Miami, FL – The Concacaf Referee Committee has announced the match officials who will be in charge of the 2021 Gold Cup Final to be played on Sunday, August 1, 2021.
Match:
USA vs Mexico
Referee:
Said MARTINEZ (Honduras)
Assistant Referee 1:
Walter LOPEZ (Honduras)
Assistant Referee 2:
Henri PUPIRO (Nicaragua)
Fourth Official:
Mario ESCOBAR (Guatemala)
Reserve Assistant Referee:
Christian RAMIREZ (Honduras)
VAR:
Drew FISCHER (Canada)
AVAR:
Tatiana GUZMAN (Nicaragua)
Questions to CONCACAF experts, when will we see a Canadian referee at very top level in both CONCACAF and FIFA?
ReplyDeleteOthers can answer better than me, but there’s no one at the moment who I would say is clearly on the path towards that goal.
DeleteFischer and Gantar have had their chances to reach that level with Concacaf but have failed to capitalize on those chances: 2017 Gold Cup QF USAvsSLV for Fischer, which was a disaster with no disciplinary control, and 2019 CCL R16 Club America - Alianza for Gantar, in which he awarded a wrong penalty kick in the final minutes that decided the tie. Neither has received a match in the corresponding competition since those incidents, respectively. I think that is quite harsh from Concacaf, but as has been discussed, it’s clear that they are looking to move in a new direction with a new crop of referees… unfortunately, it doesn’t appear that there’s a Canadian among them (other than *perhaps* Lauziere, but he still has a long way to go).
The situation for Canadian referees is complicated because of the unusual path to get into MLS, it’s not as simple as for the American referees. There has been no new Canadian referee (besides Pierre-Luc Lauziere, who had 2 MLS games: one a dead-rubber at the end of 2019 and the other during 2020 when the Canadian-American border was fully closed and only Canadian referees could referee the Canadian matches) in MLS for almost a decade… The formation of the CPL with consistent professional league matches for Canadian referees should help with this sort of thing, since Canadian referees are not normally appointed to USL matches (with some exceptions).
As for *when* it will happen? No one can know, it depends. If Lauziere turns into something, maybe a few years. If he doesn’t, someone new will have to appear. Hopefully with the CPL the production line can be more fruitful than in recent years.
What Referee Committee or what Referee Organization is responsible for training, developing and getting Canadian referees to the top levels?
DeleteThanks smala, very informative and helpful answer.
DeleteI agree with Smala - the fact that Canada didn't have, until 2 years ago, a men's professional league was devastating. In MLS, six Canadian referees have had games since 2010, I think: Silviu Petrescu (ex-FIFA, now 53 YO, still active), Dave Gantar (1975, FIFA, active), Drew Fischer (1980, FIFA, active, FIFA VAR), Mathieu Bourdeau (did 2 games, got promoted FIFA, and retired for professional reasons), Pier-Luc Lauzière (1985, FIFA, has done a few games with PRO in MLS but not on regular roster), Geoff Gamble (1977, now only VAR, left PRO's regular roster several years back for unclear reasons).
DeleteMLS now has 27 teams, 3 of which are Canadian. Canada has 3/24 referees in PRO, which is a similar share. So this leads to several problems, I think:
- Petrescu-Gantar-Fischer have been in MLS since 2012 (Gamble 2011-2014). They've taken Canada's spot, and any further expansion would come at the expense of US referees. The newest FIFA - Lauzière - does not referee regularly in MLS.
- Referees, therefore, get promoted older as there's a certain seniority order.
- Canada Soccer used to assign referees in USL/NASL in Canada, so they were not part of PRO's structure except at the very top.
- Canadian referees have often refereed on mixed US-Canada teams. So when either the US or Canada is in an important game, they're out. Besides, it's more common to see a Canadian AR on a US team than vice-versa (think Fletcher with Geiger, Brière and Belleau with Geiger at the Gold Cup).
Now, there's the CanPL and referee development has expanded dramatically. Canada Soccer more or less doubled the size of its professional list, and added a NextGen category under it. The past two years, because of COVID, the CanPL organised a 'bubble' tournament, where a select list of referees was invited, with intense training. So, with finally a domestic league, things are changing:
- There's a broader pool of national referees
- There's been a change of guard, with a lot of young referees pushing through
- There are more games to referee, and the 'top national league' is now under Canada Soccer control.
So, it will take a while, but things are changing for the best. The National list is still a tad old to really aim for the future, but someone like Filip Dujic has been refereeing well in CanPL and is 27, and Fabrizio Stasolla is 31 (he was the designated 4th official on MLS games in Canada last year when the border was closed). One last note: Canada, lacking a women's professional league, has been very good at integrating women referees in men's matches and giving them opportunities. Referees like Myriam Marcotte (FIFA) and Carly Shaw-McLaren (born 1996, National List) have gotten significant opportunities in CanPL, while Chantal Boudreau (AR, FIFA, Olympics AR) is now on the PRO list for MLS games.
To answer a few more points raised by Smala and Arbiter:
Delete- Yes, Lauzière seems to be the top (men's referee) prospect for now, having just been promoted to FIFA. I've met him a few times, and he's both a wonderful person and a great referee. He's also 35, so it's incumbent on Canada Soccer and PRO to give him opportunities quick if he's meant to be the next one.
- That might mean getting Petrescu off the PRO list. He's been good in MLS this year, but he's also 53 years old. Either he moves off or Canada Soccer must get a fourth spot on PRO referee's list.
- Canada Soccer's referee department (headed by Isaac Raymond) handles assignations, training, and selection for the national list and FIFA list. Provincial associations supervise everyone below, including for the semi-pro leagues (PLSQ in Québec, League1Ontario). Provincial orgs recommend referee to Canada Soccer for promotion. PRO assigns and trains referees on MLS matches, and selects its own list (presumably with consultation with Canada Soccer).
- The CanPL and Canadian Championship (the cup) don't use VAR. PRO's VAR list is a mix of retired referees and prospects and has one Canadian on it (Geoff Gamble, former referee). Carol-Anne Chénard has recently started working as VAR for MLS matches too.
Thank you all for these very detailed answers! I think we can't ask for knowing more. Well written.
DeleteGood luck to Martinez, and I think he will need it. This match could be one that’s quite unrefereeable. Interesting to see how Martinez handles such a challenge so early in his young career.
ReplyDeleteI'm more worried about how the CONCACAF Referee Committee will ask/instruct/order Martinez to referee the match.
DeleteIf Martinez is allowed to be himself and referee the match in a manner that best suits him. Everything should be fine. After all, Martinez has shown to be a competent and capable referee.
I applaud CONCACAF an as Association for continuing to push gender diversification in their competitions. Congratulations Tatiana Guzman (NIC) for being selected as AVAR for the Final.
ReplyDeleteUnlike others, I will not question her knowledge, ability nor her credentials to be in the position.
"The idea that Tatiana Guzman, who has almost zero VAR experience, would be on the Final is ridiculous. Just utterly ridiculous."
- usaref
"And it doesn't stand with Tatiana Guzman acting as a VMO on the Gold Cup Final."
- usaref
Felicidades Tatiana!
With all due respect arbiter, usaref’s comments had nothing to do with her gender. They reflected the relative lack of experience she has with VAR compared with some other options.
DeleteWhatever reasons Concacaf has for her appointment I don’t know, but you mention the idea that she was appointed for the sake of gender diversity. If this was the case, I condemn that. All referees, male or female, she be appointed based on their talents and qualifications, not based upon their gender.
I know that is what he meant. Fortunately Guzman and CONCACAF know more than him.
DeleteI know that she wasn't appointed because of her gender. She's appointed because she's a capable VAR who happens to be female.
Confederation final referee at 29 is quite impressive!
ReplyDeleteIndeed it's quite an accomplishment for Said Martinez.
DeleteIf I am not mistaken he has previously been assigned as a 4th Official in other CONCACAF competitions Finals.
I sincerely hope that this match is a building block and not a stumbling point for Martinez. There are countless examples of referees being given too much too soon and unfortunately failing. And some have never managed to recover their form.
The tough part is that cocnacaf really had no choice but o give it to someone so young. It could have gone to Escobar who’s a few years older I guess, but this is the risk that concacaf has taken by moving on from its more experienced generation and trying to bring up a whole new generation very suddenly.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete@Arbiter, this will be the last time I ever engage you online.
ReplyDeleteI feel sad for you. It is clear you are a pathetic, perhaps lonely person--maybe a man, maybe a woman, how the hell do I know? The fact that you come on this site to do what you do on a regular basis is simply sad. There's no other way to say it. Yes, your words and conclusions anger me, but I can get over it. My life moves on unaffected. But it seems abundantly clear that whatever prompts you to be an angry, petty, vindictive person will never be removed from your life. I feel bad that you must live like that.
With that out of the way, to the "merits" of some of your "arguments."
First, it is abundantly clear you know nothing about the processes of VAR. In the other thread, you flatly stated or implied how good Gassama was at VAR because he sent down a penalty that was correctly overturned. Except, he took forever to do it (resuting in a mass-con) and then when he did send it down it took the fourth angle shown to get the correct decision. I am involved in VAR instruction. I am aware of best practices. I have seen VMOs develop. Gassama is not (yet) good at it. Full stop. Does that mean he will get every decision wrong? Of course not. Referees who are not world class can still make correct decisions. Instead of acknowledging that nuance or debating the points on the merits, you choose to score petty points and believe you are correct. You could engage in a discussion about what makes a good VAR but, it seems, you are completely incapable of doing so. If you don't think Fischer and Gantar are good at being VARs--irrespective of any individual decision at this tournament or any other competition--I don't know what to tell you except you're wrong.
Your comments above about Guzman are infuriating. Was I wrong about the appointment? Yes. Is the appointment still "ludicrous?" 100%. It's a farcical appointment. And if you didn't have an axe to grind with PRO and everyone else you don't like, you'd agree as well. It's political. There is a Nicagruan AR2 on this match and an AVAR. The AVAR, in particular, has zero live matches in the VOR before this tournament. On merit, Gassama should be there first. Imagine having the World Cup Final AR be someone who never ran a line 30 days prior. That's what is happening here. No reasonable person can say this is a good appointment. It's funny, actually. CONCACAF is awful and corrupt and political and stupid in your eyes... until they do something you agree with. Perhaps this appointment is awful and political and stupid? No, of course not. Because it fits your worldview. Your lack of critical thinking skills and being able to see nuance or multiple sides of an issue is on full display right here. Instead of engaging in analysis, you call me sexist. To that charge, see comment #1 above before it gets deleted. If Guzman was a man from Nicaragua or Jamaica or the US Virgin Islands or Suriname... I'd be saying the same thing. An AVAR with NO experience in a VOR prior to a tournament should not be on the Final. And you know that. But you pretend not to, in order to fit your narrative.
And what is that narrative? It seems that of a xenophobe who sees sinister forces allied against him or others in every corner, sadly. Your anti-American commentary seems to be regularly matched by other nationalistic language and words. I was sadly not surprised to see you be anti-Norwegian recently. That seems rich. What did Norwegians ever do to you? Specifically on that point, yet again you see know nuance and only present facts to support your "arguments," if they can be called that. Did Pedersen have an atrocious six-second call 9 years ago? Absolutely. She also ignored a Canadian player deliberately stepping on the head of Carli Lloyd, which would have resulted in a red card to Canada earlier in the match. Later, she also failed to send off Abby Wambach. Though, earlier, she missed what I would say are 4-5 reckless/SFP challenges by Canada. The story of that match is that Pederson had a nightmare of a performance. It was atrocious. A lot could be learned from it and a lot could be discussed. Instead, you launch an attack on her and Norway, imply she was corrupt and in favor of a team who had one of their best player's heads deliberately stepped on with no referee intervention. You do so because you are a simple, sad, myopically focused person who has but one trick in his--or her--arsenal.
DeleteYou make this site infinitely worse than it could be. And, no, before you cry wolf it's not about disagreement. I love disagreement. I learn from disagreement. It sharpens my own arguments and makes me re-think my own positions. It's how humans learn from each other. But you're not here to learn. You're not here to disagree (though you are disagreeable). You're here to troll. You're like a 14-year old boy on geocities site in 1996, anonymously taunting others for the sheer thrill of it; the internet has grown up, but you haven't. This is an informative site. The comment section could be a joyful exchange of information, learning and debate. Instead, it's dominated by you. Which, like you, is sad.
Its always good for the community when someone stands up to a bully. Thank you usaref, well done.
DeleteWhile one can agree with your arguments, it was very sad to read some sentences in your comment, usaref...
Delete"I feel sad for you. It is clear you are a pathetic, perhaps lonely person--maybe a man, maybe a woman, how the hell do I know?"
"But it seems abundantly clear that whatever prompts you to be an angry, petty, vindictive person will never be removed from your life. I feel bad that you must live like that."
"You do so because you are a simple, sad, myopically focused person who has but one trick in his--or her--arsenal."
To be honest, I don't remember a more insulting comment on this blog. Rethink it, please...
While I have no doubt you are sincere, sorry, no, no re-think is necessary in my eyes and none is coming. This individual has slandered others--both fellow posters and elite international referees--on this and other sites for years now. In this very thread, he accuses me of sexism. He has accused others of racism. He has made gross generalizations based on nationality or accused others of doing so with no evicence, again and again. He makes the site worse and less enjoyable for others. As @Thomas pointedly says, he is a bully. I do not want to comment here because of his behavior. I know others feel the same way.
DeleteIf you think this is the most insulting comment in this blog's history, I would humbly suggest you have not paid attention. It might be the sharpest and most directly targeting another individual, but insulting is an entirely different standard.
My words may be impolite, but I stand by them. In fact, I believe them to be generous based on the behavior that he has exhibited for nearly a decade.
usaref,
DeleteI would agree with you, but then we would both be wrong. May the rest of your day and the rest of your life be as pleasant as you are.
10’ handball shout for Mexico, Martinez consults AR2 and decides no handball. I think it’s a correct decision, the arm was a little high but it was within the body silhouette.
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
DeleteArm was tight into the body. Just like the Canadian player in London 2012.
(I think you’re misperceiving that 2012 one; it hit the defender’s more outstretched left arm, not her tucked right one)
DeleteOutstretched? C'mon now man, neither of the arms were outstretched. To say outstretched is embellishing it a bit much.
DeleteI like that Martinez is keeping it tight so far. A few chats, but more whistles than chats.
ReplyDeleteFunes Mori has been a handful. A chat from Martinez was very necessary. Good job!
45 minutes done.
ReplyDeleteSo far, so good for Martinez.
He chose IMO a correct and needed tight approach.
All of the fouls have been your run of mill type of fouls.
No heavy challenges or tackles to mention.
As such, no cards were needed at any point in the 1st half.
Well done, and best of luck in the 2nd Half.
Héctor Herrera of Mexico only given a yellow card for the following challenge in 72': https://streamable.com/1j25nh
ReplyDeleteFor those who didn't watch the game, the entirety of the referee performance can be described by simply two figures: Said Martinez whistled 51 fouls, and [at the time of me typing] there are only 30 comments on this blog post (only 5(!!) of which are about the match itself).
ReplyDeleteThe match certainly didn't turn out as I expected it to - the players were largely well-behaved and there were very little Concacaf-style shenanigans to go around. Martinez employed a *very* stringent line of foul selection, there was very little force / contact needed to elicit a whistle tonight. Absolutely anything that *could* be called a foul was called a foul tonight. I had expected Martinez to gradually open things up a bit more as the game progressed, but even that didn't happen; he consistently called the match very tight throughout. Whether this strategy caused the match to proceed in a mostly orderly fashion, or if it was simply the players' decision to behave tonight, we can only hypothesize, but it's hard to ignore the correlation between these two rather unusual circumstances in Concacaf.
Let's assume that Martinez consciously decided to call the game very tight to keep control, and that this strategy was indeed the cause of the teams' good behavior. Martinez has certainly a far more conservative approach to this match than we usually see in Concacaf, especially in big matches (i.e. both semi-finals, the 2020 CCL final, 2019 Gold Cup Final, Nations League final, etc.). This throughly sacrificed game flow, tempo, and (frankly) a large chance of this match becoming an exciting spectacle for the viewers. It was a slow, choppy, fairly boring game to watch (though that last part was perhaps more related to the lack of finishing exhibited by both teams). In exchange for this sacrifice, he avoided major problems and walks away from this match in far better shape than I thought would have even been possible. In this respect, I think we can say that Martinez cut off his finger to save his hand: he knew his strategy would harm the match in some way, but he preferred to make that sacrifice (he preferred to referee in a fairly unsatisfactory way) instead of taking a more risky/adventurous approach that could have turned into a disaster.
A performance like this reminds me why a referee like Jair Marrufo is so brilliant: Marrufo is able to take a much more courageous approach to game flow and foul selection (which creates a terrific spectacle of he sport) without really fearing the match spiraling out of control. I think this Gold Cup Final was officiated by a referee who very much knows that he is at the very beginning of a long career: he knows he is no Marrufo yet, he doesn't have the skills yet to be able to attempt such an adventurous style in this big match. He knew his limit and didn't try to push himself beyond that limit. As a result, we are left with a rather uninspiring spectacle of a match, but no refereeing disaster.
It would be interesting to see how Concacaf evaluates this performance, since it is such a different gameplan than normal. Escobar has been apparently rewarded for taking the opposite approach in his finals (which absolutely created fantastic football matches but also were rather disastrous). Will Concacaf approve of Martinez's risk-averse strategy, or did they expect him to take a more courageous approach?
For the sake of the physical wellbeing of the players involved. Because as referees believe it or not, that should still be one of our top priorities, not "how entertained are the spectators".
ReplyDeleteI a millions times prefer how Martinez worked last night to what Montero did, to what Marruffo has done and to what Escobar has done within CONCACAF. Because the FIFA version (Club World Cup) of Escobar was quite good.