Sunday, 13 June 2021

UEFA EURO 2020 Match 5: Netherlands - Ukraine (discussion)

Felix Brych in charge of Netherlands - Ukraine. Discussion about his perfomance. 


Group C
Amsterdam, 13 June 2021 21:00 CET
NETHERLANDS - UKRAINE
Referee: Felix Brych (GER)
Assistant Referee 1: Mark Borsch (GER)
Assistant Referee 2: Stefan Lupp (GER)
Fourth Official: Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
Fifth Official: Marcin Boniek (POL)
Video Assistant Referee: Marco Fritz (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee 1: Christian Dingert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee 2: Lee Betts (ENG)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee 3: Stuart Attwell (ENG)
UEFA Referee Observer: Vítor Manuel Melo Pereira (POR)
UEFA Delegate: Milovan Đukanović (MNE)

72 comments:

  1. Hey, the silver-grey kit looks so cool!

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  2. No penalty for a handball. I think with the old rules, it'd have been one.

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    1. I think Brych is right not to award a penalty here, based on LOTG. No hand movement towards the ball, natural position of the arm.

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    2. Oh, I agree with that.

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  3. 5’ min pen appeal by NL. Correct play on. Natural position and short distance.

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    1. Distance isn't one of the considerations any more -- hasn't been since the release of the 2019-20 FIFA considerations.

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  4. Correct for me to play on in 6'. Arm was in a natural position, no penalty.

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  5. Good decision by Brych not to award a penalty for handball situation, even when the arm wasn’t close to the body after a long distance shot. I really like the handball approach of the EURO referees. Until tonight they keep the line that has been set from the beginning.

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    1. Good decision: the arm was very near the body.
      By the way on the defensive side there is virtually no new rule. As IFAB itself said, the 21/22 version just simplify and clarify the old rule to achieve a more consistent use.
      Please do not believe me and do not blindly believe journalists simply visit the IFAB website and verify by yourself.
      If you have the time i also suggest you to spend 10 additional minutes to read the complete OFFICIAL presentation of the new rules and to see the video examples. You could be surprised....

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    2. Thanks for the hint regarding the IFAB homepage.
      Here is the link: https://www.theifab.com/law-changes/latest/
      At the bottom of the page a PDF with videos can be found.

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    3. @ Philipp S - You're wellcome. Actually i'm very annoyed with the continue misinformation about the LOTG,largely on the handball rule.
      This is a technical blog so we should use it for our own tecnical grow not and as a platform to spread gossip and prejudices!
      An appaling example, reading the TUR ITA threads i expected to see a discussion on how Makkelie mishandled VAR on Celik's handball and not a flood of praises for a supposed rule... It's a pity because i saw different potential interesting topics to discuss, maybe a little too phylosophycal but interesting nonetheless.
      Thank you very much

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    4. “This is a technical blog so we should use it for our own tecnical grow not and as a platform to spread gossip and prejudices!”

      A pity you use phrases like “expected to see a discussion on how Makkelie mishandled VAR…”. That betrays you’re agenda is more personal after all than the paragraph I quoted on top suggests.

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    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    6. I think you misjudged my prhase...
      To be clear personally i think it was a penalty but this is only my opinion.
      I know that british referees use sparingly on field review on the other hand you should know that in almost all the other federation (and in the IFAB protocol) t's not the same.
      Back on topic I think Makkelie mishandled the situation because:
      - he was in the correct position and near the action but he was, unfortunatly, directly behind Celik so he couldn't have a clear prospective,
      - IFAB clearly states that judjing if the posture of a player is "unnaturalkly bigger" is a SUBJECTIVE decision of the referee
      - VAR officials shouldn't change a subjective decision of the referee
      So yes i think that Makkelie should have done an OFR.
      Seeing IFAB's video examples on handball it wasn't such a clear cut decision, so i think Makkelie set a bad precedent...
      Now we can jump to more phylosophycal discussion on what makes a good and fair rule.
      One serious prerequisite is that a rule must be consistently and equally enforceable.
      We should remember that the defensive handball rules, as actually written, made no provision for distance from the ball and for the its speed relative to the player.
      Now please imagine a player acting like Celik but a good ten meters from the ball.
      Now imagine a normal cross that usually travels at about 50kmh i.e. near 14 meters every second.
      Are you really really sure that Makkelie set such a good precedent not even reviewing the video?
      I don't think that Makkelie interpretation is consistent enforceable, that makes a bad precedent.
      Please let's forget TUR ITA and let's forget Makkelie, in the end they are immaterial, the focus should be on the fair and consistent application in all the future match.
      That's the question you and all of us should ask.
      My hope and my hidden agendas is to stimulate more tecnical discussion and not flames.

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    7. But if it isn't a clear decision, VAR surely shouldn't intervene. As you write, it is a subjective decision by the referee. He has taken it, so VAR must accept it.

      IMO, the important point is, that previously this was a pretty clear penalty - due to the interpretation of the Law, which has been followed during the last seasons.
      With the new LotG, IFAB explicitly didn't want that black-and-white thinking for such situations anymore, but wants the referee to assess the intention and the "naturalness" of the arm position more freely. I.e. more room for the referee to decide subjectively was desired.
      IMO, this makes it more difficult to get a uniform approach among all referees, but we will see how that develops. Maybe UEFA manages to get uniformity during the EURO by doing a lot of video training wit their referees.

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    8. I can only make an educated guess because the TV footage i saw isn't conclusive.

      I must state that i'm not an active referee (that was soo long in past), i just read about everything made available to the genaral public by IFAB and various federation.
      As usual i strongly advise you to not rely on what i said or what mass media said but to carefully view all the videos and the briefings to form your independent opinion.


      You are absolutely right an handball can never be a clear and evident error only a serious missed incident.

      According to the protocol VAR or AVAR should only said something like "There was an handball (we review and it COULD be a penalty), did you clearly see it?" and the bracketed part is stretching the rules.
      We should remember that handball is one of the "SUBJECTIVE decision of the referee", VAR should only VERIFY that the referee actually saw it, VAR can not suggest a review and can not judge it.
      The referee has just two choice "Yes I clearly saw it" or "No I did not saw it(clerly enough). Let's open an official review".

      There really was a review?
      After an official review the referee must make the "TV sign" immediatly before restarting the game.
      I didn't see it but, on the other hand, Makkelie could have done it a few seconds before, while we were seeing the last replay.
      If it was an official review it was not conduct in the proper way.

      While factual decision (es. offside) could be made directly by VAR for subjective decisions, like handball, IFAB deems appropriate On Field Review.
      Actually, although strictly not reccomended, the referee could eschew OFR relyimg on the VAR explanations but only in extremely clear circustamces.
      (I know English referee often eschew OFR but it's just a local custom not the rule)

      Assuming it was an OR, Makkeile mishandled the situation. While I assume that for various reasons referees were suggested to use few OFR, this was not the right time.

      Why?

      1. Position of the referee: Makkelie, while near the action, was directly behind Celik so he couldn't see clearly enough the arm stretched forward
      2. Clarity: after a few days there isn't a real international consensus even between referees.
      3. Opportunity: it was the first real application of the slighty revised rule in front of hundreds of million of fans.

      Just a note: there is a proper way to signal to continue the game, to gesticulate is not (but maybe I'm just too old))

      While I consider the outcome irrelevant, we can also discuss why i think it was a penalty and why i think that endorsing Mikkelie without rewriting the law in untenable.

      Thank you for reading my rants and for a constructive discussion.

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    9. Well i made an extremely long post saying actually few things, to summarize

      - VAR cannot unilateraly initiate a review, only the referee can open an official review
      - When dealing with a subjective decision (like an handball) VAR can only verify that the referee clearly saw the episode, so no clear error only missed episode
      - VAR should suggest a review for a clear error (factual episode)

      Entering the realm of speculation i suppose it was a "not so silent check" (with VAR subtly hinting that something questionable happened) with Makkelie rejecting the hint

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  6. Compliments for Rosetti to implement this new approach already now during this Euro and not wait to next season. Football will appreciate this, although it takes some time to get peoples mindset changed.

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  7. Oh my God! Brych touched the ball! Poor performance, dismiss him! Oh, wait, it’s not Orsato ;)

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    1. A just as pathetic and empty comment as the ones against Orsato this afternoon.

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    2. And again a wrong interpretation of the law after referee touch the ball. Same like with Orsato. The correct decision would be PLAY ON! Referee didn’t create a promising attack, he destroys it! So far only in Italy Turkey the correct interpretation by playing advantage.

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    3. that's false. Here is the rule: "If the ball touches the referee or another match official and goes into the goal, or results in a change of possession or a promising attack, a dropped ball will be awarded." The contact resulted in a promising attack so a drop ball was correct. Doesn't matter that there was already an attack going on...

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    4. Pff.. this was already a promising attack before the touch.... the touch did not result in a promising attack. How difficult to understand for people here. So if the referee is in the middle of a promising attack you stop play because it continues a promising attack that was already a promising attack. Try to think the philosophy behind the rule.

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    5. Well that philosophical. In my view he certainly created a more promising attack.

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    6. Again, just like this afternoon, a common-sensibel decision to stop play.
      A correction on what pele23 writes though: the laws states that a dropped ball should be aaarded if the touch “starts a promising attack” instead of “results in a promising attack”. That is a significant difference in wording.

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    7. just checked. You're right. UEFA rule states "starts an attack". I was referring to Premier league where they use the wording I mentioned: https://www.premierleague.com/news/1292424

      My mistake.

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  8. Unfortunate interference with the game, simply "unlucky".

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  9. Anyone who knows what the electronic device is that Brych is wearing at his left hip?

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    1. I saw Mateu with the same device, I assume it's related to the goal line technology watch, as the watches wore by the officials change a few months ago. I don't see another explanation, referees are with the same communication kits and stuff.

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    2. In the Netherlands there is a football joke that says: “the people who became a referee just do that because at home they’re not allowed to decided anything.” So would this device be something for the wife of Brych to correct him when making a mistake :-)

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    3. I'm not sure that Brych has a wife.

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    4. Thanks for this information, he is very discreet about private life.

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    5. He told in a video-podcast, that he met his wife just a few years ago and he is married since 2019, if I remember correctly. So now I finish the trip to yellow press news.

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  10. VARs for tomorrow are now available:
    Siebert - Fritz
    Hategan - di Bello
    Vincic - Dankert

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  11. Good first half by Brych, he is letting the game flow, just whistling the clear fouls. Fair match so far.

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  12. So far, almost nothing to say about refereeing !
    In this 1H, except the (IMHO) correctly rejected penalty and the dropped ball procedure after being hit, nothing to analyse.
    Both teams are focused on playing football in the best game in terms of intensity for my taste. Very enjoyable match so far, and a quiet evening for team Brych.

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  13. To be checked this possible offside. In case he is in offside, clearly punishable.

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  14. Good no foul decision prior 2-0, normal duel. Very close decision in terms of offside, VAR checked everything. To be watched closely but if Stefan Lupp was right, it was an excellent decision.

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    1. Now calibrated lines showed it was indeed onside, very close. Excellent decision by Stefan Lupp.

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    2. How can you say 'normal duel' if the replay was not shown?

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  15. Surprise that it was not offside.

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  16. I think very close onside but replay wasn‘t very conclusive.

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  17. Incredibile ONSIDE by Lupp, now the frame was shown by UEFA.
    This is the best decision of the tournament so far for an assistant referee.

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  18. just shown the replay with the lines, very close but for sure onside

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  19. Confirmation it was on. Good calls from AR and Brych

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  20. Onside ! Bravo, Stefan Lupp ! :)

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  21. On a more critical note to the same AR2, a few moments before (55”15) he raised the flag without delay in a very dangerous attack of the Dutch (no replays shown), but after having replayed the scene strong doubts on the validity of the call (leaving VAR no chance to correct if necessary).

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    1. Well for this, I saw it manifest 2 times In the game involving England and Croatia, and the assistant referees where really strong headed in raising thier flags early like it was a new directive!! I feel after what happened with Christian Eriksen I feel they want to mimimize any potential dangerous injury that the last flag technique might bring..

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    2. I think this was for earlier when player can back from offside to collect the ball before starting the next attack - once that broke down, he flagged for that (not the next one which was still in progress) if that makes sense

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    3. I really doubt it, we just have to wait and see if so this is the new directives!!!

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  22. Brych should get a prize for calling a (correct) foul throw at a EURO tournament! :)

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    1. He would have earned that prize if he would have called the same in 39’ when the ball slipped out of Dumfries’ hands. Dumfries was allowed to have another attempt ;)

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    2. the Dumfries’ ball didn‘t enter the field ;)

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    3. At 39’, the ball did not go over his head - it wasn’t a throw (yet), whereas at 70’ it did.

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    4. Ah yes Emil, rewatched and I stand corrected :)

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  23. Very good Brych so far, very very good level of foul detection just like Orsato early today, they are not swayed by cheap falling on the floor!!!

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  24. I would like to ask becouse I do not remember, was it announced which trio will leave the tournament on Euro 2016, and will it be announced this year?

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  25. We must praise both teams, they are very fair and concentrate on playing football. So, Brych can let the game flow and allows the game to "develop". No need for any cards. Very nice to watch.

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  26. Brych for me with the performance of the tournament so far. If he continues like this at least a SF should follow IMO.

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  27. Very good performance in a fair and relatively easy match.

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  28. Superb to watch this game, good football, close match and very fair. Let me say that I am very relieved that Brych had a great start unlike in past. Indeed, no big challenges for him as everything was fair but I liked how he "allowed" the excellent football to be played. Top class onside decision by AR2 Lupp prior 2–0.

    We must be very, very satisfied with all the performances until now. Only a single VAR intervention and no OFR, not because of the intervention line but because of the good refereeing. No important mistake in seven matches – remarkable!

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    1. Totally agree Ref_1707. All seven matches with good performances with no clear mistakes and also not a single decision that had an influence on the result of the match.

      At the moment Brych in pole position for the final after an excellent performance tonight !!

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  29. Very good Brych, another masterclass. So far, excellent level in this Euro. Very few errors, the referees are at a high level. Very good work from Rosetti and his entire team, I hope we continue on this path.

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  30. Excellent performance in a great game.

    Confidently allowed game to flow, waved away players looking for soft fouls with consistency, all key decisions correct.

    Has real calm authority - players seem to accept his decisions. Clear communication with whistle and signals.

    Excellent fitness, sprinting to keep up with fast break aways.

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  31. Some more angles from the 28' play on call (potential penalty to Ukraine). Actually, the decision is more interesting than the television sequences suggested - but after a trifling-natured contact on his standing foot, the attacker falls of his own accord.

    I wonder if Brych had the same impression as I - that the defender had played the ball fairly. In any case correct for Brych to give the go on (and of course no intervention).

    https://streamable.com/62ve62

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  32. Finally a game that was at least a little bit fun to watch.

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  33. Side note: The new kits are really nice! They look athletic, strong in color, but not over the top. Well done.

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  34. HIGHLIGHTS

    https://we.tl/t-HvcuWlDlnQ

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