Friday, 15 June 2018

2018 FIFA World Cup Match 3: Portugal - Spain (discussion #2)

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Match #3
Sochi, 15 June 2018 20:00 CET
Portugal - Spain
Referee: Gianluca Rocchi (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Elenito Di Liberatore (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Mauro Tonolini (ITA)
Fourth Official: Ryūji Satō (JPN)
Fifth Official: Toru Sagara (JPN)
VAR: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
AVAR1: Paolo Valeri (ITA)
AVAR 2: Carlos Astroza (CHI)
AVAR 3: Daniele Orsato (ITA)

66 comments:

  1. My answer to Chefren from previous thread : The Rizzoli part is well known to almost everyone by now... Rocchi's palmares are there for all to see, good but not anything extraordinary! And Argentina not asking for him was a speculation just :D

    One question to all : Did Rizzoli's performance generate a lot of medial attention? Might be possible that there were no major publicity of the performance and also maybe the VC and missed foul were judged as supportable... The report seems to suggest that Rizzoli wasn't overall shaky or struggling... So that's something a bit different from Rocchi today!!

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  2. As an OT

    If anyone wants to find any material from The Third Team, then I would recommend going into web.archive.org to find it.

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  3. It will be interesting to know the next appointments of Irrati as VAR. For tomorrow, Orsato has been appointed as main VAR in Ricci's game.

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  4. I see that you don't talk very much about an yellow card for a persistent holding (shirt-pulling ?) on Isco. I can't remember what minute it was but for sure was in 2nd half (about 60'). The portugese player was Moutinho or Bernardo Silva.
    For me it was blatant yellow card. Isco escaped in 1st instance but immediatly he suffered another foul. Rocchi didn't come back with a yellow card for that very ugly (and cynical) holding.

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    Replies
    1. Yes, I commented exactly that to the people I was watching the match with. A clear advantage seemed to be available, but then that allowed defenders to arrive and foul him again. So I agree that the advantage should have not taken place and a YC should have been issued.

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  5. I think we have seen 3 good performances today. I think that the elbow before Spain's equalizer was rather a foul, but one falling into the category 'changing the decision upon VAR review is the better alternative, but not mandatory'. In my opinion, nothing where you must intervene mandatorily, and nothing big enough for the 1st VAR intervention in WC history.

    Apart from that, Kuipers, Cakir and Rocchi felt their games and made a very prepared impression. Well done!

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  6. The thing I find strange about VAR and Costa's first goal is that this has happened with one of the most experienced teams with VAR. It is hardly understandable, TBH. If FIFA is OK with the decision not to perform an OFR, then maybe they should amend the protocol because it is not useful. Instead of being a clear black and white mistake, maybe it should be whenever there are reasonable reasons to think the referee could have missed something.

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    Replies
    1. Keep in mind that we (or VARs, rather) do not seek the best possible decision. They screen a decision taken on the field against the question whether it is a clear and obvious (!) mistake. And an integral part of this is the perception of the main referee. If the VAR can confirm what the VAR has perceived, there is no reason for an intervention - because the referee has not missed it. Pepe held his head at a point where he was not hit at all. If Rocchi told Irrati that he had seen a contact between arm and facial area / upper body, but for him it is not enough, then Irrati had no reason to intervene.


      You can say Rocchi could have looked himself on the monitor, maybe this would be more acceptable here. But we are far away from a clear VAR mistake, scandal or whatever.

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    4. @refinho154, funny exculpatory reasoning. "VARs do not seek the best possible decision?" Sorry?? What a joke. So, what is VAR for after all?? You're basically implying that the VAR team should wonder whether they themselves would miss a given incident on the field. According to your logic, VARs should get into the main ref's head and make out if they would also take that very same decision, even if the review shows the ref on the pitch committed a horrible blunder. Thing is the perception of the main referee only matters when there's room for doubt. Diego Costa-Pepe incident leaves no room for doubt whatsoever. It's an obvious obstruction. Maybe you're not in on this, but in football one can't throw one's arm/forearm into an opponent's chin/face. It's against the rules.

      "Pepe held his head at a point where he was not hit at all. If Rocchi told Irrati that he had seen a contact between arm and facial area / upper body, but for him it is not enough, then Irrati had no reason to intervene." Seriously?? Right, if a ref on the pitch says to VAR he saw a contact between two players, it didn't look like anything rough at first sight and the official reviews end up showing it is a more than punishable incident, VAR's thinking should be: "Ok, in spite of what I have in front of my eyes, I have to be complacent because this is a difficult situation to assess and perhaps I would miss it too". Can't you understand VAR's core purpose is to right wrongs and avoid unnecessary controversy? Yes, VARs seek and must seek the best possible decisions. That is the reason for their existence.

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    5. "Pepe held his head at a point where he was not hit at all. If Rocchi told Irrati that he had seen a contact between arm and facial area / upper body, but for him it is not enough, then Irrati had no reason to intervene." – I asked a FIFA instructor about this statement and he told me this is complete bonkers and no such protocol or directive exists... A VAR can intervene at any point he wants irrespective of what the main referee has seen or perceived!

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  7. I agree with refinho. I also do not think that Rocchi had the best game, especially when it comes to cards. But i have to say, In my opinion there were no crucial mistakes.

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  8. VIDEOS

    03' - penalty
    https://streamable.com/zfh7c

    17' - YC Busquets (reckless tackle)
    https://streamable.com/uqnim

    24' - goal vs foul
    https://streamable.com/q5c81

    26' - GLT, offside vs handball
    https://streamable.com/sw4k1

    28' - YC Bruno Fernandes (SPA)
    https://streamable.com/ig2pr

    41' - missed YC for reckless stamp
    https://streamable.com/uu56q

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    Replies
    1. 60' - missed YC for dissent
      https://streamable.com/2qdhd

      62' - holding, advantage
      https://streamable.com/2guvi

      79' - body language
      https://streamable.com/5rnkn

      84' - time wasting
      https://streamable.com/byiu3

      86' - free kick leading to 3-3 goal
      https://streamable.com/lx1t1

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    2. The link to the Bruno Fernandes YC doesn't work

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    3. 28' - YC Bruno Fernandes (SPA)
      https://streamable.com/r5jhx

      Delete
  9. Not a big point but nobody mentioned it before: Di Liberatore's flag technique was awful! He confused the players twice about throwins, and I think at one moment even confused Rocchi a bit.

    Obviously this is no new point, but I could feel RateTheRef forum ready to explode :-). Even in Germany I think it would be looked down on.

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    Replies
    1. Yes. Serie A refs have a completely random flag technique and forget more people than the head ref need to know who should get the ball.

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