Wednesday, 16 August 2023

2023 FIFA Women's WC - Semifinals - Discussion

After Edina Alves in Spain - Sweden, it's now Tori Penso turn. The US referee will officiate Australia - England. Let's comment her performance. 


Match 61 (Auckland)
15 August 2023, 10:00 CET
SPAIN - SWEDEN 
Referee: Edina Alves (BRA) 
Assistant Referee 1: Neuza Back (BRA)
Assistant Referee 2: Leila Cruz (BRA) 
Fourth Official: Melissa Borjas (HON)
Reserve AR :Sandra Ramirez (MEX) 
Video Assistant Referee: Nicolas Gallo (COL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Armando Villarreal (USA)
Offside Video Assistant Referee: Felisha Mariscal (USA)
SVAR : Juan Soto (VEN) 
SBVAR : Adil Zourak (MAR)
SBAVAR: Muhammad Taqi (SIN) 

Match 62 (Sydney)
16 August 2023, 12:00 CET
AUSTRALIA - ENGLAND 
Referee: Tori Penso (USA) 
Assistant Referee 1: Brooke Mayo (USA) 
Assistant Referee 2: Mijesa Rensch (SUR) 
Fourth Official: Yoshimi Yamashita (JPN) 
Reserve AR :Makoto Bozono (JPN) 
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Carol Anne Chenard (CAN) 
Offside Video Assistant Referee: Kathryn Nesbitt (USA) 
SVAR: Drew Fischer (CAN)

104 comments:

  1. Yamashita did get replaced!

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  2. Sorry, the information about Olofsson was true!
    So?
    1) Mismanagement by FIFA, and we will see the Japanese in final?
    2) She was unavailable for some reasons and they replaced with the Swedish.

    In all cases, extra-ordinary appointment, still a referee from a nation that was in semifinals... or maybe they waited for Sweden elimination to make such move? :D

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    1. Yes it's true and FIFA didn't change the information.

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    2. It could also mean, that they expected Schweden to go through to the final and Olofsson was planned for 3rd place game and is no replaced by Yamashita.

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    3. Because Olofsson still being there also means that she was planned for something!

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    4. What on earth is Schweden?

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  3. IMO surely Yamashita either for the final or 3rd place match

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  4. Lets hope Australia makes it so that we dont have to see Yamashita in the finals. Alves and Frappart were already bad enough.

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    1. I think Yamashita is not bad, but shaky, similar nuance with Artur Dias when I watch her. If she get the final, surely FIFA save their face, in terms of continuity of their choice in men’s WC.

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    2. She is (by far) not the best ref this WC. But Collina and co have already shown that they dont care when they gave Batista the semi

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  5. Yamashita is certain to make it to the finals or the third-place play-off.

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  6. Already missed YC :)

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  7. First remark : Yamashita is replaced by Olofsson.

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  8. Maybe there was an accident with the Japanese referee.

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  9. Tori Penso with a look like difficult game today, but I like her positioning. First incident was correct to offer a warning ⚠️ and correct second yellow card!

    English looks like they’re scared of Kerr and will try to take her out

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  10. Maybe, FIFA is more or less forced to give AFC something, after the disappointing Men’s World Cup, with no AFC officials in the knock-out rounds. Faghani was expected to make the most of it and politically would a big an advantage. And we know how that ended.

    Tbf I would still find it a bit odd to see another UEFA referee in a FIFA final. At the same time, not fully convinced by Yamashita. They gave her the opener and most likely gets another game (F or 3rd).

    The same can be said about CAF; some would expect them to have the 3rd place, like the Qatari, after their absence in the knock-out, however we’ve seen in Qatar how that ended… If FIFA learned from that, we will see a referee in the 3rd place game who had a decent tournament.

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    1. Final
      Staubli
      4th Yamashita

      3rd
      Mukansanga
      4th ?

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    2. Yamashita as 4th in the final is another option indeed

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  11. I’m English but Penso seems very one sided towards host nation so far, the yellow card was correct but foul detection seems to be all one way… interested what everyone else thinks

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    1. There was one missed foul by Australia (27’), but other than that, the “one way” nature of things is due to the strategy of the English team, which so far has been to foul Australians, especially the star player Kerr.

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    2. Agree. I am not English, completely neutral in this one but also noticed that Penso is a bit of a homer, certainly influenced by home crowd

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    3. sorry but i completely disagree. Penso is doing her job in a very good way

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    4. There were certainly a few fouls missed, the most obvious one by Raso on Daly in 27'. However, I agree with smala017 in attributing this to the style of the English team more than Penso's potential one sidedness.

      That being said, I would certainly like to see some small improvement in her foul detection in the 2H, although I still have to say she seems to be in full control, all the major decisions were correct IMO and I definitely like her way of dealing with the players.

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  12. Yamashita for 3/4 place and Staubli for the final...

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  13. also possible that Yamashita take 3/4 place as fourth offical

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  14. It seems impossible Yamashita only act as FO in 3rd place, because of the level of the match. But FO on the final seems possible, but still I think rather than she get final FO, she would get 3rd place match. My question is Mukansanga still in Australia? I mean she clearly not good enough as referee and didn’t rate high by FIFA and by political too, it seems impossible if the final referee will come from UEFA and 3rd place match is from CAF and not co-host nation/AFC (Yamashita/Jacewicz/Keighley).

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    1. IMO if Mukansanga still in Australia, she would only get FO in 3rd place match, which I think it’s very poor appointment, waste time.

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    2. Why cannnot Yamashita be fourth for Australia final?

      Referee - Staubli (Uefa)
      4to - Yamshita (Afc)

      Match - Spain (Uefa) x Australia (Afc)

      ??

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    3. Yes she could be FO on the final, but do you think FIFA made radical change in last minute that cmiiw for the first time in history of women football (at least) “only” to put Yamashita as FO on the final.

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    4. No, they made radical change to include both Olofsson (sf) and Yamashita (final) as 4to due to messing up Sweden referees knockout stage.

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  15. Penso's second half has been poor so far

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  16. Penso really need to get that YC for DtR out soon, because this behaviour from England is getting embarrassing

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  17. Penso looking out of her depth now the game has reached this stage, England looking to delay and seemingly getting away with it

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  18. I think Penso really need to give the ENG player YC for time wasting on throw in

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  19. Penso did well so far, but her approach against time-wasting is really not expected level. 3 obvious moments for a yellow card missed, and we all know giving it in the 89th minute is useless.

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  20. This was probably the fourth time so far that Penso has told the England players to hurry up, why not just get that card out? I don't understand it

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  21. Smile from Penso after ENG scoring :) I think she must avoid that

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    1. What a bullcrap. She has been doing this the whole match towards all players. Love to see thats shes not a robot who is only whistling fouls and doing nothing like Alves yesterday. For me the only point of criticism is that she should have given at least a YC for time wassing. But the overall picture to me has been expected level

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    2. I agree with @anonymous 13:48. I think she leaves a good impression when it comes to communication between the players, often makes very clear gestures. She decided for a more lenient approach today, I think it was well respected by the players. It is ridiculous how much time wasting she tolerated from England though

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    3. Come on! Don’t imply anything there! She’s done that all the way through - excellent interaction with the players and great to see a referee with personality who looks like she’s enjoying her appointment rather than Alves robot who looks like she’s at a funeral!

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  22. That goal all comes down to Penso allowing the play to be how England wanted it, not the pace the game was

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  23. Yet again Penso has let the game slow to ridiculous levels, absolutely disgusting refereeing

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    1. My eyes got stuck in the back of my head after eye rolling so hard after reading this comment.

      Charade, you are.

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  24. Only pulls out a YC now.?

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  25. Say what you will - one of the best performances so far this tournament by a referee. Much better than yesterday’s disaster from Alves.

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    1. Best? This has to be down as the WORST...

      I'm sorry but the cynical tactical fouling from England that was allowed to continuously allowed to happen and then once it got to 2-1 she allowed the most blatant of time wasting

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    2. Think you’re watching a different game. Hardly fouling tactics. Australia got stuck in to and Penso excellent judged her involvement, letting the game flow and in full control. Even thea’ time wasting’ was mild compared to most games in this situation.

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    3. What a load of rubbish. If anything in the first half she was influenced by home crowd and favoured Australia, every 50/50 going Australia's way. Second half was very good from her. Overall I d say not perfect but good performance.

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    4. There was no cynical fouling,if you were to take off your Aussie bias glasses .The game was well refereed allowing it to flow.

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    5. Oh rubbish, you cannot sit there and say it wasn't a tactic of the English with any sort of straight face. It was obvious and the time wasting with ZERO effort to stop it.

      There's been other referees that have had zero tolerance in 4-0 group games to not have it. Penso did not in a semi-final

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  26. Not a bad performance overall. More of the same stuff that got Penso here: good conversations / warnings / explanations with players, good facial expressions etc. But like we saw hints of in previous games, she has been too lenient with restart delays for my liking. Indeed I counted 4 different occasions in which she warned England about their delays. She only finally pulled out the card in the 95th minute for a very cynical delay. Too much bark for not enough bit, for my liking.

    Overall a good performance, but a clear point for improvement (at least in my opinion. Maybe FIFA like this management style. As I said, we saw hints of it in her earlier games, so...)

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    1. You nailed it!

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    2. I agree with your assessment fully. Management of DtR was definitely deficient and she should have punished it earlier, but somehow I'm not too surprised that she didn't, given FIFA's ridiculous stance on time wasting. However, it's definitely a mistake and a point for improvement, as you said.

      Still, I have to say I liked her performance in many other aspects. She seems to be a good manager with quality rapport with the players, her nonverbal communication is excellent. All her major decisions were correct IMO, and it seemed to me she managed to correct some mistakes in foul detection observed in the 1H. Therefore, my overall assessment is positive, also including her whole tournament.

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  27. After the elemination of the Aussies an outsider for the final should be Jacewicz instead of Yamishita. ;) However for me Staubli performance wise should be the frontrunner

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  28. If only there was an experienced referee from neutral country with experience of England - Spain duel at a big women tournament who FIFA could turn to for the final assignment... ;))

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  29. Poor refereeing - once again. The refs at this tournament and it counts for nearly all of them - simply do not seem to have the greater understanding of the game.

    Shirt pulls when stopping counters need to result in a yellow card. Obstructing the keeper from starting a quick attack; same. No matter if its the first or 90th minute of the game. The 'extra' extra time is a good change, but if a ref believes she is suppose to warn 5-11 different players on a team for time-wasting before handing out a card, then the ref has simply lost the plot (or doesn't understand that football players are wasting time not only to waste time but simply break the rhytm of play). If the womens game of soccer is to be taken serious, more referees should be found among ex-players.

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    1. If FIFA have directed referees to’ manage’ cautions, and avoid as many as possible, then a slight block of a GK is easily managed with a warning. Can’t give that a YC and ignore other offences

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  30. Everyone on this blog is always unnecessarily hypercritical. Penso did a decent, if not solid, job today and handled a potentially “hot” game well.

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  31. Thought Penso was superb and a shame she isn’t now available for the final, considering USA are out.

    Strong in the face of pressure from home crowd, let two physical teams play and allowed game to flow, lots of good advantages, didn’t overreact to anything as game was played in good spirit. Refereed in consistent way to current expectation from FIFA. Excellent control and calm, positive manner with players.

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  32. Remarkable amount of excessive negativity from anonymous accounts. Penso had a decent game, in control, yellow cards correct. She could have been stricter on England time wasting, this is something that FIFA needs to clamp down on. All in all a decent performance

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    1. Spot on analysis

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    2. @Ecosse Totallt agree - like some people have watched a different game!

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    3. You are absolutely right, Ecosse. It's difficult to comprehend the reasons for so many negative comments. With all due respect, many of them seem exaggerated.

      I won't type my assessment for the second time, but your analysis is the same as mine.

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  33. Agree, some fouls missed in the first half, could have been stricter with time wasting in the 2nd half but overall decent performance I d say I d say 8 out of 10

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  34. A pretty good performance from Penso, clear difference from the one yesterday where she booked an early challenge to set the tone for the game

    Staubli or Jacewicz should get the final, Yamashita shouldn’t be anywhere near the final after that disgraceful USA-NED performance

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    1. Jacewiz I don't think

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    2. Women’s World Cups have history of giving the final to the host country, it’s either her Staubli or Carvajal

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  35. Final predictions
    SWE-AUS: Fortunato, de Almeida, Milone (all ARG), Garcia (MEX) - Hernandez (ESP), di Iorio (ARG), Caudillo (MEX), Martinez (ESP)
    ESP-ENG: Staubli (SUI), Rafalski (GER), Küng (SUI), Yamashita (JPN) - Fritz (GER), van Boekel (NED), de Vries (BEL), Guzman (NCA)

    For third place, I don't really expect Mukansanga, because she hasn't appeared anywhere in the KO stage, so there is a decent probability, she isn't in Australia anymore.
    Yamashita could happen, but you can argue, whether 3rd place referee or final 4th is the better achievement.

    For the final, Yamashita probably is a realistic option again after today's change, but IMO Staubli's chances are still higher. But more like a 70/30 decision now, I think. If Yamashita referees, Staubli could be the 4th official.
    For VAR, I could also imagine a CONCACAF crew led by Chenard instead of Staubli's UEFA team. Even more so, if Yamashita referees.

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    1. Rafalski in her second world cup final??

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    2. I don't think, they would break up Staubli's team just to avoid that...

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    3. Would love to see Chenard appointed as VAR for final. She has certainly earned it.

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  36. I can't understand the amount of the negative comments because we certainly did not see a badly refereed game. No comparision to the semi yesterday to be honest. Penso definitely had some problems today, she allowed the english players very much in the way they targeted Kerr and in terms of time wasting at the end, yes, but Penso allowed also an intense and physical game to develop and was very present due to her own athletic abilities and strong gestures. I never felt that she was losing the control and I am also convinced that her smiles are a problem, far more refreshing to see.
    But the additional time was an issue: Penso either should have much earlier booked one or more players and be stricter in the prevention of time wasting or she should at least have much more time added than 6 minutes. I expected at least 9 or 10, also compared to what we saw in this tournament so far.
    So definitely things to improve, but not a bad performance and surely the better of the two semi final referees, at least in my books.

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  37. Great performance for Penso 👏👏👏

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  38. On the way home after the match, Australia supporter too but I thought Penso had a good game in general. She let the play flow, advantage applied correctly, warnings to players when needed. I don't think I can criticise her much. Maybe she was a bit lenient on the time wasting but I guess she's more tolerant. We can't expect perfection but overall a good job.

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  39. Australia supporter - thought Penso had a very good game. Good early caution and foul identification throughout the game in general.

    It's natural that Australia were frustrated with England's clear tactic of fouls to break up transition moments (that weren't at the level of SPA), but you cannot just give YCs on this basis, especially when the fouls were committed by different players.

    Could have been more proactive with delaying the restart of play situations, but it seems a FIFA directive to give a few warnings/whistles first. Still, she gave a YC for DtR, which is good optics. Good match control overall, no controversies.

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  40. Interesting that the native English speakers had almost no var interventions. I was looking forward to seeing if we would get a more detailed public explanation from a native speaker after an ofr.

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    1. Indeed only some offside interventions for English speakers, among them Anna-Marie Keighley who used slightly different words to make the announcement.
      The best announcement from a NO-English speaker was probably made by Staubli.

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  41. I would have Olofsson for the final ,a referee that the players respect and she gets what she wants.She is also not afraid to pull cards out.

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    1. I like her too. But with only 35 years, she has still two WC.

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    2. She is a normal referee. Gives red cards for yellow card offences. Doesn’t have natural communication.

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  42. What is the right way to go for time wasting? The game tonight seemed to have excessive that was let go but others have had referees clamp down instantly. In admittedly local leagues, I've been called out for allowing any. Where do we go with it?

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    1. I'm quite enjoying the English approach this season. Quite simply, encouraged to have quick play and if not then a YC for DtR quickly issued. When you start getting suspended due to it (and having extra added time), it might sink in that trying to reduce ball in-play time won't be tolerated.
      I have to say it also helps that referees across the leagues appear to have been quite consistent with it so far. That is also key

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  43. My predictions:

    Final (ESPENG):
    Yamashita, Bazono, Teshirogi (All JPN), Staubli, Rafalski (all SUI) - Gallo (COL), De Iorio (ARG), Soto (VEN), Chenard (CAN)

    3rd place (SWEAUS):
    Keighley, Jones (All NZL), Salamasina (SAM), Mukansanga (RWA), Victoire (MRI) - Van Boekel (NED), Fritz (GER), De Vries (BEL), Fischer (CAN)

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    1. Keighley is at home and Rafalski is not SUI.

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  44. Final Predictions:

    SWE-AUS: Carvajal - Vasquez, Amboya - Fortunato - Chenard, Hernandez

    ESP-ENG: Staubli - Rafalski, Küng - Yamashita - Fritz, van Boekel

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  45. Watched the first 20 minutes of the match. In that time, it became obvious to me that Penso was going to act as an accomplice to England's tactics.
    And I've become the type of person who has zero desire to watch matches in which the officiating overly influences the development or the outcome of a match.
    Nor will I watch matches in which individuals dress and "act" like referees but fail to do what referees are supposed to do. If they're unable to follow and enforce The Laws of the Game, I tune out.
    Some will say that I missed a great match by tuning out today. And I will disagree with you. Refereeing is not about the spectacle or ensuring that the non-informed are entertained. The Laws are called Laws for a reason. They are not suggestions or else they would be labeled as such.

    #MakeRefereeingGreatAgain

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    1. The funny thing about that comment is when I became a referee, the instructors said the laws are printed in paperback because they are meant to bend. One of those guys became a FIFA referee a year later.

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    2. Clearly our instructors/mentors were and are worlds apart. I too have met and worked with referees who have attained their FIFA badges. But I have no need to bring it up in order to justify my opinion. Cheers!

      #MakeRefereeingGreatAgain

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    3. The intent of the comment wasn’t to justify my opinion, but to illustrate that people at the highest levels of the game have different ways of thinking about the game. And I’m not trying to say all people think like he does. But you spoke in an absolute.

      Now, I don’t want to portray my instructors as wishy washy anything goes types. Far from it. Certain things in the game are absolute. The field. The markings. The ball. The players. Then there are gray areas because a situation isn’t always cut and dry. That’s why officials at an elite camp can look at the same situation and one think penalty and yellow/red card and another think no foul, with no clear way to determine who is correct.

      Worked with another national official for years who would call a game differently based on what the league was. If it was a college game where the kids were fast but really undisciplined, he might call it really tight. A men’s league game that had slower players but who were more technically skilled would get a more relaxed game, because the purpose of the game was to allow the players to showcase their skills.

      And I’m not trying to drop these people in like I was something special. I was a solid local official who tried to soak up as much info as I could, and their approach tot the game made the most sense to me. They way they talked about it was just different.

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  46. It's a disgrace that Lauren James will be available to play in the Final because of FIFA's "limp-wristed" discipline.

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  47. For a little historical perspective on time wasting, FIFA really clamped down in the 90s, and the result was a lot of yellow cards but not always a reduction in time wasting. Actually, there probably was an actual reduction, but I don’t know if it was worth the increase in yellow cards, which also delayed a return to play. Probably look at matches in the ‘98 World Cup for an example here. And the referees who gave less cards for that would have been selected to move on so we could have a more enjoyable final for fans.

    For the record, I don’t disagree with a frustration because of time wasting. I’m probably more of the opinion that adding on more time is easier that cautioning everyone though. Like, I’ll stay here all day if I need to, but we’re playing the full 90. It also lets you keep your cards in your pocket until you need them. Sometimes pulling them for time wasting sets a tone and everyone gets it. Other times you lock yourself into a precedent and either have to be inconsistent or give 10-12 cards in a match. I’ve given the double digit cards and it just wasn’t fun.

    Random story. There was also a big emphasis on diving in about ‘02, with a lot of cards for that. If that was the year Collina did the final, I’m pretty sure he blew the whistle, motioned for a dive, gave the kick to the defense, but didn’t show a yellow card. Could be wrong on that, but it sounds right.

    Things come and go as points of emphasis. If it gets bad enough, or people get tired of seeing 11 minutes of added time, they’ll crack down on time wasting again.

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    1. But everything is going in one direction though. All in the direction of loosening everything. With very little if any tightening of anything.

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    2. DTR Cautions = Ignore the entire match and maybe caution a player in the last minute of added time. But only after giving about 100 verbal warnings.
      Dissent by word or action Cautions = Ignore it all by pretending to be blind and deaf.
      SPA Cautions = Ignore completely in the 1st half of matches and as needed in the 2nd half.
      Reckless Foul Cautions = Ignore completely in the 1st half of matches and as needed in the 2nd half.
      SFP/VC Red Cards = 1. Underpunish by only showing a yellow card (even if you clearly saw it like Borjas). 2. Force VAR to do your job for you. 3. Once you've been backed into a corner by having to conduct an OFR. Only then should a Red Card be shown.
      How to be a "modern" FIFA referee in a nutshell. Oh, and run around a lot. Not necessarily have good positioning on the pitch, just run around a lot.
      Laws of the Game be damned, do it this way and you'll be loved by the Referee Committee as they don't much care for the Laws anyways.

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  48. Cheryl Foster will be a referee for 3rd place :o

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  49. Foster and Welch still being there and being referee and 4O respectively for the third place playoff is not something I had thought as an option, especially with England's progression. That being said, very well deserved. Two referees hampered by England's progress (and maybe in part by a need for non-Uefa officials) so I am glad they have this as a consolation. She may have had easier games, but Foster refereed them all very well

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  50. Final is maybe Jacewicz or Yamashita.

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  51. Cheryl Foster for the 3rd place and Rebecca Welch FO.

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    1. I feel a bit sorry for Welch that she didn't get more. She had 3 good performances in three games that were not very easy (like Foster's). If not for England's performance, I thought she could have been a possibility for the Final. I suppose Welch has a long career ahead of her, while this is likely Foster's only WWC.

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  52. [#FIFAWWC ]
    🇸🇪 Suecia vs Australia 🇦🇺
    A: Cheryl Foster 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿
    A1: Michelle O'Neill 🇮🇪
    A2: Franca Overtoom 🇳🇱
    4ta: Rebecca Welch 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
    5ta: Natalie Aspinall 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
    VAR: Marco Fritz 🇩🇪
    AVAR: Alejandro Hernandez 🇪🇸
    OVAR: Sian Massey-Ellis 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
    SVAR: Masimiliano Irrati 🇮🇹

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    ReplyDelete

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