Second EURO 2020 semifinal in London between England and Denmark, the following officials have been nominated by committee to handle it.
ENGLAND - DENMARK
Referee: Danny Makkelie (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Hessel Steegstra (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Jan de Vries (NED)
Fourth Official: Ovidiu Haţegan (ROU)
Fifth Official: Sebastian Eugen Gheorghe (ROU)
Video Assistant Referee: Pol van Boekel (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee 1: Kevin Blom (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee 2: Christian Gittelmann (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee 3: Pawel Gil (POL)
UEFA Referee Observer: Roberto Rosetti (ITA)
UEFA Delegate:
FO Hategan, VAR: Van Boekel
ReplyDeleteAs expected. Once again Rosetti should resign right away.
ReplyDeleteDisastrous stuff from UEFA
ReplyDeleteWhy?
DeleteWell done to Danny Makkelie, deserved appointment.
ReplyDeleteUEFA are just taking the p*ss out of Haţegan (R16, QF and SF as f/o), Çakır (travelled to London FROM Istanbul only to go back there). Sad :/
Makkelie is a good ref, but he made errors during the tournament: mistaken no-penalty in the opening game, mistaken no-YCs in RUS-FIN, his ARs made mistakes. I'm just interested, why you think this appointment is deserved?
DeleteAnd disallowed goal when the ball crossed the goalline (Pprtugal vs Serbia)
Delete@AR1
DeleteTURITA and FINRUS were overall okay / good, with a partly messy use of cards (especially in the latter), but overall I would say they were on a 8,3 / 7 level.
I really can't get too animated about the assessed missed penalty in TURITA and De Vries corrected call in FINRUS, to be honest.
ENGGER was a very good performance. I don't know if he deserves more than referee x and so on, but in general, I wouldn't say that Makkelie doesn't deserve it.
The problem is the predeterminedness of it all, so it would be deserved 'by accident', if you know what I mean.
Got your view. Thank you!
DeleteTreatment of Cakir is scandalous.
ReplyDelete- Two last games for Dutch officials
- 3/4 (in case advance) English games in KO stage with Dutch
- 3/4 (in case advance) Denmark games in KO stage with Dutch (overall 4/7)
- Makkelie again on Wembley after ENG-GER
- Van Boekel with SF and F
Why Hategan or Cakir didn't get for example Eng-Ukr instead Brych?
DeleteWhy Cakir travelled to London?
Only possible explanation is that Makkelie will be saved for first semifinal and Italy rejected this appointment and Cakir (maybe saved for second semifinal) is out due lack of trust by Ceferin...
I haven't seen worse tournament management on refereeing than EURO 2020. IMO even Brych and Kuipers wouldn't like the management.
ReplyDeleteCertainly!
DeleteTo me the interesting question is who will be f/o in the final.
ReplyDeleteI think Rapallini and Siebert are the most likely options (Brych or Makellie as outside options since they are in London for sure)
Karasev will be the FO.
DeleteRapallini and Siebert are at home.
DeleteAren't there any other Dutch guys there for sixth, seventh,tenth official? Some relatives of Kuipers maybe..
DeleteSiebert is now at home in Berlin.
DeleteOne Dutch fan from the stadium,lot of options haha
DeleteSiebert has no chance. Wrong red card in Wales vs Denmark and missed offside call by his team. WIll be Kuipers or Karasav for the final. Likely kuipers
DeleteIs Cakir already back in Turkey ? Could he act at 4th official in the final ?
DeleteYes, Çakir going back home.
DeleteFernando Rapallini was the 4th Official in the BEL-ITA QF match, in which at least 3-4 more minutes of extra time should have been played.
DeleteMy perception is next- good decision by Uefa for Makeille. At least, if we have excellent officiating, its not important who is referee. But, much worse is becouse all media in England and Netherlands, also Turkey know what happened with appointments. That is something that is , it's brutal to say, but it is Shameful. Ok, we have best officiating ever at Euros, nobody speak about referees(only refereeing experts). But things like this.... I still believe that comitee will surprise us with final name.
ReplyDeleteWell, that's just it - it sounds like a joke.
ReplyDeleteAre we really going to continue yesterday’s poor line of commenting through today?
ReplyDeleteYou all made very, very, very clear what you think of UEFA, Rosetti, Ceferin, Cakir, Kuipers, Makkelie etc etc.
Opinions heard and taken, filling again an entire post with the same repetitive, often poor quality comments I think is quite pathetic.
I would recommend to read one of the last comments in the closed post, posted by Philipp S. One of the highest quality and most sensible comments in recent (troubled) blog times.
The sole topic of this post is the second semi final appointment - people are entitled to give their view on the build up / issues. I’d suggest if you don’t like the poor commentary, you don’t read it. No one is forcing you to?
DeleteI’d say congratulations to Makkelie - in a way the very clear issues around the appointments are not his fault and a shame they impact his appointment
Everybody is entitled to comment on whatever they wish to. And I guess I’m entitled to offer my opinion on the quality of comments and the quality of yesterday’s thread in general.
DeleteI’m perfectly okay with discussing the SF appointments including build up and issues, but I can’t get excited about reading the same, often emotional and cynical, comments over and over and over again during the entire day. And this morning I had the feeling the same was about to happen. In my humble opinion that’s not contributing to the quality of the blog as a whole.
What is contributing to the quality of the blog are analytical comments like the one I referred to in my 1st post. But today I saw some more, e.g. Philipp’s (at 12:31) and also your comment (at 14:18). My issue with your suggestion to not read the commentary then is evident, I would miss out on those comments.
Explicitly, I guess my comment was aimed to not see yesterday’s thread repeated today, having to read around the many repetitive, emotional and cynical comments before coming to the ones which really matter.
Dutch referee, what I found cynical is that you don't find a problem about the Committee and even more cynical is the statement that these comments do'really matter.
DeleteDutch referee, what I found cynical is that you don't find a problem about the Committee and even more cynical is the statement that these comments don't really matter.
DeleteI think the appointment for Makkelie is justified. Undoubtedly, he has grown to the top 3 of referees in Europe in the last seasons. He had a strong season, without much mistakes and did well. For him, a deserved appointment.
ReplyDeleteI had hoped for a semi-final for Hategan. This match would have been perfect in my opinion.
I have some hope that Cakir will be at least fourth official in the final. Kuipers and he worked together more often. I think that after WC2018, where Kuipers was really strong but got less than Cakir (who got a semi, whereas Kuipers only got 4OF appointments in the (semi-)finals) so it's maybe not unjustified to give Kuipers the reverse role this time.
Only, and we should be realistic, it was not the strongest tournament of Kuipers. Of course he did well, without big mistakes. The penalty in SVK - ESP wasn't such a clear mistake in my opinion, and the cornerkick turned out to be justified, so in general he did well.
And in general, we should say refereeing has been really good. Few big mistakes, in general a clear line from good referees. But it's clear that Kuipers wasn't in the top 5 this time. So he deserves the crown on his work I think, if he'd get the final, cause I do think it's allowed to take this in consideration, but some referees would be justified to feel bad.
I think Brych's treatment is most strange. Why 2 games so short after each other? Just strange, and not nice for Brych as well.
So, in short: good appointment for Makkelie, who deserved it. But the appointments were a bit strange and Hategan really deserved more.
Cakir can't participate anymore. He is already in Turkey.
DeleteRicB, I agree with you that undoubtedly Makkelie has made a good progress the last 2 seasons. But saying that he had a season without much mistakes for me is not criterium for anything. To be a great referee you have to show also high human qualities and leadership - like Orsato and Lahoz in the latest CL finals and Taylor in the Eriksen's accident. Or Cakir during the most of his career. And IMO Makkelie is still far away from these names. So to say that he is in top 3 for me is much exaggerated and shows a cheerleading attitude towards a countryman (if I am not wrong with guessing your nationality)
DeleteIt has nothing to do with cheerleading. Of course, I like to see Dutch referees do well. But I don't think the management of Makkelie is worse than that of Orsato, Lahoz and Taylor and for me personally, I like the style of Makkelie much more. For me Makkelie is without a doubt in the top 3 of Europe at this moment. You can of course disagree with that (Kuipers isn't in the top 3 for me at this moment), it's only my vision and I think I argumented well why I think that.
DeleteIt's not only mistakes - that makes complete sense - but if that's all you read in my answer, I suggest you read it again.
Definitely Cakir in his best days did better than Makkelie now. But at this moment, I think Makkelie does his matches in general better dan Cakir. Just my opinion.
@3303
DeleteIt’s obvious you begrudge Makkelie a semifinal and that’s no problem, your opinion. I for me don’t agree with your arguments as in my opinion Makkelie is one of the very few with exactly those skills you state he’s lacking: strong leadership and communication skills.
Accusing RikB of showing cheerleader attitude simply because he could be Dutch is a little sad. So as a Dutch he can’t express his opinion on other Dutch referees? Apart from that, how much you might dislike Makkelie and how much you might disagree, UEFA clearly is on RikB’s side here. I think we’ve all seen the appointments in the last CL seasons and Makkelie clearly belongs to the top 5 trusted referees.
RikB, the remark about the countryman's cheerleading was just an innocent joke. 100% it was not meant to be an insult. As you could see I agreed with you about the progress of Makkelie even that I don't like his style at all - find him too distant and arrogant. Of course you are completely entitled to have an opinion which I respect. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
DeleteThank you, apologies accepted. I imagine that you could experience his style as such, even if I don't.
DeleteRapallini for final match?
ReplyDeleteHe can watch it on TV at home. He is already at home.
DeleteFinal prediction Kuipers with del Cerro as fourth official if not Spain, otherwise Karasev.
ReplyDeleteI hope Karasev. He will deserve it ! Not CdC IMO Who're not convincing in GS.
DeleteKarasev is already FO in the ST Italy Spain
DeleteBrych and Makkelie have not deserved a semi final. Kuipers has not deserved a final. It has been a little more difficult for UEFA with Italy and England qualifying, but for me Kuipers should have got a semi final, Cakir should get the final (he won’t) and Taylor the other semi final. Obviously Taylor can’t do it because of England’s progression so I would say Karasev deserved it. Anyway, it just shows that there are very few referees that Rosetti trusts
ReplyDeleteThe number one favourite of the Committee gets it as expected : Makkelie is their king for the next ten years. Cakir did not get a 1/4 or 1/2 final in CL this year neither. So, the politics that existed then (March to May 2021), just continue during this tournament. UEFA Referee Committee 's management of human beings is extremely poor. As a lawyer, I find it not acceptable anymore that in this 21st century, public cannot know the reasons of Committee for their designations. This is against all legal rules and against the European Convention for protecting of Human Rights. I am sorry for the big words on this blog, but some in depth journalism should be done by European press (which generally is not interested at all in referees ; that is certainly the case in my hometown Belgium).
ReplyDeleteYes, I feel very stupid to be honest.
DeleteBrych, Kuipers, just kept being reappointed in CL despite subpar performances; it was incredibly naïve to believe that it would be any different at this EURO.
Belgian+UEFArefobserver, a fantastic comment, absolutely echoing my thoughts. It is unbelievable the lack of transperancy with all the referees' connected matters in a sphere like football with so much people and money involved. It really looks like a secret organization which is absolutely unaccountable in front of anybody. It is absolutely unacceptable and against the basic principles of the EU.
DeleteUEFA's failure to discuss its assignments publicly is a violation of European Convention on Human Rights? That's new... I am curious what article exactly could be violated.
DeleteIn fact, I would consider it pretty poor leadership style to publicly communicate reasons for referees' leaving. This is something that should be discussed internally with the referees concerned.
There is European legal background for disrespectful treatment @ Malte M. I can assure you. Now, Mr Cakir has of course not been tortured, but morer good lawyers could make a case of this. But the Maw 5 is no legal blog, so I will stop here @ Chefren
Delete*Law 5
DeleteIf UEFA has (probably) no problem with two Dutch referees in the last three matches, it raises more questions, why Makkelie hasn't been appointed for ITA-ESP. The only counter-argument is the handball in the opening match, but otherwise it would have avoided Makkelie having ENG again & 2-3 Dutch referees in a row for DEN & only 2 rest days for Brych.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore there would have been more alternatives for ENG-DEN: First of all Cakir, but here also a "smaller name" like Karasev or Hategan would seem more possible - even Brych would have had one more rest day, if appointed there.
If you switched the appointments, Brych would’ve had England for two knockout stage games in a row.
DeleteWhat a repetition !! He refreed for England against Germany in r16 and now he is the refree for England in semi !! I think Europe needs to give trust to more refrees because the trusted ones are very few and this will cause tragedy very soon .
ReplyDeleteI expect Makkelie will get CL Playoff 2 legs, 6 GS games, 2KO, 2QF and F next year.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Kuipers will be the observer at final.
DeleteI will not be surprised if someone will get his second CL finals in the future. This "one final per referee" rule will be abolished.
DeleteCeferin fired Collina in 2018. And he took over the UEFA referee committee. Then, he made that Puppet Rosetti president. And after Collina the problems started. UEFA has never been so unfair. Ceferin's farm.
ReplyDeletePuoi insultare perché ti nascondi dietro un nome anonimo. Abbi il coraggio di farti conoscere.
DeleteYes, I agree with the above poster that too much of the talk in the last 48 hours has been of politics and not refereeing. We can discuss 5 games being too much for Brych yes - but this doesn't account for some changes to original plans that may have occurred due to for example a country (Italy with Makkelie or Cakir) having reservations back to committee .. Taylor unable to do a semi-final, with committee banking on a Germany win - potentially likewise with Del Grande. I wonder about ages of the bloggers...
ReplyDeleteWhat we can say for sure is that Brych was a candidate for the final from the beginning due to his illustrious (mostly faultless - lets ignore the ghost goal!) career. He was probably given a QF instead of the final (at -that- time) due to his indifferent performance in POR-BEL.
For my part, he did 'well' not fantastic - but well in a frantic and intense game - games most of us on here can only dream of understanding from a fitness / mental PoV. The analysis here was one that took some of us back and was unexpected. To maintain the integrity of this blog, please admins, have thoughts as to the perception of the reader when analyses include 'two missed' reds. Both challenges referred to were reckless at best. At worst, Brych was guilty of applying the 'contact' directive of Rosetti a little too leniently; 2-3 advantages were not recommended.
In short, we have four of the five best referees remaining, and performance principle has also been maintained: Kuipers, Brych, Makkelie, Taylor (Cakir was exemplary and hugely unfortunate). A final note - Talk of Hategan and Rapallini was premature, both unable to meet standard of the above referees ..Siebert has a huge future!
There is only one great referee for UEFA: Kuipers
Deleteand
Trainee Kuipers: Makkelie :)
Philipp makes a very good point - Rosetti scored a huge own goal in the post-GS press conference.
ReplyDeleteHe was obviously so eager to declare that the officials did miss a penalty in TURITA, imply that Blom was / would be punished etc, that he immediately disqualified Makkelie from this ITAESP SF. And now we know the mess that's followed.
It should be a joke to say that the most important person in UEFA refereeing (no, not Čeferin!) is more interested in his PR in the media at home than sporting fairness - but it is not a joke at all.
IMO it s funny, Turpin and Lahoz after their mistatkes came back to home. Makkelie made the same mistake after First match and he gets semifinal. It s funny. When was situation, Where he didnt see goal in Portugal- Serbia, his assisent was guilt, he didnt see a penalty, guilty is his VAR. If Kuipers will get final after very very poor Tournament it will be not fair for Cakir, Hategan, Rapallini and Karasev.
ReplyDeleteAgree with the point of fairness you raised, although IMO the no penalty decision in ITA-TUR was supportable, and I also do not think Kuipers was "very very poor". The world is filled with unfairness, this reflected heavily on referees' appointments. Never stop.
DeleteOf course we can discuss fairness in the appointments, but what is fair to some can be unfair to others.
DeleteMatio mentions a final for Kuipers would be unfair to Rapallini and Karasev, but Rapallini used no less than 3 on-field reviews and Karasev 1 (for an open situation though). So Matio, you want to see Makkelie go (like Mateu and Turpin) after a mistake in his first match, but you still consider Rapallini and Karasev as candidates for the final?
I fail to see how that would be fair?
I could see Cakir treated unfair, the other ones not so much tbh.
Lahoz is a very good referee. But he never managed a CL final as the Spanish teams were so successful in the champions league. Last year, there was no Spanish team in the final, everyone was waiting for him for the final. But Rosetti appointed his countryman Orsato for the CL final. Even this state, we can understand how the UEFA refereeing committee has been mismanaged.
ReplyDeleteI can't really comment on that anymore... Makkelie - as a person and as a referee - deserves this assignment, but something feels very wrong about it.
ReplyDeleteI think that there were different plans, but Orsato and Taylor weren't possible anymore and obviously Cakir wasn't possible anymore as well. A pitty that the same names are repeated over and over again.
I think Makalele is in 2nd SF, because Brych is saved for the Final.
ReplyDeleteBrych as 4th official maximum
DeleteI have to agree that Rosetti, the commision and their’s management of this EURO is a big disgrace. They fu..ed up so many referees at this tournament…
ReplyDeleteFinal: Kupiers (source: world.refereeing)
ReplyDeleteYes an their source is one media group. Let's wait comitee
DeleteI agree with most readers here that Cakir should have had one of the last three games, but that does not mean this is undeserved for Makkelie. He's a very talented referee, had a great season and tournament and this appointment is completely justified.
ReplyDeleteFor me, it would have been better to appoint him in ITA-SPA and Cakir in this match, but unfortunately that didn't happen
Absolutely, Makkelie appointment for one SF game is deserved and logical, considering which teams qualified and previous appointments. And he is one of the best at the moment, no doubt about that. I would also prefer him for ITA-SPA, but after Rosetti's Press conference and his peculiar interest in Italy appointments...
DeleteThe problem is with Brych and Kuipers fixed appointments and poor mangement of other referees, as discussed extensively in previous post.
Forlan: Absolutelly agree.
Delete5 July 2021
ReplyDeleteBrazil – Peru
Referee: Roberto Tobar (CHI, photo)
Assistant Referee 1: Christian Schiemann (CHI)
Assistant Referee 2: Claudio Rios (CHI)
Fourth Official: Alexis Herrera (VEN)
Reserve AR: Edwar Saavedra (BOL)
VAR: Derlis Lopez (PAR)
AVAR 1: Eber Aquino (PAR)
AVAR 2: Milciades Saldivar (PAR)
Referee Assessor: Ubaldo Aquino (PAR)
6 July 2021
Argentina – Colombia
Referee: Jesus Valenzuela (VEN)
Assistant Referee 1: Carlos Lopez (VEN)
Assistant Referee 2: Jorge Urrego (VEN)
Fourth Official: Juan Soto (VEN)
Reserve AR: Byron Romero (ECU)
VAR: Julio Bascunan (CHI)
AVAR 1: Cristian Garay (CHI)
AVAR 2: Eduardo Cardozo (PAR)
Referee Assessor: Enrique Caceres (PAR)
For the outside observer, here you can ask the same question as in UEFA, why the appointments are not swapped:
DeleteTobar had BRA in GS, Valenzuela had ARG in GS, BRA eliminated CHI in QF.
Furthermore with my limited knowledge, I would have thought, that ARG-COL is the more difficult match on paper and Tobar the more experienced and eminent referee. So even that would support a swap.
And the Chilean VARs not working with Tobar also seems strange.
But probably also some politics behind it...
And to add Tobar had Brasil-Peru as Copa America final in the last edition. Can be a supportive argument for you Philipp's point, but also a reason for the appointment
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeletePhillip: Perhaps Colombia - Argentina is seen as the big test for Valenzuela. CONMEBOL needs to send other refereee besides Tovar to the World Cup. If Valenzuela can prove himself here, maybe he will be one of them.
DeleteOr maybe the committee just thought each referee was a better fit for this match. I watched Valenzuela in Argentina - Paraguay and thought that he did a good job and that he was quite talented.
AFTER THAT, HOW WILL UEFA TELL OTHER REFEREES THAT WE ARE FAIR?
ReplyDeleteHOW WILL UEFA MOTIVATE THEM FOR SUCCESS?
You seem to have accidentally left your caps lock button on.
DeleteI follow this blog for a few years now. And I am shocked that a lot of readers (whose opinion I respect a lot) don't know that in european refereeing there is a lot of politics. All the claims for transparency and more performance / less politics are really for the people that don't want to hear or wishfull thinking.
ReplyDeleteWith all the assignments of big matches (also within FIFA) there is a big part of politics. Finals divided between continental federations, CL/EL final assignments based first on the country and secondly on the performance. It is of all times and I don't see this change quickly.
On topic: congratulations to Makkelie and his team for achieving this milestone in his young carrier.
So either there are a lot of new readers on the blog that don't know much about european refereeing, or a lot of readers
That’s a bit patronising - people know there’s politics; there is at local leagues never mind UEFA level! Doesn’t mean people should like it or not be able to say it. If you don’t like it, don’t read it!
Delete@Fidje
DeleteOk, how do you explain Brych's destiny on WC2018? How do you explain Zwayer after Turin game? etc.
It isnt true that performance does not matter, it is very cynical to state that one should not be surprised whatever happens.
Guys, there are still outside Kuipers referees like Vincic and Karasev. Maybe comitee surprise us.
ReplyDeleteAnd other question. What is source that Rapallini is home.
DeleteA very bad situation with Cakir. The best referee of this euro is essentially humiliated by UEFA. And these people teach law and justice.
ReplyDeleteLoads of protesting news happening atm in Turkey. This will not go well imo.
ReplyDelete1. Politics has always existed in refereeing - very frustrating but true - but I think this poses a danger with the public. As social media is now so busy, people are quick to believe conspiracies etc. If people start to PERCEIVE the appointments as dodgy / fixed, there is a real danger.
ReplyDelete2. If you accept the appointments are pre determined (later stages bar major problems), I still think the earlier stages should be planned better - give other refs at least 2 games, space out appointments,etc, especially with all the travelling involved this time.
3. Normally we wouldn’t notice, but it’s surely naive to think Cakir can be dragged of to London only to be sent away again without this raising questions? It is a poor way to treat your team.
4. Countries are entitled to moan/complain about their assigned ref, but I’ve never been comfortable with teams vetoing /‘refusing’ a ref - I believe this happens at fifa level too. It shouldn’t be a negotiation, that’s what the ref comm is for, to be removed from the situation. Eg. ARG will never accept an English ref (think refused Webb for WC14 semi?) yet ARG refs have refereed England (Elizondo sent off Rooney WC06). It makes the process seem opaque.
I think Brych, makkelie, Kuipers, Cakir are all great refs (as have lots of others been in this tournament). I feel personally, on form in the build up, it should have been Cakir / Brych for the final but Rosetti (or Committee) are obviously entitled to pick who they like. I do think they should, however, ensue it doesn’t end in an avoidable public mess! I have a feeling we’ll hear about it in future books!
Either way, the standard has been great so far so good luck to the officials. Presume Oliver / Taylor are now out and really pleased how the ENG refs have done.
I think not only look back we should but also in front: Always ask : who is the best referee for the next game. Who cares about a missed offside flag in a group phase game - good to have made it there and not in a semi :)
ReplyDeleteTotal Pageviews
ReplyDelete12345678 - congratulations!
In an equidistant world, Makellie would have been sent home after group stage (like Turpin and Lahoz).
ReplyDeleteI repeat, there were big mistakes in his games: clear penalty not given in ITA- TUR, offside after corner in ITA- TUR, offside goal (VAR overruled) in FIN- RUS. But, despite all these big mistakes, he was rewarded with ENG- GER on Wembley, a huge game.
If we talk about performance criterion, this should be applied for all referees, not only for some of them.
Sorry Petschovschi! Performance and Justice are not important for UEFA.
Delete- penalty Tur-Ita: hardly visible for the referee (bad viewing angle despite expected position)
Delete- offside on corner: nothing major of course, except for a moment of Ar1 being unsufficiently focused; no consequence on the game whatsoever.
- offside mistake Ar2 in Fin-Rus was only marginal and we saw quite a lot of those VAR-interventions in other matches as well
On the contrary, the soft penalties awarded by Mateu and Turpin were open situations in which the referees made their decisions fully informed and with perfect viewing angle. Apart from that Turpin had more issues in his Rus-Den match as well and we don’t know how Uefa deemed the other KMI’s in Por-Fra.
Makkelie did a good job in the opening match. Not a penalty for me and the offside after corner is a clear mistake, but nothing decisive. Fin - Rus is a good performance, so he is kept in the KO. Then Eng - Ger is one of the best performance in this EURO. Overall, totally deserved SF appointment for Makkelie. Congratulations to him!
DeleteGuys, he's just disappointed with his compatriots Hategan and co. Any debate is useless.
DeleteHategan only 2 match. If Hategan failed this tournament, why is he now in London?
DeleteI am sorry guys but offside from corner kick is not acceptable mistake in this level. Maybe in a U15 game i can accept such a mistake. Some mistakes do not have to affect the score to be a big mistake.
DeleteHategan is in London to be 4O in KO rounds. There is no other reason. I am sorry for him.
DeleteIf one of Hategan's team makes a mistake, Hategan is also affected, but if one of Makkelie's team makes a mistake, Makkelie is not affected.
DeleteTo put it mildly... Rosetti has a lot to answer for.
@ron_referee
DeleteI talked about Makellie, I didn't mention the name of Hategan. If you have arguments to argue with me about Makellie, please do it. Otherwise, it's better to shut up. This is not a place for trolling.
higostiglitz is completely right. i had the same argument immediately after the opening match, bur was bashed by many, saying the corner-kick-offside decision didn't matter. It should have mattered a lot, sending the Dutch trio back home and to a afresh theoretical exam before getting any other appointment. It was the szhow-window game for refereeing excellence, and they botched it completely.
DeleteAnd Unknown, you should still be ‘bashed’ (I would say addressed to) for such a narrow-minded and limited view on top level refereeing (same for hugostiglitz by the way) For god sake, it’s a meaningless incident caused by a lack of focus. Situation was complicated by a player being outside the field of play and becoming involved. Mistake yes, important? In no way.
DeleteOnly ones repeatedly coming back to this are you, the ones who seem to begrudge Makkelie his appointments. Luckily most people (including committee) see it as it was, a minor mistake, no big deal. Very deserved semifinal appointment!
I am a bit surprised that there is one argument that has been completely missing in recent days, but that tends to be very common for instance regarding SF and Finals in CL and EL; 'which countries are missing in the final games, so which referees can now get a chance?' recent example Mateu Lahoz in CL.
ReplyDeletewe know that Makkelie is a UEFA favorite, and that they revere Brych and Kuipers for many years of top performances. So this must be like a dream for UEFA/Rosetti: with GER and NED teams missing at the end, he/they can use all three of these referees now in London.
I am sure that if ITA or ESP or ENG had missed out on SF, then we would have had a referee from those countries for the final 3 games. That is the problem when the better referees and better teams are mostly from the same countries. Every time some deserving referees must hope that their teams do not do so well next time. -- Only for Cakir we must look for another explanation....
Just to remind you that Romania, Russia and Slovenia also missed the SF...
DeletePersonally I would trust especially Vincic, perhaps also Karasev; but for UEFA, the consideration for ENG, GER, ITA will akways be much greater. I do not agree, but that is the reality....
DeleteAnd just to add - you suggest that we must look for explanations. I respectfully disagree - we must ask questions to the people responsible for this. Because football is not a private company. It is a social phenomenon and everybody has the right to know how it is managed - every referee, player, coach and above all every fan.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI agree with your comments @controlling the game, I think what's surprising is the use of referees in the KO stages. Hindsight and forward planning seem to be lacking.
DeleteThe use of Brych in all 3 KO rounds is crazy especially from QF to SF. UEFA could have used officials eg Orsato/Taylor/Cakir (even Karasev) in one of the QF potentially knowing that ENG/SPA/ITA would progress. If Brych was then appointed to a SF, then I don't think it's too much of an issue.
Knowing that Kuipers was pretty much a nailed on for the final after NED elimination using Kuipers in a RO16 would have made more sense fo another official who's had a decent tournament in the QF stages from the larger countries.
By Rosetti pretty much singling out TURPIN & LAHOZ and MAKKELIE to a degree has put unwanted pressure on himself!!
The high level of hate and bile on this blog towards the Ref Committee, Rosetti, UEFA is almost unbelievable.
ReplyDeleteWow!!!
Let me just say that regardless of who the Committee had selected for the SF, there will always likely be some group that will be unhappy with it.
In my opinion though, I think at this stage of the competition, UEFA does not want to make 'risky' appointments. As such, they have gone with 'experienced' referees who have not been involved in any 'media' scandals with their officiating so far at the Euros.
And I don't really blame them. Can you imagine the level of criticism that UEFA will get from the worldwide media if they selected Hategan or Karasev for the SF, and they end up making a huge mistake?
So I don't blame the committee for making safe choices for the SF. And contrary to most people's opinions, I think Brych and Makkiele deserve these appointments.
PS: I think Cakir should have gotten at least 1more game after SPA-CRO though. I will have loved for him to handle one of the QF games.
Very good comment. Brych and Kuipers are a 'safe pair of hands' for the last 5-8 years. The appointments should be a combination of current form and past merits. Sorry it is really nonsense to talk about a (semi)final appointment for Karasev (May be happy that he is present at this tournament) or Rapallini (As a committee you can't explain that to your own referees). Furthermore, the situation of Hategan is difficult. He was (negatively) in the spotlight this year, another mistake will destroy his career.
DeleteWould I have done things differently myself? Yes, Cakir should have got at least a QF (more likely a SF), Hategan a KO-match and i would swap Taylor and Oliver. But this EURO has a very high standard regarding refereeing.
I mainly agree @Lawaj (see my post just above yours). What's really surprising is the non-use of Cakir from QF stage it's baffling (political possibly or not seen as a safe pair of hands?, Not trusted or liked) needs to be questioned.
DeleteI think UEFA appointing went wrong from RO16 stage tbh with lack of forward planning (see above).
@Alfie 75, I suspect the committee did not really like his form before the Euros.
DeleteMaybe that influenced their management of him.
@Lawaj
DeletePossibly!
Still argue things went wrong with the appointing pretty early on in the tournament with the use of officials. To use Lahoz 3 times and others just once caused them issues. Why only use Kovaks 1 time when you could have appointed him in MD1 to see if he was up to the challenge is strange in itself!!
I agree. The manner of Kovacs' appointment was a little strange.
DeleteWell put, OJSref
DeleteI still have some doubts about this appointment. Although I think Makkelie is one of the best European referees of the moment, great personality and style, I don't think a semi-final is a 'wise' appointment.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, what consequences could a controversial VAR moment have on the final appointment? Is van Boekel out like Blom after the opening match? Should Kuipers suddenly work with a German VAR? An unnecessary risk.
Nowadays it is not only the referee that is important but the whole team. And that's just a weakness of Makkelie, his AR's! He only works with his AR2 for 5 months and both AR's made some errors this tournament.
But again, Makkelie is certainly one of the best 3 referees in Europe so this appointment is not very surprising. Although I would have preferred another referee (Cakir) for a semi-final.
@OJSref
DeleteI think Cakir was a shining light at this Euros, and many people (including myself) would have loved for him him to have handled at least 1game extra in the KOs.
Perhaps, his poor form prior to the Euro counted against him.
Is Slavko Vinčić still in London?
ReplyDeleteYes.
DeleteRosetti and Ceferin must resign. Cakir robbed once again of a big final. This is because of his country of origin nothing else.
ReplyDeleteGuys, through all Euro, I have an opinion that Kuipers have fan club, but I see that Cakir have bigger fan club. All of us knows that Cakir hasn't have any chances to be at Euro final before becouse problem with Ceferin. We have the Euro with best ever refereeing, nobody speak about officiating, and it is not very good, it's extraordinary. It's not about the names, it's about high officiating standard,and if Brych and Makkelie, and final referee(still unknown by comitee) do great job, there is no reason to speak about Cakir. Nobody should resign. Only problem is if it is true that all medias in world knows that Kuipers will be in the final. That's all. Cheers.
ReplyDeleteU couldnt understand the point that why we r angry.
DeleteYes, I absolutely can. If you are angry becouse they called him to London to said him ok you are done, don't care they paid him plane ticket. If I would be in same, I would say,ok, you paid me ticket, that was good flight, see you. Never the problem.
DeletePollyanna style :))
DeleteHaha, maybe. But, I think Panterewe that we are on the same page when talking about high officiating standards at this Euro, and also best officiating ever at Euro. Cheers.
DeleteI was really expecting to see Cakir in the semi finals. Very disappointed. My semi final referees would have been Cakir and Makkelie.
ReplyDelete