Thursday, 3 May 2018

Europa League 2017/18 - Semifinals Second Legs - Gianluca Rocchi & Sergey Karasev (discussion)

You can continue here the discussion about Europa League games. 
03.05.2018, 21:05 CET
Estadio Metropolitano, Madrid (ESP)
Club Atlético de Madrid - Arsenal FC
Referee: Gianluca Rocchi (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Elenito Di Liberatore (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Mauro Tonolini (ITA)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Paolo Valeri (ITA)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
4th Official: Alessandro Costanzo (ITA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Jaap Uilenberg (NED)
UEFA Delegate: Wolfgang Thierrichter (AUS)

03.05.2018, 21:05 CET
Stadion Salzburg, Salzburg (AUT)
FC Salzburg - Olympique de Marseille 
Referee: Sergey Karasev (RUS)
Assistant Referee 1: Anton Averyanov (RUS)
Assistant Referee 2: Tikhon Kalugin (RUS)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Sergey Lapochkin (RUS)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Sergei Ivanov (RUS)
Fourth Official: Igor Demeshko (RUS)
UEFA Referee Observer: Eugen Strigel (GER)
UEFA Delegate: Jim Stjerne Hansen (DEN)

29 comments:

  1. Reply to Teo's last comment in the thread :

    Maybe for UEFA observers we will have more than 2 expected level performances... We never know how many of our interpretations match with theirs... I can't say anything more at this moment :/

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  2. After what has happened today in Salzburg, we must sadly say that on this season we saw the most controversial semifinals of both CL and EL that I can remember in recent times.
    Now it is not only a question about VAR, in Salzburg it wouldn't have been allowed to correct a wrong corner kick decision.
    We definitely expected more and I'm really than disappointed.
    We will remember these KO stages forever.

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    Replies
    1. Even the football at times in some of the games was more than crazy and frantic... Definitely a memorable KO stage in all aspects!!

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  3. Teo 3 May 2018 at 23:43
    One mistake lead to another... If Karasev whistled PK (and VAR would help him), there probably wouldn't be overtime and this second mistake. He could get 8.4 and now he is 7.4 or below (well, I don't really now is wrong corner after which team scored is considered as a crucial mistake...). Nevertheless, the damage is big, so are the protests.

    = = =

    ”A deduction of -0.2 should be made on the referee’s/assistant referee’s/fourth official’s mark if that official’s clearly incorrect decision indirectly results in one of the following outcomes:
    - An incorrect free kick which results in a goal.
    - A missed free kick which results in a goal.
    - An incorrectly awarded corner which results in a goal.
    - An incorrectly made assessment of an offside which indirectly leads to a goal or that a goal is disallowed.”

    And it's not sure whether Karasov will be deemed as responsible for that wrong corner kick as it happened at the side of AR, AAR and 4O (who had the best view possible if you ask me).

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    Replies
    1. If Karasev is held responsible for the call, then it's a 7.7 for him??

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    2. Nope. 7.9 and -0.2 from overall mark. He was okayish overall, but it wasn't a polished performance either (Berisha should've been booked for PI, the style that inflames hot moments instead of calming things down). 7.9 (8.0/1) for my taste.

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    3. Thanks, Ray. But, you know, mark is only a mark. -0.2 for wrong corner which results as goal is OK in some less important match, it is OK when it doesn't influence the outcome of the match and in many other situations. It might be OK even if it happened somewhere in the first half, but not in second overtime... This is not ordinary situation - this mistake directly decided who is going to the final. The significance of this mistake is very, very big, so would be the consequences for Karasev (most probably). This mistake(s) of him would be remembered by the Committee, even if he gets 7.9. I feel sorry for him and his team, but that's the case.

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    4. Yeah, sure. There are mistakes and MISTAKES.

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    5. IIRC, there was a Fenerbahce - Benfica match when after a wrong corner-kick Fenerbahce scored. The observer reduced the final mark by -0.3.

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    6. If the mark is 8,5≤ then you lose 0,3 points
      If the mark is 8,4≥ then you lose 0,2 points
      IIRC :-)

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    7. Is there such a guideline, Michael? Because it seems that i didn't receive it.

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    8. The mark for Karasiov should be not more than 7.8 which it's mean, that overal perfomance was in area 8.1-8.2 (without important mistake).

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  4. I have a suggestion about VAR protocol: corner kicks should be added, but only in case a goal is directly scored following a clear wrong corner kick decision.
    This is objective like offside, and different from free kicks.
    VAR should be allowed to intervene in case of clearly wrong corner kicks leading to a goal, this kind of incident can happen at WC in Russia.
    However, there would be a problem, once disallowed a goal, how to resume game? My suggestion is: dropped ball by referee, because it would be impossible to go back and to assign the goal kick instead of the wrong corner.

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    Replies
    1. Why not a goal kick? If you are allowing a decision to be changed after the restart why not go back to the correct decision?

      What happens if the VAR has enough time to check the replay and see that it should not have been a corner, before it is taken? Almost pointless for the attacking team to take the cross the ball into the box as it can't be a goal.

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    2. Because, differently from all the other situations in which VAR is allowed to intervene, in that case there would be a very particular action: changing a decision before the resume of the game. This, according to VAR protocol, shouldn't be possible. All the VAR interventions are possible only when there is a continuity of game, so this wont be allowed...

      About the second question: the main motto of VAR is "Minimum interference". We can't definitely question on every corner kick, this would affect the power and the authority of referee on the pitch. So, only in case of goal directly scored and penalties assigned after a wrong corner, there could be this intervention.

      Of course, only my opinion....

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    3. This is an untenable suggestion.

      How long after the corner kick would a scored “goal” prompt a review of that corner? Last night’s goal was directly scored. But what about a goal 10 seconds after a corner? 20 seconds? 45 seconds and with no loss of possession?

      Also, if you can review restarts after goals are scored, why not throw-ins in the attacking third? And then why not incorrectly awarded DFKs that result in goals?

      I’m sorry, but this just doesn’t work.

      I have a great, great, great fear that everyone thinks technology can solve all problems. And an even bigger fear that as we pursue an unachievable officiating perfection, we are ignoring the fact that we are changing the way the sport if played, coached, and watched. The world loves football and that love has grown for over a century. I fear that growth will not continue once we are fully done with VAR implementation.

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    4. If you add the corner kick into the VAR protocol, you should add also the goal kick decisions, becouse in the case of the incorrect goal kick, some of the team have possibility to say, that probably the corner is his chance to score a goal.

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  5. I repost this from the predictions thread regarding Rocchi performance:

    From my point of view, I would not appoint Rocchi in UEL and think it would be unfair to give him UCL final. His performances in KO stage have been free from crucial mistakes, but that does not mean they have been good enough to grant him such honor. There were mistakes in Real Madrid - PSG regarding card management and foul detection, and some of these mistakes happened again tonight specially in the card management area, IMO, with missed cards for Gabi and Griezmann.

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    Replies
    1. Do you really think that appointing Rocchi for the UCL final is unfair?? His performance was really good, absolutely the best in all EL and CL semifinals. Mazic and Rocchi are the only two who deserve the finals.

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    2. If we speak honestly, far the best performance was from Turpin in those semis.
      I find it very interesting that (for me) bothgood referee performances occurred in a clash between Arsenal and Atletico.

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    3. Turpin has improved a lot, no doubt about that. Personally I prefered Rocchi, but it's just my point of view. Who are your favourite names for the finals then?

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    4. I agree with Teo, for me Turpin was better in a far more challenging game. Or at least, with much more pressure from the benches. Yes, I think it would be unfair given we have the option of Mazic available.

      And also, even if he was the second best in these semifinals, that was not something difficult to achieve in these circumstances, TBH. Not making any crucial mistake already put him on that position even though, as I said, I didn't like that much his performance in some aspects.

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  6. It seems that today we won't see the names for the finals. Will have to be patient at least until Monday?! What does this mean - The Committee has some doubts? They will wait for all reports?

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  7. Diego Simeone is suspended for 4 matches and has to pay 10,000€ after his bad behavior toward Turpin.

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  8. Meler awarded two correct penalties in the first half of U17 opener, England - Israel. Otherwise a calm first half.

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  9. OT: International friendlies appointments

    Algeria - Saudi Arabia (9/05/2018 19:30)
    Referee: Juan Martínez Munuera (ESP)
    AR1: Raúl Cabañero Martínez (ESP)
    AR2: Miguel Martínez Munuera (ESP)
    FO: Ricardo de Burgos Bengoetxea (ESP)

    Luxembourg - Senegal (31/05/2018 20:00)
    Referee: Xavier Estrada Fernández (ESP)
    AR1: Xavier Aguilar Rodríguez (ESP)

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