Friday, 22 June 2018

2018 FIFA World Cup Match 25: Brazil - Costa Rica (discussion)

Let's discuss here the performance of Björn Kuipers in Brazil - Costa Rica. Good luck to the officiating team! 

Match #25
Saint Ptersburg, 22 June 2018 14:00 CET
Brazil - Costa Rica
Referee: Björn Kuipers (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Sander van Roekel (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Erwin Zeinstra (NED)
Fourth Official: Damir Skomina (SVN)
Fifth Official: Jure Praprotnik (SVN)
VAR: Danny Makkelie (NED)
AVAR1: Artur Soares Dias (POR)
AVAR 2: Joe Fletcher (CAN)
AVAR 3: Mark Geiger (USA)

178 comments:

  1. Maybe the most beautiful body language in a world of refereeing.

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  2. I believe shortly he will issue a YC for tactical fauls on Neymar.

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  3. Cool and clear as we know him...

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  4. Correct wait and see by AR1, flag was raised afterwards disallowing a goal. Well done!

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    1. 3 correct offside calls by Sander van Roekel till now... Well done to him!

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    2. No Soham. Big phantom offside denying a clear corner for Brazil...

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    3. @Benoit It was for an earlier situation as others are saying... Van Roekel waited till the end as per directives when VAR is involved!

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    4. Wasn’t a phantom. It was a directive move by the AR. Wait until there is no goal and then raise the flag. Neymar was offside but they didn’t show the replay on him.

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  5. Ok, CRC players are playing hard but I’m really annoyed by Brazilians exaggerating every single contact. FIFA should do something about it, especially now that we have VAR and violent contacts are always checked

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    1. The referee has done well not to be fooled by exaggerated contacts... Good going till now!

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    2. How to describe Neymar's behavior? He's acting like angry child on the school yard.

      I really don't like behaviour of todays footballers. Imagine Ronaldinho, Rivaldo or Ronaldo acting like that. I know, you can't

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    3. I remember Neymar behaving in similar manner in Barcelona v Juventus return leg in UCL QFs 2017... Kuipers was the referee there too and after some warnings Neymar was shown a YC and everything totally stopped!

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    4. And at the end of First Half Neymar waited for the ref in the tunnel. Definitely a poor behaviour

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    5. Kuipers is one name who is not going to be intimidated by all that so wrong choice by Neymar :D

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  6. Very big error by Van Roekel with a phantom offside absolutely unbelievable at this level. Poor here.

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    1. Watch the incident again. He raised the flag after the situation was over because then there was no goal chance. The offside was for Neymar or something before. That’s the directives they have.

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    2. The offside was prior cross from the left side. I believe iz was Gabriel Jesus. AR raised the flag after attack was finished.

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  7. Offside was not given for Jesus during the cross but for Neymar before the cross, which looked offside to me

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    1. Never. We saw a replay which clearly showed that Van Roekel raised the flag for the second one. Big error.

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    2. Exactly! Correct call! I think Benoit confused it here!

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    3. Van Roekel rised the flag at the end of the action IMO. Maybe it's becaose of the protocol, who knows

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    4. Maybe it was because of the instruction to keep the flag down when there is a goal scoring opportunity, could explain why he waited for the signal until after the cross

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    5. He waited as the instructions they have been given for tight situations. Kuipers signalled that it was in an earlier situation

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    6. I m not confused thanks...and we saw Kuipers indicated the second one place for offside raised. So...sorry but clear error.

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    7. Again, nothing important :)

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    8. The IFK was taken inside the penalty area yes but when he signalled it he pointed towards the other side of the penalty area indicating he penalized Neymar's offside

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    9. So if the protocol has been adopted, wrong communication between referees about place. Because Kuipers first indicated Neymar and changed his mind for the second one. That’s why I m a bit interrogated about Van Roekel’s decision...

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    10. The flag was raised after the ball went out of play but the referee signalled straight away towards Neymar that the flag was up for the initial play.

      I know it was a very late flag, but that’s their instructions.

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    11. So this clears it up... No error at all... Just the directives when VAR is in place were followed!

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  8. Out of curiosity, why whistle for offside in the 44th when Costa Rica has gained possession and begins their attack. Couldn't the referee wave down his AR's flag and allow play to continue? Or is doing that frowned upon at this level?

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    1. Agree Sheriff. Here a bad decision to stop the play...Costa Rica playees could play a very good action without the whistle. Advantage broken here in my taste. But extremely good Kuipers in general. Well done !

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    2. I've noticed a few of those this tournament so far. Perhaps they want to blow to whistle there to showcase to fans that offsides are being called the same as in the no-VAR era, just a few seconds later? I don't know, they should just play advantage there.

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    3. I had the same feeling. So far I haven’t seen any referee play an ‘advantage’ for the defending team from an offside in this world cup.. where we see it almost every game in the EPL.

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    4. Yes that should have been an advantage and I said it right away when I saw it but it’s okay. But the whistle should hace come earlier.

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    5. At least the treatment of such situation is same in all the WC matches so at least we have consistency :D

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  9. I like how Kuipers is doing so far. Has done a good job managing Costa Rica's physical playing without having to show any cards. They started out physical but slowed down after a few minutes; good control by Kuipers. And he's not giving Neymar any soft calls just because he got fouled a lot last game. If Neymar wants his opponent to get a foul or a yellow, he's going to need to earn it, he doesn't just get it for being Neymar.

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  10. Very funny how Kuipers dismiss Neymar's complaints haha

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    1. Neymar was waiting for complaining at half time. No reaction by Kuipers as « you can speak and speak baby » ^^

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    2. Reminds me of the UCL QF Barcelona v Juventus in 2017 :D

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  11. so far so good. better than yesterday, but lets see what happens when this ref gets challenged.

    will he wilt under the pressure of stars, or will he do his job, not much pressure yet. easy match so far.

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  12. Steve Smith, now that's enough. After your last message against RayHD, I will delete all your post as soon as I will read them.
    I'm really sorry, you had many chances, you want to be there only to disturb other people. I will not allow that.

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  13. Unnecessary and rough challenge by Neymar on Navas. Replays kinda blocked me from seeing what happened afterwards, but this had to be a very strict warning at least.

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  14. IMO Neymar should get YC in 48' after deliberately fouled GK.

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    1. For a reckless challenge. No intent to play the ball or chance to play the ball. Unnecessary.

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    2. For rough foul after Navas got the ball in his hands. Unnecessary.

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  15. That's what I call refereeing. Smiling if he can, but strict if he has to, also in the shadow if he should, great leadership and management in a normal game. Pleasure to watch Kuipers!

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  16. So far, very good Kuipers. Considering also his first game, at moment among the candidates for the final he is walking on a safe street... but yes, let's wait. It is too early!

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    1. To many Europen teams will reach KO stage... minimum one of them will be finalist IMO.
      That's the biggest problem

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  17. OT:
    Would most you say that red kits and yellow kits contrast enough to be worn by teams?

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    1. IMO yes, I was surprised to not see that today.
      Maybe FIFA has an agreement with the kit suppliers, that every away kit has to be worn at least once?

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    2. FIFA's reasoning was that the colors Red and Yellow didn't contrast enough. Definitely a head scratching decision by FIFA. And yeah, it could possibly be just what you said.

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    3. I'm also wondering why they don't play in yellow and blue. The only thing I can imagine is that both BRA and CRC would have blue shorts. And Brazil wears white socks to their yellow outfit and CRC has the same. I think that these kits today are chosen by FIFA.

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    4. Sorry, I meant yellow and red of course :)

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    5. The blue shorts are a point, yes. But then CRC could have worn red/white/red.
      That worked fine with Switzerland on MD1...

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    6. Costa Rica culd have worn Red tops, white shorts, and red sock. Brasil in their traditional Yellow tops, Blue shorts, and White socks. But forcing two teams to wear their away kits kinda sucks.

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  18. I like that he doesn’t let Neymar talk at him but there is a point where the yellow must come. Neymar shows no respect. Send a message with a yellow card and teach him.

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    1. I like the dissent action with his hand - see that in rugby but don't see enough of it from football referees to make a clear signal to everyone.

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    2. The trend seems to be no cautions for dissent or simulation. Or at least I haven't seen one given for either of those things yet. And we've seem some pretty blatant dives and some serious dissent towards referee's throughout the tournament so far.

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    3. Yes but I think the gesture ”go away” was a bit too much. I like the ”stop it” and ”no more” gesture instead.

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    4. Only big names in the world of refereeing can afford something like that

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    5. Much like I disliked the manner in which Cunha finger waved and belittled Iranian players. I'm not a fan of shooing away players either. But to each their own as long as the end result is achieved. However there must be a limit to how much dissent we accept.

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  19. Now a very intense warning to Neymar and his childish behaviour. Kuipers makes clear who is the boss. Compliment!

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  20. The warning against Neymar is IMO one of the best scences of the WC so far. Kuipers shows why he is one of the best referees of the world and even worldstars with heavy narciissistic behavior can't with him.

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  21. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. https://www.amazon.de/dp/B002U1514M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_tNplBbVGFCAPN

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    2. It’s ”silver” and was a special made edition for the 2014 WC refs. I also want to know where you can get it.

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    3. Tom you link is the regular Valkeen.

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  22. Sorry this looked to be almost a simulation by Neymar...

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  23. Kuipers goes to watch, this should mean very likely that he will annul the penalty decision.

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  24. No penalty, you will see that decision will be changed

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  25. Huge simulation. Thank you VAR!

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  26. Shouldn't he caution Neymar for simulation though?

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    1. IMO no, there was a contact

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    2. Still huge simulation. Yellow needed.

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    3. I agree, just saw the replay

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    4. There was clearly no foul - "clearly", because it was obvious enough for Kuipers to change his decision after VAR review. Yet, Neymar raises his arms, screams, and lets himself collapse on the ground. That, to me, suggests an 'intent to deceive the referee' by exaggerating a light contact. Ergo, YC.

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  27. However, the fact that player can't be booked makes me nervous.

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  28. Why no IFK + YC for simulation?

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    1. That's the restart that makes the most sense to me. It's the procedure when a referee blows for simulation.

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  29. no card? whats wrong with these referees. they are setting making youth soccer 100 times worse to ref this lack of courage.

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  30. Perfect double YC for dissent

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  31. Bravo for VAR! I know it is not by the rules, but I would give RC to Neymar for everything he was doing, for disgusting acting all the time. It had to be YC for simulation.

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  32. Finally, he got his YC ;) Totally deserved.

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    1. 2 payers carded in the same minute Neymar and Coutinho.

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  33. Kuipers is so brave referee.

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  34. Neymar in a "normal" game would have been already sent off for his repeated behavior and the simulation, but OK, given that we can't blame Kyipers for that, but only Busacca and the committee, the Dutch is performing very good there.

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  35. Wow, finally Neymar has been booked! Great

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  36. After he blew for the supposed penalty. Kuipers made a lower leg contact gesture to the Costa Rican players to justify his call. However there was never any sort of contact in the lower body region. So why make something up that never actually happened? An action like this could very possibly persuade the VAR to not intervene. Fortunately for Kuipers the VAR did intervene and bailed him out.

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    1. I rather think, that convinced the VAR to intervene, because he knew, that Kuipers saw something definitely wrong.

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  37. He is def. candidate for half-final or final. I was not always convinced but today he is near too perfection.

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  38. Correct YC for time wasting

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  39. It would have been a very soft penalty. Correct decision to cancel it, but also correct no YC - there was some contact.

    Excellent double YC for dissent and now for time wasting. Bravo Kuipers, bravo Makkelie!

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    1. "Exaggerating a light contact" is grounds for caution for simulation if it is done to deceive the referee - which is the case, IMO.

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    2. To be honest, the presence of a small contact shouldn't exclude at all the chance of a simulation, but in regard to a YC to be issued for that, indeed I must admit you are right.

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    3. I do agree with both of you, but I think in this context, it is the right decision - and the less "problematic" one if you want.

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  40. Marcelo deliberately striking the opponent in the head

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  41. New tactical trend in Russia:
    S.th. between Berlin wall and Catenaccio against favourites. I am sad that is so often successfull here.

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    1. Not just against the favourites. Uruguay, Portugal, France do the same.

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    2. And finally the deserved goal. Well.

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  42. 87' Neymar to Kuipers: "Do not touch me, do not touch me!"

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  43. Well done Kuipers, well done VAR.

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  44. Now Neymar totaly deserved second YC for elbow in the neck, and Marcelo at least YC for hand on the face. Kuipers had to see that. After that Neymar sad ...da puta just in front of Kuipers and he didn't react. Big mistake IMO.

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  45. A good game by Kuipers, but IMHO Marcelo shouldn't be on the pitch anymore, and who knows if BRA score with 10 men...

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    1. Had Marcelo gotten the red the goal wouldn’t have happened. They would have changed positions and all that. Any change in a presence changes the future.

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  46. After the goal scored, gme was stopped for about 2 minutes.
    Can we expect a final whistle at 98:00?

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  47. Why he waited for 97'???

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    1. Nothing happened in injury time

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    2. The goal, two minutes game was stopped, read above.

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    3. Just realised when the goal was scored.

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    4. There was also substitution in injury time

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    5. There was also a substitution. So totally justified to play more.

      Huge praise to Kuipers as he controlled this game perfectly, lots of good managing that perfectly set up YCs both for Neymar (dissent) and Costa Rica (time-wasting)in the end. About the penalty, my first take was also penalty, but replays showed exaggeration and Im sure nobody wants that this game would have been decided by this soft penalty, but still a brave decision to change his original decision.

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  48. what is going on? think these refs have been instructed to let the players control the match, then try to reign it in last 15?

    not impressed with refs last 2 games. call sorting has been good, but card sorting has left alot to be desired.

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    1. Ok, I understand, you are new, FIFA GAVE THE GUIDELINES TO THE REFEREES.
      All the best :)

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  49. Fantastic match by Kuipers, he showed to be one of the top favorites to ref the final. Only missed a YC for Marcelo (IMO red would have been too much). Well done by Makkelie too!

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    1. Wrong PK is not fantastic match.

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    2. If you have seen the match, you can't say it wasn't a fantastic match. Any other referee would have lost control of this match.

      After replays from 3 different angles in slow-motion we can see it was a wrong PK. Try to take such a decision at full speed, it's almost impossible. That's why they use VAR.

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    3. No any other ref wouldn’t have lost control at all. There are plenty of great refs in the world cup.

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    4. Why to lost control? It wasn't challenging match.
      Wrong PK is big mistake because, as it was said above, Kuipers "saw" something which didn't happen at all (leg contact gesture). And he let Brazilians cursing a lot (just see when Neymar said to Costarican hijo da puta just in front Kuipers) and doing whatever they want. They were diving and falling down all the time.

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    5. Teo, that exact gesture is what has me bewildered in reference to what Kuipers supposedly saw. He was going to literally "invent" something to give the PK. That's not okay. Had he gestured with his arms. Then yeah, okay, I can accept that even though it was soft. But to suggest that there was some sort of lower leg contact. Is unacceptable. Other than this, his style isn;t my cup of tea. But it works for him. Rather see this type of performance in place of "others" that we've seen.

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  50. Good Kuipers most of the time, but... Wrong PK, missed surely second YC for Neymar in several occasions (and he scored at the end) ant totally missed Marcelo' hand in the face. All that misses lead to Brasil's goal, so IMO his decisions influenced the final result. That's so true.

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  51. On such a normal match Kuipers had 2 crucial mistakes. Neymar should have gotten a 2nd YC and the penalty was corrected only by VAR.

    I don't think that he deserves to stay after R16.

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    1. Are you kiddin me?
      That's why we have VAR, so QF or Semi for the Dutch.

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    2. So the referee is free to award any penalty (even a completely wrong one) but it's all good since it will be corrected by VAR?

      Tragic.

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    3. That's why VAR exists, and how referee performances are evaluated on WC

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    4. In this regard I would like to ask you how do you think this performance is going to be assessed @DrMr?? I mean the only error seems to be the penalty situation and the remaining performance has been impressive! I don't think there are minor mistakes either other than it so on an overall picture and with VAR present, what do you think will be the assessment of this performance?? I'm really curious to know!

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  52. I admit it, that's Bundesliga I have in my head, but hand to the face is RC it's what I've been told. Why no VAR intervention?

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    1. Well no, if the hand to the face is not deliberate or the force is negligible then the LOTG says it's not violent conduct. Only saw one replay but I think Marcelo was trying to catch the ball?

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    2. I didn't see many replays but from the one I did see, Marcelo wasn't facing the player, so it's not clearly and obviously deliberate. No VAR intervention was correct. The call itself? I would like to see more angles.

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    3. Ah, thank you. Only saw one replay of it and it did look like a slap.

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    4. On the replay it’s clear it was deliberate and then Marcelo pretended like nothing happened.

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    5. In MLS, VAR would have intervened 100% and it would have resulted in a sending off. Zero tolerance for hands to the face/neck in MLS. And I can't say that I disagree with that stance. PLayers hands have no business on, near or around an opponents face.

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  53. I am sorry, but i have to say it, IMO Irmatov left much better impression on me last night than Kuipers today

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    1. Filip, agreed but watch out. The fools might delete your comment. Because here you can't say anything against Kuipers, Brych. But fortunately no one takes them seriously :)

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    2. For me, Kuipers was much better in much easier match (it has to be said that the match was easier), but he allowed too match for the Brazilians, especially Neymar. It influenced the outcome, and that's really important.

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    3. @DrMr, You can see in Irmatov discussion my post where i explained my view of his performance, there is to much to say to repeat it here. But overall, my impression is that Kuipers today had easier match than Irmatov, but he dealt with it with less authority than Irmatov did yesterday. Plus, i really dont understand how he could of whistled that penalty giving that he was well positioned. Good reaction after OFR, but still, without VAR probably his WC would have been finished today

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    4. Lets agree that we disagree. IMO today we saw what authority means.

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  54. What an excellent performance by Kuipers. Strong player management, superb body language, great match control. This is why I can overlook the penalty incident. I‘m sure he will thank Makkelie for preventing him from a crucial mistake, it would have been very sad if this mistake wasn‘t corrected.
    I think we can expect Kuipers being appointed for a quarterfinal and - in case of a good/expected performance - for the final. In my view, noone has better chances to be the man in the middle...

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  55. I have a question. Kuipers was amazing. No doubt about that but he gave a wrong PK. Does this affect his future appointments considering that without VAR this would have been a crucial mistake? So again, he was great but I'm still wondering if he is ahead of the others for the final. I would say not because he made a mistake and thank god VAR changed it. I would love to see him in the final but I'm not so sure because of that VAR incident.

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    1. I’m also not sure, but when you consider Rizolli in WC 2014 during Spain - The Netherlands, everything is possible

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  56. 1-striking to the face has no verbal warnings, automatic RC

    2-simulation will happen once with a verbal warning, second time on will be a YC.

    3-waisting time by kicking that ball away will be a YC, not multiple verbal warnings and hand gestures.

    4-yelling at the referee(dissent) will be a YC or making physical contact with a referee will be automatic RC.

    4-tactical hard fouls that injures or endangers the safety of the player will be a YC, not just hand gestures for 90 mins.

    Outside of that I think the refs are doing OK.

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  57. OT: German sports paper Kicker praised the leniency of referees in this tournament, mentioning Shukralla, Faghani and Marciniak specifically, also Irmatov yesterday. Can't say I agree with it fully.

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  58. So the mark will be around 7.9 (8.4)??

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  59. I've never seen such praise for a referee after a game. On twitter many, many experts claim Kuipers for the final after his performance today. To be honest, I cannot disagree... Great performance from a great referee!

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    1. But the penalty situation is there... I'm his big fan but I think that situation will be a hindrance for him maybe in case others have a faultless performance? But yes what we saw with Rizzoli in 2014, anything is possible when at times maybe they focus only on bigger picture... Difficult to predict!

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  60. I think that Kuipers and Mazic will be main UEFA candidates for semifinals or final game.

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  61. My question to DrMr : Was this a 100% clear and obvious mistake for the VAR intervention?? Would any VAR intervene here or was the intervention because Kuipers indicated he saw something which wasn't right?? This is just a query regarding the protocol... Of course I think that was too soft a penalty and Kuipers was absolutely correct to change the call on review! What this mainly shows is that referees can see things during play but still get a much better perception on watching the replay and choose to reverse the call! So who knows maybe Rocchi, Ramos and Marciniak would also change their calls on watching replays from various angles?? Indeed worth discussion because I don't think it was 100% obvious mistake today in the strictest criteria that VARs have applied but definitely one can say too soft for a penalty!

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    1. It's not 100% mistake IMO (if I can measure it, it would be 95% :))
      But as you said, Kuipers indicated he saw something which wasn't right (foul by leg) so that influenced VAR's decision to intervene.

      Also, even withoud Kuipers indication (bad perception of leg foul), VAR should intervene.

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    2. Basically Danny Makkelie deserves immense credit for a sensible VAR intervention that is good for the game... And also Kuipers deserves credit for having the courage to overturn his decision for the good of the game even though he could hide behind the fact it wasn't a 100% clear and obvious error and this could've stuck with his decision... So excellent VAR management there and the Makkelie - Kuipers pairing must have earned some important credits today... As mentioned everything else was managed superbly with full authority and control!! Now to the other VAR- referee pairings to learn from this and act sensibly (which Zwayer obviously didn't later in the day) to ensure absolute fairness in the game!

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  62. My opinion about Kuipers performance: in terms of players management he has been excellent throughout the whole game. Despite of not having issued cards until a certain moment, he has been always in full control. We know that FIFA doesn't want easy cards for protests and simulation, so for this reason we can't blame Kuipers as well. Definitely not his fault there.
    If I compare his performance with the one by Irmatov yesterday, I must say that the Dutch has been top class. However, of course there is a clear difference and it would be maybe unfair to make a direct comparison without mentioning that: players yesterday in Irmatov's game were more and more frustrated from the beginning, already by themselves. Today, it was different, however, I got the impression that if the game didn't turn into something like Argentina - Croatia, it was thank to the strong figure of the referee.
    Now, the big question is about the penalty call: can this affect the chances of Kuipers to officiate WC final? Definitely not, in my opinion. Answers is negative. The Dutch will indeed keep the same chances as before. He is a referee with a too big ecperience, to be ruled out just because he whistled that penalty. It was clearly a perception mistake and the cooperation among the Dutch crew - Danny Makkelie behind the monitor - was indeed excellent.
    Today we have refereeing 2.0, as I already stated a few time ago: referees will make still mistakes, of course, but VAR is there for them. Also a correct use of VAR must be considered as positive aspect. Kuipers was not hesitant in calling the penalty, like a referee without technology and then he had the "courage" to return back: that's not trivial, if you ask me, and it must be underlined. It is sure he will appear again in KO stages and next games will talk again in a sense or another one.
    The only thing I feel to say is that in case of a candidate for the final, without such a mistake on the pitch, maybe this one could be considered ahead of the Dutch, that would be of course fair under a certain aspect, but it would be definitely a pity to stop Kuipers just because of this penalty. That's my opinion.
    Next days and next assignments + next performances will talk more.
    So far, if Kuipers had avoided this penalty call, it would have been fantastic, but of course you can't have everything.
    Also, the penalty is really soft and for all the people and fans definitely wrong, but if we look into detail, it is far away from a 100% crucial mistake, there is a small contact and then a simulation.

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    1. Another thing which may emerge out of this is the Kuipers - Makkelie pairing which worked with excellent cooperation and you can trust that combination in a big KO match to ensure smooth operation between main referee and VAR... I can also think referees sticking with their call and showing the contact it's easily justifiable in the debrief also so indeed very courageous and good call to reverse it as it was very soft... With the presence of VAR crucial mistakes are becoming less crucial as with VAR inputs it will be fixed... So question arises that what would be more preferable - A referee with overall excellent management and performance with one VAR corrected decision or a referee with overall haphazard and substandard management but no crucial mistake needing VAR intervention... The answer to this question would answer questions about Kuipers' future appointments!

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    2. I would like to ask you how do you think this performance is going to be assessed @DrMr?? I mean the only error seems to be the penalty situation and the remaining performance has been impressive! I don't think there are minor mistakes either other than it, so on an overall picture and with VAR present, what do you think will be the assessment of this performance in the WC?? I'm really curious to know!

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