FC Internazionale Milano (ITA) - Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER)
Referee: Carlos del Cerro Grande (ESP)
Assistant Referee 1: Juan Carlos Yuste Jiménez (ESP)
Assistant Referee 2: Roberto Alonso Fernández (ESP)
Fourth Official: Jesús Gil Manzano (ESP)
Video Assistant Referee: Alejandro José Hernández Hernández (ESP)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: José María Sánchez Martínez (ESP)
UEFA Referee Observer: Marc Batta (FRA)
UEFA Delegate: Radenko Mijatović (SVN)
Referee: Carlos del Cerro Grande (ESP)
Assistant Referee 1: Juan Carlos Yuste Jiménez (ESP)
Assistant Referee 2: Roberto Alonso Fernández (ESP)
Fourth Official: Jesús Gil Manzano (ESP)
Video Assistant Referee: Alejandro José Hernández Hernández (ESP)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: José María Sánchez Martínez (ESP)
UEFA Referee Observer: Marc Batta (FRA)
UEFA Delegate: Radenko Mijatović (SVN)
10 August 2020, 21:00 CET - Köln (Rhein-Energie-STADION)
Manchester United FC (ENG) - FC Copenhagen (DEN)
Referee: Clément Turpin (FRA)
Assistant Referee 1: Nicolas Danos (FRA)
Assistant Referee 2: Cyril Gringore (FRA)
Fourth Official: William Collum (SCO)
Video Assistant Referee: François Letexier (FRA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Jérôme Brisard (FRA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Hugh Dallas (SCO)
UEFA Delegate: Per Svärd (SWE)
Referee: Clément Turpin (FRA)
Assistant Referee 1: Nicolas Danos (FRA)
Assistant Referee 2: Cyril Gringore (FRA)
Fourth Official: William Collum (SCO)
Video Assistant Referee: François Letexier (FRA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Jérôme Brisard (FRA)
UEFA Referee Observer: Hugh Dallas (SCO)
UEFA Delegate: Per Svärd (SWE)
I expected Turpin in Champions League. Now I think in case of good performance he is number one candidate for EL final.
ReplyDeleteI would prefer Del Cerro, but he could be bothered by Sevilla still in the tournament.
DeleteThe observers could indicate, that it still is undecided between the two (plus maybe others). So the performances on Monday could be decisive for the selection.
DeleteBut yes, for me, Turpin also is the number one candidate - followed by Makkelie, if he is not in Portugal.
Maybe a CL semi for turpin
DeleteTwo French teams in UCL might have really harmed Turpin's chances there.
DeleteDo we think referees are going to move between the two competitions?
No big match for Turpin, For me Del Cerro is strong candidate for EL final,
ReplyDeleteLahoz should be a Spanish candidate for any final (CL or EL)
DeleteStill waiting for Skomina🤔
ReplyDeleteSkomina is being prepared for either CL quarterfinals or EL semifinals. I hope to see him very soon. If not then I think there is something wrong. We all know that he has a strong position in UEFA, and him being appointed is just a matter of time. I’m guessing that he will be appointed for one of the more crucial games later next week.
DeleteWhy VAR and AVAR are both referees? Would not make more sense if VAR is a referee and AVAR is an AR? The fourth official is also a referee, so, among the FO/VAR/AVAR, none is an AR...
ReplyDeleteSkomina might be at the Barca game Friday that’s what I feel might happen if not then maybe semifinal .
ReplyDeleteDel Cerro Grande is whistling for confirming the goal scored, in Italy some referees were used to do that also recently, but never seen in international competitions. Indeed at first glance I thought he had whistled offside or a foul...
ReplyDeleteWhen Inter scored 2-0 there was a possible penalty before, in case of NO GOAL, it would have been assigned.
Yes, quite confusing...
DeleteI am not sure, whether the penalty at the 2-0 would have been correct - looked like mutual holding.
They do that a lot in Spain. It is very annoying. Laws of the Game specifically state there is no need to whistle for goals.
DeletePhantom penalty from Turpin. Luckily offside in build up.
ReplyDeleteNow a penalty to Inter, wrong in my opinion. Arm very close to body.
ReplyDeleteAlso in this case, no VAR intervention.
Is checked now, never a penalty to me
DeleteI correct myself, OFR. Good decision, it was a mistake to assign this penalty.
DeleteSeems Del Cerro is indicating that it hit the shoulder. Basically no handball with new LOTG
DeleteIndeed quite clear with the new LOTG.
DeleteWith the old Laws it would have been borderline IMO.
It was shoulder, or to be precise the ball hit the point the is above the defined “red zone” of the arm. While speaking with VAR ref he showed him where this “red zone” is, consulting him where the ball really hit the player.
DeleteLukaku goal. Fortunately Del Cerro uses to hold his whistle for advantages even in PK situations!
ReplyDeleteCorrect OFR. Arm close to body, not a PK
ReplyDeleteVery shaky performance from the Spaniard so far..he was even trying to convince VAR officials for something not even close to a handball, even during OFR, absurd
ReplyDeleteAre you sure? Can you read his lips?
DeleteWell, its just he was really clear about it, he didnt cover his mouth and speak. I think good communication, he was called for OFR because what he described didnt really happen, so good call and praise to VAR
DeleteI would also say, it is quite helpful, when the referee describes his perception in detail. And when using body language helps, it is OK to use it.
DeleteWhy Del Cerro prepared everything for the penalty before the end of the check?
ReplyDeleteFor not wasting time if the penalty is confirmed.
DeleteAnd doing it doesn't really harm anyone.
VAR was way too slow. In 2 seconds you could see that 1, it hit the shoulder, not the arm and 2, the arm was tucked in and 100% close to the body so it didn't even matter if it hit the arm.
DeleteAnd not only VAR took quite a lot of time, also Del Cerro needed too much time to come to a (rather simple) conclusion in my opinion. It seemed he had to be persuaded for withdrawing the penalty.
DeleteI really liked the procedure actually, it is time-saving if the penalty isnt overturned. And he also gave time to VAR by that.
DeleteEvident offside missed by AR1, goal by Manchester United to be disallowed after VAR intervention. I didn't watch previous situation but it seemed that the same AR had missed an offside before the penalty whistled by Turpin?
ReplyDeleteThe offside on the penalty situation was correctly signaled by AR1.
DeleteThank you! So Turpin was too hurry in whistling penalty before receving the offside input by AR1?
DeleteYes he whistled penalty and then offside. Then VAR checked and confirmed offside.
DeleteWhy to hurry? This is correct procedure. Whistle penalty and then immediatelly offside. So everybody knows if offside is wrong it's going to be penalty. Otherwise people can say he didn't want to whistle penalty but VAR said this to him.
DeleteTo be honest, in Italy with VAR things are diffrent.
DeleteIf there is an offside before a penalty, referee must signal it. Then in case of wrong call, VAR for the possible penalty. It is not important to show before to people that in all cases referee would have whistled penalty. But you can be right, maybe it is a guideline by Rosetti, to make all fans aware about the decisions...
I'd like to see a clip of this, because I'm confused by Chefren's description of what happens in Italy. It sounds wrong, to be honest.
DeleteIf there is a close offside relative to a goal-scoring scenario, the flag should stay down UNTIL the goal-scoring scenario is complete. So the flag should stay down until the penalty is whistled. Then the flag goes up and offside is the decision on the field.
If the VAR then annuls the offside (which is an objective test), penalty becomes the decision and an OFR is only necessary when the VAR thinks the penalty decision is a clear error.
Honestly, it's just like a goal/offside VAR decision. The flag doesn't go up until the ball is in the net. Then offside is the decision. If VAR overturns the offside, you revert to the goal (unless there is a clear reason, other than offside, to recommend an OFR and reverse the goal).
Sorry usaref, you are right, in most of the situations, a penalty happens in a goal-scoring scenario, so it is clear that AR in that moment is still with flag down. Since I didn't watch the situation, I was talking about a potential scenario in which AR could have raised flag before the incident.
DeleteHope it is clear now, everything you said is right.
Hm, but the AR could "warn" the referee about the offside with the communication system. Then the referee can immediately whistle the offside, when the attack is over - independent from its outcome (goal, penalty, goal kick,...). Signalling two different decisions consecutively should be avoided IMO - although it's not a big problem, if it happens.
DeleteSo I actually wanted to agree with your previous statement, Chefren. :)
BTW, Hategan did the same on Saturday before the Bayern penalty.
But it's a question of efficiency, Phillipp. And also about favoring the attack.
DeleteIf the referee never makes a decision to award a penalty, then he MUST take an OFR to do so. And that means the VAR has to say not awarding the penalty is a clear error.
By forcing the referee to make the decision on the field, we see what he decides (penalty or no penalty). And if he decides penalty, then we can move forward more efficiently without an unnecessary OFR. And if the VAR disagrees, the threshold for intervention is to say that the award of a penalty is a clear error, so it is a system that inherently favors the attack--at least in a very small manner.
OK, I understand that argument and actually didn't consider that before, so thanks for the input.
DeleteI still think, that it could be solved "internally": The referee could say to the VAR, that he would have awarded a penalty without the offside and ask him to check the offside. Then the VAR could confirm the penalty (if no offside and no clear error) without the OFR, I think.
But I might be wrong here.
Manchester United goal disallowed, correct offside by AR2.
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ReplyDeleteAgreed. He looks late in all decisions. Do you know why?
DeleteDel Cerro Grande loves advantages.
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ReplyDeleteCorrect YC for Tapsoba (persistent infringement)
ReplyDeleteIMO he could have issued it in the foul commited before.
Excellent and brave NO PENALTY from Turpin.
ReplyDeleteQuite soft penalty by del Cerro but VAR should support.
ReplyDeleteWhat a soft penalty by Spaniard.
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ReplyDeleteI would say "luckily" there was that handball before, otherwise penalty would have been confirmed, and in my opinion definitely a too soft one.
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DeleteOh god, here we go again. Please Sheriff, not everybody is having a conversation with you.
DeleteBecause there still is a bit of holding. So if a player is held, loses his footing, slips and falls, it's technically a foul. Practically, the intensity of the holding has to be considered, therefore it is a soft penalty - but rather not a clear mistake IMO.
DeleteWhy was there an OFR? Isn't attacker's handball immediatelly before a penalty (or a goal) a factual decision now?
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DeleteI would agree with that, but there seem to be different interpretations for that in different competitions.
DeleteMy previous comment was an answer to Anonymous, 23:06.
DeleteAnd indeed Cakir handled it differently, so there is a lack of consistency
I don't agree with "soft = wrong". Especially not regarding VAR intervention. Of course, one can criticize a referee for soft decisions though, especially if it is not consistent.
And I also think, the grey zone is too big. However as long as some (capable and experienced) referees give penalties for such situations, they can't be clear and obvious errors.
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DeleteDel Cerro whistled foul against Lukaku stopping an OGSO: not a clear one. Interesting that in this case referee had the exact scenario in his mind of what was about to happen without whistling, so in case, he could have delayed his call waiting for the end of the action, due to VAR purpose. But also in Italy when referees whistle foul against attackers, and ball is about to go in the net / OGSO, they don't wait, differently from other situations.
ReplyDeleteYes, difficult.
DeleteOn the one hand, it would be more consistent with the general VAR approach, if you delay the whistle until the end.
On the other hand, the decision would be more difficult to sell then. And the referee probably was very sure about the foul.
Quiet night for Turpin in Köln so far.
ReplyDeleteBad performance by Del Cerro. Lot of crucial mistakes, including 2 wrong penalties and non existing foul from Lukaku in the last minute denying the goal. Without VAR the would be 3 crucial mistakes.
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DeleteFoul is supportable i think. However, he didnt perform so good.
DeleteWe can really praise VAR Hernandez Hernandez for excellent reactions. I could imagine someone interpreting the first situation as borderline, and also the handball was well spotted.
Del Cerro was below average tonight. Not what we may expect on this level. I don't expect him to be appointed for another match. Strange decisions, inconsistent disciplinary sanctions and poor foul detection. Normally he is much better!
ReplyDeleteAt least one minute of extra time was missing in Dusseldorf. Penalty review required 2 minutes..
ReplyDeleteYes, surprised me as well, that he finished after 7 minutes.
DeleteFor the French readers or those who know Turpin well. Why doesn't he wear short Sleeved Shirts instead of pushing up the sleeves of Long Sleeved shirt?
ReplyDeleteHe often does that, especially in winter. I don’t know why.
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DeleteMaybe tattoos like Clattenburg?
DeleteNo tattoos because he also wears short sleeves.
DeleteDefinitely not a quick google search will show you that he’s been doing wearing a mix of short sleeves, long sleeves like described and long sleeves normally for a while now. It is simply his style.
DeleteDefinitely not a quick google search will show you that he’s been doing wearing a mix of short sleeves, long sleeves like described and long sleeves normally for a while now. It is simply his style.
DeletePenalty whistled by Turpin in extra time, seems correct, although we havent seen too good replays.
ReplyDeletePenalty Manchester? What is going on with the UEFA referees in this final tournament? Turpin with two phantom penalties. OMG.
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ReplyDeleteAttacker feels a defender's arm on his shoulder. Then he fells down like he was struck by a lightning.
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DeleteI completely agree! Top referees don’t whistle these kinds of penalties... It’s exactly as Anonymous describes, attacker feels arm over the shoulder and falls down completely voluntarily.
DeleteBecause of the arm VAR’s hands are tight, but my god, what a soooooft penalty :(
Fully correct penalty IMO.
ReplyDeleteRidiculous penalty!
DeleteMaybe ”fully correct” was a bit excessive, but this penalty is far from ridiculous. Definitely supportable.
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ReplyDeleteIt's curious that a lot of times a referee's performance is highly praised here and criticized by the general public/media and sometimes is the other way around.
ReplyDeleteI say that because Del Cerro's performance today is quite negative here but according to what I have read in some forums, the public have received very well the 2 VAR calls, as they believe a lot of times the referee's ego impedes to overcall bad calls; moreover a lot coments praised Del Cerro's physical condition.
I understand the analysis here is better and people commenting here are quite more knowledgeable about the LOTG than the general public, but I found it curious.
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DeleteI agree regarding VAR and fitness.
DeleteIn my opinion, here criteria are now high, because we are coming close to the final and these are like qualification games for semifinals and finals. And from that perspectiveZwayer, Cakir and Grande didnt pass the test.
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DeleteI cannot agree more with Modern < By the Book! In these final stages both teams have to decide the winner, not the referee with ultrasoft decisive penalties... The real top referees understand!
DeleteWe had the Lyon penalty by Zwayer, the (2nd) Inter penalty by Del Cerro and the ManU penalty by Turpin. Completely wrong? Maybe not... But poor decisions? Yes in my book!
About Del Cerro, we saw definitely better performances by him. Let's see whether he will get another game., maybe still in Europa League, but I'm not convinced.
ReplyDeletePenalty by Turpin in ET: OK, but not a very clear one if you ask me.
For me the same situation with Zwayer’s penalty for Lyon
DeleteVery interessting situation in terms of accidental handball immediately before a goal-scoring opportunity in del Cerro´s match.
ReplyDeleteIf we take the laws of the game, it is said that an accidental handball is an offence if immediately afterwards a goal-scoring opportunity is created. But was there a goal scoring opportunity in the moment of the foul? If you ask me: rather no because the fouled player tried to get possession of the ball fighting with his opponent.
Otherwise it is as well a question of how to interpret this part of the law: should this specific case 'accidental handball immediately before a penalty decision' also be covered by what is said in law 12?
It's expected that you can't allow any handball that happens right before a penalty. The penalty call is a goal scoring oppurtunity.
DeleteIt's obvious that penalty is also considered as goal-scoring opportunity. Don't overthink.
ReplyDeleteThe list is surely now down to: Oliver, Taylor, Mateu Lahoz, (Turpin), Brych, Orsato, Kuipers, Makkelie, Marciniak, (Soares Dias), (Hategan), Skomina
ReplyDeleteLol you guys and your "conclusions".
ReplyDeleteIf Barca doesnt reach the Finals, I would say that Mateu is very possible solution for CL final.I say IF.
ReplyDeleteI know I'm throwing gasoline on the fire here, because people have doubts over the penalty itself, but... why wasn't Turpin's penalty call in extra time a DOGSO red?
ReplyDeleteIt's a grab of the shoulder with no attempt to play the ball. It occurs 10 meters from goal when the attacker is one-on-one with the keeper with no one else to challenge.
It's deceiving immediately after the whistle. And to be sure it would be a controversial call in that situation. But it's a pretty clear red card when you look at it on replay... if you stipulate that it's a penalty, of course!
Direction of the way the player was facing and perhaps control is what bring it down to yellow for me.
DeleteBgymn, agreed. It is a bit exhausting isn't it.
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