Monday, 28 November 2022

Game 31 - Iván Barton in Brazil - Switzerland (discussion)

After Germany - Japan, El Salvador's referee  Iván Barton is in charge of Brazil - Switzerland. Let's see how he will perform. 



Game 31 - Doha (17:00 CET)
BRAZIL - SWITZERLAND
Referee: Iván Barton (SLV)
Assistant Referee 1: David Moran (SLV)
Assistant Referee 2: Zachari Zeegelaar (SUR)
Fourth Official: Said Martinez (HON)
Reserve Assistant Referee: Walter Lopez (HON)
Video Assistant Referee: Drew Fischer (CAN)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Armando Villarreal (USA)
Offside Video Assistant Referee: Kathryn Nesbitt (USA)
Support Video Assistant Referee: Fernando Guerrero (MEX)
Standby Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Mahmoud Abouelregal (EGY)

58 comments:

  1. OT: Thanks to HowardMaxi for bringing both this (and Ortega's distraction in POLKSA ;))) to my attention -

    ITV sequence about Mohammed's cautions for excessive celebration earlier today:
    https://streamja.com/0OJra

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  2. 2 fouls against Brazil #20 in the first 2:30 of this game, important to bear in mind perhaps.

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    1. Barton with a very convincing body language about what to whistle and what not (for the latter choice, check about 04:30 in the mdfield).

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    2. Now a third one 18 minutes in, committed by SUI25. He also did the first, SUI3 did the second.

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  3. It is later than usual and the appointments are not annoumced yet by Arbitro Internacional. Any reasons?

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    1. I dont know, I imagine that at any moment they leave

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    2. According to one of the last tweets from Arbitro Internacional, no agreement inside FIFA about a particular appointment. That's reason for delay.

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    3. Again pressure from outside for Frappart? :((

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    4. I guess Frappart or Mukansanga are in the middle, since they haven't been designated in the last few games.

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  4. I like this referee, his style, self-presentation on the pitch, criteria for the foul.

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  5. Very good first half but in a rather easy game. In 28' or 29' he managed a player like a very experienced referee.

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  6. Good job but not challenged at all.

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  7. @ArbitroInternacional informs that there is a disagreement of the committee regarding a special designation...
    I imagine that POL-ARG or KSA-MEX

    Let's hope

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    1. My idea is that Saudi Arabia win on MD1 put really in trouble committee, about the appointment for MD2 still OK, but this one is more difficult, maybe they don't know how to treat this team and indeed in normal conditions, with a win by both Argentina on MD1 and Poland on MD2 against them, the choice would have been surely different, but now it is fair to me to consider indeed KSA - MEX as very big game. They could have expected such scenario for POL - ARG, but not for the other game in the group, I would say...

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    2. Would be understandable for POL-ARG. If they want to maintain principle regarding associations and not give a third game to Barton for example this is a very challenging appointment. I don't really see an African candidate for this potentially heated game. From Asia is also difficult, Beath or Al Jassim, with the latter in the best position after their respective first matches. From CONCACAF the only option would be Elfath, but I would say he's out after his performance in Portugal - Ghana. Maybe Conger, would be a surprise to appoint him directly to this big match.

      But also if they do appoint a UEFA referee, who to pick? Makkelie or Oliver with only two days rest? Siebert or Kovacs with no real trust? Or from CONMEBOL, Claus not a real option, maybe Valenzuela? Very difficult for committee this one.

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    3. I would go for Oliver in KSA-MEX. English referee, used to short periods of rest, had a good first match.

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    4. If I made the decision, I would give it to Conger for POL-ARG
      If it goes wrong for him, nothing happens
      If it goes well for him, nothing happens

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    5. @Marko23 I would give it to Oliver too

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    6. @Marko23 I would give it to Oliver too

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    7. I think that Gomes from CAF is a good choice for one of the games in group C (Pol v Arg), be good to test him too!
      I would like to see the experienced Conger get a game too (KSA v Mex)
      Tello perhaps and Claus in group D

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    8. Tunisia - France maybe the only option for Conger, as Tunisia has only very, very few chances of qualification, being almost eliminated. But I don't know how much the connection NZL - Australia (team in the same group) can be considered here.
      For sure we can say that committee is in trouble for some unexpected situations in the groups and almost no games without importance.

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    9. AUS-DEN: Valenzuela
      TUN-FRA: Conger
      POL-ARG: Gomes
      KSA-MEX: Siebert
      Where is the problem? ;)

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    10. You all overlooked Salima "Here I am, and I deserve to be here" Mukasanga for KSA-MEX or POL-ARG! ;-)

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    11. Sorry Philipp S and Andre but I just don't think Gomes and Ghorbal did well enough. If one of them qualifies, then definitely Gomes in my opinion. I thought Ghorbal's performance was suboptimal in his first game, especially when it comes to foul detection (very low bar for blowing the whistle and that won't work in this decider).

      Maybe as Chefren suggested in the other topic they are waiting for tonight's matches. Maybe to appoint Faghani for a 3rd group stage match if he performs well, or to get a European referee in.

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    12. Marko23, Gomes is certainly in the top 5 of this WC. Did you see him with France? Flawless.
      Not to mention his vast experience - CAF CL final, Africa Cup of nations final. The most talented African ref in decades.

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  8. You can debate whether the foul itself was strictly reckless, but it's the third time that SUI25 has fouled BRA20. Good yellow card from Barton, 50'

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  9. Great Barton's work. More by sleepy game than a challenger performance. Most boring game so far

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  10. I don't really understand what the 52' yellow card is for. It's simply not reckless, it's not SPA unless your standard is way higher than it's been for other plays in this game (and this tournament), and it's BRA8's first foul of the game so not Persistent Offenses at all. It feels like he just gave it simply to even up the numbers, not really a fan of that.

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  11. Well deserved 1st YC now, perfect handling by our Professor for Organic Chemistry from Salvador University, whose bidy language, foul detection and communication are really great so far.

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    1. I mean the YC ag. Rieder/SUI. The YC ag. Fred/BRA was a soft one.

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    2. Are you sure, Andrasch, about body language?
      To me it seems rather non sovereign and close to ridiculous (min 69, "head to head with Swiss defender).

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  12. Terrible offside mistake by AR2, the assistant referees are not at Barton's level, really sorry to say that. This mistake could cost another appointment. Really, really difficult management for Collina and committee now, what to do in case of good performance by referee?

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    1. Let him work with Diaz and/or Nesbitt. :)

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    2. My personal opinion is that considering we have VARs, who are able to correct such mistakes within a few seconds (some of them even really tight and difficult to judge in real time), the refereeing trios should be able to get some leniency, if the only mistakes were offside calls. I completely agree that the AR's are now performing below standard, however this should not harm the qualities of the referee as much now, as it used to in the past.

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    3. I feel the new offside technology makes ARs' roles less important, as long as they keep the flag down. VAR, on the other hand, has such limited usage and is up to the discretion of the VAR referee, so as not to play as vital a role.

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  13. Looks like Akanji is destined to not be shown YC...

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  14. Commentator said, "It was a little bit confusing, the signal for offside" (after the OFR). Well, I don't think holding a hand up in the air (for indirect kick) has ever been used to signal a goal. And amazing use of the new technology to check no Vinicius Jr. but Charleson coming back towards his own end as the player offside.

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  15. The "X" factor for Barton is knowing exactly what to do, since the start of a game, and doing that in a very natural way. Then, the decisions can be even wrong (hopefully only the minor ones), but if you start from this condition, you have already made most of the work in terms of acceptance by players.

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  16. How disappointing: Neymar not on the pitch and all the Brazilian magic completely disappeared.

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    1. I don't think it has so much to do with Neymar. Remember, in Brazil's second game last time around it took them until stoppage time to score against a Costa Rica team that was far worse than the Swiss.

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  17. 79' for the same case yesterday Goretzka was booked...

    Now we have Rodriguez who is pulling down Antony,but not being punished for that

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  18. The offside technology actually makes an offside call factually objective for the first time in the history of the game, in that it takes the guesswork out of the call so that people should hopefully no longer question it. Now if FIFA can somehow bring that same objectivity to extra time, situations like the Korean coach berating Taylor at the end of his match should no longer arise. But how exactly to better quanitfy extra time without stopping the clock? Perhaps having it actually be transparent and have a separate stadium clock connected to the referee's watch that shows extra time added for each incident/injury, etc., that adds extra time would work, but that's just an idea. Basically, the system needs overhauling or tweaking just as badly or more so than offside calls.

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    1. The fact that extra time is rounded to the nearest whole minute alone shows that it isn't an accurate count.

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  19. Together with TUN-AUS the most boring game in the World Cup, except for that great goal

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    1. How about Poland-Mexico?

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    2. And apart from that, I was missing one: MAR-CRO

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    3. I'm sorry but you obviously didn't watch all the 0-0 games that were much more boring.

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  20. Together with TUN-AUS the most boring game in the World Cup, except for that great goal

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  21. I'm really satisfied with Barton's performance today: good foul detection and good disciplinary line, except for one YC missed in 79' for my taste (SPA, I think). Yes, it was an easy game, but Barton maintained full control over it IMO. His body language and communication are certainly unique, but very likeable, friendly and, for my taste, efficient.

    Unfortunately, a crucial error by AR2 tarnishes this performance a bit. IIRC, last time it was AR1 who made a similar mistake. This time it was probably missed on a perception level, but I think such a mistake is not something nice at a WC level.

    Barton leaves an impression of being a highly talented and highly motivated referee. It is a remarkable accomplishment to referee a game such as BRA - SUI at a WC, being only 31 years old. If everything goes well, maybe we will watch him at 3 or even 4 more WCs. After gaining more experience, he could definitely be a potential candidate for a final at one of those tournaments.

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  22. Barton definitely deserves the knockouts.
    Took Germany and Brazil, big tests, no problems at all.
    Good foul detection, intelligent management of cards (good signal!), excellent fitness.
    For a 31-year-old ref making his debut at the World Cup, that is remarkable.
    Bravo, Mr. Barton!

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  23. Считаю, что нужно на матчи назначать нашего лысого Карасева, он слишком зажрался в руках Газпрома, пора вытаскивать его из этого болота. А то лысый совсем стал ручным судьей.

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  24. Analysis

    Tough gig for the Salvadorian official: he had to face many deliberate infringements, a tight scoreline and a partisan crowd. And overall, Iván Barton should be happy with his performance against this background in Brazil vs. Switzerland, surely securing himself a third WC assignment in the process. BUT, I contend quite strongly that this showing was *not* as wholly positive as has been made out, and I present the reasons for why below.

    << FULL CLIPS MONTAGE >>
    https://fromsmash.com/brasuibarton

    (FromSmash is good because you skim through the clips chronologically online :))

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    1. *** Ask yourself, did Iván Barton present an incremental and stepped disciplinary approach, which involved more than (two) cards, whistling the consequent freekick offences and running over in a quick manner in order to keep control? The answer should surely be no - at least it is in my opinion. I don’t charge him with missing any CLEAR cautions by any means in the 1H, and indeed even those in the 2H weren’t so bad (61’, 79’, 88’). But I never had any idea he wanted to, or even would be able to, work very preventatively in this regard. His only tactic was to blow the whistle hard and run in fast. For sure this was appropriate on some occasions (eg. 90’), but tbh I found his ‘threats’ rather ‘hollow’, and I think the players worked this out too. (Compare to Vinčić, bizarrely considered “poor” by a blog consensus in ARGKSA, who closely patrolled mannyyy incidents and reacted in modified ways each time). Note how ‘deliberate’, and no attempt to poke the ball away etc, the fouls were in this game. That didn’t matter today, but in a harder setting, could easily result in ‘boiling over’ with no reaction made by the referee.


      *** His player interactions and (especially) facial expressions were very satisfying in the GERJPN game, and while the camera focused on him less this time (and indeed he faced quite a tense and concentration-requiring spectacle in BRASUI), we can guess that mostly these skills were on the same very sophsticated level this time. But again we can ask - did the players *really* respect this referee? Again, I’m more ambivalent here. Some scenes:

      14’ - After Casemiro isn’t cautioned (it would be a good one after 4’ especially but one can hardly blame a ref at this WC for not doing so!), idk what happens but it seems like sth involving the ball and Barton responds rather aggressively to SUI no.8 when warning him, or we could rather say rather ‘confronting’(!) him based on the body language here. The camera then pans away.

      29’ - Very blatant kicking ball away by Xhaka. His concern for Barton’s warning seems to be trifling at best and irritated disinterest at worst. Remember, it is not like Barton is a distant ref etc, Xhaka’s distain is DESPITE his nice demeanour and good facial expressions.

      69’ - The most ‘famous’ scene from this game. To be fair, I think Iván Barton won here! But it should be quite far away from best practice (particularly at WC level).


      *** Barton’s sole focus was to only survive and use as few cards as plausibly possible. There is a difference between poistive leniency, confident game-control and this CONCACAF-style… I was worried when no caution was given at 48’, but the opening card at 50’ was a very good call and should be underlined. I’m quite sure that he didn’t realllyyy want to book then at 52’, but the card was credible and valuable (even mandatory!) for balancing. The most worrying sequence was 79’ to 80’ though. Having ignored a clear YC for Rodriguez for SPA blocking in both mine and Anthony’s opinion, the latter was obviously furious and decides to wipe out Xhaka (you can understand him…) in frustration, well off-the-ball at 80’. Barton DOES see the scene, to his credit. This whole incident could easily, easily have escalated in another game… (indeed my feeling was the Swiss held back a bit, eg. 90’ could have been a big confrontation, this wasn’t a pure KO tie and it showed). If the players decide that they need to take the laws into their own hands, and even worse aren’t censured at all for it, then this is never a good sign…

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    2. (On Zeegelaar mistake - I think it is a bit easy to pile on a Surinamese linesman as incompetent, etcetera, but it was a fairly tricky scene and with respect, eg. De Vries’ mistake was by far worse…)

      SO, to summarise:
      It was still a good evening’s work for thirty-one year old Iván Arcides Barton Cisneros in the bigger picture - this was a tough game and he managed to pass through it. However: the idea that this was anything close to ‘flying colours’ is far, far away from reality - at least in my opinion. I wait to see his (deserved) next assignment now.

      7 - 7 - 5 - (III)

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