use in the penalty situation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. On reflection - in my view, the defender did commit an infringement, he impeded the attacker's progress. What else could the Lazio player really do there? The attacker didn't really have much 'choice' there but to 'dive'.

      So I would argue that an attacking indirect freekick (impeding without (non-attacker generated) contact) would be the most technically correct decision. :)

      I would argue that AR Pau Cebrián Devis actually has the best insight into what happens there from his position (attacker runs forward with the ball and has his progress impeded), so personally I am glad he had the courage to intervene.

      Interesting situation!

      Delete
    2. I agree, that the defender was not faultless there, because he came too late and didn't play the ball. And in theory, it indeed can be impeding or even tripping. However I still think, this an extreme example of a player leaning in / searching for contact to get a penalty, which should not be rewarded. He could also have continued running or tried to stop instead of jumping, I think.

      I thought, the AR looks on it from behind the Lazio player and therefore can't see the contact itself, while Mateu had a good angle from the side on it.

      Delete
    3. And indirect FK would be completely wrong as this tackling did not endanger the forward.
      Either you give a penalty for trying to trip or you give an indirect FK for the home team

      Delete
    4. Impeding with contact is a DFK (PK) or has that changed?

      Delete
    5. Not every impending with contact is a dfk

      Delete
  17. One more thought about Orsato's OFR:
    The fact, that he looked at it for such a short time could also mean that Guida already suggested, that YC would be sufficient. And they did the OFR only to be allowed to show the YC for the missed incident.
    That would be bending the VAR protocol quite far, but on the other hand the YC was still better than no card (as proven later on in the game...)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Knowing Orsato and his character (he likes to be the boss on the pitch and to decide everything), I would have doubts about your hypothesis, I think that he made this specific assessment once watched the situation at monitor due to opponent's exaggerate reaction (he didn't want maybe to show RC because in this way he would have implicitly allowed the player to cheat him?).

      Delete
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