Tuesday games of 2023-24 UEFA Champions League Matchday 2, referee assignments.
18:45 CET - Berlin (Olympiastadion)
1. FC Union Berlin (GER) - SC Braga POR) | Group C
Referee: Srđan Jovanović (SRB)
Assistant Referee 1: Uroš Stojković (SRB)
Assistant Referee 2: Milan Mihajlović (SRB)
Fourth Official: Novak Simović (SRB)
Video Assistant Referee: Ivan Bebek (CRO)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Stuart Attwell (ENG)
UEFA Referee Observer: David Fernández Borbalán (ESP)
UEFA Delegate: Arturs Gaidels (LVA)
18:45 CET - Salzburg (RB Arena)
RB Salzburg (AUT) - Real Sociedad de Fútbol (ESP) | Group D
Referee: Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
Assistant Referee 1: Marcin Boniek (POL)
Assistant Referee 2: Jakub Winkler (POL)
Fourth Official: Patryk Gryckiewicz (POL)
Video Assistant Referee: Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Piotr Lasyk (POL)
UEFA Referee Observer: Fredy Fautrel (FRA)
UEFA Delegate: Per Eliasson (SWE)
21:00 CET - Manchester (Old Trafford)
Manchster United FC (ENG) - Galatasaray SK (TUR) | Group A
Referee: Ivan Kružliak (SVK)
Assistant Referee 1: Branislav Hancko (SVK)
Assistant Referee 2: Jan Pozor (SVK)
Fourth Official: Peter Kralović (SVK)
Video Assistant Referee: Bastian Dankert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Bram Van Driessche (BEL)
UEFA Referee Observer: Martin Hansson (SWE)
UEFA Delegate: Edgars Pukinsks (LVA)
21:00 CET - Copenhagen (Parken)
FC København (DEN) - FC Bayern München (GER) | Group A
Referee: Orel Grinfeeld (ISR)
Assistant Referee 1: Roy Hassan (ISR)
Assistant Referee 2: Idan Yarkoni (ISR)
Fourth Official: Gal Leibovitz (ISR)
Video Assistant Referee: Roi Reinshreiber (ISR)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Ziv Adler (ISR)
UEFA Referee Observer: Stefano Podeschi (SMR)
UEFA Delegate: Tormod Larsen (NOR)
21:00 CET - Lens (Stade Bollaert-Delelis)
RC Lens (FRA) - Arsenal FC (ENG) | Group B
Referee: Marco Guida (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Filippo Meli (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Giorgio Peretti (ITA)
Fourth Official: Matteo Marchetti (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Paolo Valeri (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Michael Fabbri (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Vladimir Antonov (MDA)
UEFA Delegate: Bakar Jordania (GEO)
21:00 CET - Eindhoven (PSV Stadion)
PSV (NED) - Sevilla FC (ESP) | Group B
Referee: Daniele Orsato (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Ciro Carbone (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Alessandro Giallatini (ITA)
Fourth Official: Antonio Rapuano (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Tiago Bruno Lopes Martins (POR)
UEFA Referee Observer: Alan Mario Sant (MLT)
UEFA Delegate: Iva Olivari-Ulisa (CRO)
21:00 CET - Naples (Stadio Diego Armando Maradona)
SSC Napoli (ITA) - Real Madrid CF (ESP) | Group C
Referee: Clément Turpin (FRA)
Assistant Referee 1: Nicolas Danos (FRA)
Assistant Referee 2: Alexis Auger (FRA)
Fourth Official: Stéphanie Frappart (FRA)
Video Assistant Referee: Jérôme Brisard (FRA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Benoît Millot (FRA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Emil Bozinovski (MKD)
UEFA Delegate: David McDowell (SVN)
21:00 CET - Milan (Stadio Giuseppe Meazza)
FC Internazionale (ITA) - SL Benfica (POR)| Group D
Referee: Danny Makkelie (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Hessel Steegstra (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Jan de Vries (NED)
Fourth Official: Allard Lindhout (NED)
Video Assistant Referee: Rob Dieperink (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Nejc Kajtazović (SVN)
UEFA Referee Observer: Stefan Meßner (AUT)
UEFA Delegate: Michael O'Brien (ENG)
Bram Van Drieesche? Signal for Lambrechts to debut?
ReplyDeleteCorrect.
DeleteI think Makkelie has once again made a structural change in his team. After the EL play off, Dieperink is again his VAR. Understandable after the number of mistakes by Van Boekel.
ReplyDeleteAnd Gozubuyuk works with Higler
DeleteQuite normal/expectable referee appointments, I think.
ReplyDeleteThe AVARs might give some hints for Wednesday:
Possible debuts for Lambrechts (van Driessche) and Obrenovic (Kajtazovic).
Martins could indicate Soares Dias directly coming back.
Attwell should be there for Taylor (very expected anyway).
Furthermore Kwiatkowski with Frankowski raises some doubts, whether Marciniak will work next week.
Are we gonna see Chris Kavanagh back as a VAR anytime soon?
ReplyDeletehttps://es.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2038386--dinamo-tbilisi-vs-astana/matchinfo/
DeleteWe can indeed say almost all regular assignments with some particular remarks.
ReplyDeleteI didn't expect Frankowski, he looked to be out from "CL circle" in recent times, but a good opportunity for him, with Marciniak's VAR. This maybe can suggest us, as Philipp wrote, that Marciniak is not planned for a CL game on Wednesday, otherwise he should get another VAR. Still, he handled a CL Play Off, so I don't think we can link this possible absence to the famous facts of CL final. We will see.
On the other hand, I think that Kruzliak got a very interesting game, Manchester United should be favorite team, but we see that English teams at moment seem to be in trouble, so the game can turn in a challenging one, but still with "British atmosphere", that always helps a referee, differently from other grounds.
Jovanović back in Champions League but still under a certain focus, quite important observer and the game could have been assigned to a Cat. 1 (see Union Berlin appointment on MD1).
Makkelie meets again an Italian team, many appointments for him with such country and we know how much can be difficult to handle these games, while Turpin as expected gets Napoli - Real Madrid.
For tomorrow, we can expect a Belgian and a Slovenian debut, then Taylor as well.
A final remark about the observer for Orsato: in the normal course of the things, it should be the contrary, with the Italian teaching the Maltese from his experience, but we see very often in UEFA that this is not followed. An observer can have by far less experience than the referee he is going to watch, and it is surely a very good opportunity to have an exchange about the point of views and the different refereeing schools they come from (try to compare Italy and Malta...).
Predictions
ReplyDeleteAtletico-Feyenoord: Anthony Taylor
Antwerp-Shaktar Donetsk: Kristo Tohver
Celtic-Lazio: Daniel Siebert
Dortmund-Ac Milan: Halil Umut Meler
Newcastle-Paris: Istvan Kovacs
Leipzig-ManCity: Francois Letexier
Crevena zvezda- Young boys: Dabanovic
Porto-Barcelona: Felix Zwayer
Tohver after that performance in Brighton last week? Would be lucky to even get an ECL appointment this autumn
DeleteI was expecting Daniel Siebert or Alejandro Hernandez to take part in the Manchester United- Galatasaray match.
ReplyDeleteMy predictions for tomorrow's matches ;
ReplyDeleteAtletico - Feyennord : Daniel Siebert
Antwerp - Shaktar Donetsk : Artur Soares Dias
Celtic - Lazio : Alejandro Hernandez
Dortmund - Milan : Michael Oliver
Newcastle - PSG : Davide Massa
Leipzig - M.City : Benoit Bastien
Crevena Zvezda - Young boys : Andris Treimanis
Porto - Barcelona : Glenn Nyberg
Impossible. One word: neutrality
DeleteHow Oliver is there? Newcastle is in same group. May be Dias! No German, British, Italian even French!
DeleteYeah. Oliver is English (and a big Newcastle fan btw), no way he will officiate in the same group.
DeleteDias impossible in Antwerp (Porto is in the same group)
No Massa with Newcastle (Milan in same group)
Hernandez impossible at Celtic (Atletico in same group)
Siebert is impossible at Atletico (the ref observer is German)
I think we can pencil Obrenovic at Antwerp (Mazic observing as a mentor of young talent group makes sense)
Lambrechts in Belgrade?
How can Siebert be considered elite? In my eyes, he lacks authority on the field and doesn't have a powerful body language. As long as the match goes in a normal way and he is not under any pressure, he's okay. However, an elite referee should be able to handle any situation.
ReplyDeleteHe is Rosettis Darling!
DeleteNoticed Anthony Taylor not wearing his FIFA badge in the Everton Luton game. Has he lost his badge with him being 45 later this month?
ReplyDeleteIt’s normal, you can see Orsato without his FIFA badge in Saudi few days ago.
DeleteIt’s not normal for English FIFA referee not to wear their badges, reason Taylor wasn’t wearing his is because it fell off from wear it was attached to.
DeleteIt rained all game and fell off
DeleteDo you think there is a posibility that Jesus Gil Manzano, Jose Maria Sanchez Martinez or Alejandro Hernandez will be appointed as referee in any European cup match this week?
ReplyDeleteI think one of them will be appointed as the referee for any European match this week.
Appointments for MD1 and 2 have been made together, Sanchez Martinez and Gil Manzano got already games on MD1.
DeleteThe only Spanish Elite missing is Hernandez Hernendez, quite sure he will get a game: I predicted him for Manchester United - Galatasaray but this wasn't the case.
About Wednesday's games, given also the observers, Leipzig - Manchester City possible for him.
He could also appear in group F but here we had the two Spanish on MD1, so rather unlikely.
If not in Leipzig, then Europa League for him.
What game can Lambrechts play on Wednesday? (taking into account Van Driessche as AVAR on Tuesday)
ReplyDeleteIt's quite possible that Van Driessche is operating from Nyon. So in IMO, Leipzig - M.City or Crevena Zvezda - Young boys. The latter seems me the most appropriate option.
DeleteThe matches he cannot referee are Antwerp - Shaktar Donetsk and Porto - Barcelona. He also cannot referee the Atletico Madrid - Feyenoord match because the observer is Herbert Fandel (referee boss in Belgium). The matches that Erik Lambrechts can referee are Celtic-Lazio, Dortmund-Milan, Newcastle-PSG, Leipzig-Manchester City or Crvena Zvezda-Young Boys. This is my list of matches that he could possibly referee: 1. Crvena Zvezda - Young Boys
Delete2. Leipzig - Manchester City
3. Celtic - Lazio
4. Newcastle - PSG
5. Dortmund - Milan
The conclusion is that his debut will not be easy either because of the atmosphere in the stadium or because of 1 or both teams.
No Belgian teams for this MD2
DeleteBTW, Orsato had the very same game this February in the Europa League. Not a clean performance according to blog comments back then.
ReplyDeleteI don't think, it's really a problem, but still an unusual repetition.
Im already happy that PSV gets the only Elite referee italy really has...
DeleteMore controversy in the Premier League today. Michael Oliver and his assistant Adrian Holmes again (Same assistant referee who Dissalowed the Diaz goal yesterday) missing potentially 4 interventions for penalties to Brentford. First one if it does touch his arm (looks like it does) then is has to be a penalty. Second one, looks like the defender moves his hand towards the ball. Third one is just dreadful all round from on field referee Paul Tierney and the VAR team. Goalkeeper absolutely cleans out the attacker getting no where near the ball. Yet again Paul Tierney making what was an easy game really look beryndifficult to referee. The fourth one was the second YC which was a far worse tackle than what Jones was sent off for yesterday. This game had the best referee in the league on VAR as welll. Dreadful stuff.
ReplyDeletehttps://x.com/skysportspl/status/1708504715795869853?s=46
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletesorry I make a mistake. so, I think Kovacs could be at Newcastle with PSG. But, for me it is strange that he didn't have yet PSG, but he had another big teams. Maybe, Kovacs wasn't appointed for PSG because what happened with Hategan team, when PSG meet Basaksehir. So, that was my mistake, between Besiktas and Basaksehir. ·
ReplyDeleteAs response for Chefren comment about Orsato observer, may I know how old Alan Mario Sant from Malta? As I google it he is only 42?!
ReplyDeleteGoogle is wrong: He is already 43!
DeleteI mean, Orsato 48 and his observer only 43? Are u kidding me? And he is from Malta, Orsato from Italy?? How is it possible mate
DeleteThat's why I wrote the comment, very particular, even about the age...
DeleteDo you remember any kind of this particular things happened in UCL level, especially in terms of very trusted elite referees paired with referee that just retired in 2020.
DeleteWell, technically Kuipers for Turpin in last season's SF fulfills your question about a recently retired referee observing a very trusted elite referee...
DeleteOtherwise it often happens, that the observer is less experienced as the referee.
The observer being younger than the referee should be very rare though as Sant probably is one of the youngest observers in CL-
Cyril Zimmermann (1976) observing Mateu Lahoz (1977) in Rangers-Napoli last season also came close agewise.
DeleteThanks Philipp, I mean “experienced” can’t defined by nations but in term of age (senior-junior), I think it’s totally different, it’s more complicated and then indeed more rarely happened because I can’t imagine or how awkward if when you did thesis or doctoral presentation and then your examiner is more younger than you.
DeleteStrong attack by Union Berlin fans against UEFA with this very clear banner shown during the CL anthem...
ReplyDelete4': Jovanovic starts with a VAR intervention, disallowed goal.
ReplyDeleteThe offside was difficult, but not impossible to see. Maybe not 100% expected but a very good call in case of detection.
DeleteFirst YC, Bonucci for reckless challenge, he protested because convinced he had play ball. To me card is correct.
Typical "Italian reaction" after the card, but when Jovanovic was not looking at him. In an extremely severe approach and with player continuing, this could have caused another card.
Now YC for protests to a player from Braga. Quite challenging start for the Serbian.
Any thoughts about Frankowski in Salzburg?
ReplyDeleteI'm in the stadium; quite any easy game for the ref. Sometimes foul detection seems doubtful (45 +1).
I think good Foul detection so far and he seems to have a good connection to the Players. Wrong Penalty called now but correctly taken back after var
DeleteOT: VAR audio from Liverpool-Spurs at the weekend has been released and it is absolutely as bad as you thought it would be. However it does highlight the need for a better phraseology like "goal confirmed" or "offside confirmed"
ReplyDeletehttps://www.premierleague.com/news/3718057
Thanks for sharing!
DeleteThe technical operator seemed to be the only guy paying attention..
DeletePhraseology like that has always be standard in a lot of countries (e.g. the Netherlands, Switzerland etc.)…
DeleteSo, a very clear human mistake by England, he was too hurry in closing the check, being convinced that original decision had been GOAL and not OFFSIDE.
DeleteAlso, interesting that after the event, they try to solve it, but they decide not to intervene.
In this extra-ordinary case, maybe a technical mistake by VAR (intervening again after first wrong decision) would have been more accepted by people than leaving original wrong decision. What do you think? I know, this shouldn't be said, but this was absolutely terrible to accept. I would have prefered a big mess but then correct decision, I think there wouldn't have been an appeal against that. Or at least, there would have been less discussions...
If he had intervened eventually breaking protocol, I assure you a lot of people would have forgotten about this incident and only PGMOL will be in conversation with England, either way he would have been punished but the later would not have escalated like this because it reached the highest of the highest authority in the Premier League as well as I don’t think he could ever officiate any Liverpool match or top match now for several several years, this is a career defining and would always be his shadow… he should have intervened again more so the team he called against was already a man light with a red card.
Delete@chefren I don't know tbh, feels like there will always be some ”nerd” who will go in and check the VAR protocol and then making a big thing of it on social media and then there would be calls to replay the game due to a technical mistake
DeleteMaybe the best solution would have been to explain to the Tottenham staff the situation as soon as possible and let them decide to allow Liverpool a free goal (by not defending).
DeleteWould have been a huge sign for fair play and therefore an image boost for Tottenham and probably for the EPL in general. And it would bring a fair outcome which is totally in line with the LotG.
The withdrawn penalty for Salzburg is not a clear and obvious situation in my opinion. Yes, one can argue that the attacker steps on the goalkeeper's foot, but isn't that mostly the goalkeepers fault? I think, this has been a clear penalty for many years, but only recently (in the VAR area) this is sometimes decided against the attacker.
ReplyDeleteSo I think, this maybe needs some clarification, but until that, VAR shouldn't intervene there in both ways.
But dies the attacker fall down because of His stamp on foot or did he Not just Fall into him?
DeleteI was Not totally sure whether there would be an intervention but in my opinion penalty would have been wrong as German commentators also thought.
Hm, that's hard to say. He is not completely stable already, but IMO it seems possible that he could continue to run without the contact with the GK.
DeleteBut yes, I can accept no penalty, but I don't like the VAR intervention in such a grey area situation.
(BTW, we are listening to different German commentators again - yours are probably on Austrian TV (?). "Mine" said clear penalty before the OFR and no penalty is OK after it.)
Dazn commentators in Germany
DeleteMaybe you did watch the conference? I think that is another one :)
For me that should be a RC for Braga but perhaps not quite a clear error
ReplyDelete72': Braga YC for reckless challenge, quite close to RC for SFP. Very high point of impact with studs up but without intensity, just a touch. This saved player from sending off.
ReplyDeleteBut I would say, that a RC would be wrong. One can't only focus on point of contact and as you say the intensity was very low.
DeleteThe only reason pro RC is point of contact, all other elements are pro YC
DeleteOnly watching for some minutes, but from what I have seen, definitely not a sovereign performance by Frankowski. Body language is not convincing, too hectic.
ReplyDeleteThe very strict approach against protests continues, Jovanovic sent off somebody from the bench, called by fourth official.
ReplyDeleteEven being a Salzburg supporter I disagree. Salzburg players are frustrated by some of the ref's decisions, but apart from the douboutful VAR intervention - as Philipp mentioned - I think ot's a solid performance by the ref.
ReplyDeleteI agree in respect to decision taking, I disagree in respect to body language and sovereignty.
DeleteMissed penalty for Benfica in 29'.
ReplyDeleteClear penalty. I’m surprised there is no VAR intervention.
DeleteDoes anyone know what kind of notebook the UEFA referees use? I just saw Turpin hand out a YC to Camavinga from his left pocket and having some kind of sheet on the back side. Thanks in advance!
ReplyDeleteEasy game so far for Guida in Lens. Both teams focused on playing football. Some good advantages, rightly no YCs so far. Small point of criticism would be that he looked unsure and not firm enough after calls that were protested by players (play-on on Gabriel Jesús in 39', accidental kick in the head by Tomiyasu in 40' and wrong FK against Arsenal in 44').
ReplyDeleteSeems there hasn't been any change in how UEFA views handballs by looking at that penalty that Napoli were just awarded…
ReplyDeleteClear penalty : good VAR decision.
DeleteIf UEFA hasn't changed their way of viewing handballs it probably is, but is really anyone in football expecting a penalty in this situation? I'm not so sure
DeleteI think, an expected decision based on the UEFA line, that an arm above the body is nearly always punished.
DeleteIt's different if you're standing up and your arm is above your head. But he's almost lying down. Plus there is a deflection before. I'm not saying it's black or white decision and I understand if a referee gives the penalty. But to intervene for this? Wrong for me.
DeleteWhat a joke of OFR in Napoli. Never clear and obvious mistake. Deflection and only then handball, even the attacker didn't want a penalty.
ReplyDeleteDisagree, completely unatural hand position, good call by french crew.
DeleteDeflection and then ball touches hand,now way that's penalty.
Delete*No
DeleteAbsolutely ridiculous! No way that's a penalty except in Clemènt Turpin's world.
DeleteDisagree. Deflection but no way to have here this kind of arm position. Clearly, fault by defender for this deliberated attitude. Good call by Turpin and Brisard.
DeleteAnonymous 22:19 : Disagree with you. For me is no penalty. You don't have idea about handball rules. Sorry !
DeleteLove the level of argumentation here. 😂😂
DeleteThe disallowed Sevilla goal (direct VAR intervention without OFR) is an interesting borderline situation, whether a handball by the goalscorer is immediate or not.
ReplyDelete"immediately before the goal" would be the better wording.
Delete5 meters offside missed by AR2 in Inter-Benfica in 54'. What a blackout.
ReplyDeleteI must admit I did NOT expect to see an OFR for the handball in Napoli - Real Madrid, wonder how UEFA will assess it...
ReplyDeleteHandball rules ruins everything. Sorry !
ReplyDeleteI agree, the handball rules are confusing for refs, players, head coachs, media and fans.
DeleteSalzburg - Real Sociedad OFR
ReplyDeletehttps://streamja.com/66d25
In my opinion if we consider the possible foul by keeper, correct VAR intervention (nothing), but if we consider action by defender from behind, not a clear and obvious mistake to call this penalty.
So it should be related on which foul was punished by the Polish, nevertheless, in such situations, given that there is at least a chance for a penalty, a strict protocol would suggest to support referee.
Referee booked the keeper, clearly assessing the situation wrongly. Therefore correct intervention IMO for the second situation. (Just imagine what happened, if there was no OFR and then GK receives a second YC…) Considering the holding by the defender, play on is never a clear and obvious mistake and therefore for me absolutely correct OFR only showing the incident, that was an obvious error.
DeleteAbout Napoli - Real Madrid, expected call in Italy based on the position of the arms, but the rebound before on another part of the body raises some doubts about VAR intervention. I didn't expect the OFR, like some of you wrote, but very likely I understand more it with "Italian glasses".
ReplyDeleteStill, handballs stay as very big issue. Will never stop to say that. Never clear what a VAR should call and what not.
Possible VC - kick in the head for Benfica player in 67'. Do you think it was intentional? Only Inter's Lautaro Martinez received a YC.
ReplyDeleteDutch VARs usually call for OFR only in case of attempted murder so...
DeleteDifficult, but to me the action doesn't seem deliberate based on the context of movements and reactions. But if the referee gives a RC for VC, it probably can be supported.
DeleteBut maybe one could still evaluate the action as reckless?
Correct PK for Galatasaray + 2YC for Casemiro by Kruzliak.
ReplyDeleteEasy call. Good game for him other than him getting in the way twice
DeleteTo me RC; it's clear DOGSO
DeleteYes F, but you must consider it as genuine attempt to play ball, so YC and not RC.
DeletePenalty in Eindhoven. Looks more like a slip to me
ReplyDeletePenalty for PSV given by Orsato, very difficult to assess. For me rather no penalty as the attacker was falling over the defender rather than being fouled. Correct by the VAR to support Orsato.
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree.
DeleteBut also the defender can't really complain, because he mistimes the tackle and somehow does trip the attacker.
Hot end of the match for Orsato. Bade's yellow card could also have been red? many protests
ReplyDeleteI don't think so. Yes, it is quite dangerous due to the speed of the situation, but it doesn't meet the usual SFP criteria and the tackle is also clearly targeted at the ball.
DeleteNever a penalty for me in Naples. Cann’t see why it was called for OFR, it’s so close hands natural position and there is a deflection. Should have been rejected by Turpin
ReplyDeleteThe handball in Naples. To be honest, if this incident happened between two British teams, it wouldn’t have been called. Probably neither in NL or Germany?
ReplyDeleteHere, we have an Italian team and potentially it would be a scandal if it wasn’t called. Turpin and his VAR know that. For the same reason, most referees don’t whistle a penalty against an Italian side unless it is ultra clear.
Hate to say it, but you can call it ‘smart refereeing’ by Turpin, especially when the decision didn’t affect the end result (Madrid won). Consistency with regard to handlings is an illusion.
This is becoming a big problem. Italian teams shouldn’t be able to just dictate who they get etc
DeleteItalian teams and PSG. Reality is, referee are aware that it can affect their career. They get a special treatment by the Refcom if they had a weak(er) or controversial game with an Italian side
DeleteNot WITH an Italian side, only AGAINST an Italian side
DeleteTrue
DeleteFor making these statements, you should be sure that in case of similar situation in the other area, VAR wouldn't have called referee. That's, of course, unacceptable to say... the problem can be the handball rule, but surely not the Italian influence on it. Committee gives their guidelines.
DeleteSo what you are writing here.
DeleteIf Mr Turpin did not give the PK is uefa career might not go very far .Really ! .What a really ridiculous statement to make .
The problem is, it depends who is involved and who the VAR officials are and where they are from. It really shouldn’t. Irrati probably intervenes but no chance Stuart Attwell does. Would have liked to see Turpin reject it
DeleteSpanish media heavily disagreed with the penalty to PSV. Dutch media also called it ‘soft’ and lucky.
ReplyDeleteSure, Irrati is a very conservative VAR and will always try to support Orsato as much as possible. This is just a groupstage game, thus there won’t be a big aftermath (Sevilla still has plenty of chances to qualify), however if such incidents happen at later stages (QF-SF-F) of the UCL, there should be room for a “re-refereeing” VAR intervention imo. Compare it to, for instance, the OFR in Gil Manzano’s semi-final last season. We need a bit more flexibility in some cases. VMO’s like Irrati or Van Boekel are always hiding behind protocols for my taste. Arguments like ‘no clear and obvious mistake’ or ‘there is a small contact’ - should we buy that if >80% prefers no PK?
For my taste ">80% prefer no PK" should not be enough.
Delete">80% think, it's a clear mistake" or ">95% prefer no PK" however should be.
But the most important thing is consistency regarding the barrier for intervention. And differences between individual VARs or between stages of the competition or between minutes of the game don't help with that. I think, in a situation like yesterday, UEFA should clearly communicate (internally), whether the VAR should have intervened or not and why.
Of course, there is no chance for complete consistency, because those e.g. 80% can't be precisely calculated, but there always is some subjectivity involved.
I think UEFA will support VAR’s decision yesterday - not in the first place because it were Irrati and Orsato - but if sth similar happens in a semi-final, VAR supports and it is a decisive goal, I think it would be a scandal. Interesting discussion about barriers for intervention
DeleteRamos stated after the match that he didn’t touch the player at all. After rewatching the incident again, I think he is right. Player slipped. Should be enough room for intervention?
DeleteHere the possible penalty for Benfica:
ReplyDeletehttps://streamff.com/v/350XNlItgy
In my opinion not a very clear one, I would say that Benfica player seems already falling by himself and contact with opponent is not so significant, penalty confirmed only if whistled by referee, but for me noVAR stuff.
Didn't watch the possible violent conduct, will do that soon.
Chefren, what is your opinion on Orsato’s Pk? Is there a contact?
DeleteFind the answer below!
DeleteSecond incident from Makkelie game:
https://streamable.com/13n2ay
Impossible to say it was deliberate, no elements.
Correct by VAR to support, only in case of RC shown by Makkelie, rather after an adivce by Lindhout I would say, because this was difficult to see directly by him, VAR would have supported the decision of deliberate violent conduct.
Not deliberate imo, based on the context. Player is getting up, looks in the other direction, he can’t see his opponent hence not a VC. If not a VC, is it reckless or careless? I’m not sure, but from a management perspective a YC to both players could be the optimal decision here
DeletePSV - Sevilla
ReplyDeleteDisallowed goal for handball by scorer:
https://streamable.com/w4mf5z
Penalty to PSV, confirmed by VAR:
https://streamable.com/3z3258
Possible RC for SFP:
https://streamable.com/cmk7en
The hanbdall is very particular and absurd situation I would, say. If the player had kept his arm in rather natural position without closing them into the chest, he wouldn't have committed handball and he would have controlled ball by body (I think), but here the extremely harsh aspect of the rule was correctly applied. I think that who wrote that, should reflect on this incident.
Penalty looks a mistake, but VAR without the evidence that there was a minimum touch, so Orsato was supported. I think that this was nothing, Orsato rewatching it wouldn't whistle.
The possible RC, for me OK YC.
It is interesting to point out that only in international games Orsato is seen so active with VAR, it is weird to say, but since a long time (months) in serie A and B (mostly serie A because he doesn't officiate in serie B), he is always supported for all decisions he takes. He never sees a VAR intervention in his games. Don't remember his last OFR. But then when international games, all seems to return "normal"...
Would you say, that the situation with the disallowed goal is a clear case?
DeleteI mean, it's 4 seconds between handball and goal - does that really have to count as immediate?
(Meant as an open question, not as my opinion)
The penalty is tricky: In the first two replays it looks like a clear mistake with the attacker just slipping and one would expect the VAR to step in.
[Actually my live thought was: Oh, two crucial mistakes by Orsato with VAR correction - will he be punished?]
But in the third one (83:50), I think, one can see a clear contact, that seems to be relevant for the fall. And once the VAR sees that angle, it becomes hard to intervene, I think.
I agree that the disallowed goal for handball is not a clear case due to timing, and in my opinion Irrati went with the "Italian" point of view. A handball is always punished with the maximum of severity, even when in doubt. I don't know what another VAR might have done.
DeleteSo it at least wasn't a factual decision and Orsato should have taken the decision in an OFR, right?
DeleteYes, I think so, better to invite Orsato, but in this case (no immediate before goal) it wouldn't have been a punishable handball :)
DeleteWell Kruzliak being good in a challenging game like Manchester United - Galatasaray and getting the big call right seems definitely something very important to underline! I think the Slovakian can definitely now raise the bar of his appointments. Glad that so far he recovered from an extremely poor (to say it kindly) period in past.
ReplyDeleteThe penalty call was certainly easy, but still good a good presentation for referee.
Video:
https://streamable.com/igs2v9
Technically, still a genuine attempt to play ball, but in such scenario with that tackle be sure that only aim of defender is to stop attacker and nothing else, but we can't question on it. :)
I was surprized when I saw the sonorous appointment assigned to Kruzliak but at the same time happy reading now that he is performed well in a expected challenging match. Do you see chance for him to attend EURO 2024 ? Frankly speaking before today I didn't expect him in Germany next june, but now.....
DeleteCan you not make an argument for DOGSO here? The defender on the far side is not even moving towards the play and Lindelöf I think is also to far away to challenge. So a yellow card for deliberate attempt might actually be the correct decision
DeleteKruzliak is one of the not so many referees "saved" by Rosetti. I am glad that the Italian didn't give up on him. Kruzliak had some good appointments also last season and performed fairly well. For now, I see other names ahead of him for Euro but he is still in the run for Euro 2024 nonetheless. It's worth keeping an eye on his future appointments and especially who will observe him in them.
DeleteYeah fully agree on the fact that there are many names ahead of him but I guess that all of them do not reach the target to have 18 referees. If no females and no officials from Comnebol, Kruzliak is now a strong candidate to complete the pool.
DeleteWho can be ahead of him in the lost for Euro 2024: let me bet: Soares Dias, Gil Manzano, Letexier, Turpin, Oliver, Taylor, Makkelie, Nyberg, Zwayer, Orsato, Vincic, Kovacs. Probably he will battle with Massa, Jovanovic, Siebert, Peljito Sanchez Martinez and Sharer in case of recovery.
Concerning the penalty, I have re-watched the episode and I would say that at least is borderline between yellow and red, because the foul happened close to the box spot (11 m), nobody was between the attacker and the keeper, the attacker was running or shooting in the door and personally I don't see Casemiro so much soft in his intervention. In his shoes I would extracted the red one, but absolutely no mistake
Straight red/ second YC makes no difference. Both result in the player going off and missing one game
DeleteAs he wasn't mentioned so far: Good performance by Grinfeeld in a rather easy game (including two YCs for kicking the ball away after a whistle).
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