Wednesday, 7 September 2022

Champions League 2022/23 - Discussion - Matchday 1 (II)

2022-23 UEFA Champions League Group Stage Matchday 1, discussion about Wednesday's games. 


7 September 2022

18:45 CET - Amsterdam (Johan Cruijff ArenA)
Ajax (NED) - Rangers (SCO) | Group A
Referee: Tobias Stieler (GER) 
Assistant Referee 1: Christian Gittelmann (GER)
Assistant Referee 2: Eduard Beitinger (GER) 
Fourth Official: Matthias Jöllenbeck (GER)
Video Assistant Referee: Christian Dingert (GER) 
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Marco Fritz (GER) 
UEFA Referee Observer: Itchko Lozev (BUL)
UEFA Delegate: Aristeidis Stavropoulos (GRE)

18:45 CET - Frankfurt am Main (Frankfurt Stadion)
Eintracht Frankfurt (GER) - Sporting CP (POR) | Group D
Referee: Orel Grinfeeld (ISR)
Assistant Referee 1: Roy Hassan (ISR)
Assistant Referee 2: Idan Yarkoni (ISR) 
Fourth Official: Gal Leibovitz (ISR) 
Video Assistant Referee: Pol van Boekel (NED) 
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Dennis Higler (NED) 
UEFA Referee Observer: Levan Paniashvili (GEO) 
UEFA Delegate: Rudolphe Mannaerts (BEL)

21:00 CET - Naples (Stadio Diego Armando Maradona)
SSC Napoli (ITA) - Liverpool (ENG) | Group A
Referee: Carlos Del Cerro Grande (ESP) 
Assistant Referee 1: Pau Cebrián Devís (ESP)
Assistant Referee 2: Guadalupe Porras Ayuso (ESP)
Fourth Official: César Soto Grado (ESP) 
Video Assistant Referee: Alejandro Hernández Hernández (ESP)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Xavier Estrada Fernandez (ESP)
UEFA Referee Observer: Stavros Tritsonis (GRE) 
UEFA Delegate: Jānis Mežeckis (LVA)

21:00 CET - Madrid (Estadio Metropolitano) 
Atlético Madrid (ESP) - Porto (POR) | Group B
Referee: Szymon Marciniak (POL) 
Assistant Referee 1: Paweł Sokolnicki (POL)
Assistant Referee 2: Tomasz Listkiewicz (POL)
Fourth Official: Paweł Raczkowski (POL)
Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
UEFA Referee Observer: Elmir Pilav (BIH) 
UEFA Delegate: Jeroen Roest (NED)

21:00 CET - Bruges (Jan Breydelstadion)
Club Brugge (BEL) - Bayer Leverkusen (GER) | Group B
Referee: Irfan Peljto (BIH)
Assistant Referee 1: Senad Ibrisimbegović (BIH)
Assistant Referee 2: Davor Beljo (BIH)
Fourth Official: Miloš Gigovic (BIH)
Video Assistant Referee: Marco Guida (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Markus Nobs (SUI) 
UEFA Delegate: Attila Tömő (HUN)

21:00 CET - Barcelona (Camp Nou)
Barcelona (ESP) - Viktoria Plzeň (CZE) | Group C
Referee: Lawrence Visser (BEL) 
Assistant Referee 1: Rien Vanyzere (BEL) 
Assistant Referee 2: Thibaud Nijssen (BEL)
Fourth Official: Bram Van Driessche (BEL)
Video Assistant Referee: Benoît Millot (FRA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Tiago Bruno Lopes Martins (POR) 
UEFA Referee Observer: Emil Bozinovski (MKD)
UEFA Delegate: Rotem Kamer (ISR)

21:00 CET - Milan (Stadio Giuseppe Meazza)
FC Internazionale (ITA) - Bayern München (GER) | Group C
Referee: Clément Turpin (FRA)
Assistant Referee 1: Nicolas Danos (FRA)
Assistant Referee 2: Cyril Gringore (FRA) 
Fourth Official: Ruddy Buquet (FRA)
Video Assistant Referee: Jérôme Brisard (FRA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Willy Delajod (FRA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Sokol Jareci (ALB) 
UEFA Delegate: Bert Andersson (SWE) 

21:00 CET - London (Tottenham Stadium) 
Tottenham (ENG) - Olympique Marseille (FRA) | Group D 
Referee: Slavko Vinčić (SVN)
Assistant Referee 1: Tomaž Klančnik (SVN)
Assistant Referee 2: Andraž Kovačič (SVN)
Fourth Official: Matej Jug (SVN)
Video Assistant Referee: Bastian Dankert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Fedayi San (SUI)
UEFA Referee Observer: Gylfi Þór Orrason (ISL)
UEFA Delegate: Kris Bellon (BEL)

51 comments:

  1. All the videos posted, for your convenience:

    NAP - LIV Second Penalty
    https://streamable.com/4ludzs

    Vincic RC for Dogso
    https://streamable.com/ox9aeg

    Interesting situation for Peljto. Why OFR?
    VAR: Guida, AVAR: Irrati
    https://streamable.com/ypcett

    Marciniak second YC:
    https://streamja.com/E6r6n
    Excellent decision...

    Disallowed goal for offside:
    https://streamff.com/v/43af87

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very, very good spot by Marciniak in the simulation incident! And without any hesitation or delay (which one quite often sees in situations like these).

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    2. Can't praise Marciniak enough for his performance today, absolutely the boss on the pitch, clear and fast decisions, consequent and brave. Wow! If he continues like that, he is a strong candidate for a very big final this year!

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  2. Simeone should be booked here

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  3. I wonder how a decision like this in the World Cup final would go over?

    https://twitter.com/DanielSpruegel/status/1567615685261402120

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So according to Daniel Spruegel we now should assess the level of “unfair advantage gained” when technique, as accurate as is possible, detects an offside? This is just initiating discussion to initiate discussion.

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  4. With regards to the 2nd penalty by Del Cerro and Hernández Hernández in Naples, and the incident in the England-Scotland game which was mentioned, here UEFA’s assessment in their EURO RAP.

    https://files.fm/u/9cugtupdv

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Too many differences IMO:
      In ENG-SCO
      - the attacker moves his leg towards the opponent, not towards the ball
      - the contact is slightly less intense, I think
      - the defender makes an explicit tackling movement and is not just running

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    2. - But here the attacker moves his leg just slightly sidewise, where tonight the sidewise movement was considerably further out.
      - Contact here maybe a bit less intense, agreed.
      - The explicit tackling action here should actually make it more of a penalty than the ‘just running’ of Virgil.

      Of course not an exact copy, but IMO this video makes it even more clear that this should not be deemed a penalty (while at the same time Uefa probably wants the penalty upheld when awarded on-field).

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    3. I've been reviewing tonight's penalty incident a dozen times, also trying to compare it to this ENG-SCO incident and I can fully agree with Philipp S. IMO, the main difference is that Sterling was specifically moving his leg towards the EXACT SPOT where he anticipated the opponent's foot would land, thus trying to "win a penalty". However, it seems to me that Osimhen's movement was clearly aimed at playing the ball (and succeeded in doing so), although it took his leg further sidewise. The main point for discussion here, IMO, is: can van Dijk be held responsible for the subsequent stamp? Because I don't see any real blame for Osimhen here.

      In further agreement with Philipp's statements from the previous post, I also think that penalty is the better decision. However, seeing this huge difference in opinions, it becomes very clear that UEFA needs to provide clear and detailed instructions how to solve these incidents ASAP. Also, deeming this situation "a clear and obvious error" becomes very questionable given the amount of debate it generated. Personally, if I were in the VOR, and given, for example, UEFA's preferred solution for the SVK-ESP incident from the last EURO, I would have definitely sent it down for an OFR as well.

      I'm very eager to read any differing opinions and explanations on this matter, mainly because I feel a lot can be learned from a situation like this.

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  5. What an end in Madrid, deciding goal in 90+11‘. Excellent management of the key incidents by Marciniak.

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  6. Marciniak penalty for handball:
    https://streamja.com/11n1r

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think that there was a faul before PK

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    2. Sorry but clear foul before PK. Where is VAR here ?

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    3. To me the possible fault instants before the PK is a simulation by the defense player, who exagerates to get a free kick. Very good refereeing in my opinion

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  7. IMO,Marciniak is currently the best Uefa ref ,he is in best form ad I am glad to see him back at the Uefa top.

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  8. hats off to Marciniak, brilliant performance, in my opinion 8.6

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  9. Wow! Unbelievable game in Madrid! Marciniak and his team will remember it forever, I think. Also, that's why football is the best sport on this planet :)

    Now about the performance.

    Three key match incidents correctly assessed live by Polish officials: 50' - goal disallowed due to offside in the build-up spotted by Sokolnicki, 81' - excellent 2YC for simulation (it's not Marciniak's fault that other referees often decide for play-on, not being sure about the incident), 90+5' - blatant penalty for handball as there is a clear hand move towards the ball (VAR intervention required in case of play-on).

    Full control of players behaviour, strongly reacting to any kind of dissent or mobbing. Everybody felt who is the boss on the pitch and we all agree that this along with big decisions is crucial in such games.

    Very good lost time compensation! Nine minutes added to the second half was exactly what I had in mind before it was communicated by the fourth official. Then, ATM's goal celebration and POR's penalty kick execution took some time. At least one minute extra should be played and it was. The corner kick was awarded ~99:55, so it had to be executed even if there was 'only' one extra minute. That was the case as immediately after the deciding goal was scored, Marciniak whistled for full time. Everything OK, even perfect I would say.

    What I didn't like was his lenient approach at the beginning. He could have issued three yellow cards already in first eight minutes of the game! 2' - pushing an opponent out of the field, 5' - illegal use of arm, 7' - potential SPA. But taking everything into account, it's really not sooo significant, especially that Marciniak didn't lose control in any moment of the game.

    Great football game, great refereeing!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I haven't watched the game, just additional based on a comment by the friend, so just have this information to provide that not only was Marciniak right to add additional time to additional time but if anything he was not generous enough.

      9 minutes minimum indicated
      Goal is scored at 90:59
      Kick-off at approx 92:30 (BT didn't show)
      Penalty is awarded at 94:02
      Penalty is scored at 95:48
      Kick-off at approx 96:50 (BT didn't show)
      Goal is scored at 100:18
      Play doesn't restart with a kick-off and full-time approx 100:50 (at least according to BT)

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    2. Marciniak is in top form!

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  10. Now watching Napoli vs Liverpool,why was Milner not shown YC for blocking shot with hand for first penalty?!?

    If we have in mind tha he was booked in 10' then we have pretty big mistake..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A very important mistake that you can't expect from an Elite referee, having to assess his performance it becomes difficult. The best thing was surely spotting first penalty live, about the second, I really liked the discussion on the blog about considering it or not a step on foot and so a foul, one can have different ideas, but I think we can't blame Hernandez Hernandez. As for the rest, it was a quite easy game to handle, given also the score. I think that all in all close to expected level but that missed card makes it a bit worse.

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  11. Barcelona vs Viktoria Plzen (Visser/Millot)
    https://streamable.com/e2k13n
    Disallowed PK and RC after an OFR. Also correct decision to book PLZ player for reckless challenge after OFR. IMO Visser has a clear view of the incident and maybe he should have seen the elbow by himself but for sure his focus has been at the players leg.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In such situations a referee seems indeed always focused on a possible foul by defender and it is very difficult to guess that there can be an infringment by attacker before. In this case the holding seesm to start exactly at the same time of the elbow in face, but for sure watching it, you always expect this arm to be punished. I would not penalize too much referee because assessing the elbow live with all people waiting for a penalty and RC would have been something more than extra-ordinary if you ask me. Referee was indeed looking elsewhere.

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    2. I would even say, that the holding itself (without the elbow) would have been a very soft/questionable penalty / RC decision.

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    3. Finally correct decision, but IMO, it's not clever, rather inappropriate, holding the red card in the hand by waiting the outcome of the VAR, like making 'a show on the catwalk' to the entire stadium during 1min27sec (match timer 23'23''-24'50")

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    4. Completely agree with the red card in the hand comment. There is no need for that, he could have kept it in the pocket

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  12. It seems, Turpin issued a YC for a hard but fair tackle on the ball;

    https://twitter.com/iklfl/status/1567727821526540293?s=46&t=AYHysGfx8CrZyHmOpuqM0g

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In France you’ll always see these hard tackles punished with a YC. The action by the defender is dangerous, no matter if he touches the ball or not.

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    2. France standard is not uefa standard

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    3. Referencing Pravda and using the clown emoticon this week perhaps leaves me a bit 'throwing stones / glass houses' :D, but there is definitely sth a bit 'weird' with how our blog interacts with Turpin (in terms of anonymous comments).

      It would be better to discuss the scene with the full sequence. For me the caution looks quite justified tbh (https://dubz.co/v/jmd2s5).

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    4. How the player starts the challenge for the ball with leg in that position, justifies the YC. Then of course most of referees don't issue it and they consider a fair intervention on the ball, but Turpin decision is not wrong, this can be something related to perosnal style and (luckily) not all referees are identical.

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    5. Yellow card fully supportable (e.g. intensity of the tackle)

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    6. If English commentators are accepting of a yellow card for the way the player enters the tackle then that tells you something for me.

      A fine tackle 10 years ago, but we're not living in the past.

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    7. Well, I have been a defender myself would be very very sad if “intense sliding tackles” would be banned from football!

      In last years CL campagne, I saw a quite hard, intense tackle from Modric on Messi - 100% on the ball, perfectly executed(!). It was a beautiful moment and I enjoyed it a lot. So, if you people are here with an agenda to motivate that “all intense tackles” should be banned from football and punished with a YC, we will never agree I guess……

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    8. If a player is technically very good, and able to execute the intense sliding tackle with perfection (like Modric), I’m all-in to allow it !!! :)

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  13. Almost impossible to make a full prediction for MD2.

    14 spots to fill.

    Quite certain:
    1. Oliver
    2. Siebert
    3. Makkelie
    4. Soares Dias
    5. Zwayer
    6. Mariani (**debute)
    7. Gil Manzano
    8. Mateu Lahoz
    9. Sánchez Martínez (All three Spanish?)

    Maybe:
    10. Kuĺbakoŭ
    11. Sidirópoulos
    12. Collum
    13. Kružliak

    Possibly not:

    - Orsato (Sunday game, but barely a game available for him on Wednesday)
    - Meler (Monday game)
    - Gözübüyük (uncertain when he returns)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think Collum deserved if he's appointed on MD2 after his performance in playoff and qualification (he has Saturday match)

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    2. Deserved? And what about Pyunik - Zvezda

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  14. Hello, nobody see the CLEAR foul by Porto’s attacker just before penalty decision by Marciniak ? Clear influence on play’s continuity. Var’s stuff IMO !

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good joke! Never a foul!

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    2. I agree on foul. It’s a clear push in the back of the defender. Therefore a foul in APP leading to PK. However, Atletico won so nobody talks. That’s called lucky refereeing!

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    3. A dive of the defender

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  15. After rewatching the incident it’s indeed an attacking foul. Smart refereeing would mean a whistle to avoid further problems in extra time! Nevertheless, the PK was spot on!

    ReplyDelete
  16. Two Brazilian teams in the Copa Libertadores final, who would be the best guess to officiate the final? I would’ve guessed Rapallini, but just saw that the previous 2 finals were officiated by Argentinians, so I’m interested in your thoughts

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Due to the two previous finals, Rapallini and Tello are indeed less likely, so it should be Valenzuela or Matonte, I think. Probably the more experienced Valenzuela is the frontrunner.

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  17. https://mobile.twitter.com/eesrevni/status/1567641789309353989 😶

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  18. I couldn't understand why Del Cerro Grande didn't show a yellow card to Milner in 5' (first penalty). No reason to not booking a player.

    ReplyDelete

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